I think she's got some blinders on
Is DeSantis the future President-for-Life?
- Thread starter TheOriginalHappyGoat
- Start date
I think she's got some blinders on
I will take that answer as youer admittance that we all did win under Trump, AND The "horrid danger" that Trump posed, actually isn't in office anymore. AND if he was, he wouldn't be in ~2 more years. Ron can make us all win and the democracy won't fall apart.
Good night Goat.
He's definitely more genuine too.
If, and this is a big IF, he would nominate quality advisors and, more importantly, listen to their advice, he could be decent. He's still too much of a loose cannon and too religious for me, but I don't know who the hell else is really in play on that side of the aisle.
It's way too early to really worry about it, according to conventional thinking. It will be another year or so before we really know who the legit contenders are.
I certainly won under Trump. I also won under Obama, although I won even more under Trump. And right now, I'm doing more winning than under either of them. So I guess Biden is the best president ever?
Or maybe my personal success has very little relationship to who is sitting in the Oval.
In today's era of information, it's just hard to imagine someone flying under the radar still that could end up a legit contender on either side. But, I'm just a cynic.
I'm not saying conventional wisdom is still correct, or even that it ever was. I mean, obviously, it looks right now that it will be Trump or DeSantis. But who knows who else will throw their hat in the ring after the midterms?
DeSantis is looking for deflections about the fact that the Miami-Dade GOP committee is stacked with members of The Proud Boys. No s***! So what does he come out with the other day? Proposing legislation to prevent children from going to drag shows in public parks.
If the Pubs know what's good for them, it will be nobody.
Oh please, Biden's already bending over to appease the far left. They'll be forgiven soon enough.
Dear lord... if his acting is any indication, I'd rather trot out a Kardashian.
Not mine.Oh please, Biden's already bending over to appease the far left. They'll be forgiven soon enough.
Pence failed as a Super Christian Governor in a state inhabited almost entirely by Super Christians. Then, he completely f*cked up any relationship he could ever have with the MAGA crowd by simply doing his job. They wanted to hang him. He has no future.
Can you edit your race on the application? That should do it.
Honestly glad to hear that man!
Considering where you are in your "life cycle", there is something to be said as to where you start measure to base the "stats". Either way, I'm honestly glad that you are getting up on plane. We need you to be GD successful, my SS payments in a few years needs help!
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
I'ver heard her interviewed in a few places and don't find her very impressive. For example, she says "All the authoritarian tendencies." Could we list those? From my reading of the article, the prof thinks republican policy is "authoritarian."Yes, that's an intentionally inflammatory topic title meant to get your attention, but I think the issue raised in the linked article is actually worthy of discussion. In short, DeSantis is actually more dangerous to democracy than Trump, because he shares all the same authoritarian tendencies, but comes with none of the baggage that might hold him back.
DeSantis is a 'very dangerous individual' because he has 'already absorbed all the lessons of Trump' but doesn't have any of the baggage, an expert on fascism argues
"He's readying himself for a national run, if it's in 2024 or later. And he's a very dangerous individual," historian Ruth Ben Ghiat said of DeSantis.www.businessinsider.com
From the aricle:
"He's clearly readying himself for a national run, whether it's in 2024 or later. And he's a very dangerous individual," Ben Ghiat said. "He's dangerous because he is equally repressive, but doesn't have the baggage of Trump. It's hard to have the baggage of Trump."
DeSantis has recently signed controversial bills like Florida's "Don't Say Gay" bill — which limits teachers' curriculum around sexual orientation and gender identity in grades Kindergarten through third — and the
Stop WOKE Act, which restricts how race is discussed in workplaces, schools, and colleges. He also implemented an Office of Election Crimes and Security, rankling voting rights advocates.
Essentially, she is saying: Desantis might be the next Republican nominee. Desantis would try to enact Republican policy. Therefore, democracy is in danger. Not deep thinking here. (This could be the article's fault and it is not capturing her argument correctly.)
She also talks about how a prosecution is needed to deflate the Trump cult of personality and then shifts to Desantis because of his "absorption" of ideas. But a cult of personality follows the personality, doesn't it? How many cults of personality shift over to another individual and follow them equally (I really don't know)? Also, doesn't absorb just mean learn? Doesn't she just mean Desantis "learned" from Trump what issues are important to the Republicans?
Here's the definition of "authoritarian":
favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.
Is Desantis more likely to do this than, say, Biden? In comparing him to Mussolini, and no doubt Hitler, aren't those big claims that need big evidence? Where is that evidence that Desantis secretly wants to destroy democracy to the extent of a Mussolini or Hitler? I haven't yet seen it, but I don't follow this stuff as closely as many of you.
