ISB Full Show: John Feinstein talks "A Season On The Brink"

[Jim Coyle]

WEDNESDAY'S COYLE & LEARY: Is most definitely 'On The Brink' - John Feinstein joins us... Devonte Green signs with Roc Nation, enters NBA Draft, 'Worth The Wait', the Jerry Yeagley / IU men's soccer documentary certainly was that. Taylor Lehman from TheHoosier is on too. Lots more.

 

[gator mcCluskey]

WEDNESDAY'S COYLE & LEARY: Is most definitely 'On The Brink' - John Feinstein joins us... Devonte Green signs with Roc Nation, enters NBA Draft, 'Worth The Wait', the Jerry Yeagley / IU men's soccer documentary certainly was that. Taylor Lehman from TheHoosier is on too. Lots more.

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Shame that they’re still giving this turd the time of day...

 

[kkott]

Shame that they’re still giving this turd the time of day...

Curious why he's a turd? I know there was alot of angst over Season on the Brink, but I've read several of his books, including SOTB and heard him on interviews, and 1) he's a great writer, and 2) seems like a good and pretty standup guy from the interviews I've heard. I don't recall anything in SOTB that I found shocking or sensationalized. I know Knight didn't like the portrayal, but what are fans gripes with him?

 

[Vern Pain]

Curious why he's a turd? I know there was alot of angst over Season on the Brink, but I've read several of his books, including SOTB and heard him on interviews, and 1) he's a great writer, and 2) seems like a good and pretty standup guy from the interviews I've heard. I don't recall anything in SOTB that I found shocking or sensationalized. I know Knight didn't like the portrayal, but what are fans gripes with him?

I thought it was a very good book. I think there's a part of the fan base who think it's a "hit piece".

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Curious why he's a turd? I know there was alot of angst over Season on the Brink, but I've read several of his books, including SOTB and heard him on interviews, and 1) he's a great writer, and 2) seems like a good and pretty standup guy from the interviews I've heard. I don't recall anything in SOTB that I found shocking or sensationalized. I know Knight didn't like the portrayal, but what are fans gripes with him?

I think you answered your own question there.

BTW, his books "The Last Amateurs" and "A Civil War" are two of my top ten sports books of all time.

 

[Brockettman]

I remember that I got the book for Christmas the year it came out. It was really funny because in most of the family Christmas pictures that year I'm reading SOTB. My wife said that was the last time she was getting me a book at Chritmas. I thought the book was a really good read , and had some great stories of behind the scenes of The IU program and Coach. I always felt that coach was upset about how that book told how coach viewed other coaches and how they coached , and the flaws he saw in their coaching styles. While he might not have liked their style , they were still college coaches , and he didn't want to show them disrespect. The coaching fraternity might try to do everything possible to beat another coach , but there is a code you don't cross. Coach might have felt that his views being made public was a bridge he hadn't agreed to cross in the book. Look at coach and coach Keady. Their games were out and out wars , yet today they do talks together. They both respected how good each coached his team.

 

[kkott]

I remember that I got the book for Christmas the year it came out. It was really funny because in most of the family Christmas pictures that year I'm reading SOTB. My wife said that was the last time she was getting me a book at Chritmas. I thought the book was a really good read , and had some great stories of behind the scenes of The IU program and Coach. I always felt that coach was upset about how that book told how coach viewed other coaches and how they coached , and the flaws he saw in their coaching styles. While he might not have liked their style , they were still college coaches , and he didn't want to show them disrespect. The coaching fraternity might try to do everything possible to beat another coach , but there is a code you don't cross. Coach might have felt that his views being made public was a bridge he hadn't agreed to cross in the book. Look at coach and coach Keady. Their games were out and out wars , yet today they do talks together. They both respected how good each coached his team.

Yeah, my point was that there was nothing that shocked me, and I felt it was factual, and that Feinstein is a standup guy. I think if he agreed not to print something or a comment was off the record, he'd honor that, and I think his record suggests he has or else I don't think he'd keep getting the access for stories that he does. Since I'm watching The Last Dance right now, it strikes me that MJ didn't like how he was portrayed or some of what was revealed in The Jordan Rules, but I don't feel like either he or Coach Knight thought what was published was untrue, just that they didn't like the portrayal or felt some betrayal that maybe an unwritten code had been violated.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Supposedly there was a lot of stuff that he put in the book that he had promised Knight would never be made public before Knight agreed to give him access. Otherwise Bob would have never allowed it. He's essentially a giant money grabbing liar.

