International students

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I guess I would ask this, I am 41 and have voted Republican my entire life and my entire life I have heard your same arguments used to shut down these conversations. I have used them myself. So what do you think is being helped by bringing in people? "We need the jobs filled and the skills to do them and these are the only people available." Is that true, or are employers demanding degrees for jobs that don't need them? Setting up financial barriers to employment. Skills? Maybe it is because employers will not hire and train people to do the job. Hey, instead of bringing in foreign labor or forcing you to pay to learn that trade, I am going to hire you and pay you while you get on the job training.

Employers are looking at their local pool of applicants and saying, this is not ideal or optimal. There is an obvious cost for them to "sponsor" someone and it's a hassle, so let's not pretend like that is what employers prefer.

There are many reasons people can be resistant to career changes. It cost me over $20k to go back to school for a masters several years ago so I could do just that. We expect a coal miner to go into that kind of debt to switch to a $40k/yr job or else we bring on the Indians and Chinese. Corporate America expects all this shit from Americans and doesn't want to give anything back. They already have one of the most worked and under benefitted set of employees in the developed world and that still is not enough.

This is a horrendous attempt at an analogy. Retraining people does not mean they need a Master's degree or that they should go into debt. I've always been a proponent of using Unemployment to fund training/retraining of workers.

So great that Wall Street does well, that is awesome, my retirement thanks it. You know what would be more awesome for the country though? Having a bunch of these people that are embittered about systemic racism actually being offered a way into the system. Having a job does that. And yes, it does start at home, but you know what helps set up functional homes? Money to support them. And not a hand out, but something they truly worked for. The ownership culture creates conservativish people IMO.

Again, another terrible conclusion you reach. We had the lowest unemployment in history, every store and restaurant was hiring (I still see hiring signs). If people didn't find a job it's because they didn't put in effort or display basic human character traits that are the minimum requirement to be employed.

 

[hoot1]

Couple of things, first how effective has virtual education been?

Secondly, China has already been graduating more engineers than the U.S.. How many of the students will end up Chinese universities.

Finally, isn't the pandemic and the use of virtual education temporary? The loss of students going elsewhere could be permanent. Then again, there are those who say, "Good riddance".

 

[Spartans9312]

International students are being told if their university goes online only, they must leave. That is potentially tens (hundreds) of millions of dollars sucked right out of the US economy because foreigners = bad.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/im...IQv_ZiDP2cIzjYl2Rm_jCB63S-CxUiSl8A5fQV1ybt4Kk

It will also force foreign students abroad to attend classes in-person if any are offered or terminate the validity of their student status at their U.S. universities. This is dumb.
U.S. universities have condemned the policy as endangering their students and the schools' financial wellbeing.

 

[UncleMark]

Trump Administration Rescinds Rule On Foreign Students

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-foreign-students-online-classes_n_5f0e0546c5b63b8fc10f86f4

BOSTON (AP) — Facing eight federal lawsuits and opposition from hundreds of universities, the Trump administration on Tuesday rescinded a rule that would have required international students to transfer or leave the country if their schools held classes entirely online because of the pandemic.

The decision was announced at the start of a hearing in a federal lawsuit in Boston brought by Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. U.S. District Judge Allison Burroughs said federal immigration authorities agreed to pull the July 6 directive and “return to the status quo.”​

 

[toastedbread]

Employers are looking at their local pool of applicants and saying, this is not ideal or optimal. There is an obvious cost for them to "sponsor" someone and it's a hassle, so let's not pretend like that is what employers prefer.

Patently false. OPT is a wall st scheme. No FICA taxes. H1bs are indentured servants paid below median wages. The entire labor market of this country is designed at the behest or wall st. Wall st wants a limitless supply of labor. Tech wages are stagnanting. Tennessee valley authority CEO who makes 8 mil per year should be tried as a traitor. Insourcing H1Bs and having Americans train them to lower wages. Sickening. This is happening all over the country.

This admin has had 4 years to address these abuses and does nothing. Trump is all lip service. Its a vanity project. He wants approval from the elites. The America last administration. This is a truly grotesque and rigged economy.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Patently false. OPT is a wall st scheme. No FICA taxes. H1bs are indentured servants paid below median wages. The entire labor market of this country is designed at the behest or wall st. Wall st wants a limitless supply of labor. Tech wages are stagnanting. Tennessee valley authority CEO who makes 8 mil per year should be tried as a traitor. Insourcing H1Bs and having Americans train them to lower wages. Sickening. This is happening all over the country.

This admin has had 4 years to address these abuses and does nothing. Trump is all lip service. Its a vanity project. He wants approval from the elites. The America last administration. This is a truly grotesque and rigged economy.

Aren't you a huge proponent of immigration policies considering your fiance/wife was held up for months/years?

 

[toastedbread]

Aren't you a huge proponent of immigration policies considering your fiance/wife was held up for months/years?

No. Never been. I would grant expedited citizenship to DACA folks. Beyond that I would eliminate greencards on basis family with exception of spouse, minor children, fiance. I would move toward Australian model and instead provide long temporary resident non-working visas to virtually all family members. No reason not to boost tourist visas. With strict enforcement. I fully deplore racism and discrimination based on nationality.

I support high skilled immigration. High skilled being the key. Vast majority of immigration is about having a cheap labor supply for big biz. That's why tech wages are stalling. Truly high skilled folks should have greencard on arrival.

As for education, American students are unable to pursue graduate degrees because they are saddled with student debt from undergrad.

 

[Spartans9312]

International students are being told if their university goes online only, they must leave. That is potentially tens (hundreds) of millions of dollars sucked right out of the US economy because foreigners = bad.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/im...IQv_ZiDP2cIzjYl2Rm_jCB63S-CxUiSl8A5fQV1ybt4Kk

The rule has been revoked but according to the Harvard Dean "does not apply to our newly admitted international students who require F-1 sponsorship. At present, any incoming student who received a Form I-20 to begin their studies this fall will be unable to enter the U.S. in F-1 status as course instruction is fully remote."

 

[outside shooter]

yes, new students are staying home. New immigrant professionals are staying home.

14 of 39 1st year graduate students, where I am, staying home.

Fortunately, students who are already here but need visa status changes or renewals are now getting processed. One person in my group took a required leave of absence before paperwork was finished. It finally came though today and I could rehire her. Maybe it was faster since I had her working on COVID-19 research. She was without a paycheck for less than a month. It still sucked though.

I hired a Chinese woman last December and she is still trying to get here. No end in sight for her wait. Her husband already works in another lab here. But she can get her visa processed, because Trump.

 

[Spartans9312]

yes, new students are staying home. New immigrant professionals are staying home.

14 of 39 1st year graduate students, where I am, staying home.

Fortunately, students who are already here but need visa status changes or renewals are now getting processed. One person in my group took a required leave of absence before paperwork was finished. It finally came though today and I could rehire her. Maybe it was faster since I had her working on COVID-19 research. She was without a paycheck for less than a month. It still sucked though.

I hired a Chinese woman last December and she is still trying to get here. No end in sight for her wait. Her husband already works in another lab here. But she can get her visa processed, because Trump.

Yep, it creates needless challenges.
From Philadelphia Inquirer: "universities are left scrambling to concoct a plan for international students who will now have to find a way to keep up with instruction from several thousand miles away."