IU President, McRobbie, can't leave soon enough.

[hondo314]

Not as bad as the THB mural nonsense.

But the guy hides behind a committee and a 60 page report. Are he and the BoTs capable of doing anything without cover?

Upsheet Creek would be an appropriate name for the Campus River. That's where we'll be when the Left is done with their nonsense.

Funny how sensitive you guys are when the pendulum starts swinging the other way for a change. It’s weird I never hear any of you guys say “well, the dude was a racist but it’s silly to change the name now. It was easier to fall into that trap back then and they did contribute to society in other ways. Let’s leave the name as a tribute and a lesson.”
We get it, the world was so much easier for you when people who looked like you controlled the narrative. Boy, do we got it. Lol

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Funny how sensitive you guys are when the pendulum starts swinging the other way for a change. It’s weird I never hear any of you guys say “well, the dude was a racist but it’s silly to change the name now. It was easier to fall into that trap back then and they did contribute to society in other ways. Let’s leave the name as a tribute and a lesson.”
We get it, the world was so much easier for you when people who looked like you controlled the narrative. Boy, do we got it. Lol

You may be ignorant about this, but Thomas Hart Benton wasn't a racist. Anything but. Hiding some of his murals was a 1st class cowardly pos move for an academic institution. You' re the one who seems to be afraid of history.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Funny how sensitive you guys are when the pendulum starts swinging the other way for a change. It’s weird I never hear any of you guys say “well, the dude was a racist but it’s silly to change the name now. It was easier to fall into that trap back then and they did contribute to society in other ways. Let’s leave the name as a tribute and a lesson.”
We get it, the world was so much easier for you when people who looked like you controlled the narrative. Boy, do we got it. Lol

i've read about his interests in eugenics, (which i'm totally against until i read posts from both sides on the cooler, or see something from an old Jerry Springer Show), but was he a racist?

and what never gets said, is that we all have eugenicist in us as part of our DNA, as it is the basis of the whole natural selection thing is it not.

that said, since i know little of Jordan, was he actively pushing eugenics to be practiced as policy, and if so policy of what institutions or govt, or did he just discuss it theoretically.

that said, his time was the 1800s, and the person himself hasn't been associated with the river or bldg or street by anyone still alive for 100 yrs.

for all our entire lifetimes, and those of our parents and grandparents for most, the name has zero association with a person, and tons of association with tradition.

the young can't grasp the importance of tradition for obvious reasons, but all those now young someday will, and it will be their kids who don't get it.

the river name has been a part of the school's heritage for almost a century, with zero relevance to the individual.

with the biology bldg the "tradition" thing isn't such a big deal, but imo it is with the river.

i'm guessing the street name will remain, at least in parts of the city the university doesn't control. (is the street the city's or the school's from 3rd st through fraternity row)?

that said, seems the best solution for the river is to find a worthy individual with the last name of Jordan, (no, not UNC Michael), to rename it after, which would be a win win for all concerned and the best possible solution.

absent that scenario, how long does IU wait before auctioning off the river's name to the highest bidder.

on the bright side, nobody on the basketball board has petitioned for Knight River yet, but how long before that happens.

 

[abraxis]

O.M.G.

Perhaps you're more of a historian than I am, but I imagine they enticed Blacks to board the ships with a promise of a better life, much like the Martians duped the Homo sapiens onto their ship in the Twilight Zone episode, "To Serve Man". After they left, it was revealed to be a cookbook.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

You may be ignorant about this, but Thomas Hart Benton wasn't a racist. Anything but. Hiding some of his murals was a 1st class cowardly pos move for an academic institution. You' re the one who seems to be afraid of history.

that whole thing was beyond crazy, and the fact that there is nothing racial about the murals, which are fantastic, is a perverted off take of the saying "don't let the facts get in the way of a good story".

 

[Standard Issue]

Could it be some put their names in the auction willingly...say, those with a sense of adventure and nothing much else going on in their lives? (Yes, it’s possible and that doesn’t make me a racist for suggesting it.)

