Is CTA's defensive ego killing the offense

[Chriselli]

CTA's obsession with having a top 25 defense is severely hamstringing the offense. It was clear that Lagow could only have helped last week. Ramsey is worse than Diamont right now. Why not run the wildcat? Why not risk an interception by throwing the ball deep to Cobbs?

As mentioned by Zach Osterman today, we only return two defensive starters but everyone on offense. How bad will next year be with this offensive staff and our whole defense gone? The ghost of Greg Frey will haunt this program for many years.

 

[RBB89]

CTA's obsession with having a top 25 defense is severely hamstringing the offense. It was clear that Lagow could only have helped last week. Ramsey is worse than Diamont right now. Why not run the wildcat? Why not risk an interception by throwing the ball deep to Cobbs?

As mentioned by Zach Osterman today, we only return two defensive starters but everyone on offense. How bad will next year be with this offensive staff and our whole defense gone? The ghost of Greg Frey will haunt this program for many years.

Are you high?

The offensive line had the exact same problems last year with Greg Frey. In addition, Michigan fans are already ready to run him out of town. And no, I’m not saying he’s not a good coach, but what I am saying is that I have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.

We currently have the 20th ranked team defense in the nation. Special teams is 8th. These are bad things? The offense has plenty of issues, but they are the same issues we had last year with Wilson. We were 88th in scoring offense last year and had the worst red zone offense in the nation last year. The key issue in all of this is the offensive line. They lack depth and athleticism compared to that 2015 unit, and the staff is trying to address this. We have two highly rated tackles coming in next year. But the offensive issues started last year so again, I have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.

Allen pretty much lets MD run the offense. While I haven’t liked all of his play calls in the red zone, the guy put up huge numbers at Tennessee the past two years. I’m not really sure how you’ve managed to turn having a good defense into a negative, but by God you found a way. TA has now turned around, drastically, defenses at multiple schools with marginal talent levels, so I tend not to worry about who’s coming back next year considering he’s able to create really good defenses with three star talent. He knows how to coach and he has a good system.

In addition, in no way shape or form is Ramsey worse than than ZD. That’s ludicrous and again, are you high? Do you watch the games? ZD never came anywhere close to leading drives like against Michigan or that Virginia performance. I mean, do you remember Zander’s first performance against Michigan State? We lost like 52-6. And that was with Tevin Coleman. Ramsey just went 22-34 and didn’t turn the ball over. MSU and UM have top 10 defenses. He is not the issue. I like RL, but he is a TO machine.

This is one of the most bizarre posts I’ve read in a while.

 

[RBB89]

“CTA's obsession with having a top 25 defense is severely hamstringing the offense.”

I mean, seriously, WTF?

 

[JohnsyRick]

CTA's obsession with having a top 25 defense is severely hamstringing the offense. It was clear that Lagow could only have helped last week. Ramsey is worse than Diamont right now. Why not run the wildcat? Why not risk an interception by throwing the ball deep to Cobbs?

As mentioned by Zach Osterman today, we only return two defensive starters but everyone on offense. How bad will next year be with this offensive staff and our whole defense gone? The ghost of Greg Frey will haunt this program for many years.

First off, the defense should be fine upfront and in the backend next year, I do have concerns about replacing Scales and Covington, they are good.
As far as the offense, CKW always said you can only run what you can block, right now, that isn’t much. You can’t throw deep to Cobbs against OSU, PSU, UM and MSU because you can’t protect well enough and Simmie doesn’t get separation. If you recall, they did try to go deep to JShun at MSU, and a good throw would have been 6. I would like to see JShun get more snaps as I think he could provide a spark from the slot.
As for the OL, what is there now is on Frey and Wilson, they didn’t recruit well enough the last couple of years. Combine that with a couple transfers that flamed out (Gardner and Herron) and we have what we have. We will not be getting 4 and 5 star OL anytime soon, so we have to recruit well and develop. As for Frey, liked him very much, but our current mess is mostly on him, and UM fans are not enamored with him right now either.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

“CTA's obsession with having a top 25 defense is severely hamstringing the offense.”

