Week 1 overreactions for Ohio State and the rest of the Big Ten: College football Monday Madness
Looking back over a welcome first weekend back for college football.
Interesting takes on the Big Ten. Is Iowa the best team in the league? Should Penix get benched?
- Thread starter Rotonda Jim
- Start date
I find it very interesting that nobody has commented on this post. Perhaps it is because folks just assume it is praising Ohio State since the post comes from Cleveland. Well folks, if you did not read it, it does say that Iowa is the best team in the Big Ten. Does that change the minds of any of you who are writing off our Hoosiers?
Iowa would finish third or fourth in the east div.
Penix being benched right now is simply dumb.
Starting to beat a dead horse but I think Iowa's 34-6 win was more an indictment on IU's lack of preparedness/just downright awful and uninspiring performance than it is Iowa being a legitimate CFB playoff contender. Iowa left a ton to be desired offensively and IU played about as poorly as possible. Beat a good Iowa State team on the road next week and then we can start to have that discussion.
Penix deserves more than a half before there is serious discussion about a QB change, but IU's defense is too good and there's too much at stake this season to continue to ride a QB with accuracy and turnover issues if the problem continues to persist. I expect a bounce back game against Idaho with a full boat of confidence heading into the showdown with Cincy.
Penix deserves more than a half before there is serious discussion about a QB change, but IU's defense is too good and there's too much at stake this season to continue to ride a QB with accuracy and turnover issues if the problem continues to persist. I expect a bounce back game against Idaho with a full boat of confidence heading into the showdown with Cincy.
Our season may not go down the tubes but there is a lot to be worried about. Lot of self inflected issues.
Penix overthrew receivers, tossed it to one that wasn't even paying attention, granny passed to no one, forced a bad pass when there was plenty of daylight in front of him.
OL was lost at times. I noticed one play where 3 lineman were blocking 1 defender and letting the other just waltz right in.
Penix overthrew receivers, tossed it to one that wasn't even paying attention, granny passed to no one, forced a bad pass when there was plenty of daylight in front of him.
OL was lost at times. I noticed one play where 3 lineman were blocking 1 defender and letting the other just waltz right in.
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The article was trash......but i have some miscellaneous takes on the games I've seen so far:Week 1 overreactions for Ohio State and the rest of the Big Ten: College football Monday Madness
Looking back over a welcome first weekend back for college football.www.cleveland.com
--MD's QB (Tua's brother) played very well v. WV.....best he's every played. Their tall WR, Demus, is a stud. They are very good on O. On D, overall they looked very average, except they have a couple of very athletic DEs. Our game at MD will be no gimme. That said, I thought WV was the better team, and would probably win 6 or 7 times out of 10.
--RU is better, but don't be fooled by that 63-14 score. Temple self-destructed early and got back to 28-14, then lost their QB, who wasn't too good anyway......but his replacement was worse. RU's not as good as MD.
--MSU looked surprisingly good. They have some significant transfers in, including Kenneth Walker, a TB from Wake who ran for 264 yards and 4 TDs v. NW. I was surprised by how much speed MSU has overall.
--NW is really down....and lost their #1 TB in fall practice. It will be a long year for NW, Nebraska, and Illinois.
--There will be a QB controversy going forward at Michigan. True freshman McCarthy is tall and fast and extremely talented....much more that the starter McNamera, who is quite capable himself.
Its one game people, yikes. Ohio State lost to mediocre Purdue by 29pts in 2018 and that ended up being their only loss of the season. Went on to win the Rose Bowl. We lost by 30 to a good Iowa team on the road. The difference is it was in the middle of their season and this was our first game so we haven't seen anything that could offset that blow.
I get that it was incredibly disappointing and unexpected with the level of talent/depth on the roster but days like that can and do happen to anyone. Take a deep breath and give it time. This team is still who we thought they were.....but they're no better than any other good team that can take a bad L.
I get that it was incredibly disappointing and unexpected with the level of talent/depth on the roster but days like that can and do happen to anyone. Take a deep breath and give it time. This team is still who we thought they were.....but they're no better than any other good team that can take a bad L.
Then after covering Robby Hummel, he should understand how tough it is to jump right back in after knee surgeries.
Penix needs to play to his natural abilities. He did not do that in Iowa City, he looked unnatural. There was a time or two where had he chosen to run, he certainly would've picked up positive yardage. Instead, he pulls up and throws a bad pass because he's not playing to his natural talents.
