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IU QB Quandry

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Nihilist Rodgers

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May 29, 2001
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I actually like your coach... you guys would be stupid to fire him. I know the guy Nate beat out transferred and you lost a few other QB's.. but Sudfield and his backup are SO different.. the backup can't even come close to running your system. Are recruits on the way to fix the situation? It's a shame you had to scrap your game plan the minute Sudfeld got hurt.. it helped a bit in the tOSU game, as they had no idea what to expect and were a bit gassed, but it will really hurt your chances long term if Nate can't get back.. I feel even if he does get back he'll only be 60-70% the rest of the year.. as opponents will hit him and hit him often knowing he has a bad wheel.

It's almost a PSU situation, as you can't get an experienced backup in quick enough.-sg
 
IU fans and the team like the backup QB just fine. He doesn't have Nate's arm, but he can do things with his legs that Nate can't do. His arm is decent enough and he's a great competitor. Thanks for your concern but Indiana can beat Penn State with or without Nate.
 
Mr. Jim said:
IU fans and the team like the backup QB just fine. He doesn't have Nate's arm, but he can do things with his legs that Nate can't do. His arm is decent enough and he's a great competitor. Thanks for your concern but Indiana can beat Penn State with or without Nate.
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IU fans may like the backup (Zander) but many of us do wonder if he can beat teams like Penn State & Iowa. I think it will be a tough go myself.
 
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Mr. Jim said:
IU fans and the team like the backup QB just fine. He doesn't have Nate's arm, but he can do things with his legs that Nate can't do. His arm is decent enough and he's a great competitor. Thanks for your concern but Indiana can beat Penn State with or without Nate.
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I don't know.. he was probably the worst QB in the BIG last year.. Sud was up near the top. On top of that coaches have tape on the kid, they will take away what he likes to do (hit the edges with his feet and scramble) If I'm a DC I tell my kids to keep their rush lanes and make him beat you with his arm.. he can throw the ball but he is extremely inaccurate, and doesn't see the field very well. He looks completely lost shut in the pocket where Nate excels. We'll see.. we can always lose, but I think our chances of a win are 75% better if we don't have to face Nate. Even if Nate is out there, I can't see him being anywhere close to 100% Oh, and I don't miss Tevin Coleman.. an absolute beast.. the best since Anthony Thompson was toting the rock for IU.-sg
 
CKW says Zander has improved a lot so that must mean throwing the ball. Only time will tell. Remember Howard was hurt also in OSU game.
 
sg out west said:
how about your back up RB... any skill?.. we're missing both of ours...-sg
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Redding would have been #1 if Howard hadn't transferred in. He's good. Maybe not as good as Howard, but good enough for certain. And there's depth beneath him. IU is getting a group of nice backs all with upside. Imo
 
IUHDog said:
IU fans may like the backup (Zander) but many of us do wonder if he can beat teams like Penn State & Iowa. I think it will be a tough go myself.
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He won us the bucket. In my book, he's good enough for the task at hand.
 
sg out west said:
I don't know.. he was probably the worst QB in the BIG last year.. Sud was up near the top. On top of that coaches have tape on the kid, they will take away what he likes to do (hit the edges with his feet and scramble) If I'm a DC I tell my kids to keep their rush lanes and make him beat you with his arm.. he can throw the ball but he is extremely inaccurate, and doesn't see the field very well. He looks completely lost shut in the pocket where Nate excels. We'll see.. we can always lose, but I think our chances of a win are 75% better if we don't have to face Nate. Even if Nate is out there, I can't see him being anywhere close to 100% Oh, and I don't miss Tevin Coleman.. an absolute beast.. the best since Anthony Thompson was toting the rock for IU.-sg
Click to expand...

He was not the worst QB in the league last year, nor would he be this year.
 