I mean, seriously, WTF?

Sigh....."forgive them father for they know not what they do."

IU fans complaining about an outstanding defense takes the cake!

Severely hamstringing the offense?
Jeez....I've heard it all now.

 

[turney333]

Are you high?

The offensive line had the exact same problems last year with Greg Frey. In addition, Michigan fans are already ready to run him out of town. And no, I’m not saying he’s not a good coach, but what I am saying is that I have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.

We currently have the 20th ranked team defense in the nation. Special teams is 8th. These are bad things? The offense has plenty of issues, but they are the same issues we had last year with Wilson. We were 88th in scoring offense last year and had the worst red zone offense in the nation last year. The key issue in all of this is the offensive line. They lack depth and athleticism compared to that 2015 unit, and the staff is trying to address this. We have two highly rated tackles coming in next year. But the offensive issues started last year so again, I have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.

Allen pretty much lets MD run the offense. While I haven’t liked all of his play calls in the red zone, the guy put up huge numbers at Tennessee the past two years. I’m not really sure how you’ve managed to turn having a good defense into a negative, but by God you found a way. TA has now turned around, drastically, defenses at multiple schools with marginal talent levels, so I tend not to worry about who’s coming back next year considering he’s able to create really good defenses with three star talent. He knows how to coach and he has a good system.

In addition, in no way shape or form is Ramsey worse than than ZD. That’s ludicrous and again, are you high? Do you watch the games? ZD never came anywhere close to leading drives like against Michigan or that Virginia performance. I mean, do you remember Zander’s first performance against Michigan State? We lost like 52-6. And that was with Tevin Coleman. Ramsey just went 22-34 and didn’t turn the ball over. MSU and UM have top 10 defenses. He is not the issue. I like RL, but he is a TO machine.

This is one of the most bizarre posts I’ve read in a while.

Diamont had 11 yards passing (5 for 15) in that game against MSU. That's 0.7 yards per attempt.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Sigh....."forgive them father for they know not what they do."

IU fans complaining about an outstanding defense takes the cake!

Severely hamstringing the offense?
Jeez....I've heard it all now.

Seriously...no way you can have a good offense if you have a good defense...no way.

 

[IndyIUFan66]

That is funny complaining about an IU strong defense! If only Randle El had had this defense, or Sudfeld & crew.

I know the D is losing a lot of contributors, but I do believe the young talent coming in may actually be better athletically, but will be potentially a lot of youth. But the DB's next year will have a lot of returning talent. I also agree Allen's a D-man and the players buying into it for 2 yrs now is creating a real system.

Having a great D consistently will allow for the offense to catch up soon. It really starts with the O-line, as even now think we have WR's who can make plays if QB has (had) the time. Next season, if Oline is all year older, bigger and maybe a FR can compete, we'll have most WR's back playing now and Hale/Westbrook returning, and 2-3 FR coming in who look like they can play. Ellison and 1-2 FR coming in. And a lot of good TE talent to replace Thomas, who I love, but he too has struggled with injuries this year.

Bullish!

 

[fieldjock]

One word is NO. It's on the shoulders of the offensive coaching staff to get better. After watching the last few weeks we aren't using our weapons enough. We aren't in position to hand off up the middle and out muscle at the line yet. How many times last week did we throw the ball on first down? 2? You have to mix things up or we are sitting ducks. TA needs to consult outside help if MD can't come up with a better plan than what we are seeing. Very frustrating because the D is giving a winning effort.

 

[IUfbfan67]

I don't think that gentleman was high. I don't think he complained about having a good defense. He may have been referring to the fact that an offense that possesses the ball for a long time helps the defense by getting rested and also if we have the ball no one can run stats up on our defense Trouble with that is we are not a very good possession offense with all the three and outs that we have. And it is a pretty well accepted fact that if you are going to win the game you have to out score the other team.