Hmm, it actually makes you a racist and a dumb-ass.
But on the bright side you hit a double.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

that whole thing was beyond crazy, and the fact that there is nothing racial about the murals, which are fantastic, is a perverted off take of the saying "don't let the facts get in the way of a good story".

One or two of them showed the KKK in Indiana in the '20s. As a depiction of Indiana history. At the time HB Wells accepted the mural, it was an act of academic bravery. Hiding them now is academic cowardice.

 

[abraxis]

i've read about his interests in eugenics, (which i'm totally against until i read posts from both sides on the cooler, or see something from an old Jerry Springer Show), but was he a racist?

and what never gets said, is that we all have eugenicist in us as part of our DNA, as it is the basis of the whole natural selection thing is it not.

that said, since i know little of Jordan, was he actively pushing eugenics to be practiced as policy, and if so policy of what institutions or og govt, or did he just discuss it theoretically.

that said, his time was the 1800s, and the person himself hasn't been associated with the river or bldg or street by anyone still alive for 100 yrs.

for all our entire lifetimes, and those of our parents, and grandparents for most, the name has zero association with a person, and tons of association with tradition.

the young can't grasp the importance of tradition for obvious reasons, but all those young someday will, and it will be their kids who don't get it.

the river name has been a part of the school's heritage for almost a century, with zero relevance to the individual.

with the biology bldg the "tradition" thing isn't such a big deal, but imo it is with the river.

i'm guessing the street name will remain, at least in parts of the city the university doesn't control. (is the street the city's or the school's from 3rd st through fraternity row)?

that said, seems the best solution for the river is to find a worthy individual with the last name of Jordan, (no, not UNC Michael), to rename it after, which would be a win win for all concerned and the best possible solution.

absent that scenario, how long does IU wait before auctioning off the river's name to the highest bidder.

on the bright side, nobody on the basketball board has petitioned for Knight River yet, but how long before that happens.

Good points there and thank you. McRobbie is doing it for his own good, padding his curriculum vitae...his resume of life. It fulfills him with a sense of self righteousness before his grand exit.

I like you idea of re-naming the "river" after another person named Jordan. Name it after some random guy, just for grins and giggles. Jordan Hulls would even work...no it wouldn't. I know some dirt on his family's name that I'll never reveal, other than via a private message to Mike Pegram, years ago.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

One or two of them showed the KKK in Indiana in the '20s. As a depiction of Indiana history. At the time HB Wells accepted the mural, it was an act of academic bravery. Hiding them now is academic cowardice.

and not to glorify the KKK, but as a reminder of our past.

and then there's a scene of a young black girl in a hospital bed getting treated by white people, but no doubt if they look hard enough, someone could invent some racist undertone to that.

if those murals are still covered, hopefully the next prez will correct that.

 

[hondo314]

i've read about his interests in eugenics, (which i'm totally against until i read posts from both sides on the cooler, or see something from an old Jerry Springer Show), but was he a racist?

and what never gets said, is that we all have eugenicist in us as part of our DNA, as it is the basis of the whole natural selection thing is it not.

that said, since i know little of Jordan, was he actively pushing eugenics to be practiced as policy, and if so policy of what institutions or govt, or did he just discuss it theoretically.

that said, his time was the 1800s, and the person himself hasn't been associated with the river or bldg or street by anyone still alive for 100 yrs.

for all our entire lifetimes, and those of our parents and grandparents for most, the name has zero association with a person, and tons of association with tradition.

the young can't grasp the importance of tradition for obvious reasons, but all those now young someday will, and it will be their kids who don't get it.

the river name has been a part of the school's heritage for almost a century, with zero relevance to the individual.

with the biology bldg the "tradition" thing isn't such a big deal, but imo it is with the river.

i'm guessing the street name will remain, at least in parts of the city the university doesn't control. (is the street the city's or the school's from 3rd st through fraternity row)?

that said, seems the best solution for the river is to find a worthy individual with the last name of Jordan, (no, not UNC Michael), to rename it after, which would be a win win for all concerned and the best possible solution.

absent that scenario, how long does IU wait before auctioning off the river's name to the highest bidder.

on the bright side, nobody on the basketball board has petitioned for Knight River yet, but how long before that happens.