This book seems kind of like a shameless money grab pointed directly at progressives who want to confirm their priors that Trump is Hitler incarnate. Here's the blurb about it from her website:
Strongmen
Mussolini To The Present
Ours is the age of the strongman, of heads of state who damage or destroy democracy, use masculinity as a tool of political legitimacy, and promise law and order rule – and then legitimize lawless behavior by financial, sexual, and other predators. Covering a century of tyranny, this book examines how authoritarians use propaganda, virility, corruption, and violence to stay in power, and how they can be opposed.
The article did a poor job...sort of. She obviously sees certain Republican policies as inherently authoritarian, but her argument is deeper than that, if you read her actual writing:
Ron DeSantis is turning Florida into his own mini-autocracy
Success in today's GOP means embracing extremism, bullying peers, and silencing and punishing political enemies
lucid.substack.com
From the end of that essay (emphasis mine):
Democratic frames of reasoning don't help us to understand decisions that fly in the face of good governance and heighten the possibility of harmful outcomes. Who benefits from increased polarization, from ideologues replacing experts, from turning citizens into informers?
A leader like DeSantis, who seems intent on creating his own mini-autocracy in Florida, to be scaled up in 2024. He has interfered in areas previously beyond gubernatorial authority, asserting his power to make appointments, including to the State Supreme Court, without Cabinet approval. The governor is "essentially the speaker of the House, the president of the Senate, and the chief justice of the Supreme Court right now," says a sitting Republican state legislator, speaking anonymously.
DeSantis may cast himself as the savior of "freedom" in Florida, but the real meaning of his idea of liberty is clear. He wants to be free of any constraints on his ability to govern in ways that benefit the consolidation of his personal power. That's how autocrats think. His defeat in 2022 --and if it comes to it, in 2024--is imperative for the future of American democracy.
Probably true, but he still has to have some juice with the Christian Right. If Trump’s sway over the party wanes, and if people tire of the strong man act that sucks in the weak Trump followers, he could gain traction.
It’s all about early momentum in the primaries, because even the few intelligent Trump supporters have proven they will support whoever is the Republican nominee, because the person has an R beside their name.
What I’m saying is, if someone other than DeSantis gained traction during the primaries and got momentum, most Republicans would get on board that train. The MAGA crowd alone can’t elect a President.
The person may not be Pence, but someone will have a lane to compete, although DeSantis is clearly the early favorite.
This brings up an interesting side issue. Trump's takeover of the white evangelical right was not complete, and there's a current divide there that mirrors the wider divide among Republicans. Fresh Air had a good segment on the issue last month:
Good segment and a lot to unpack there, so I won’t comment tonight. I will say this: I believe anyone who leaves a church because the pastor preaches the Christian truth, but it doesn’t coincide with their political beliefs-left or right, may be going for the wrong reasons anyway.
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anon_6hv78pr714xta
Guest
That’s just a lot of conclusory language strung together. Again, I don’t find her a very deep or careful thinker.The article did a poor job...sort of. She obviously sees certain Republican policies as inherently authoritarian, but her argument is deeper than that, if you read her actual writing:
Ron DeSantis is turning Florida into his own mini-autocracy
Success in today's GOP means embracing extremism, bullying peers, and silencing and punishing political enemies
From the end of that essay (emphasis mine):
Democratic frames of reasoning don't help us to understand decisions that fly in the face of good governance and heighten the possibility of harmful outcomes. Who benefits from increased polarization, from ideologues replacing experts, from turning citizens into informers?A leader like DeSantis, who seems intent on creating his own mini-autocracy in Florida, to be scaled up in 2024. He has interfered in areas previously beyond gubernatorial authority, asserting his power to make appointments, including to the State Supreme Court, without Cabinet approval. The governor is "essentially the speaker of the House, the president of the Senate, and the chief justice of the Supreme Court right now," says a sitting Republican state legislator, speaking anonymously.DeSantis may cast himself as the savior of "freedom" in Florida, but the real meaning of his idea of liberty is clear. He wants to be free of any constraints on his ability to govern in ways that benefit the consolidation of his personal power. That's how autocrats think. His defeat in 2022 --and if it comes to it, in 2024--is imperative for the future of American democracy.
You’ve hit on the only piece of “evidence” in that excerpt with your bolding. And a stray anonymous quote that could be read a few different ways (some innocuously on the topic of whether DeSantis wants to be a dictator) doesn’t persuade me very much.
And of course, even if he did have ambitions to “consolidate his power” if he were president, how far do we think that could go? Is the US Supreme Court really going to bend to the will of any President? Our military? The fed deep state? Doubtful.
I went back and read the whole substack piece. It's hyper-partisan junk, not academic writing. Here are a few statements she makes that I'd expect to hear come out of the worst partisan hacks:
"Florida, Texas, and other Republican-governed states are becoming laboratories of American autocracy, passing legislation that institutionalizes homophobia, and racism."
"Many 21st century authoritarian governments take the form of electoral autocracies. Voters go to the ballot box, but the outcome of the election is often what those in power need it to be. American states like Ohio have long had a version of this system."