I was never impressed with Xander diamont as a Big Ten quarterback he was 5 foot 10 inches,165 pounds soaking wet and he didn't have a strong arm. He seemed to be mostly about Xander, not knowing the playbook his first year because he never bothered to study it when he was taken by surprise and had to go in and play, running the ball in against Purdue instead of throwing it to the senior tight end the play was designed for and who was wide open on the play. He also seemed to like the camera a little too much and his cigars in the locker room even when he was told not to smoke them in there. Not the kind of teammate I would like on my team but that's all water over the dam now.

And I think it is quite possible to disagree with another poster's point of view without questioning his sobriety or insulting his intelligence. If you want this board to be civil, keep it civil yourself.

 

[cshartle123]

Tom Allen isn't using this game strategy to protect his defensive stats. He is trying to win games. The defense is better than the offense, so you try to mold your team around that. He wants to give the defense the best chance to make game changing plays. The effectiveness of this strategy will become more evident against weaker opponents. Save this question for next year when the offense is likely going to be better than the defense.

 

[Hoosiers Rising]

I think all these 3 and outs are tiring the offense!

 

[turney333]

I don't think that gentleman was high. I don't think he complained about having a good defense. He may have been referring to the fact that an offense that possesses the ball for a long time helps the defense by getting rested and also if we have the ball no one can run stats up on our defense Trouble with that is we are not a very good possession offense with all the three and outs that we have. And it is a pretty well accepted fact that if you are going to win the game you have to out score the other team.

I was never impressed with Xander diamont as a Big Ten quarterback he was 5 foot 10 inches,165 pounds soaking wet and he didn't have a strong arm. He seemed to be mostly about Xander, not knowing the playbook his first year because he never bothered to study it when he was taken by surprise and had to go in and play, running the ball in against Purdue instead of throwing it to the senior tight end the play was designed for and who was wide open on the play. He also seemed to like the camera a little too much and his cigars in the locker room even when he was told not to smoke them in there. Not the kind of teammate I would like on my team but that's all water over the dam now.

And I think it is quite possible to disagree with another poster's point of view without questioning his sobriety or insulting his intelligence. If you want this board to be civil, keep it civil yourself.

Though the idea that Allen is trying to dictate the offense to help the defense is pretty readily disputed by the fact that offense tries to go uptempo whenever possible

 

[RBB89]

I don't think that gentleman was high. I don't think he complained about having a good defense. He may have been referring to the fact that an offense that possesses the ball for a long time helps the defense by getting rested and also if we have the ball no one can run stats up on our defense Trouble with that is we are not a very good possession offense with all the three and outs that we have. And it is a pretty well accepted fact that if you are going to win the game you have to out score the other team.

I was never impressed with Xander diamont as a Big Ten quarterback he was 5 foot 10 inches,165 pounds soaking wet and he didn't have a strong arm. He seemed to be mostly about Xander, not knowing the playbook his first year because he never bothered to study it when he was taken by surprise and had to go in and play, running the ball in against Purdue instead of throwing it to the senior tight end the play was designed for and who was wide open on the play. He also seemed to like the camera a little too much and his cigars in the locker room even when he was told not to smoke them in there. Not the kind of teammate I would like on my team but that's all water over the dam now.

And I think it is quite possible to disagree with another poster's point of view without questioning his sobriety or insulting his intelligence. If you want this board to be civil, keep it civil yourself.

He literally said having a good defense is harming the offense.

That’s not worth taking seriously.

 

[wakeman26]

The original question makes no sense, but I think it is fair to wonder if he is too confident in his defense and allows that to impact the game.

I will be clear, I have absolutely no idea if this is the case and am not basing this on any known facts. But part of me wonders if due to his high confidence he told Debord on the one RZ possession, "whatever you do, don't turn it over. Take the FG and we will stop them on defense." So Debord calls 3 runs, kicks the FG, defense doesn't hold up, and we all blame Debord.

