IMO, Kiss college football fall season goodbye.

[TMFT]

Jan 29, President Trump bans travel from China

Jan 30, Dems call Trump a Xenophobe

I know this has become a strong narrative in the national discussion, but it just ain't true.

The China portion of the travel ban was proclaimed on January 31 (SOURCE).

Also on January 31, the President added 6 majority Muslim countries to his existing travel restrictions, popularly known as the "Muslim ban." (SOURCE).

Pelosi's tweet response in January 31 (SOURCE)

And I've scoured the internet for any examples of Dems calling the President a xenophobe over the China travel ban in particular. I see lots of such complaints about the expanded "Muslim ban."

The only serious Dem statement I can see is what Biden tweeted after the China travel restrictions were announced. But those statements (HERE) are open to interpretation. I can see where someone would read what he wrote and make the connection between the "xenophobia" part and the "coronavirus" part as a comment on the travel ban. I can also see the interpretation where it's generically saying that the xenophobia was a general critique and not tied to the travel ban at all.

As you'd probably guess, I lead to the latter interpretation. First, because the travel ban was never brought up or specifically referenced at all. Second, and more importantly to me, that in the time since the President took a stand on the "Chinese Virus" and later made some tenuous and false claims about Nancy Pelosi in Chinatown San Francisco, as if Chinatown neighborhoods have some portal into China. Why does it matter? Because xenophobia leads to bad outcomes like violence. At the very least, it can lead to what happened in Martinsville where a Korean-American doctor was refused service at a gas station because he was too Asian for the clerk. (SOURCE)

I know that all of these primary sources will have very little effect on anyone who already has their minds made up. But I hate to see a false and easily disprovable out there becoming the conventional wisdom.

Be well.

 

[Bowlmania]

It’s on track to be easily the US third cause of death and the only one that could have been cut to a half or third if our president had done his job. And now his supporters are making it worse by pretending it doesn’t matter. If it were a Democrat in office you’d be howling like stuck pigs no matter how good a job he’d done of preparation. Our bad luck to have one who hardly prepared at all.

100,000+ dead (a bit different than the "15 cases that within a couple of days will be down close to zero") and 40 million unemployed. Aren't you sick and tired of winning?

 

[travlinhoosier]

There was a 30 year old here who spent 30 days in the hospital. He finally got to go home. I get it. It’s real. But it’s not goi

How much did that 30 days in hospital cost? This all makes your health insurance go up you know. And we could still max out hospitals. Don’t be sure this won’t get worse than it’s been. Wear a damn mask! Be a good citizen!

 

[ce36ei]

I’m about as apolitical as they come. But economic crisis and unemployment would be here no matter who was in office. To argue any other way is...just dumb.

How much did that 30 days in hospital cost? This all makes your health insurance go up you know. And we could still max out hospitals. Don’t be sure this won’t get worse than it’s been. Wear a damn mask! Be a good citizen!

I do. I’m not an ahole. I inevitably know I’ll get it eventually. Is what it is. I’ll keep wearing my mask at work (requirement anyway) and when I run to town for food or supplies. I’m being a good social distancing citizen. Just wish everyone would too.

 

[Bowlmania]

I’m about as apolitical as they come. But economic crisis and unemployment would be here no matter who was in office. To argue any other way is...just dumb.

No. This is what was dumb. Next to nothing was done during the entire month of February (including a disastrous lack of testing) except for lots of happy talk about how everything was under control. This lie was advanced, no doubt, in an effort to avoid spooking the markets and crashing the economy. But guess what? The economy crashed and we are the world's leader in Covid deaths.

I'll close with one of my favorite quotes: "Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible." -Donald J. Trump, November 8, 2013.

 

[travlinhoosier]

economic crisis and unemployment would be here no matter who was in office. To argue any other way is...just dumb.

They would but we would not have half the problems we do if a responsible president had been in charge. Trump wasted two months dithering about the stock market and pointedly Not getting us ready for the pandemic. That’s why we have so many Americans dead. That’s why it’s as dangerous as it is to reopen. America didn’t have to bungle this worse than most countries; we should have been ready for it. We should have had leadership but we had Trump.

 

[DANC]

It’s on track to be easily the US third cause of death and the only one that could have been cut to a half or third if our president had done his job. And now his supporters are making it worse by pretending it doesn’t matter. If it were a Democrat in office you’d be howling like stuck pigs no matter how good a job he’d done of preparation. Our bad luck to have one who hardly prepared at all.