I certainly hope he irons out the wrinkles this weekend!! There's two four star QBs directly behind him. Those guys absolutely need to be ready for live action should MP not clean it up a bit.
I certainly hope he irons out the wrinkles this weekend!! There's two four star QBs directly behind him. Those guys absolutely need to be ready for live action should MP not clean it up a bit.
I agree no way should Penix be benched. I do think he should have been taken out for a series or two just to calm down definitely was was overly excited on Saturday. Penix is a very streaky guy. When he his off he is off. But when he is on He is awesome. Just need to come out give him some easy reads and throws get him settled in. When that happens watch out. It giving up on this kid or this team after one game.
He'd only get a half against Idaho to show me he has it together..
Honestly going forward against Big Ten defense's...I dont trust him.
He has zero mobility...Passing everything off his back foot....And he throw's even easy screens a 100 mph ..No touch at all..
And...He's made of straw...
Honestly going forward against Big Ten defense's...I dont trust him.
He has zero mobility...Passing everything off his back foot....And he throw's even easy screens a 100 mph ..No touch at all..
And...He's made of straw...
I hope it does not take a half for him to get in a rhythm. If it does we are in trouble.
This is such an overreaction. First, Penix has plenty of mobility, he could be a DT QB if he wanted to, he has just always been more comfortable as a PP and with his injuries there's no way they were going to turn him into a DT in college. The only critique I will give you is that he throws off his backfoot, overall his technique could use a lot of cleaning up. But him being "made of straw" has never once hindered his ability to be an effective QB.
You also need to take that performance with context, if you've watched player coming off a major injury, most of them lack confidence in their first game back. Not to mention the blocking was a cheap joke nearly the entire game, per usual he had no time to throw the football or go through his progressions. And after the second pick 6 Penix was forcing stuff trying to make big plays, but IU was down 28 so it made sense.
Do you have a solution because the one I keep hearing is bench Penix *eyeroll* so let me inform everyone how our team has fared when Penix is out of the game. Tuttle being the starter we are 1-1 and average 17 PPG, and in his one fully healthy start he still only threw the ball for 130 yards. I like Tuttle, but he would be a horrible starter given our O-line situation, he needs a clean pocket to be effective, and there's no way anyone taking the snaps for the Hoosiers this year is going to have anything close to a clean pocket. Tuttle's pocket poise is lacking, he tends to panic and make poor decisions when he's under pressure. Not to mention the fact that Penix is more mobile than Tuttle, it's inarguable and Penix has a quicker release so when he recognizes a defender is coming, he rarely takes a sack, that is something we cannot say for Tuttle. For example, Penix was only sacked once in the Iowa game, even though he was hurried on what felt like nearly all of his passing attempts. That one sack came in the 3rd quarter, when Penix didn't want to just throw it away on 3rd down in the red zone so he tried to evade the defense, he got away from the first guy but our O-line can't be expected to only let one guy get a free shot at Penix, so the second unblocked defender was able to sack him. Point being anyone suggesting we should start Tuttle has no credibility and typically makes weak arguments to blame Penix for overall offensive failures because it's easy to blame the QB for a bad offensive performance.
I think you're undervaluing Tuttle. Look, I won't try and compare the talent level of Penix and Tuttle because that isn't fair. Penix has the arm strength to make throws downfield that not many other QB's can. But this isn't the IU team we're all accustomed to where they need to go out and score 40+ points every week to have a chance to win. IU has a legitimate defense and not only a legitimate defense but a very aggressive one that creates chances for the offense. IU needs a QB who can sustain drives. In order to do this, you need a QB who completes the high percentage passes at an efficient rate and can extend drives with their legs. Tuttle is more than capable of doing this.
I'm not on the bench Penix train, but you cannot have your starting QB out there completing less than 50% of his passes and turning the ball over multiple times a game regardless of how good your defense is. I understand Iowa is one game, but Penix in the last 2-3 games before he got hurt last year completed a very low percentage of his passes and had issues with turnovers. Penix looked like an absolute statue in the pocket Saturday and had no intentions of going through his reads down field. It's why most of his throws were rushed and were decidedly off target. Cannot have an unconfident QB out there who is afraid to extend a play for fear of injury. Not saying 100% that was the case Saturday, but it sure looked like it.
aint no way penix need bench. dey out of dey mind. he a major asset. stupid.....Week 1 overreactions for Ohio State and the rest of the Big Ten: College football Monday Madness
Looking back over a welcome first weekend back for college football.
