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Is this something (Nordstream)

IUCrazy2

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Mar 7, 2004
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So both Nordstream pipelines sprung a leak.


Some Euros are pointing the finger our way saying sabotage undermines those protesting in Germany to make a deal with the Russians.
 
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So both Nordstream pipelines sprung a leak.


Some Euros are pointing the finger our way saying sabotage undermines those protesting in Germany to make a deal with the Russians.

i find it hard to believe a NATO member would do this, even the US. The negative fallout for getting caught would greatly outweigh the benefits of cutting the pipelines, I’d think.

crazy times, crazy shit
 
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So both Nordstream pipelines sprung a leak.


Some Euros are pointing the finger our way saying sabotage undermines those protesting in Germany to make a deal with the Russians.
Neither were online.
 
Neither were online.
They weren't pumping but they were apparently still full of gas and there were reportedly two explosions that were several hours apart that damaged them.

So while not technically online, all it would take would be the flip of a few switches to get things going again....well, at least until the underwater pipes were damaged.


There was some domestic political pressure on the Germans to open them back up. It is a bit of a coup for Ukraine to have that option off the table. (I don't think we did it, but I don't think it was an accident either.)
 
They weren't pumping but they were apparently still full of gas and there were reportedly two explosions that were several hours apart that damaged them.

So while not technically online, all it would take would be the flip of a few switches to get things going again....well, at least until the underwater pipes were damaged.


There was some domestic political pressure on the Germans to open them back up. It is a bit of a coup for Ukraine to have that option off the table. (I don't think we did it, but I don't think it was an accident either.)
It’s obviously strange and unfortunate for Europeans. It’s going to be a long winter for them. The next 6-12 months are going to be interesting, to say the least.
 
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I wouldn't be surprised anything warmonger Gestapo Joe does. He continues to provoke Russia and china and mindlessly sends money to keep wars going and people losing lives. Meanwhile, China is making friends in south america. US needs to be negotiating peace and trade.

 
I wouldn't be surprised anything warmonger Gestapo Joe does. He continues to provoke Russia and china and mindlessly sends money to keep wars going and people losing lives. Meanwhile, China is making friends in south america. US needs to be negotiating peace and trade.


Under Wall St, China has widened trade lead in much of Latin America, all the US, and the rest of the world, since day 1 of exporting much of our manufacturing base there.

fify.
 
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It is an act of terror and escalation against a NATO state, just sayin'.
 
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It is an act of terror and escalation against a NATO state, just sayin'.
Whoever did this was very careful to make sure the explosions happened just outside NATO territory. They wanted to make a statement, but they didn't want to provoke any sort of response.

This is likely Russia quietly flexing muscles, but doing so in a way that doesn't ruffle too many feathers.
 
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It’s obviously strange and unfortunate for Europeans. It’s going to be a long winter for them. The next 6-12 months are going to be interesting, to say the least.
This has no effect on Europe's ability to heat their homes this winter. Neither pipeline was going to be opening up any time soon. The damage caused by this attack, if that's what it was, is primarily symbolic.
 
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Whoever did this was very careful to make sure the explosions happened just outside NATO territory. They wanted to make a statement, but they didn't want to provoke any sort of response.

This is likely Russia quietly flexing muscles, but doing so in a way that doesn't ruffle too many feathers.

My devil's advocate question is how would Putin benefit from sabotaging his own pipelines though? He can simply turn off the gas tap if he wants to make the germans/Europeans suffer this winter. We must be missing some vital piece of information.

Or its a false flag operation and an indication of more such acts across Europe?

But having just watched From Russia with Love (again), I have a suspicion it's Spectre. They are trying to get both sides to fight each other.
 
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My devil's advocate question is how would Putin benefit from sabotaging his own pipelines though? He can simply turn off the gas tap if he wants to make the germans/Europeans suffer this winter. We must be missing some vital piece of information.

Or its a false flag operation and an indication of more such acts across Europe?

But having just watched From Russia with Love (again), I have a suspicion it's Spectre. They are trying to get both sides to fight each other.
Assuming it is Russia, and assuming they don't take credit for it, it's a bit like Israel's strategic ambiguity. Russia wants Europe to think it might have been them and to mull over the consequences re: Russia's capabilities when it comes to damaging underwater energy infrastructure.

"If we did this, think about what we could do next time. If we did, which we aren't saying we did."
 
Terrorism is a possibility, but I don't know if the MAGA gravy seals could pull this off in their bass boats, or why they would want to. I guess there are other terrorists, though.
 
My devil's advocate question is how would Putin benefit from sabotaging his own pipelines though? He can simply turn off the gas tap if he wants to make the germans/Europeans suffer this winter. We must be missing some vital piece of information.
He already has turned off the tap. No one expects it to be turned back on this winter.
 
Assuming it is Russia, and assuming they don't take credit for it, it's a bit like Israel's strategic ambiguity. Russia wants Europe to think it might have been them and to mull over the consequences re: Russia's capabilities when it comes to damaging underwater energy infrastructure.

"If we did this, think about what we could do next time. If we did, which we aren't saying we did."

Just don't see how it benefits Russia. Why blow it up and not just turn off the gas? Winter is coming soon. So the timing is weird then. You are blowing up one of your key political/psychological leverages?