 

[cshartle123]

The original question makes no sense, but I think it is fair to wonder if he is too confident in his defense and allows that to impact the game.

I will be clear, I have absolutely no idea if this is the case and am not basing this on any known facts. But part of me wonders if due to his high confidence he told Debord on the one RZ possession, "whatever you do, don't turn it over. Take the FG and we will stop them on defense." So Debord calls 3 runs, kicks the FG, defense doesn't hold up, and we all blame Debord.

Is this a problem? You have an unproven freshman QB on the road against a ranked opponent. With the way the defense was playing, ball security was the priority.

 

[I loved lucys]

CTA's obsession with having a top 25 defense is severely hamstringing the offense. It was clear that Lagow could only have helped last week. Ramsey is worse than Diamont right now. Why not run the wildcat? Why not risk an interception by throwing the ball deep to Cobbs?

As mentioned by Zach Osterman today, we only return two defensive starters but everyone on offense. How bad will next year be with this offensive staff and our whole defense gone? The ghost of Greg Frey will haunt this program for many years.

I would never complain about having a good defense, but I've never believed a head coach turning over one side of the ball to his coordinator, as Wilson did and as Allen is doing, will produce long term, consistently good results for the program. My hope is that Allen learns the lesson that Wilson struggled with and chooses to actively coach the entire team, rather than just part of it.

 

[wakeman26]

Is this a problem? You have an unproven freshman QB on the road against a ranked opponent. With the way the defense was playing, ball security was the priority.

Not necessarily a problem, but assuming it is true, clarifies two things in my mind:

1. The blame on Debord and his playcalling is slightly misplaced as CTA is culpable as well.
2. We were playing not to lose instead of playing to win. We saw it with some Wilson teams where they just shut it down in the 2nd half if they had any sort of lead whatsoever and nearly every time we let the game slip. When stuff is working, I am a fan of stepping on the accelerator. Settling for a FG did make it harder to lose, but a TD there probably means we win. Have to play to win.

 

[td75]

It seems iu has fallen into the above scenario that Lucy describes. Wilson didn't know his a$$ hole from a hole in the ground when it came to defense...he was lost. Allen knows very little about a good offense, it's Wilson in reverse order.

Fred Glass has proven to me that he's ok with his head coach only being responsible for one side of the ball. See Wilson-offense and Allen-defense. It can only work if iu can hire a super duper OC to marry with Coach Allen.

 

[fpeaugh]

Having a good defense this year isn't causing the dreadful offense. However, having a coach who focuses primarily on defense like CTA does will have negative effects on the offense long term. It's an identity thing. It's going to be hard for IU to recruit well to both.

For example, several offensive players came to play for Wilson because of his style and reputation. Allen will get the same with defensive players. But all else equal it will be tougher (not impossible just tougher) for Allen to recruit playmakers into a program that wins games by controlling the clock and winning low scoring games. Doesn't mean it's better or worse, but IU just made a total 180 when it comes to program identity.

 

[JohnsyRick]

It seems iu has fallen into the above scenario that Lucy describes. Wilson didn't know his a$$ hole from a hole in the ground when it came to defense...he was lost. Allen knows very little about a good offense, it's Wilson in reverse order.

Fred Glass has proven to me that he's ok with his head coach only being responsible for one side of the ball. See Wilson-offense and Allen-defense. It can only work if iu can hire a super duper OC to marry with Coach Allen.

How about we wait and see a couple years of development and recruiting cycles. Frey and Wilson didn’t leave any experienced or particularly talented OL, pretty hard to have a good offense with a marginal OL.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

It seems iu has fallen into the above scenario that Lucy describes. Wilson didn't know his a$$ hole from a hole in the ground when it came to defense...he was lost. Allen knows very little about a good offense, it's Wilson in reverse order.

Fred Glass has proven to me that he's ok with his head coach only being responsible for one side of the ball. See Wilson-offense and Allen-defense. It can only work if iu can hire a super duper OC to marry with Coach Allen.