It did happen under Obama with the H1N1 virus and he didn't declare a national emergency until 4 months after it appeared. And it killed around 40,000.

How many thousands of deaths would have had to occur before you blamed Obama for it?

 

[Indianaftw]

The other side? PLEASE! I'm so friggin' sick to death of BOTH sides. "left" & "right". More like "shit" & "show". My entire life it's been a political train wreck that only runs faster off the rails every election. Neither side has room to talk abut a DAMN thing. I don't understand how people support either one with a straight face. We need a new political party in this country SO badly.

I don't know how the thinking got so far apart on both sides. We don't need a new party we just need to come together. The far side of thought driving each side was never so bad as it is now. If people pulled together with some common sense and knowledge we could do miracles.

 

[DANC]

I know this has become a strong narrative in the national discussion, but it just ain't true.

The China portion of the travel ban was proclaimed on January 31 (SOURCE).

Also on January 31, the President added 6 majority Muslim countries to his existing travel restrictions, popularly known as the "Muslim ban." (SOURCE).

Pelosi's tweet response in January 31 (SOURCE)

And I've scoured the internet for any examples of Dems calling the President a xenophobe over the China travel ban in particular. I see lots of such complaints about the expanded "Muslim ban."

The only serious Dem statement I can see is what Biden tweeted after the China travel restrictions were announced. But those statements (HERE) are open to interpretation. I can see where someone would read what he wrote and make the connection between the "xenophobia" part and the "coronavirus" part as a comment on the travel ban. I can also see the interpretation where it's generically saying that the xenophobia was a general critique and not tied to the travel ban at all.

As you'd probably guess, I lead to the latter interpretation. First, because the travel ban was never brought up or specifically referenced at all. Second, and more importantly to me, that in the time since the President took a stand on the "Chinese Virus" and later made some tenuous and false claims about Nancy Pelosi in Chinatown San Francisco, as if Chinatown neighborhoods have some portal into China. Why does it matter? Because xenophobia leads to bad outcomes like violence. At the very least, it can lead to what happened in Martinsville where a Korean-American doctor was refused service at a gas station because he was too Asian for the clerk. (SOURCE)

I know that all of these primary sources will have very little effect on anyone who already has their minds made up. But I hate to see a false and easily disprovable out there becoming the conventional wisdom.

Be well.

Sorry - I was off by 2 days.

But that action was clearly labeled xenophobic when it happened. It was on multiple news channels.

And you're wrong about Biden not calling Trump xenophobic. I'm no Bill O'Reilly fan, but a quick search brought up a clip of Biden saying that very thing:

Now, you can say it's open to interpretation, but Trump announces a travel ban and Biden says he is xenophobic the same day, you have to be pretty naive to believe he wasn't calling Trump a xenophobe.

Of course, I'm not calling YOU naive, am I?

And as far as Pelosi in Chinatown is concerned, you know that her appearing there was very much symbolic, and she was urging people to get out and about WHILE THE PANDEMIC WAS GOING ON. I'd say Trump's criticism of Pelosi was very much justified.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/nancy-pelosi-visits-san-franciscos-chinatown/2240247/

 

[Indianaftw]

Poor snowflake, adults said you should do some things for the good of us all that inconvenienced you. They didn’t take any rights away from you but in the spirit of not yelling “Fire” in a crowded theater they required us to act wisely for a while.
You claim this isn’t serious even after 100,000 and climbing died, and you don’t say you’d behave any differently if a million had died. Would you?

Not trying to start anything here BUT the 100,000 that you throw around is so skewed. You can thank Dr. Birx for that one. I never understood the reasoning behind the model every confirmed covid case is a covid death.

Then you have the leader of Tanzania a math and chemistry degree holder making fools out of the W.H.O. by tainting the tests the WHO sent with motor oil, fruits, and animals leaving results that left the entire W.H.O. look like the leader of a ponzi scheme and crooks. I don't think we will ever know the true numbers from this thing.

 

[TMFT]

Sorry - I was off by 2 days.

But that action was clearly labeled xenophobic when it happened. It was on multiple news channels.

And you're wrong about Biden not calling Trump xenophobic. I'm no Bill O'Reilly fan, but a quick search brought up a clip of Biden saying that very thing:

View embedded media

Now, you can say it's open to interpretation, but Trump announces a travel ban and Biden says he is xenophobic the same day, you have to be pretty naive to believe he wasn't calling Trump a xenophobe.

Of course, I'm not calling YOU naive, am I?