 

[Vern Pain]

Supposedly there was a lot of stuff that he put in the book that he had promised Knight would never be made public before Knight agreed to give him access. Otherwise Bob would have never allowed it. He's essentially a giant money grabbing liar.

Knight disliked the book because all the cursing "made me look like a madman".

So you think Feinstein made up all the profanity and the context in which it was delivered?

 

[dbmhoosier]

Knight disliked the book because all the cursing "made me look like a madman".

So you think Feinstein made up all the profanity and the context in which it was delivered?

I highly doubt he made up anything. He just put stuff in the book that he promised Knight he wouldn't.

 

[gator mcCluskey]

Curious why he's a turd? I know there was alot of angst over Season on the Brink, but I've read several of his books, including SOTB and heard him on interviews, and 1) he's a great writer, and 2) seems like a good and pretty standup guy from the interviews I've heard. I don't recall anything in SOTB that I found shocking or sensationalized. I know Knight didn't like the portrayal, but what are fans gripes with him?

If you wanna kiss his ass, that’s your prerogative. He was not honest with RMK and I have seen him say unfavorable things over the years in various interviews with outlets like ESPN, etc. He will get no kudos from me.

 

[Birnk403]

If you wanna kiss his ass, that’s your prerogative. He was not honest with RMK and I have seen him say unfavorable things over the years in various interviews with outlets like ESPN, etc. He will get no kudos from me.

How was he not honest with Knight? Are you equating Knight’s anger over Feinstein’s accurate, if somewhat brutal, portrayal of him with dishonesty?

 

[gator mcCluskey]

How was he not honest with Knight? Are you equating Knight’s anger over Feinstein’s accurate, if somewhat brutal, portrayal of him with dishonesty?

You’re not great at reading comprehension. I have no doubt that everything he put in the book was true. The dishonesty comes in when he indicates that he won’t put something in and puts it in anyway. I believe there were times when RMK explicitly said, “and don’t put this in the book”, and Feinstein still included it. Specifically some of the statements about opposing coaches. Would he have ****ed over one of his favorites like Dean Smith in the same way? Not likely...

 

[kkott]

If you wanna kiss his ass, that’s your prerogative. He was not honest with RMK and I have seen him say unfavorable things over the years in various interviews with outlets like ESPN, etc. He will get no kudos from me.

What a dumbass you are. You think asking why a well-respected journalist is a turd is kissing his ass? How about you get your own brain and quit using that of an almost 80 year old? The bottom line is you don't know what was agreed to, only what your God says was agreed to. And no biographer worth his salt is going to agree not to print the truth of what he saw. How about this: if you're giving access to someone for a book and recognize that disputes over biographies date back to the beginning of biographies, write it down and sign it?... Nevermind, I know, God... errr I mean, Bob is a man of his word and that and a handshake are all he needs, right?

 

[Cavanagh]

What a dumbass you are. You think asking why a well-respected journalist is a turd is kissing his ass? How about you get your own brain and quit using that of an almost 80 year old? The bottom line is you don't know what was agreed to, only what your God says was agreed to. And no biographer worth his salt is going to agree not to print the truth of what he saw. How about this: if you're giving access to someone for a book and recognize that disputes over biographies date back to the beginning of biographies, write it down and sign it?... Nevermind, I know, God... errr I mean, Bob is a man of his word and that and a handshake are all he needs, right?

Don't take Bob's name in vein you little shit

 

[Birnk403]

You’re not great at reading comprehension. I have no doubt that everything he put in the book was true. The dishonesty comes in when he indicates that he won’t put something in and puts it in anyway. I believe there were times when RMK explicitly said, “and don’t put this in the book”, and Feinstein still included it. Specifically some of the statements about opposing coaches. Would he have ****ed over one of his favorites like Dean Smith in the same way? Not likely...

That was Knight’s post-publication viewpoint, unequivocally rejected by Feinstein as false. You aren’t dumb enough to actually believe this isn’t about RMK’s anger over how he was portrayed, are you? That was the issue.

 

[VanPastorMan]

I thought it was a very good book. I think there's a part of the fan base who think it's a "hit piece".

The shame of the book in my view was how it painted Damon Bailey as a Savior. So when he got to IU he had to be the best player on the planet or people saw him as a bust. When I see clips of him today and then realize he averaged about 20ppg as a Senior I realize how great an all around player he was. He was a consummate team player as well.