I’m with you. Probably better to explains and put things in context rather than just rename stuff but I guess I can kinda see where they are coming from. Just labeling the discussion PC crap is my complaint but only a few true patriots on the board do that regularly. Lol

 

[hondo314]

One or two of them showed the KKK in Indiana in the '20s. As a depiction of Indiana history. At the time HB Wells accepted the mural, it was an act of academic bravery. Hiding them now is academic cowardice.

Yup, more of that badass language that shrinks the ol boxers for the “heritage” types. Academic cowardice lol. Lots to be learned from this discussion. Weird you don’t want to talk about misguided southern sympathizers trying to rewrite civil war history in the 20th century with confederate statues. So that’s real history but renaming the Jordan Trickle is fightin words? Dumb

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Yup, more of that badass language that shrinks the ol boxers for the “heritage” types. Academic cowardice lol. Lots to be learned from this discussion. Weird you don’t want to talk about misguided southern sympathizers trying to rewrite civil war history in the 20th century with confederate statues. So that’s real history but renaming the Jordan Trickle is fightin words? Dumb

hondo, obviously you're a racist, as only a racist would glorify someone who killed native americans.

see how easy that was.

if you look hard enough, you can always find something.

have you ever even seen the mural?

 

[hondo314]

hondo, obviously you're a racist, as only a racist would glorify someone who killed native americans.

see how easy that was.

if you look hard enough, you can always find something.

have you ever even seen the mural?

Agreed, it’s big confusing world with contextual layers to the umpteenth degree. If it were my choice I’d keep all the statues and names and just add language to the plaques. Im just saying it doesn’t surprise me that the pendulum is swinging wide on this side since it spent soooo much time swinging wider on the other side.

 

[outside shooter]

that whole thing was beyond crazy, and the fact that there is nothing racial about the murals, which are fantastic, is a perverted off take of the saying "don't let the facts get in the way of a good story".

a nice read here by a THB expert:

In Defense of Keeping the Indiana University Mural That Depicts (But Doesn't Glorify) the KKK

American artist Thomas Hart Benton thought it crucial to highlight the dark spots in the state's history

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Yup, more of that badass language that shrinks the ol boxers for the “heritage” types. Academic cowardice lol. Lots to be learned from this discussion. Weird you don’t want to talk about misguided southern sympathizers trying to rewrite civil war history in the 20th century with confederate statues. So that’s real history but renaming the Jordan Trickle is fightin words? Dumb

You're quite the liar. I never said renaming the Jordan River were fighting words. I said he was hiding behind a committee and a 60 page report was chickenshit.

And as far as confederate statutes. They shouldn't be taken down in the middle of the night by a mob. I have nothing against it if a legal process is followed. Even in that case, I don't like to see things destroyed, be they statutes, books or people.

But continue on with your bs.

 

[T.M.P.]

Oh, I forgot...you're one of those liberal agitators that shouldn't be a moderator here.

Great another rube..

 

[T.M.P.]

I never said (all) slaves were happy to be enslaved. I said not all of them went up the gangplank screaming and kicking in shackles, as portrayed in Hollywood. Some family’s went willingly. Some slaves lived under better living conditions on the plantation than what they had in the bush country of Africa. Not all slaves worked the cotton fields from sun up to sun down. Some cooked in the homes, while others did laundry and other maid-like services. Some did landscaping choirs while others split wood. They made music and sang at night on occasion. Yes, some of the trouble makers were shot or hung, but relatively few. More Whites were being hung from gallows than Blacks during these same times as the Wild West. History wants to engrain in us that Black Africans were ALL mistreated. People want us to believe they are still mistreated to present day-it helps get people voted into office, both Blacks and Whites. Racism is a natural occurrence in the evolution of life. It will never go away entirely. These statements don’t make me a racist, in the traditional sense of the word, one who hates Blacks, Whites, Reds or Chartreuses...any race other than themselves. There are those who use the call of racism to their advantage, even when it doesn’t truly exist in a chosen incident. I recognize that game when I see it, while others choose not to.