And as far as Pelosi in Chinatown is concerned, you know that her appearing there was very much symbolic, and she was urging people to get out and about WHILE THE PANDEMIC WAS GOING ON. I'd say Trump's criticism of Pelosi was very much justified.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/nancy-pelosi-visits-san-franciscos-chinatown/2240247/

You'll need to show me an example of Dem leaders calling the China travel ban xenophobic. If you dig, you're going to find complaints about the broader ban unrelated to coronavirus, but not the former. And I really urge you to do so. You'll find some media opinion articles criticizing it, but it's just not there as far as a Dem party line on any kind of large scale.

And no doubt Biden called the President xenophobic. But in neither his tweet nor the video did he called the Chinese travel restrictions xenophobic, he said the President has a history of xenophobia. Either side is filling in gaps to come to their conclusion. It's also filling in gaps to say Biden's "xenophobe" comments were in direct relation to the China travel restrictions. It could very reasonably and non-naively be construed as an opinion of the President during an emerging crisis.

And I would submit that the President's criticism of Pelosi in Chinatown is completely un-justified. It's just a neighborhood. It'd be like if Susan Brooks told people they shouldn't be afraid to come to Broad Ripple or Andre Carson said they shouldn't be afraid to go downtown. Would they be incorrect? In hindsight for sure. But the point she was pretty clearly making is that she didn't think there should have been a fear of being in that particular neighborhood just because it has a concentration of Chinese-Americans. And his Chinatown critique rings hollow because he continued to hold rallies with tens of thousands literally packed into arenas for two weeks after the Speaker's comments. So if the issue for him clearly wasn't crowds, it was crowds IN Chinatown. Which again, is just a neighborhood.

 

[Bowlmania]

Then you have the leader of Tanzania a math and chemistry degree holder making fools out of the W.H.O. by tainting the tests the WHO sent with motor oil, fruits, and animals leaving results the left the entire W.H.O. look like the leader of a ponzi scheme and crooks. I don't think we will ever know the true numbers from this thing.

What? The only person Tanzania's president has made a fool out of is himself. He's a coronavirus denier, and falsely blamed the steep rise in Covid cases in his country on false positives.

The WHO test, manufactured in Germany, has performed well and has been globally recognized as highly accurate.

 

[DANC]

You'll need to show me an example of Dem leaders calling the China travel ban xenophobic. If you dig, you're going to find complaints about the broader ban unrelated to coronavirus, but not the former. And I really urge you to do so. You'll find some media opinion articles criticizing it, but it's just not there as far as a Dem party line on any kind of large scale.

And no doubt Biden called the President xenophobic. But in neither his tweet nor the video did he called the Chinese travel restrictions xenophobic, he said the President has a history of xenophobia. Either side is filling in gaps to come to their conclusion. It's also filling in gaps to say Biden's "xenophobe" comments were in direct relation to the China travel restrictions. It could very reasonably and non-naively be construed as an opinion of the President during an emerging crisis.

And I would submit that the President's criticism of Pelosi in Chinatown is completely un-justified. It's just a neighborhood. It'd be like if Susan Brooks told people they shouldn't be afraid to come to Broad Ripple or Andre Carson said they shouldn't be afraid to go downtown. Would they be incorrect? In hindsight for sure. But the point she was pretty clearly making is that she didn't think there should have been a fear of being in that particular neighborhood just because it has a concentration of Chinese-Americans. And his Chinatown critique rings hollow because he continued to hold rallies with tens of thousands literally packed into arenas for two weeks after the Speaker's comments. So if the issue for him clearly wasn't crowds, it was crowds IN Chinatown. Which again, is just a neighborhood.

Well, we disagree on both points.

"But in neither his tweet nor the video did he called the Chinese travel restrictions xenophobic, he said the President has a history of xenophobia." I'm sorry - I just don't see how you think he didn't call Trump a xenophobe when, on the very day Trump announced the travel ban, he said Trump was xenophobic.

As far as Pelosi, I don't have a problem with her going to Chinatown and telling people to get out and visit. What I have a major problem with is her doing that and then Democrats blaming Trump for supposed inaction during the month of February when she was in Chinatown in February.

Imagine if you're Trump and you're getting all kinds of criticism for supposed inaction (I don't believe there was no action taken - I think no one understood the virus well enough to wreck the economy at the time), and here is the leader of the Democrats urging everyone to get out, have fun, order some Chinese food, during the same month!

The hypocrisy is breathtaking, and to blame Trump for pointing out what Pelosi did is puzzling.