 

[.Gerdis]

That was Knight’s post-publication viewpoint, unequivocally rejected by Feinstein as false. You aren’t dumb enough to actually believe this isn’t about RMK’s anger over how he was portrayed, are you? That was the issue.

IIRC coach Knights beef was that he was told that this was to be a book focused on the IU basketball team, and not a book focused on himself.

of course, it’s hard to distinguish between the two, as coach Knight for all intensive purposes WAS IU basketball.

 

[kkott]

IIRC coach Knights beef was that he was told that this was to be a book focused on the IU basketball team, and not a book focused on himself.

of course, it’s hard to distinguish between the two, as coach Knight for all intensive purposes WAS IU basketball.

Funny how much conjecture there is over what was agreed to, or what the gripe was, but yet so many are convinced it was Feinstein's fault. Now, think about what you said, does a book by JF (national not local writer) about IU bball even make sense? No. The only thing that made sense is a book about RMK. Maybe if the writer was Hammel, but at that point RMK was a national figure, the book was always going to be about him... it was a biography for heaven's sake! I think, just as with MJ, despite it being factual, once he saw it on paper, he didn't like the person portrayed, accurate or not. And yes, that's conjecture too, but makes a helluva lot more sense looking at the circumstances.

 

[Birnk403]

IIRC coach Knights beef was that he was told that this was to be a book focused on the IU basketball team, and not a book focused on himself.

of course, it’s hard to distinguish between the two, as coach Knight for all intensive purposes WAS IU basketball.

That was Knight’s claim, though Feinstein rejected it as false.

 

[Vern Pain]

The shame of the book in my view was how it painted Damon Bailey as a Savior. So when he got to IU he had to be the best player on the planet or people saw him as a bust. When I see clips of him today and then realize he averaged about 20ppg as a Senior I realize how great an all around player he was. He was a consummate team player as well.

I don't think the book did that at all. In chronicling Knight 's statements from Bailey's 8th grade games, I suppose some fans could have extrapolated on what was actually written. I thought Feinstein was actually pretty dismissive in regards to Knights assertions.

If anyone saw Bailey as a bust, that stupidity is purely on them.

 

[kkott]

I don't think the book did that at all. In chronicling Knight 's statements from Bailey's 8th grade games, I suppose some fans could have extrapolated on what was actually written. I thought Feinstein was actually pretty dismissive in regards to Knights assertions.

If anyone saw Bailey as a bust, that stupidity is purely on them.

Absolutely, and he was playing on some bum knees. Really good player, purpotedly a great teammate and an excellent senior campaign!

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

I think the picture in SI branding Damon the best 8th grader in the country set the bar higher than anything mentioned in SOTB. RMK was using Damon's name to get under Alford's skin and motivate him to work harder and become a leader. JF just happened to be there at the time, compiling his info. Considering how the 87 season turned out, RMK knew what he was doing with Steve.

Personally I loved reading SOTB and thought JF did a good and fair job with the book.

 

[gator mcCluskey]

I would suggest that more people read Bob Knight: His Own Man. It came out a couple years after Season on the Brink and is superior to Feinstein’s book in every respect.

 

[Vern Pain]

I would suggest that more people read Bob Knight: His Own Man. It came out a couple years after Season on the Brink and is superior to Feinstein’s book in every respect.

I read both. "His Own Man" was a syrupy ass kissing piece.

 

[Birnk403]

I would suggest that more people read Bob Knight: His Own Man. It came out a couple years after Season on the Brink and is superior to Feinstein’s book in every respect.

That “book” was a fawning public relations piece that wasn’t remotely close to SOTB. You’re not serious, are you?

 

[jet812]

If you wanna kiss his ass, that’s your prerogative. He was not honest with RMK and I have seen him say unfavorable things over the years in various interviews with outlets like ESPN, etc. He will get no kudos from me.

How do you know it was Feinstein that wasn’t honest. RMK didn’t like it because he was embarrassed, & rightfully so. If he wasn’t ashamed of his behavior, why give the stipulation that certain things shouldn’t be put in the book?

 

[jet812]

You’re not great at reading comprehension. I have no doubt that everything he put in the book was true. The dishonesty comes in when he indicates that he won’t put something in and puts it in anyway. I believe there were times when RMK explicitly said, “and don’t put this in the book”, and Feinstein still included it. Specifically some of the statements about opposing coaches. Would he have ****ed over one of his favorites like Dean Smith in the same way? Not likely...