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Courtsensetwo said:
He was not the worst QB in the league last year, nor would he be this year.
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He was not good. The stats weren't particularly forgiving towards Zander -- we were a bottom 20 offense despite having the best running back in Football last year.
 
sg out west said:
I actually like your coach... you guys would be stupid to fire him. I know the guy Nate beat out transferred and you lost a few other QB's.. but Sudfield and his backup are SO different.. the backup can't even come close to running your system. Are recruits on the way to fix the situation? It's a shame you had to scrap your game plan the minute Sudfeld got hurt.. it helped a bit in the tOSU game, as they had no idea what to expect and were a bit gassed, but it will really hurt your chances long term if Nate can't get back.. I feel even if he does get back he'll only be 60-70% the rest of the year.. as opponents will hit him and hit him often knowing he has a bad wheel.

It's almost a PSU situation, as you can't get an experienced backup in quick enough.-sg
Click to expand...
I really don't know who you are or what fanbase you're from, but you don't know our situation as well as we do. "Stupid to fire him" really isn't your call, and I doubt you know our system all that well from your post.
 
Oxford Collapse said:
I really don't know who you are or what fanbase you're from, but you don't know our situation as well as we do. "Stupid to fire him" really isn't your call, and I doubt you know our system all that well from your post.
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I'm moderately familiar with IU... it was tough that you lost your coach (Coach Hep?) was probably the best you had in a long time. I do know that IU has had some explosive play makers in the past 3-4 years. What tends to stick out most is that you guys are usually right-handed (talented offense and really lacking on D) I recall watching games last year when your DE's seemed MIA every game that I tuned in to watch for a while. When you guys are at your best it's like watching basketball on grass (I recall that tOSU game when I there were 100+ points scored between you guys). It will be tough to ever rise to the top, you are in a state without much talent that happens to have Notre Dame in it... that being said you seem to be located in a better area than Iowa, Nebraska, or Minnesota. I just don't see what rolling a whole nother regime in would do for Indiana football, consitency is probably the best chance you have at long-term success.. think Glenn Mason at UMinn.-sg
 
sg out west said:
who was worse??.. he was at 3.9 ypa, 4 int's with 1 TD.. he basically handed off to Coleman every other play? IU cut the playbook by 75%?

Who would he better than this year.. possibly the Maryland cluster.. possibly the Minnesota kid?

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/3128254/zander-diamont
Click to expand...

Calling Zander the worse QB in the league last year is not really fair considering the circumstances. He was projected to be our 5th string QB before two transfers then the two QBs ahead of him both getting hurt. There was no - nada - plan of playing Zander last year before all those events unfolded, and he basically came in as our emergency QB was what it amounted to. How did PSU's 5th string QB stack up against the starters in the league last year?
 
I can't recall ever watching a major college team that had a qb with a weaker arm. Diamont does have speed but you have to be able to throw the deep ball to keep the defense honest. If Sudfeld is not healthy I think a bowl game is a real long shot. This is no different than what I thought at the beginning of the year. If Sudfeld is not healthy I would sit him against Penn State and hope that the defense can bail the Hoosiers out.
 
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82hoosier said:
I can't recall ever watching a major college team that had a qb with a weaker arm. Diamont does have speed but you have to be able to throw the deep ball to keep the defense honest. If Sudfeld is not healthy I think a bowl game is a real long shot. This is no different than what I thought at the beginning of the year. If Sudfeld is not healthy I would sit him against Penn State and hope that the defense can bail the Hoosiers out.
Click to expand...

Did you watch the Ohio State game? He has made huge improvements in the passing game. I don't knoiw how he will be if he has to start, but he is 100% better than last year. To say less is just plain ignorant.
 
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sg out west said:
I actually like your coach... you guys would be stupid to fire him. I know the guy Nate beat out transferred and you lost a few other QB's.. but Sudfield and his backup are SO different.. the backup can't even come close to running your system. Are recruits on the way to fix the situation? It's a shame you had to scrap your game plan the minute Sudfeld got hurt.. it helped a bit in the tOSU game, as they had no idea what to expect and were a bit gassed, but it will really hurt your chances long term if Nate can't get back.. I feel even if he does get back he'll only be 60-70% the rest of the year.. as opponents will hit him and hit him often knowing he has a bad wheel.