 

[DANC]

Not trying to start anything here BUT the 100,000 that you throw around is so skewed. You can thank Dr. Birx for that one. I never understood the reasoning behind the model every confirmed covid case is a covid death.

Then you have the leader of Tanzania a math and chemistry degree holder making fools out of the W.H.O. by tainting the tests the WHO sent with motor oil, fruits, and animals leaving results the left the entire W.H.O. look like the leader of a ponzi scheme and crooks. I don't think we will ever know the true numbers from this thing.

The 100,000 is totally bogus and the Democrats couldn't wait for that number to come up.

People are being counted if they die WITH the virus - not BECAUSE of the virus. NYC upped their count 3,700 in one day for 'unconfirmed' cases - those who have never been tested.

Even Dr. Birx says she can't get good numbers from the CDC.

 

[Bowlmania]

You'll need to show me an example of Dem leaders calling the China travel ban xenophobic. If you dig, you're going to find complaints about the broader ban unrelated to coronavirus, but not the former. And I really urge you to do so. You'll find some media opinion articles criticizing it, but it's just not there as far as a Dem party line on any kind of large scale.

And no doubt Biden called the President xenophobic. But in neither his tweet nor the video did he called the Chinese travel restrictions xenophobic, he said the President has a history of xenophobia. Either side is filling in gaps to come to their conclusion. It's also filling in gaps to say Biden's "xenophobe" comments were in direct relation to the China travel restrictions. It could very reasonably and non-naively be construed as an opinion of the President during an emerging crisis.

And I would submit that the President's criticism of Pelosi in Chinatown is completely un-justified. It's just a neighborhood. It'd be like if Susan Brooks told people they shouldn't be afraid to come to Broad Ripple or Andre Carson said they shouldn't be afraid to go downtown. Would they be incorrect? In hindsight for sure. But the point she was pretty clearly making is that she didn't think there should have been a fear of being in that particular neighborhood just because it has a concentration of Chinese-Americans. And his Chinatown critique rings hollow because he continued to hold rallies with tens of thousands literally packed into arenas for two weeks after the Speaker's comments. So if the issue for him clearly wasn't crowds, it was crowds IN Chinatown. Which again, is just a neighborhood.

I can't see who you're responding to, so I'm assuming it's the one person I have on "ignore."

You've cited credible sources, but you're spinning your wheels with him. Without fail, he insists on the last word and has a history of blowing up threads.

 

[TMFT]

Well, we disagree on both points.

"But in neither his tweet nor the video did he called the Chinese travel restrictions xenophobic, he said the President has a history of xenophobia." I'm sorry - I just don't see how you think he didn't call Trump a xenophobe when, on the very day Trump announced the travel ban, he said Trump was xenophobic.

As far as Pelosi, I don't have a problem with her going to Chinatown and telling people to get out and visit. What I have a major problem with is her doing that and then Democrats blaming Trump for supposed inaction during the month of February when she was in Chinatown in February.

Imagine if you're Trump and you're getting all kinds of criticism for supposed inaction (I don't believe there was no action taken - I think no one understood the virus well enough to wreck the economy at the time), and here is the leader of the Democrats urging everyone to get out, have fun, order some Chinese food, during the same month!

The hypocrisy is breathtaking, and to blame Trump for pointing out what Pelosi did is puzzling.

Yes, exactly he called the President xenophobic. That is not the same thing as saying he's xenophobic because of the Chinese travel restrictions. The left has considered him xenophobic since he came down the escalator and his rhetoric/action since (including the additional "Muslim ban" countries the same day. So that wasn't news.

And for sure someone like Pelosi encouraging people (incorrectly it turned out) to feel safe getting out is hypocritical to a degree for making the same criticism of the President.

But we've left the purpose of my original reply, which was to challenge that Dems called the president xenophobic because of the Chinese travel restrictions. There are plenty of fair criticisms to go around, but that just isn't one of them.

The best we've been shown is a Biden quote that objectively does NOT say that ban = xenophobic. Can it be interpreted that way? Sure. But it takes interpretation. And that's the spin.

But back to football, with the announcements by colleges (including IU) recently of school opening plans, I think we're getting pretty safe to say that the season will be a "go."

 

[DANC]

I can't see who you're responding to, so I'm assuming it's the one person I have on "ignore."

You've cited credible sources, but you're spinning your wheels with him. Without fail, he insists on the last word and has a history of blowing up threads.

You're not fooling anyone - you've read my posts.