Dean Smith wouldn’t have to hide his shameful actions or words...

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

How was he not honest with Knight? Are you equating Knight’s anger over Feinstein’s accurate, if somewhat brutal, portrayal of him with dishonesty?

Might be one of the few times (maybe only) I agree with you, but this is spot on.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I believe there were times when RMK explicitly said, “and don’t put this in the book”, and Feinstein still included it. Specifically some of the statements about opposing coaches. Would he have ****ed over one of his favorites like Dean Smith in the same way? Not likely...

You "believe"?

Or you know for fact? And have anecdotal evidence to bolster said claims?

 

[gator mcCluskey]

Dean Smith wouldn’t have to hide his shameful actions or words...

The sainted Dean Smith is a fraud, a cheater (it didn’t just start with Ol’ Roy), and a piss-poor coach who couldn’t win more than two championships in 11 final four appearances with NBA-level talent year in and year out.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Yeah, my point was that there was nothing that shocked me, and I felt it was factual, and that Feinstein is a standup guy. I think if he agreed not to print something or a comment was off the record, he'd honor that, and I think his record suggests he has or else I don't think he'd keep getting the access for stories that he does. Since I'm watching The Last Dance right now, it strikes me that MJ didn't like how he was portrayed or some of what was revealed in The Jordan Rules, but I don't feel like either he or Coach Knight thought what was published was untrue, just that they didn't like the portrayal or felt some betrayal that maybe an unwritten code had been violated.

In the Bob Hammel book "Beyond the Brink with Indiana - 1987 NCAA Champs" it is alluded to that Knight wasn't happy with the profanity quoted verbatim - he expected (assumed?) it would be the same as in a family newspaper.

BTW - if you like Feinstein's work, you need to read "The Legends Club" if you haven't already. One of my all-time favorite reads.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

The sainted Dean Smith is a fraud, a cheater (it didn’t just start with Ol’ Roy), and a piss-poor coach .

Is that why Knight was such good friends with him?

You need to read "The Legends Club". Dean Smith was not only a great coach, but a helluva human being.

 

[gator mcCluskey]

You "believe"?

Or you know for fact? And have anecdotal evidence to bolster said claims?

I think it was referenced in Alford’s book, Playing for Knight. I haven’t read it in over 25 years, but I recall that he told the team about how Feinstein had betrayed his trust and how they were going to have a target on their backs in the B10 because of the bulletin board material revealed in SOTB.

 

[gator mcCluskey]

Is that why Knight was such good friends with him?

You need to read "The Legends Club". Dean Smith was not only a great coach, but a helluva human being.

RMK was friendly with Tark too. Does that mean Tark was clean? Did they fake those pictures in the jacuzzi?

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I think it was referenced in Alford’s book, Playing for Knight. I haven’t read it in over 25 years, but I recall that he told the team about how Feinstein had betrayed his trust and how they were going to have a target on their backs in the B10 because of the bulletin board material revealed in SOTB.

Don't forget how pissed Bobby was with Steve over writing that book.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

RMK was friendly with Tark too. Does that mean Tark was clean? Did they fake those pictures in the jacuzzi?

Friendly with him? Maybe.

Hang out with him, play golf with him - like with Smith every summer? Not that I'm aware of.

 

[gator mcCluskey]

Friendly with him? Maybe.

Hang out with him, play golf with him - like with Smith every summer? Not that I'm aware of.

Smith sucked up to him quite a bit, no doubt. Maybe thought he could get some insight into why he was always able to beat his ass when it mattered...

 

[jet812]

The sainted Dean Smith is a fraud, a cheater (it didn’t just start with Ol’ Roy), and a piss-poor coach who couldn’t win more than two championships in 11 final four appearances with NBA-level talent year in and year out.

I can’t say whether he cheated or not(neither can you), & I absolutely think RMK was a better coach. But Smith was able to behave with class, dignity, & was a much better person based on what I’ve seen from both...

 

[Birnk403]

Smith sucked up to him quite a bit, no doubt. Maybe thought he could get some insight into why he was always able to beat his ass when it mattered...

Smith didn’t “suck up” to Knight. You’re veering way off course in an attempt to drive home an invalid point. Knight wasn’t deceived by Feinstein. He just didn’t care for the mirror’s reflection and blamed JF for it. It’s how RMK often rolled when things didn’t go his way, and it’s at the root of why he was fired.