It's almost a PSU situation, as you can't get an experienced backup in quick enough.-sg
Click to expand...
60-70%? Where did you pull that from? There's 7 more games.
 
sg out west said:
how about your back up RB... any skill?.. we're missing both of ours...-sg
Click to expand...
Redding is quite good. Howard was leading the country in rushing before he got hurt against OSU. He may play against you guys. He hurt his ankle too.
 
sg out west said:
I don't know.. he was probably the worst QB in the BIG last year.. Sud was up near the top. On top of that coaches have tape on the kid, they will take away what he likes to do (hit the edges with his feet and scramble) If I'm a DC I tell my kids to keep their rush lanes and make him beat you with his arm.. he can throw the ball but he is extremely inaccurate, and doesn't see the field very well. He looks completely lost shut in the pocket where Nate excels. We'll see.. we can always lose, but I think our chances of a win are 75% better if we don't have to face Nate. Even if Nate is out there, I can't see him being anywhere close to 100% Oh, and I don't miss Tevin Coleman.. an absolute beast.. the best since Anthony Thompson was toting the rock for IU.-sg
Click to expand...
he was a true freshmen that was suppose to redshirt. he wasn't ready to play yet
 
sg out west said:
I'm moderately familiar with IU... it was tough that you lost your coach (Coach Hep?) was probably the best you had in a long time. I do know that IU has had some explosive play makers in the past 3-4 years. What tends to stick out most is that you guys are usually right-handed (talented offense and really lacking on D) I recall watching games last year when your DE's seemed MIA every game that I tuned in to watch for a while. When you guys are at your best it's like watching basketball on grass (I recall that tOSU game when I there were 100+ points scored between you guys). It will be tough to ever rise to the top, you are in a state without much talent that happens to have Notre Dame in it... that being said you seem to be located in a better area than Iowa, Nebraska, or Minnesota. I just don't see what rolling a whole nother regime in would do for Indiana football, consitency is probably the best chance you have at long-term success.. think Glenn Mason at UMinn.-sg
Click to expand...
Actually, the state of Indiana in the past 15 years or so has produced some tremendous high school football players, particularly the Indianapolis area. So there is plenty of in-state football talent. Some people attribute the rise to more interest in football since the Colts moved to Indy in 1984.
 
For what it's worth, regardless of his background, sg out west is on point with his analysis. I don't know why we are acting offended and puffing our chests out. I love Zander. He is already one of my all time favorite Hoosiers, but, through little fault of his own, was CLEARLY the worst QB in the B1G last season. He may be improved, but his arm strength is a minus.

Furthermore, he is correct that we would be foolish to fire Wilson. Coach Hep was awesome, and so were Tevin and AT. I appreciate the civil discourse and outside, informed perspective offered.
 
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studed said:
he was a true freshmen that was suppose to redshirt. he wasn't ready to play yet
Click to expand...

Yes, and he still wasn't the worst in the BIG. His arm was weak last year but certainly looked better Sat. Even the last play he threw a decent spiral on the run. He is not what IU needs right now, but hopefully he will be ready next year.
 
sg out west said:
I actually like your coach... you guys would be stupid to fire him. I know the guy Nate beat out transferred and you lost a few other QB's.. but Sudfield and his backup are SO different.. the backup can't even come close to running your system. Are recruits on the way to fix the situation? It's a shame you had to scrap your game plan the minute Sudfeld got hurt.. it helped a bit in the tOSU game, as they had no idea what to expect and were a bit gassed, but it will really hurt your chances long term if Nate can't get back.. I feel even if he does get back he'll only be 60-70% the rest of the year.. as opponents will hit him and hit him often knowing he has a bad wheel.

