Is Debord's return a foregone conclusion?

Discussion in 'IU Football Board' started by IUCX9, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. IUCX9

    IUCX9 Newcomer
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    Seems like the longer it goes without a decision, the more likely he will return.

    With regards to Jaden Johnson, it seems like we are still recruiting towards Debord's RPO offense he built with Josh Dobbs. I like that offense, but the play calling has been frustrating to say the least.

    As for recruiting in general, it seems unethical and dishonest to recruit and sign these kids thinking Debord will be the OC, only to have him "retire" after NSD. Allen does not seem like the type of man to do that. Thoughts?
     
  2. Sope Creek

    Sope Creek Hall of Famer
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    Why would you assume DeBord is retiring?

    It's not unanimous by any stretch, but I think it's fair to say that this board's general view is that DeBord will return for 2019, and for the foreseeable future.
     
  3. Bowlmania

    Bowlmania Junior
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    There's absolutely nothing unethical or deceptive about it if the evaluation process is still underway and a decision hasn't yet been made. Maybe DeBord has been given some time to contemplate his future. Maybe Allen is determining who's available in the event that a decision has already been made to bring in a new guy. Then again, maybe it's already been decided that DeBord will be back.

    These things take time. And a lot of assistants are still focused on the 2018 season, with another game to play. It's probably not the easiest time to interview guys. We'll see how it plays out, but it's kind of silly, in my opinion, to suggest that an announcement of a new coordinator in, for example, January would somehow be unethical.
     
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  4. td75

    td75 All-American
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    I think people WANT Mike to retire, hence the assumptions that he his retiring. As someone the other day pointed out, if he's only in his early 60s, he could easily coach for 6 more years.

    It's probably not easy to just walk away from a 500k salary. He's cashing a weekly check totalling roughly $9,600.00 per week! Most of us would be happy to earn that per month.
     
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  5. IUFan_FWA

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    I think changes to coaching staffs will be going on until late January or even into Feb. Head coaching changes are happening now, the early signing period starts in two weeks, then you’ve got the holidays, bowl games, and then the February signing period. Quite a lot of things happening and many new HCs won’t fill out their new staffs until then.

    No matter what people think, coach Debord is well respected in the business and Tom Allen is a good man. I would be very surprised if he simply fired Mike Debord. If -and I think it’s a big if - Allen decides to part ways with him, he’ll help him make a soft landing and find another gig before his departure from IU is announced. But I think he will be back. We will see but probably not for another 6-8 weeks.
     
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  6. grammy2

    grammy2 Benchwarmer
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    Debord would look better if ramsey wasn't the qb. Maybe vice-versa, maybe.
    One has to go next year.
     
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  7. CC  Mac

    CC Mac Senior
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    I think Debord stays and I think Penix will start with Ramsey getting snaps in some type of wildcat and goal line situations.
    He’s a tough kid and a good athlete,he needs to be on the field some in my opinion.
     
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  8. 76-1

    76-1 All-Big Ten
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    I think he'll be back; schemes weren't the problem, execution was. Get a few more Jimmies and Joes and suddenly Debord is seen as a genius... The reality, of course, lies somewhere in between the extremes...
     
  9. Superstar84b

    Superstar84b Freshman
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    I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that Ramsey won’t start. He has some things to work on but so does Penix at this point. Ramsey is going into his fourth year and the lights might turn on. I think that most of his issues are correctable at this point. He struggles in specific situations.

    I really like Deboard. I hope that he returns. I’m not saying that to be contrarian but when you look at what he did at UT with a formidable line, they put up points. Then when I look at specific plays they’re almost unstoppable when he calls them. It kinda reminds me of Eli Manning with the Giants. Beautiful play designs but not execution. Deboard usually calls some nice passes against the perfect coverage like on the first possession against Purdue when he went to Westbrook. The only thing that stopped the drive was a drop later in the Drive by Timian that would’ve gotten the team in scoring range. Crap like that happens often enough, combined with bad run blocking that makes Deboard look worse than he actually is. With that being said, I’d love to have him back if the line is better. The run blocking at times would make Mike Leach look average.
     
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  10. IUCol

    IUCol Sophomore
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    Don't really agree on Debord, but I trust your take on him. Something wasn't right at times in the play calling but another season might see improvement there. As for Ramsey, based on the injury to Penix...and my belief that Ramsey is going to make a big improvement himself by next fall and will start. Penix may be back physically by then but will be far behind in prep and feel. And for me that is just fine if Ramsey has the reins...
     
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  11. Palmbeachhoosier

    Palmbeachhoosier Sophomore
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    I do believe that Ramsey has done an admirable job. However I am hopeful that Penix fully recovers from his injury, has continued to learn the offense, learned to take of the football and takes the starting job from Ramsey. If he doesn’t then I hope that Ramsey has continued to progress and finally able to lead us to more BIG victories.
     