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Can't believe there are fans going after Penix, after all the games he's already won for IU. He's a future draft pick if he stays healthy and our best QB since Randle El.
Maybe the Bucs should have benched Brady after he threw three picks against the Saints last November in a 38-3 loss.
As another poster (RBB) used to say, we have the dumbest fans.
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I agree wholeheartedly with what you said. A bad outing coming off a year layoff in a hostile environment does not warrant benching. I have said taking him for a series or two might or might not done some good. I also agree that Penix has incredible arm talent sometimes he needs to calm it down some. I also agree we don’t have a big enough sample to determine how good Tuttle is. I have watched his highlights from high school and Elite 11 competition and he can throw it too. Also agree with you about us going out and scoring 40 points game it is not going to happen because are going to go fast tempo and throwing it down the field. It is not what CTA wants. He wants an offense that huddles and controls the clock running first and passing short. Then takes opportunities over the top when available.
Why is Penix above criticism? Peyton Ramsey won as many games as Penix after Penix was oft-injured and was relentlessly criticized on this board. He had a terrible game Saturday and a huge reason why IU lost. His last 2-3 games last year sans the second half of the OSU game are the same repeated pattern of inaccuracy and turnovers. Why is this an issue with you?
He's not above criticism. I've said it in other threads and I'll state the obvious again here - - - he played poorly on Saturday. But I (and PFF) have a very different perception of his IU career, overall, than you do, and people who say he should be benched simply don't know what they're talking about.
Who has actually called for Penix to be benched entirely? I've seen plenty of people who have suggested Tuttle should have gotten a series or two before he did Saturday when the game was no longer in doubt and I have said a QB change may be necessary down the road if Penix doesn't right the ship. But I've yet to see one poster claim that Penix' time as starting QB needs to be over. You're overexaggerating to the max degree.
Facts are that Penix in his last 4 starts dating back to last year have been very pedestrian to just downright bad. He had a monster second half in the game against Ohio State where IU once trailed 35-7, but his play overall does not warrant someone who should be entitled to the job going forward if he doesn't make significant strides towards improvement.
In Penix last 4 starts:
72-139 51%
8 TDs/6 INT's
That isn't good. Definitely not somebody who should be above criticism.
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He also has an injury history that suggests our backup needs reps.
Now against Idaho it may make sense to get him extended time to find rhythm against a bad team.
I am not going to call Idaho a bad team. A team we should beat yes.
I guess you missed the title of this thread, the link, and some comments in other threads.
For the third time, I'm not arguing he's above criticism. I will argue, though, that your little stat here is misleading, because his sh*tshow Saturday skews the "last 4 starts" numbers. Here's what happened in the previous three. He threw two picks but also two TDs and passed for 320 yards in the shutout win over Michigan State, and had a career game - - and the second-best single game QB performance in IU history - - against a team that played for the national championship. He struggled against Maryland but left late in the third (the ACL injury) with a 17-3 lead and we won the game.
Here's what PFF says about Penix:
"Despite playing behind one of the worst offensive lines in college football in 2020, Penix managed an 82.9 PFF grade in six starts before tearing his ACL in Week 13. Only four other FBS quarterbacks spent a higher rate of their dropbacks under pressure than Penix (41%), yet the Hoosier overcame that to put together quality play. He remained calm in collapsing pockets, converting pressure to sacks at an astronomically low rate of 7.4%, the best mark in the FBS.
None of this is surprising after what we saw from Penix back in 2019 when he posted an 84.0 PFF grade across six starts. And while his accuracy wasn't quite as consistent as it was in 2019, he still produced plus results in that area in 2020, ranking 19th in the FBS in the percentage of accurate passes thrown 10-plus yards downfield.
Penix ended up leading all Power Five quarterbacks in big-time throw rate this past season and established himself as one of the top passers in the country before the injury."
Penix is the most dynamic player on the team. He's a game-changer and a winner. He'll win many more games for us if the OL simply goes from sh*t to mediocre.
Howso?
Ahia and Psu finish 1 2 so third is best case for iowa. Who knows what happens to IU from here on out but a rebound could mean anything,
So no, it is perfectly logical and not "funny" at all.
iowa likely finishes second in the JV div.