It's almost a PSU situation, as you can't get an experienced backup in quick enough.-sg
Click to expand...


I tend to agree with you.

But I think that Zander has some gonads that Nate and others lack that really helps him. He's a tough little guy and his teammates seem to really respond to him.
 
Courtsensetwo said:
Yes, and he still wasn't the worst in the BIG. His arm was weak last year but certainly looked better Sat. Even the last play he threw a decent spiral on the run. He is not what IU needs right now, but hopefully he will be ready next year.
Click to expand...
He certainly wasn't better than any other Big Ten quarterback last year.
 
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Bligedy said:
I tend to agree with you.

But I think that Zander has some gonads that Nate and others lack that really helps him. He's a tough little guy and his teammates seem to really respond to him.
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An inexperienced, physically-limited quarterback paired with an inexperienced, physically-limited receiving corps is a death sentence. That's who we were last year. Diamont now has some experience and is certainly better physically ( though by no means a "specimen"). Add in the fact that he had taken zero meaningful practice reps until the week he became the starter and I think what he was able to do by the end of the season was pretty impressive. No quarterback has ever been thrust into a more difficult situation.

ZD is much improved over last year from both a skill and physical standpoint. Having the experience of playing last year is an enormous advantage. And while our receivers still aren't as good as they need to be overall, we still are much better at that position this year than last.

Any judgment on where Diamont can ultimately be as a qb based on last year is premature and unfair. Very few players are ready to play as true freshmen and those who do are going to make mistakes. Those mistakes are glaring when you are a quarterback.
 
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oldcougar77 said:
An inexperienced, physically-limited quarterback paired with an inexperienced, physically-limited receiving corps is a death sentence. That's who we were last year. Diamont now has some experience and is certainly better physically ( though by no means a "specimen"). Add in the fact that he had taken zero meaningful practice reps until the week he became the starter and I think what he was able to do by the end of the season was pretty impressive. No quarterback has ever been thrust into a more difficult situation.

ZD is much improved over last year from both a skill and physical standpoint. Having the experience of playing last year is an enormous advantage. And while our receivers still aren't as good as they need to be overall, we still are much better at that position this year than last.

Any judgment on where Diamont can ultimately be as a qb based on last year is premature and unfair. Very few players are ready to play as true freshmen and those who do are going to make mistakes. Those mistakes are glaring when you are a quarterback.
Click to expand...

true.. but just trying to gauge where he is now.. we play you this week LOL..from this thread it looks like he is still at a pretty big disadvantage?-sg
 
sg out west said:
true.. but just trying to gauge where he is now.. we play you this week LOL..from this thread it looks like he is still at a pretty big disadvantage?-sg
Click to expand...
Diamont is a gutty kid, but he still struggles mightily to throw the ball. He's pretty quick and can run it out of the zone read, but the offense is far more limited with him at the helm since he's a very limited passer. Tough, spirited kid, but he's got certain shortcomings that are difficult to overcome. That said, I'll be surprised if Sudfeld doesn't play Saturday.
 
Last edited:
sg out west said:
true.. but just trying to gauge where he is now.. we play you this week LOL..from this thread it looks like he is still at a pretty big disadvantage?-sg
Click to expand...

Perhaps . . . but it still took an uncalled holding penalty (Apple) in the end zone on the last play of the game for Diamont's pass to Jones to fall incomplete . . .

. . . Diamont might not have any talent, but the kid doesn't know that.* But then, maybe he does have a bit of talent, and just needs some reps to get comfortable with that. That's why they play these games.





* Bear Bryant' used to say that his favorite player was the guy who didn't have any talent but didn't know it.
 