I apologize for my earlier post, calling you a rube would be offensive to rubes. You're a complete POS.

 

[abraxis]

I apologize for my earlier post, calling you a rube would be offensive to rubes. You're a complete POS.

Historical truth hurts you when it’s agenda driven. It’s the disillusionment thing, I bet.

 

[Bloom.]

Not my board to moderate, but there has been a complaint on Abraxis' post.



If his argument is not all slaves were beaten and grossly confined to hard labor until they died, risked their life by running or just breaking down and were thus 'put down', then he's surely right. However, if his position is some of them joined like Western European's looking for a better world, that take is utterly stupid.

Regardless of his rationale, he's making the same arguments many who wanted to retain slavery, ultimately pushing the South into the seceding from the union. We know how that went.


I'm sure there were some, a very small few, who, without knowing any better, could've thought the way Abraxis thinks. However, I'd be utterly shocked if any of them felt entitled or better off as their friends or newfound acquaintances were beaten in the fields, denied the ability to educate themselves and function freely.

Slavery is bad. Anyone who argues otherwise is an idiot, even if their point is not all of them had their lives on line in real time. The reality is THEY DID. Had they tried to escape or operate outside their bounds, they had ZERO rights.

 

[UncleMark]

Not my board to moderate, but there has been a complaint on Abraxis' post.

This is what happens when you move idiotic discussions from the sports boards to the Cooler. You'd be better off just locking them down where they started.

The Cooler may not be all that sophisticated and our level of discourse could be higher, but anyone claiming that some slaves didn't have it so bad is going to get raked over the coals.

I'd be fine with this thread being locked and his posts left up for all to see.

 

[Bloom.]

This is what happens when you move idiotic discussions from the sports boards to the Cooler. You'd be better off just locking them down where they started.

The Cooler may not be all that sophisticated and our level of discourse could be higher, but anyone claiming that some slaves didn't have it so bad is going to get raked over the coals.

I'd be fine with this thread being locked and his posts left up for all to see.

I didn't expect that Abraxis could dump himself any lower on racial issues.

 

[mcmurtry66]

This is what happens when you move idiotic discussions from the sports boards to the Cooler. You'd be better off just locking them down where they started.

The Cooler may not be all that sophisticated and our level of discourse could be higher, but anyone claiming that some slaves didn't have it so bad is going to get raked over the coals.

I'd be fine with this thread being locked and his posts left up for all to see.

yeah but i literally laughed out loud about those slaves "with a sense of adventure." i like that a lot. i hear it in a real up-beat john candy voice

 

[T.M.P.]

I didn't expect that Abraxis could dump himself any lower on racial issues.

He's an ignorant racist POS. Of course he would go lower.

 

[UncleMark]

I didn't expect that Abraxis could dump himself any lower on racial issues.

It's not uncommon for these types to show their true colors when challenged. We see it a lot from newcomers from the other boards.

 

[UncleMark]

yeah but i literally laughed out loud about those slaves "with a sense of adventure." i like that a lot. i hear it in a real up-beat john candy voice

I can't get Zippity Do Dah out of my head.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I can't get Zippity Do Dah out of my head.

Ha yes. i could also hear john cleese carry it off. like in the life of bryan when he's talking about the poor and what jesus "fails to realize."

 

[Sope Creek]

Could it be some put their names in the auction willingly...say, those with a sense of adventure and nothing much else going on in their lives? (Yes, it’s possible and that doesn’t make me a racist for suggesting it.)

No, it doesn't make you a racist for saying it . . . but only a racist would say it. And you're a racist.

 

[IUINSB]

Could it be some put their names in the auction willingly...say, those with a sense of adventure and nothing much else going on in their lives? (Yes, it’s possible and that doesn’t make me a racist for suggesting it.)