You mean re-marry...

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Having a good defense this year isn't causing the dreadful offense. However, having a coach who focuses primarily on defense like CTA does will have negative effects on the offense long term. It's an identity thing. It's going to be hard for IU to recruit well to both.

For example, several offensive players came to play for Wilson because of his style and reputation. Allen will get the same with defensive players. But all else equal it will be tougher (not impossible just tougher) for Allen to recruit playmakers into a program that wins games by controlling the clock and winning low scoring games. Doesn't mean it's better or worse, but IU just made a total 180 when it comes to program identity.

This is incorrect.

Several offensive players didn't "come to play for Wilson because of his style and reputation." He got a ton out of his 2 and 3 star guys there. Name me one 4-star guy on the offensive side of the ball that contributed? He couldn't even land the all-important QB in his recruiting. This notion is patently false. His level of offensive recruiting was no better than what you see right now. I'll grant you he developed some guys but he did NOT have a load of high end kids knocking on his door to play offense for him.

Hell, one of our most dependable WRs was Paige, a walk-on. He developed kids there. He didn't have a huge talent pool lining up around the block.

 

[RBB89]

This is incorrect.

Several offensive players didn't "come to play for Wilson because of his style and reputation." He got a ton out of his 2 and 3 star guys there. Name me one 4-star guy on the offensive side of the ball that contributed? He couldn't even land the all-important QB in his recruiting. This notion is patently false. His level of offensive recruiting was no better than what you see right now. I'll grant you he developed some guys but he did NOT have a load of high end kids knocking on his door to play offense for him.

Hell, one of our most dependable WRs was Paige, a walk-on. He developed kids there. He didn't have a huge talent pool lining up around the block.

Yeah in all honesty, his recruiting peaked about four years ago and then dropped way off after. And to his credit, he developed a lot of guys like you said. But TA is doing the same thing with the defense. And this class looks to be the best or second best we’ve had in about 20 years.

 

[turney333]

This is incorrect.

Several offensive players didn't "come to play for Wilson because of his style and reputation." He got a ton out of his 2 and 3 star guys there. Name me one 4-star guy on the offensive side of the ball that contributed? He couldn't even land the all-important QB in his recruiting. This notion is patently false. His level of offensive recruiting was no better than what you see right now. I'll grant you he developed some guys but he did NOT have a load of high end kids knocking on his door to play offense for him.

Hell, one of our most dependable WRs was Paige, a walk-on. He developed kids there. He didn't have a huge talent pool lining up around the block.

Also, after Spriggs and Feeney, who weren't all that highly regarded as recruits, the next best o-lineman that played during the Wilson years was Rahrig, also a walkon. As we saw some last year (especially when Feeney was out), the quality OL play we generally became accustomed to under Wilson/Frey was not a guarantee, and there was a healthy amount of luck involved in terms of personnel when things were good.

 

[rcaulfie]

CTA's obsession with having a top 25 defense is severely hamstringing the offense. It was clear that Lagow could only have helped last week. Ramsey is worse than Diamont right now. Why not run the wildcat? Why not risk an interception by throwing the ball deep to Cobbs?

As mentioned by Zach Osterman today, we only return two defensive starters but everyone on offense. How bad will next year be with this offensive staff and our whole defense gone? The ghost of Greg Frey will haunt this program for many years.

This is where I'm the most disappointed with, is the fact this was the year for us as I saw it due to the experience in our defense. Anyone saying we will be fine next year, is crazy. We lose way too much. The biggest will be Hoff, Scales, Covington, Fant (....although with Riggins, Brown and the 2 freshman, I'm not as worried about Fant). I agree with Lagow (nobody else does on here, however) - I would have at least liked to have seen him get a shot. We needed something, and what we were doing was not working, so why not? Our OL is bad, so maybe Lagow would have done worse. But I think he deserved a few series, especially since Ramsey always got some time in when Lagow was the starter. But to say "the ghost of Greg Frey will haunt this program".....that is not why we are bad. I mean, if he was so great, why do we not have studs to replace the guys we have lost the last couple of years? It's not like they all transferred when he left. The problem is, we lost Feeney....Rogers and Bailey (while not as vital as Feeney, they started because they were better than their backups, which are playing now). And add the injuries we have this year....the OL is atrocious.