TheSpa said:
Diamont is a gutty kid, but he still struggles mightily to throw the ball. He's pretty quick and can run it out of the zone read, but the offense is far more limited with him at the helm since he's a very limited passer. Tough, spirited kid, but he's got certain shortcomings that are difficult to overcome. That said, I'll be surprised if Sudfeld doesn't play Saturday.
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I wouldn't play Sud.. PSU pass rush is arguably the best in country right now..dangerous for a kid who can't move at full speed.. not sure why you'd sacrifice a season for a game that would be a toss up with or without Nate?-sg
 
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sg out west said:
I wouldn't play Sud.. PSU pass rush is arguably the best in country right now..dangerous for a kid who can't move at full speed.. not sure why you'd sacrifice a season for a game that would be a toss up with or without Nate?-sg
Click to expand...
I don't think it's a toss up without him.
 
sg out west said:
true.. but just trying to gauge where he is now.. we play you this week LOL..from this thread it looks like he is still at a pretty big disadvantage?-sg
Click to expand...

That's fine, but you didn't open by talking about where he is now, you started your point by stating he was the worse QB in the B1G last year, and many posters here, myself included, gave you plenty of explanation on why he was where he was at last year. If you're trying to gauge where he is now, look at how he played last week, coming in without preparing all week as the starter, against Ohio State of all teams. I think you may be selling Zander a bit short but we'll see - that's why they play the games.
 
Sope Creek said:
Perhaps . . . but it still took an uncalled holding penalty (Apple) in the end zone on the last play of the game for Diamont's pass to Jones to fall incomplete . . .

. . . Diamont might not have any talent, but the kid doesn't know that.* But then, maybe he does have a bit of talent, and just needs some reps to get comfortable with that. That's why they play these games


* Bear Bryant' used to say that his favorite player was the guy who didn't have any talent but didn't know it.
Click to expand...

I like that quote for Zander. His arm was the issue last year and may be still, but Sat was promising. If Howard is back I would feel a lot better about Z starting this week. So many reasons to want to beat Penn St. Besides the record and bowl possibility.
 
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I think Zander gets a bit of a bad rap on his passing. I thought his passes looked pretty good and he had some drops on some of his better ones. The only thing that concerns me is that he a bit of a gunslinger and will force things in any situation. The fact that he is a run threat makes up for the lack of a deep threat. Would hope that Nate is back but if not I think we can roll with Zander for a few games.
 
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Do you KNOW he didn't get reps? Just curious because if I was coach and had a known gimpy OB, I'd be getting my backup ready...just in case.
 
IUHarselCo said:
Do you KNOW he didn't get reps? Just curious because if I was coach and had a known gimpy OB, I'd be getting my backup ready...just in case.
Click to expand...
Not sure if you are referring to my earlier post or not. If so, note that I said he got no reps LAST SEASON prior to becoming the starter. I'm sure he gets plenty of practice reps this season as the clear backup to Sudfeld. That being said, nothing can really simulate taking snaps in a game and due to IU's penchant for close games this season, no one other than Sudfeld had taken a snap in a game before Saturday.
 
IUNY said:
Actually, the state of Indiana in the past 15 years or so has produced some tremendous high school football players, particularly the Indianapolis area. So there is plenty of in-state football talent. Some people attribute the rise to more interest in football since the Colts moved to Indy in 1984.
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Don't forget about Fort Wayne. Great talent coming out of there.
 
Zander last season as stated, was not supposed to play at all. He comes in with a group of WRs who had a horrible case of drops all season long. Those drops still hurt IU in the OSU game this year. Will Zander be able to stretch defenses with his arm the way Nate does? No. But Zander will be able to keep them honest on a zone read type play and if they keep taking away the RB on that, then he's going to break another huge run to the house. He'll be able to hit those quick hit type routes in the passing game, and I believe he'll be able to hit those mid-range routes as well.

IU's offense may not have as many options available to them with Zander in the game instead of Nate, but I'd also say that IU's defense is improved overall from last year and can keep the game closer and more competitive than they were able to last season. So in the end, it may be a wash overall in terms of probability in winning or losing a game.
 
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