It's possible some were transported to the New World by aliens. Perhaps Disney cruise ships.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Since you claim there's no systemic racism, I doubt there's anything I'm going to say to change your mind so I'm going to pass on naming any laws (I honestly don't know the laws well enough). I've spent time as a mentor working inside a maximum security juvenile detention center and I spent time in college volunteering inside an inner city school. Those experiences alone have shown me how difficult life is for all poor people but even more so for poor African American people.

do you consider their own culture to be part of the systemic flaw?

 

[Lucy01]

It's not uncommon for these types to show their true colors when challenged. We see it a lot from newcomers from the other boards.

No, it doesn't make you a racist for saying it . . . but only a racist would say it. And you're a racist.

You are very wrong, he was taking about history, he didn’t say one thing racist!

 

[IUINSB]

You are very wrong, he was taking about history, he didn’t say one thing racist!

Racist or not, he did same some incredibly ignorant things.

 

[Lucy01]

Racist or not, he did same some incredibly ignorant things.

What were the ignorant things, because I don’t see racism in what he posted!

 

[bawlmer]

What were the ignorant things, because I don’t see racism in what he posted!

Maybe you're right. I'm struggling to come up with words for why someone would suggest Africans were happy to board slave ships. But when someone says something like that to make a point, racist seems to fit. Among other pejorative terms.

 

[IUINSB]

What were the ignorant things, because I don’t see racism in what he posted!

Here you go.


" I said not all of them went up the gangplank screaming and kicking in shackles, as portrayed in Hollywood. Some family’s went willingly. Some slaves lived under better living conditions on the plantation than what they had in the bush country of Africa. "

---What they "willingly" went to the promised land because of glowing reports sent back to Africa from their relatives

"Could it be some put their names in the auction willingly...say, those with a sense of adventure and nothing much else going on in their lives?"

---I'm sure their owners had the entire say on which slave could volunteer for an "adventure".

"Perhaps you're more of a historian than I am, but I imagine they enticed Blacks to board the ships with a promise of a better life, much like the Martians duped the Homo sapiens onto their ship in the Twilight Zone episode, "To Serve Man". After they left, it was revealed to be a cookbook. "

---Enticed, enticed. They were captured by stronger groups/tribes and sold to European and Arab slave traders.
He is definitely in the Twilight Zone.

 

[Lucy01]

Here you go.


" I said not all of them went up the gangplank screaming and kicking in shackles, as portrayed in Hollywood. Some family’s went willingly. Some slaves lived under better living conditions on the plantation than what they had in the bush country of Africa. "

---What they "willingly" went to the promised land because of glowing reports sent back to Africa from their relatives

"Could it be some put their names in the auction willingly...say, those with a sense of adventure and nothing much else going on in their lives?"

---I'm sure their owners had the entire say on which slave could volunteer for an "adventure".

"Perhaps you're more of a historian than I am, but I imagine they enticed Blacks to board the ships with a promise of a better life, much like the Martians duped the Homo sapiens onto their ship in the Twilight Zone episode, "To Serve Man". After they left, it was revealed to be a cookbook. "

---Enticed, enticed. They were captured by stronger groups/tribes and sold to European and Arab slave traders.
He is definitely in the Twilight Zone.

None of that makes Abraxis a racist!

 

[IUINSB]

None of that makes Abraxis a racist!

Read from post 70 on down.
I did not say he was a racist.
I said that he posted some ignorant things.
You asked what were the ignorant things.
I posted a few of those things and still haven't said he's a racist.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Could it be some put their names in the auction willingly...say, those with a sense of adventure and nothing much else going on in their lives? (Yes, it’s possible and that doesn’t make me a racist for suggesting it.)

WTF?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

This is what happens when you move idiotic discussions from the sports boards to the Cooler. You'd be better off just locking them down where they started.

The Cooler may not be all that sophisticated and our level of discourse could be higher, but anyone claiming that some slaves didn't have it so bad is going to get raked over the coals.

I'd be fine with this thread being locked and his posts left up for all to see.

The recent migration of so many Freebies over here has dramatically increased my opinion of regular Coolerites.

 

[HooDatGuy]

The recent migration of so many Freebies over here has dramatically increased my opinion of regular Coolerites.