And lastly - on your subject line....that's kind of a moronic statement. "CTA's defensive ego"? You say it like it's a bad thing that he wants to have a top 25 defense. I don't get that at all....wanting a successful defense has ZERO to do with killing our offense.

 

[MrBing]

CTA's obsession with having a top 25 defense is severely hamstringing the offense. It was clear that Lagow could only have helped last week. Ramsey is worse than Diamont right now. Why not run the wildcat? Why not risk an interception by throwing the ball deep to Cobbs?

As mentioned by Zach Osterman today, we only return two defensive starters but everyone on offense. How bad will next year be with this offensive staff and our whole defense gone? The ghost of Greg Frey will haunt this program for many years.

You're complaining about the defense? Sorry but I consider that a crazy. Also Diamont was a gutty kid but he was not close to being as good as Ramsey is right now. Ramsey is our best option at QB now and he's not a bad option at all.

 

[JohnsyRick]

Having a good defense this year isn't causing the dreadful offense. However, having a coach who focuses primarily on defense like CTA does will have negative effects on the offense long term. It's an identity thing. It's going to be hard for IU to recruit well to both.

For example, several offensive players came to play for Wilson because of his style and reputation. Allen will get the same with defensive players. But all else equal it will be tougher (not impossible just tougher) for Allen to recruit playmakers into a program that wins games by controlling the clock and winning low scoring games. Doesn't mean it's better or worse, but IU just made a total 180 when it comes to program identity.

This is where I'm the most disappointed with, is the fact this was the year for us as I saw it due to the experience in our defense. Anyone saying we will be fine next year, is crazy. We lose way too much. The biggest will be Hoff, Scales, Covington, Fant (....although with Riggins, Brown and the 2 freshman, I'm not as worried about Fant). I agree with Lagow (nobody else does on here, however) - I would have at least liked to have seen him get a shot. We needed something, and what we were doing was not working, so why not? Our OL is bad, so maybe Lagow would have done worse. But I think he deserved a few series, especially since Ramsey always got some time in when Lagow was the starter. But to say "the ghost of Greg Frey will haunt this program".....that is not why we are bad. I mean, if he was so great, why do we not have studs to replace the guys we have lost the last couple of years? It's not like they all transferred when he left. The problem is, we lost Feeney....Rogers and Bailey (while not as vital as Feeney, they started because they were better than their backups, which are playing now). And add the injuries we have this year....the OL is atrocious.

And lastly - on your subject line....that's kind of a moronic statement. "CTA's defensive ego"? You say it like it's a bad thing that he wants to have a top 25 defense. I don't get that at all....wanting a successful defense has ZERO to do with killing our offense.

I don’t think it is “crazy” to think our defense will be fine next year. You mentioned losing Hoff, love him, but Barwick and Harris should man that area just fine. We have Robinson back, and J. Johnson and Minor have played reasonably well as youngsters. Don’t forget we will also get Sykes back next year who was our best pass rusher. On the backend , Ball Brown , Riggins, Crawford, to name a few, and we get Fitzgerald back next year who the staff is very high on. There are many others, look at the roster, including newbies we haven’t seen yet. I am concerned about replacing Scales and Covington, but my bet is we find adequate replacements. The majority of the D should have experience.

 

[turney333]

I don’t think it is “crazy” to think our defense will be fine next year. You mentioned losing Hoff, love him, but Barwick and Harris should man that area just fine. We have Robinson back, and J. Johnson and Minor have played reasonably well as youngsters. Don’t forget we will also get Sykes back next year who was our best pass rusher. On the backend , Ball Brown , Riggins, Crawford, to name a few, and we get Fitzgerald back next year who the staff is very high on. There are many others, look at the roster, including newbies we haven’t seen yet. I am concerned about replacing Scales and Covington, but my bet is we find adequate replacements. The majority of the D should have experience.