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  12. 82hoosier

    82hoosier All-American
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    This year as well as last year the Hoosiers entered the Oaken Bucket game with only one healthy quarterback who had taken a meaningful snap all season. That has to change. Whoever is quarterback next season I hope they are instructed to slide rather that go for the extra couple yards and risk injury.
     
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  13. Hoosiers Rising

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    That's not going to happen with Debord. We lost one qb and the other was beat to hell and largely ineffective at times.
     
  14. Bowlmania

    Bowlmania Junior
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    He had Dobbs.

    With respect to Ramsey, if I were coaching I'd love to have a roster filled with guys like him, with his gritty determination, toughness and drive. That said, he now has a lot of games under his belt yet I didn't see a significant improvement in his game over the course of the season that just ended. We absolutely need him on the roster, but if the ball isn't in Penix's hands for the first snap of the 2019 season (unless Penix is still not at 100% following surgery), I'll be perplexed and disappointed.
     
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  15. LeConte

    LeConte All-American
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    I agree with this - he put us in a position to make plays. My only real concern with DeBoard and his philosophy last year is it was dependent on small chunk, long drives - which means you can't make any mistakes to score points. We made a lot of mistakes at crappy times with penalties, drops, and missed assignments.
    But as your former coach always said - you call the plays you can block. With Feeney and Spriggs the playbook is wide open.
     
  16. td75

    td75 All-American
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    I'll go ahead and tell you guys right now, Peyton Ramsey WILL be the game one STARTER. That's just how Tom Allen rolls, it's his conservative approach and it will happen.

    It's not what I want, absolutely not, but it will happen as long as Ramsey stays healthy.
     
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  17. Busch34

    Busch34 Recruit
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    I really think Ramsey will be starter all next season as long as he shows improvement. At times last year he just seemed to content to take the underneath stuff instead of pushing it down field. But we all know Scott is the star of this offense. He needs to touch the ball 30 times a game. And then use some play action. Once Penix is healthy I'm sure Ramsey will be on a short leash.
     
  18. Grateful Redbeard

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    Penix is way more talented. He didn't have as firm of a grasp on the offense early on though, so Ramsey got the nod. Penix will not be able to participate in spring ball, but he should be ready by the start of 2-a-days. I think that Allen will play the best player who gives him the best chance to win. If Penix is healthy then he should be starting because he's better. If Ramsey starts game 1 then I have to believe that Penix is still getting healthy. I'd even argue that if Penix hadn't gotten hurt vs PSU, he'd have taken over the starting job this year.
     
  19. coachv jr

    coachv jr Benchwarmer
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    i don't know why ramsey would run the wildcat in goal line situations. penix is the better runner and athlete
     
  20. fpeaugh

    fpeaugh All-American
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    He’ll be back. Debord isn’t the problem.
     
  21. DANC

    DANC Senior
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    We've got Reece and now the Wisconsin kid who played QB as potential Wildcat QBs.

    I agree - Ramsey isn't a Wildcat QB. He has good speed and would be good for some designed running plays, though.

    Honestly, though, I think the job is Ramsey's to lose. He'd have to be hurt or show no progression for Penix to take over full time, in my opinion.

    I just hope Penix decides to stick around.
     
  22. Walt542

    Walt542 Senior
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    Are you sure that Penix won’t be able to get repetitions in with the blue shirt on in the spring? Won’t see him in any live action but may he be able to throw the ball around a bit?
     
  23. Courtsensetwo

    Courtsensetwo Hall of Famer
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    Penix will miss live action in spring ball. He may start game one, but likely he will have to win the role over the first three games. Deboard coming back is not a sure bet.
     
  24. indy1203

    indy1203 All-American
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    Schemes certainly seemed to be a problem. If a team
    only schemes to move the ball 5 yards at a time
    down the field the chances of failure will be greatly
    increased.
     
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  25. DANC

    DANC Senior
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    No offense to anyone, but I always chuckle when I hear something like 'the scheme isn't the problem, execution is'.

    Well, yeah, any play that doesn't score a touchdown can be considered a lack of execution. That's like saying the South had a great war plan but they just didn't execute their plan properly.

    I mean, has anyone had a plan that didn't depend on execution to work?
     
  26. IndyIUFan66

    IndyIUFan66 Junior
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    Agree, think like Ramsey replaced Lagow, believe Penix was poised to get the nod after PSU game, where he started the 2nd half, had he not gotten injured.

    People need to compartmentalize the fact that you can very much like Ramsey and yet still feel Penix has more upside as the starter. Just as fast, potentially much stronger arm, and has some of the "it" factor to stand in the pocket and get the ball downfield. I like Ramsey a lot, but I'd like to see Penix end up the starter next year. Time will tell.
     
  27. indy1203

    indy1203 All-American
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    So, we will continue to do the same thing and expect
    a different result.
     