If you want to show your ability to widen the conflict, this will be the case of cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Surely there must be better symbolic targets and approaches?
 
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Just don't see how it benefits Russia. Why blow it up and not just turn off the gas? Winter is coming soon. So the timing is weird then. You are blowing up one of your key political/psychological leverages?

If you want to show your ability to widen the conflict, this will be the case of cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Surely there must be better symbolic targets and approaches?
Again, Russia has already shut off the gas. No gas was flowing through those pipes.
 
Just don't see how it benefits Russia. Why blow it up and not just turn off the gas? Winter is coming soon. So the timing is weird then. You are blowing up one of your key political/psychological leverages?

If you want to show your ability to widen the conflict, this will be the case of cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Surely there must be better symbolic targets and approaches?
Obviously, they didn't see any scenario in which they'd be turning either one on any time soon.
 
I understand that. But he could always turn on the supplies back on in Feb in the middle of this European winter of discontent?
Thats leverage.
The Baltic's pretty shallow. How long will it take to repair the leaks?

Again, if this was Russia, we have to conclude that they didn't see any likely scenario in which they'd want to turn it back on any time soon, "any time soon" being defined as "notably sooner than a reasonable time frame for repairing the leaks."
 
Seriously, does anyone have any insight into how long it would take to repair these leaks? That's a key piece of data we need to have.
I know nothing about fixing the leaks,, but if I did, I would think you would have to see how badly damaged they are to estimate a repair time.
 
I know nothing about fixing the leaks,, but if I did, I would think you would have to see how badly damaged they are to estimate a repair time.
Probably. I'm just looking for a really broad, generic window. Is it months? Years? This is important for trying to figure out what is in Putin's mind. Because lowrider is right - Putin did give up some form of potential leverage if he did this, and if that's the case, then he figured that possessing said leverage had little to no value to him for whatever that generically broad window of time is.
 
Seriously, does anyone have any insight into how long it would take to repair these leaks? That's a key piece of data we need to have.
Can ask the GF but I doubt if she knows the pipeline end of the biz.
She did the upstream portion (design, engineering for extraction & refining facilities) for Nordstream 1 and 2.
Was in the middle of a $40B project (which is think was for the Nordstream 2) when her company had to pull out just 6 weeks ago.
 
Probably. I'm just looking for a really broad, generic window. Is it months? Years? This is important for trying to figure out what is in Putin's mind. Because lowrider is right - Putin did give up some form of potential leverage if he did this, and if that's the case, then he figured that possessing said leverage had little to no value to him for whatever that generically broad window of time is.

So not exactly apples to oranges, but this article indicates that it can take "weeks to months" to repair a land based gas line in "other parts of the country" (U.S.) as opposed to the 18 months+ it had taken to repair the line that was the subject of the article.

Again, no engineer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn at least once in my life....but I would think you would have a similar timeframe on the long end of that weeks and months estimate to deal with the location. I would assume they would cut both ends of the damaged pipe and remove the damaged piece and reinsert a new line. That sounds engineering wise, like it would be more difficult then just placing new line. Additionally, the depth of the line and the location would have an impact. It is off of Danish waters and who knows how interested they would be in having the Russians that close during a crisis...
 

So not exactly apples to oranges, but this article indicates that it can take "weeks to months" to repair a land based gas line in "other parts of the country" (U.S.) as opposed to the 18 months+ it had taken to repair the line that was the subject of the article.

Again, no engineer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn at least once in my life....but I would think you would have a similar timeframe on the long end of that weeks and months estimate to deal with the location. I would assume they would cut both ends of the damaged pipe and remove the damaged piece and reinsert a new line. That sounds engineering wise, like it would be more difficult then just placing new line. Additionally, the depth of the line and the location would have an impact. It is off of Danish waters and who knows how interested they would be in having the Russians that close during a crisis...
What's the threat of the Nordstream pipes blowing up again? Seems to me that's the first order of bidness . . . gotta protect the work crews . . . .
 
🧐

U.S. “Leadership” should remain “cool, calm, and dry” on the SABOTAGE of the Nord Stream Pipelines. This is a big event that should not entail a big solution, at least not yet. The Russia/Ukraine catastrophe should NEVER have happened, and would definitely not have happened if I were President. Do not make matters worse with the pipeline blowup. Be strategic, be smart (brilliant!), get a negotiated deal done NOW. Both sides need and want it. The entire World is at stake. I will head up group???
@realDonaldTrump
 
What's the threat of the Nordstream pipes blowing up again? Seems to me that's the first order of bidness . . . gotta protect the work crews . . . .
If they turned off the gas at the point of origin and then let the rest leak out (or more likely force it out) then there shouldn't be major concerns for that (leaving possibility that trapped gas would be an issue).

The threat of more explosions would also be related to who or what caused the initial ones to go off.
 
If they turned off the gas at the point of origin and then let the rest leak out (or more likely force it out) then there shouldn't be major concerns for that (leaving possibility that trapped gas would be an issue).

The threat of more explosions would also be related to who or what caused the initial ones to go off.
Origin = Russia. Do we trust them to do that?
 
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