Also, saying that things will be "fine" still leaves room that there might be SOME drop off. I don't think you'll find anyone that will say that we will just as good or better than we are this year. I think the people that are optimistic about next years defense are just of the mind that things won't fall that far. My guess is that we will be somewhat comparable to the 2016 defense

 

[JohnsyRick]

Also, saying that things will be "fine" still leaves room that there might be SOME drop off. I don't think you'll find anyone that will say that we will just as good or better than we are this year. I think the people that are optimistic about next years defense are just of the mind that things won't fall that far. My guess is that we will be somewhat comparable to the 2016 defense

Yup, I was responding to the post that said anyone who thinks we will be “fine” next year is crazy. I don’t think so, will/could there be some drop off , sure. As I said, replacing Scales and Covington will be a tall order, that said, whose to say someone doesn’t step up as Covington has this year ? I actually think we will be better than this year on the DL and , just as good if not better, in the secondary. jmo.

 

[fpeaugh]

This is incorrect.

Several offensive players didn't "come to play for Wilson because of his style and reputation." He got a ton out of his 2 and 3 star guys there. Name me one 4-star guy on the offensive side of the ball that contributed? He couldn't even land the all-important QB in his recruiting. This notion is patently false. His level of offensive recruiting was no better than what you see right now. I'll grant you he developed some guys but he did NOT have a load of high end kids knocking on his door to play offense for him.

Hell, one of our most dependable WRs was Paige, a walk-on. He developed kids there. He didn't have a huge talent pool lining up around the block.

How about Sudfeld? Did he not come to play for Wilson? What about Howard when he transferred? You think he just threw a dart at a map and chose IU? Wilson wasn't loading up on 4 star talent on offense but he got several 3 star players with solid offers. It's not going to kill you to give the guy a little credit.

 

[YOTHN]

CTA's obsession with having a top 25 defense is severely hamstringing the offense.

I don't think you fully understand how this works. The reason Lagow isn't in there is because he creates too many turnovers. With a defense like ours, your number one mission on offense is NOT to create turnovers. Lagow would've likely thrown us into an early deficit due to field position advantage in MSU's favor. If Nate Sudfeld was on the team we very easily could be playing for a B1G championship game because he was productive and not turnover prone. The problem is we don't have Nate and with what we do have, conservative is the game. I am frustrated with losing too but we can't lose sight of where we came from. CTA is playing to his teams strengths and utilizing the best method to win games. It worked for 3.5 quarters.

I think the ultra conservative approach late hurts us but not as much as a TO would've. We tend to get quick 3 and out's late in the games when we're conservative and that gives our defense no breaks late. I wouldn't mind using the tactics everyone always used against us and having an OL or WR go down with an "injury" late in a the game causing a long game delay to help give our D more rest when we're being ultra conservative.

 

[turney333]

How about Sudfeld? Did he not come to play for Wilson? What about Howard when he transferred? You think he just threw a dart at a map and chose IU? Wilson wasn't loading up on 4 star talent on offense but he got several 3 star players with solid offers. It's not going to kill you to give the guy a little credit.

Ronnie Walker is more highly regarded/recruited than Sudfeld.

Aiden Raftery is more highly regarded/recruited than any OL guy that Wilson recruited with the exception of maybe Cronk.

No one is saying that Wilson recruited poorly, just not demonstratively better than what Allen has been recruiting on offense

 

[RBB89]

Ronnie Walker is more highly regarded/recruited than Sudfeld.

Aiden Raftery is more highly regarded/recruited than any OL guy that Wilson recruited with the exception of maybe Cronk.

No one is saying that Wilson recruited poorly, just not demonstratively better than what Allen has been recruiting on offense

This. And I mean, one can easily go look and compare prospects, but I suspect he won’t.