The thread of the title is an article (from an Ohio paper) posting overreactions. They are agreeing that it is an overreaction to bench Penix now. That's the entire point of the article. Please link where other posters (IU posters preferably) have said Penix needs to be benched NOW! I'll hang up and wait.
The rest of your post about a preseason writeup is meaningless at this point.
He was meh against Michigan State. Put up a ton of yards against a bad defense but also threw 2 INT and probably a good reason why the final score wasn't more lopsided than it should have been. Michigan State was next level bad last year.
He had a great second half last year against Ohio State. He still only completed 51% of his passes and IU trailed by 28 points at one point. Valiant effort by Penix and Co to make it a game.
He had a terrible game against Maryland last year before getting hurt. There's no sugarcoating it.
He had an even worse game last Saturday against Iowa.
His trend of poor performances dating back to last year isn't a good thing. Asking the OL to go from shit to mediocre is a long shot. It just doesn't happen like that. IU's season can not go to shit because the QB isn't mobile enough or accurate enough to complete the high percentage of passes because of the Oline. Throwing 3 first half INT's (two for pick sixes) isn't acceptable. IU will not win many games going forward if they don't get marked improvement out of the QB position.
Lol. Love how you gloss over his performance at Ohio State, and Pro Football Focus's detailed, statistical analysis.
It sounds like you want him benched!
If you want the last word (and I know you do), have at it. I'm done with your nonsensical comments.
Sagarin has Idaho as the 177th best team (4th worst in FBS), they are bad.
I think Tuttle's peak would be an above average B1G QB, which I am more than satisfied with, especially if I thought there were no better options. My problem with Tuttle is I don't think Indiana can get him even close to his peak, he is in the opposite of an ideal situation. He is someone who needs time in the pocket and dynamic receivers. We know he won't have any protection, and he doesn't seem to handle pressure as well as Penix. He throws an accurate ball if the throw is less than 20 yards downfield and definitely has more touch than Penix, but his deep ball ability is a question mark, Penix is a proven deep ball thrower. Our receivers also fit Penix's skillset more than Tuttle's, Tuttle would thrive consistently completing passes to slot receivers, and then throwing over the top when DB's start to cheat up, the problem I see with that is our recievers don't have the skillsets to make that gameplan work. Our best guy by a mile, Fryfogle is a deep ball guy, enough said, Marshall also seems like more of a deep ball guy, all of his best plays are one on one jump ball/deep ball catches, granted he has a limited sample size. Our slot receiver DJ Matthews certainly looks like a downgrade from Whop Philyor and for a guy like Tuttle to be really effective, we need a stronger slot receiving core.
Penix looked bad against Maryland last year, but to be fair the entire Indiana team came out flat. But otherwise Penix's only bad performance was the first 3 quarters of the Penn State game. He played extremely well against OSU and played good enough to win handily against MSU so I would push back on the idea that his last 2-3 games were concerning, it was really just the Maryland game.
Penix's statline against Iowa looks horrible, and he never really got in sync, toward the end of the game he was making poor decisions and his throws weren't even accurate. But to be fair he did flash a few very good throws downfield when he had decent protection early in the game, it just didn't last, the pick sixes shook his confidence and made him feel like he had to force the ball downfield to try to get the Hoosiers back in the game. Ironically I feel like Idaho is a really pivotal game lol, because he needs to have confidence going into the Cincy game. If Penix throws 4-5 touchdowns in the first half against Idaho(which he is certainly capable of doing), with no picks it will do wonders for his confidence going into the Cincy game and the offense will hopefully get back on track.
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Why in the world would you automatically assume Iowa would lose to PSU? I'll give you OSU, but no way would I say PSU is an auto loss for Iowa. Silly. And, we already beat you guys, so likely 2nd in the east.
Nothing is an "auto loss" but the chance of iowa beating psu is remote at best. Then who knows what Mich does this year and Iu could turn it around. Neb is down for sure. Third is best case and it could get worse. Big boy division.
Vegas has IU as a 28 point favorite.
IU should absolutely destroy the Idaho "Vandals."
IU should absolutely destroy the Idaho "Vandals."
Ya, that east is one scary division, last year Iowa took MSU to the woodshed in Kinnick, beat PSU by 20 in Happy Valley, then took IU to the woodshed in Kinnick.... Big boy division. LOL
Don’t you people have a game Saturday on which you should all be concentrating?
One thing I have learned in 35 years of coaching and many more years of cheering for IU football is you have to respect everyone.