I've cited the same sources he has and came to a much different conclusion.

But do continue your pretense of having me on ignore.

 

[DANC]

Yes, exactly he called the President xenophobic. That is not the same thing as saying he's xenophobic because of the Chinese travel restrictions. The left has considered him xenophobic since he came down the escalator and his rhetoric/action since (including the additional "Muslim ban" countries the same day. So that wasn't news.

And for sure someone like Pelosi encouraging people (incorrectly it turned out) to feel safe getting out is hypocritical to a degree for making the same criticism of the President.

But we've left the purpose of my original reply, which was to challenge that Dems called the president xenophobic because of the Chinese travel restrictions. There are plenty of fair criticisms to go around, but that just isn't one of them.

The best we've been shown is a Biden quote that objectively does NOT say that ban = xenophobic. Can it be interpreted that way? Sure. But it takes interpretation. And that's the spin.

But back to football, with the announcements by colleges (including IU) recently of school opening plans, I think we're getting pretty safe to say that the season will be a "go."

Again, we'll agree to disagree on Pelosi and Biden.

I'm not so sure about football. I don't think there will be a concensus among all schools, or even those in our conference, regarding play this year. And if they do decide to play, will there be fans? Some schools may allow it, others may not.

I'm not at all convinced we'll play a 12 game schedule. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Again, we'll agree to disagree on Pelosi and Biden.

I'm not so sure about football. I don't think there will be a concensus among all schools, or even those in our conference, regarding play this year. And if they do decide to play, will there be fans? Some schools may allow it, others may not.

I'm not at all convinced we'll play a 12 game schedule. I hope I'm wrong.

Iowa st just announced they’re playing this fall and will limit stadium to 30,000. It holds 60k

 

[IU Fan 1989]

Man I cannot wait for football! I think I might have to suspend my account until this is over? How many times can someone make the exact same point over and over??? Just because you think something does not make it true.

 

[travlinhoosier]

It did happen under Obama with the H1N1 virus and he didn't declare a national emergency until 4 months after it appeared. And it killed around 40,000.

How many thousands of deaths would have had to occur before you blamed Obama for it?

I don’t remember that; I doubt you do either. I do know he left us with a group of experts ready to tackle such a thing when it came again and trump disbanded it. And I’d be careful what source I use for presidential history. Fox, e.g. is quite biased.

 

[travlinhoosier]

Now, you can say it's open to interpretation, but Trump announces a travel ban and Biden says he is xenophobic the same day, you have to be pretty naive to believe he wasn't calling Trump a xenophobe.

Well trump was getting intelligence Biden wasn’t. And it didn’t work very well, now did it? And that’s all he did toward protecting us. After all that time wasted.

 

[Indianaftw]

What? The only person Tanzania's president has made a fool out of is himself. He's a coronavirus denier, and falsely blamed the steep rise in Covid cases in his country on false positives.

The WHO test, manufactured in Germany, has performed well and has been globally recognized as highly accurate.

They've had 21 deaths and 509 cases what are you talking about???

 

[GeddyHoosier]

Iowa st just announced they’re playing this fall and will limit stadium to 30,000. It holds 60k

I think that is what we'll see across the country. Game on, but with limited attendance and other safeguards.

 

[Indianaftw]

Man I cannot wait for football! I think I might have to suspend my account until this is over? How many times can someone make the exact same point over and over??? Just because you think something does not make it true.

There are many hard leaners on this board that just wanna argue for an agenda. Still I don't know anyone who has died of just "PURE" covid. Its not even worth arguing over anymore because any argument falls on deaf ears. There are so many theories abound as well that there is more to this than a virus which I have to believe is true because there is too much bullshit tied to something so insignificant. Here comes the what are you talking about insignificant 100,000 dead...Prolly not even 1/5 of that is directly involved with "COVID ONLY". It affects such a small amount of the population (article and link if you wish) that it was never worth shutting down. Precautions taken, but shutting down? No I'll never be sold on what we did.

RedBud is an outdoor motocross event that I thought would be scheduled its over July 4th. Yet, even with people spread out all over hills and land its cancelled. If they cancelled that how are they gonna schedule a football game with people in much closer proximity?

 

[destewart]

There are many hard leaners on this board that just wanna argue for an agenda. Still I don't know anyone who has died of just "PURE" covid. Its not even worth arguing over anymore because any argument falls on deaf ears. There are so many theories abound as well that there is more to this than a virus which I have to believe is true because there is too much bullshit tied to something so insignificant. Here comes the what are you talking about insignificant 100,000 dead...Prolly not even 1/5 of that is directly involved with "COVID ONLY". It affects such a small amount of the population (article and link if you wish) that it was never worth shutting down. Precautions taken, but shutting down? No I'll never be sold on what we did.