 

[JohnsyRick]

How about Sudfeld? Did he not come to play for Wilson? What about Howard when he transferred? You think he just threw a dart at a map and chose IU? Wilson wasn't loading up on 4 star talent on offense but he got several 3 star players with solid offers. It's not going to kill you to give the guy a little credit.

Not really, Nate followed Littrell to IU after a coaching change at Arizona, to say he came for Wilson isn’t accurate. Look, CKW improved recruiting, no doubt, but he recruited guys like Scales and Fant too. To insinuate that we will not be able to recruit well offensively under CTA is false.

 

[cshartle123]

Having a good defense this year isn't causing the dreadful offense. However, having a coach who focuses primarily on defense like CTA does will have negative effects on the offense long term. It's an identity thing. It's going to be hard for IU to recruit well to both.

For example, several offensive players came to play for Wilson because of his style and reputation. Allen will get the same with defensive players. But all else equal it will be tougher (not impossible just tougher) for Allen to recruit playmakers into a program that wins games by controlling the clock and winning low scoring games. Doesn't mean it's better or worse, but IU just made a total 180 when it comes to program identity.

I understand the line of thinking here, but it assumes that Kevin Wilson and Tom Allen have equivalent recruiting ability from different sides of the ball. It’s possible that Tom Allen is better than Wilson at recruiting defense and offense. I haven’t seen an entire season or an entire recruiting class from Tom Allen yet, so I’m not ready to take a position on the matter.

 

[lorenaimee]

CTA's obsession with having a top 25 defense is severely hamstringing the offense. It was clear that Lagow could only have helped last week. Ramsey is worse than Diamont right now. Why not run the wildcat? Why not risk an interception by throwing the ball deep to Cobbs?

As mentioned by Zach Osterman today, we only return two defensive starters but everyone on offense. How bad will next year be with this offensive staff and our whole defense gone? The ghost of Greg Frey will haunt this program for many years.

NO!!

 

[fpeaugh]

Not really, Nate followed Littrell to IU after a coaching change at Arizona, to say he came for Wilson isn’t accurate. Look, CKW improved recruiting, no doubt, but he recruited guys like Scales and Fant too. To insinuate that we will not be able to recruit well offensively under CTA is false.

That's absolutely not what I was saying. I'm saying it's harder to recruit offensive players into a defensively minded program than it is to an offensively minded one. And vice versa. Not good or bad but I believe it's more challenging for offense. Easier for defense. We'll see if that's true going forward. But that's my suspicion. If I'm a playmaker on offense I'd rather go to a team that's spreading it out scoring 40 ppg than a team that's grinding out wins in the 20s...all else equal.

 

[fpeaugh]

I understand the line of thinking here, but it assumes that Kevin Wilson and Tom Allen have equivalent recruiting ability from different sides of the ball. It’s possible that Tom Allen is better than Wilson at recruiting defense and offense. I haven’t seen an entire season or an entire recruiting class from Tom Allen yet, so I’m not ready to take a position on the matter.

That's fair. Way too early to tell. I hope you're right. Wilson had a much more established track record on offense than Allen does on defense but that doesn't mean Allen can't catch up. Lots can and will change going forward.

 

[turney333]

That's absolutely not what I was saying. I'm saying it's harder to recruit offensive players into a defensively minded program than it is to an offensively minded one. And vice versa. Not good or bad but I believe it's more challenging for offense. Easier for defense. We'll see if that's true going forward. But that's my suspicion. If I'm a playmaker on offense I'd rather go to a team that's spreading it out scoring 40 ppg than a team that's grinding out wins in the 20s...all else equal.

But again, for the most part, Wilson seemed to do better at pulling in highly regarded players on defense than offense. A lot did not pan out for a variety reasons (Allen, Kenney, Antonio Marshall) or did live up to their rating (Shaw). Even still, Fant, Latham, and Scales are probably 3 of the highest regarded Wilson recruits that actually did become significant contributors