I used to go by the name IDontWannaLarge Farva. I had a premie membership before the ban and frequented the cooler. Do you hold a high opinion of me?

 

[abraxis]

Let me clarify a few things, if that is even possible with the rambling ways of my mind, filled with way too many words. I am not a racist. A racist to me is someone who doesn't like another person because that person is a member of another race, in the most basic sense.

I've always been a positive person, even to the point of telling many people through the years that I've been blessed with a happiness gene, if there even is one. I don't know much about the slavery issue, much like the American Indian issue, other than what little I've read or seen on TV or the movies through the years...like most other people. I made the decision at a late point in my life, to believe what I want to believe. Why believe the worst in people, things that brings down the human spirit? One of the things I believe is that not all slaves were abused. Some might have had pretty good lives, relatively speaking, compared to the shit-hole conditions they were accustomed to in Africa. I've read that when slavery was abolished, some slaves chose to remain there. They didn't all flee en masse, running in the opposite direction. I also like to think that there might have been some Africans who boarded the boats willingly, without kicking and screaming. I imagine it to be relatively few, but I think it's possible. Is it true? I don't know and it doesn't matter because it's only what I choose to think. I don't like the thought that slaves were flogged every night or horsewhipped for something as little as stealing the plantation owner's watermelon. Maybe they were, but that's a depressing thought so I think otherwise. I never said you had to think like me. I just share my thoughts because that's what we do here. I envision some of them making music at night from their private quarters behind the mansion....strumming on the old banjo and playing spoons with their other friends. Why does this make me a racist? It seems like some people on here think if you have anything but a negative thought about these enslaved people, it makes one a racist. That's fine if you choose to think that-it's your call. Yes, slavery is a bad thing and is to forever be condemned, but when it happened, American society hadn't evolved, yet, to those higher standards of ethics. That doesn't make it right, but it was allowed to happen by our government at that time in history and we've grown from it. We're on our way to better race relations but, unfortunately will probably never get their 100%, on the racism thing because of the evolutionary DNA thing that has us inherently leery of others who don't look or believe that same way as so others of our "same kind"...survival of the fittest in it's most elemental sense. It's what got us here today.

Anyway, I'm trying to corral my thoughts here. I continue to think not all cops are bad because some have abused their power while other people think all cops are bad and it's a systemic racism problem. Maybe it is, but I chose to think otherwise, because thinking it's a systemic racism is a depressing thought and would make me angry...triggered in condemnation and that's not a way I want to be in the later stage of life...it's not how I want to go out. Likewise, I don't think all slaves were abused. Most were treated with at least a little respect. I imagine some of them developed likable relationships with their owners. Yes, some slave owners were abusive to them but I think through the media we are led to believe many were hung from a tree for something as little as looking cross-eyed at the plantation owner's daughter. Maybe they were, but I think higher of the basic human spirit. Does this make me a racist or as TMP put it so succinctly, a Piece Of Shit? Think what makes you happy or think what makes you angry.

FWIW, a friend of ours, a neighboring Black lady, lost her 8 month battle to breast cancer just last month. Jacque Watson was her name. She never told anyone but her daughter living in Bloomington of her condition and with the Covid hitting, we lost a lot of social contact but my wife kept communicating with her, never knowing of her rapidly deteriorating condition. We used to party together, even attending a couple IU football games, tailgating on the grassy knolls south of the stadium. She was a big IU fan. Last night with a bonfire and the full Harvest Moon rising above the valley, a small group of us saluted her as we felt her spirit. So when so many gang up on me as being a racist for saying the blanket statements, "slaves were happy to be there" or "slaves boarded the boat willingly", when that's not what I said, I don't question what's wrong with me for thinking some might have, but what's wrong with them for thinking it's impossible, which to them qualifies me as some lowly racist piece of shit. Perhaps it helps them think better about themselves, but that's okay...for them.

You are what you think you are. The miracle of life is a beautiful thing to see, for whatever was and ever will be, is now becoming. It's getting better all the time.