I'm not a DeSantis guy. I'm sure if I look closely at his politics I'll find a lot I don't like. But if you're going to make a big claim like "this guy is the next Mussolini" you need to back it up with real evidence and sound arguments. She fails in my opinion.
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I think there is very little chance of a rise of an authoritarian president unless they can seriously get the national machine to ignore election results. At some point the market cycle and global events would get a president blamed for things that really aren’t in their control and cost them an election.
The biggest risk for DeSantis is Trump. The second biggest is that the RNC and presidential general campaign would be kicking off at the same time Florida will be going through its summer COVID surge and he’ll look like Nero fiddling while Rome burns if he’s out campaigning while the hospitals are full and deaths are way above average again.
The biggest risk for DeSantis is Trump. The second biggest is that the RNC and presidential general campaign would be kicking off at the same time Florida will be going through its summer COVID surge and he’ll look like Nero fiddling while Rome burns if he’s out campaigning while the hospitals are full and deaths are way above average again.
Disagree. People are over Covid. If anything his take on Covid will help him. The Covid trackers would never vote for him anyway.
DeSantis already has 112 mil. Elon Musk said he's his vote today. If Trump is serious about a run he will need to announce it soon to try to slow Desantis' momentum. A big Nov win, which is looking likely, and DeSantis will be soaring
Whew, Casey Anthony poppped into my head and I was confused about my feelings.
That's underway. A number of key states have Big Lie proponents/election deniers running for Secretary of State. One of them, Jim Marchant, won Nevada's primary earlier this week. Nevada may soon have a new election denier Senator, too, as Adam Laxalt won that primary.
With an increasing number of election deniers running state and local elections, coupled with influential election deniers in Congress, authoritarian rule is no longer a far-fetched notion.
Make sure you keep plenty of lotion on hand for all of the hand-wringing.Yes, that's an intentionally inflammatory topic title meant to get your attention, but I think the issue raised in the linked article is actually worthy of discussion. In short, DeSantis is actually more dangerous to democracy than Trump, because he shares all the same authoritarian tendencies, but comes with none of the baggage that might hold him back.
DeSantis is a 'very dangerous individual' because he has 'already absorbed all the lessons of Trump' but doesn't have any of the baggage, an expert on fascism argues
"He's readying himself for a national run, if it's in 2024 or later. And he's a very dangerous individual," historian Ruth Ben Ghiat said of DeSantis.
Sounds like those folks need a spine then if they allow him to operate that way. More likely, is that he’s acting (policy, not behavior) as the people want him too & the sitting state legislators, superme court, etc aren’t going to go against because they want to keep their elected and appointed positions.The article did a poor job...sort of. She obviously sees certain Republican policies as inherently authoritarian, but her argument is deeper than that, if you read her actual writing:
Ron DeSantis is turning Florida into his own mini-autocracy
Success in today's GOP means embracing extremism, bullying peers, and silencing and punishing political enemies
From the end of that essay (emphasis mine):
Democratic frames of reasoning don't help us to understand decisions that fly in the face of good governance and heighten the possibility of harmful outcomes. Who benefits from increased polarization, from ideologues replacing experts, from turning citizens into informers?A leader like DeSantis, who seems intent on creating his own mini-autocracy in Florida, to be scaled up in 2024. He has interfered in areas previously beyond gubernatorial authority, asserting his power to make appointments, including to the State Supreme Court, without Cabinet approval. The governor is "essentially the speaker of the House, the president of the Senate, and the chief justice of the Supreme Court right now," says a sitting Republican state legislator, speaking anonymously.DeSantis may cast himself as the savior of "freedom" in Florida, but the real meaning of his idea of liberty is clear. He wants to be free of any constraints on his ability to govern in ways that benefit the consolidation of his personal power. That's how autocrats think. His defeat in 2022 --and if it comes to it, in 2024--is imperative for the future of American democracy.
You honestly wonder about this when your democrat party wants to squash and cancel any thoughts that are different than the woke bullshit they’re pushing in schools and every where else?Yes, that's an intentionally inflammatory topic title meant to get your attention, but I think the issue raised in the linked article is actually worthy of discussion. In short, DeSantis is actually more dangerous to democracy than Trump, because he shares all the same authoritarian tendencies, but comes with none of the baggage that might hold him back.
DeSantis is a 'very dangerous individual' because he has 'already absorbed all the lessons of Trump' but doesn't have any of the baggage, an expert on fascism argues
"He's readying himself for a national run, if it's in 2024 or later. And he's a very dangerous individual," historian Ruth Ben Ghiat said of DeSantis.
The people living in Florida are happy with the way DeSantas has governed the state. Except for the ones not getting their way on leftest ideas.
So that's what people use their lotion for. Learn something every day around here.
First, it's "DeSantis." And you're clearly not paying attention, because DeSantis has become quite the Cancel Man himself.
So the people of Florida agree with him, except for the ones who don't?
Brilliant!