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  28. Grateful Redbeard

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    Penix showed up last spring to IU as a better athlete, a stronger arm, and way more upside. Ramsey had a 2 year head start with the playbook though. That mattered and was why he won the job. Remember that Penix also beat out the UA grad transfer QB to be the 2nd string QB. He was only the backup due to not having enough of a grasp of the playbook. Otherwise he'd have started from day 1.

    Allen is no dummy and he knows he has to win at least 6 games and get to a bowl next year or he's going to be on a very hot seat. I believe he's going to play the guy that gives him the best chance to win. Not simply play Ramsey because it his job "to lose". Also, even with a knee injury, Penix still is a better athlete, has a stronger arm, and way more upside than Ramsey. Penix is still clearly the future for IU at QB, knee injury or not.
     
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  29. DANC

    DANC Senior
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    I think you and I have a very different perception of Allen. Of course, he's no dummy. But I think - my opinion only - is that he's like Mallory in terms of loyalty.

    And with him, fierce competitiveness plays big. Now, I don't know if there's a difference in Ramsey or Penix in terms of competitiveness, but Allen says that about Ramsey, but is not a phrase or term he uses when describing Penix.

    Penix may well be our QB of the future, but I still think it's Ramsey's job to lose with Allen.
     
  30. UncleMark

    UncleMark All-American
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    I've contended that since it happened. I'm of the opinion that had Penix finished out the PSU game and acquitted himself well, he would have been the starter from that point on. But we'll never know...
     
    30 UncleMark, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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  31. 82hoosier

    82hoosier All-American
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    I have no idea if DeBord will stay or go. I do know that CTA said he was begging them to throw he ball down the field. And the decision to stretch the field was not made until they were down big to Minnesota late in the game. Not particularly proactive.
     
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  32. td75

    td75 All-American
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    At this point, it's very fair to ask if Penix should have been the starter from game one. Knowing what we know now, the Ramsey led Hoosiers only won 5 games.

    Would the Michael Penix led Hoosiers won 6 games and made it to Nashville? It's a fair question. I don't think Penix starts the opening game in 2019, Allen is stubborn.
     
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  33. Hoosiersfan2018

    Hoosiersfan2018 Newcomer
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    How would you guys feel if Matt Canada came back as OC? He's out of a job at Maryland. Honestly, being at the Maryland game I was very impressed with how they ran the offense. They had some big boys creating great lanes for their RB. We got Scott and presumably Sampson coming in. Imagine we get some impressive big boys we could get some real running attacks going. I will also say that I was impressed with how many different ways and looks they had for the same type of play. The way they were able to stress our defense out by making last min. shifts to cause confusion. I would hope that we at least try to reach out to him and gauge interest. Sadly, just see debord still being here costing us a good hire.
     
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  34. Palmbeachhoosier

    Palmbeachhoosier Sophomore
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    Most plays are designed to to get 4 yards ... 3 times 4 = 12 yards which is a first down.
     
  35. Hoosiersfan2018

    Hoosiersfan2018 Newcomer
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    Think he was meaning for most of the season the lack of stretching the field with more medium to longer passes. Seemed when we were in 3&9 we'd still throw the shallow crossing routes or run a bible screen. I think that's what he was meaning.
     
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  36. Indianaftw

    Indianaftw Junior
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    No on Matt Canada...We would try and go from a total passing attack to a run, run, run attack.

    I think someone else needs to call plays. I like DeBords offense its just the play calling especially second half play calling. In the purdue game Stevie was ripping that D apart and so was Ramsey but we kept passing.

    If we had some damn speed at WR DeBords offense could be terrific. We catch the ball in space but the YAC sucks!

    I guess there is no glaring coach EXCEPT special teams that I would want replaced. Keeping the staff together with Ramsey becoming a 3rd year QB and Penix with 2 years we could do alot of damage.

    The thing that needs most improved has to be the defensive side of the ball IMO and with the reps and depth our youth got last year I expect a BIG turnaround!

    Well see the fuse is getting shorter but not sure how much the higher ups at IU give a sh!t about football. Too Bad!
     
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  37. td75

    td75 All-American
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    Canada would probably be an upgrade over Debord. What bugs me about Debord is that Tom Allen had to basically beg him to stretch the field. He finally listened and guess what, it worked! It didn't happen until the Minnesota game, which is baloney.

    I just don't think Debord is ready to call it a day. He's only in his early 60s and makes a whole bunch of salary.
     
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  38. td75

    td75 All-American
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    The YAC sucks in large part because Peyton lacks ball velocity. Go and watch the Penn State game and compare the ball velocities of Penix and Ramsey. If Penix gets to start next year, I PROMISE you, the YAC will improve.
     
  39. Palmbeachhoosier

    Palmbeachhoosier Sophomore
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    Do you really believe a head coach has to beg s coach to do anything? Pretty sure if the bosssays I think you should do this then that it what we are going to do.
     
  40. td75

    td75 All-American
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    It came off that way in one of the interviews. You're certainly correct, but Allen is so green on that side of the ball, it's plausible.
     

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