RedBud is an outdoor motocross event that I thought would be scheduled its over July 4th. Yet, even with people spread out all over hills and land its cancelled. If they cancelled that how are they gonna schedule a football game with people in much closer proximity?

The difference? The future of college athletics did not rest on that motorcross event.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

I'm gonna try to make a mostly apolitical post.

George W. Bush and Barack Obama both warned of future pandemics. That covers 16 years of presidential administrations. (I bet Bill Clinton did too, but I didn't look it up, and 16 years is enough for my question.) Neither went out and had the federal government purchase warehouses full of PPE and ventilators.

Why?

"Well, they both wanted to let innocent citizens die" is the answer you might get in today's political climate - but I'm suggesting a differenty reason. My suggestion is they didn't do that because it is not the job of the federal government (or the state, or the local) to make sure hospitals have PPE and ventilators. Just like when you go to the ER with a broken arm - its the job of the hospital to be able to give you an x-ray and a cast, or penicillin when you have an infection. The health care providers have been building new wings onto their buidings for the last 30 years. Their Presidents (and others) have been warning them "be ready for a pandemic." If they weren't, its not governments fault.

So when I see/hear/read folks blaming government for that "failure" - I tend to discount that view - and I'm careful about just accepting things those folks say on other issues too. (Now if the VA failed to be ready for war casualties, I'll lead the march. And I'll ask - do you think the private sector would have done better with Agent Orange treatments? Wish I knew.)

So on to my next question - are you suggesting that a President, not a governor, not a mayor, should be THE ENTITY that is empowered to close down things? I will beg to differ. I don't want Trump or anyone federal closing my local school, or my local Kroger, or my local anything else. It's bad enough when a Governor does it.

Here in my state, after 5 months, we have zero deaths in people under 30. We have 3 counties where they don't even have a CASE of virus. Those rural areas shouldn't be treated the same as NYC because their facts are not the same as NYC. No way a federal decision is appropriate for them. Hard enough for a Governor-sized blanket.

In fact, I'm pretty disgusted with NYC. I don't look to them for ANY guidance. The main lesson from the 1917-18 pandemic? DON'T PUT PEOPLE ON TRAINS TO RIDE AROUND AND INFECT EACH OTHER. Why didn't NYC shut down the subway? "Because health care workers need to work." Were non-health care workers allowed to ride the trains? "Well, yes." Why? "They need to work too." Where has the Covid 19 been the absolute WORST in the US? "In NYC and across the river in Newark." Did Trump force the subways to stay open? Nope. Is he getting the blame? Yep. Do I give a crap? Nope.

Now, about those experts - does this sound familiar?:

We have seen no evidence that this virus can pass from animal to human.
Wait. Yes it can. Damn, those ChiComs lied.

But we have seen no evidence that it can pass from human to human.
Wait. Yes it can.

But it can’t pass airborne so masks aren’t needed.
Wait. Yes it can. Yes they are.

The main threat is touching somewhere the virus has landed. Wash your hands,.
Wait. Now it seems it has a hard time doing that touch thing.

The virus is SUPER contagious. One person can be resposible for 335,000 infections in less than 3 weeks because of exponential spread. You and the people you expose can be asymptomtic for up to 14 days and most people won't be symptomatic EVER, but you can spread it like wildfire. We expect between 40% and 70% of the population to become infected.

Wait, In the US, slightly less than 10% of tests are positive - and the number is dropping as testing spreads - 5 months after it spread "at will' for far too long (December to March?) because of our delayed social distancing and even after we started testing with the most vulnerable.

There are 35,000 deaths worldwide, but there will be over 2,000,000 deaths in the US, and our whole medical system everywhere will be overwhelmed - no matter what - because of our delayed social distancing.
Wait. That’s wrong too.

Chlorine kills the virus, so keep swimming pools closed.

Can it be sexually transmitted?
No, according to a Chinese study.
Yes, according to a Chinese study.

If I catch it and survive, like over 98% of all infected persons, will I develop antibodies and immunity like with other viruses?
We don’t know.

If I catch it, get over it, and have antibodies, can I catch it again?
We don’t know.

(There’s only been viruses for millions of years and we only have 5,800,000 examples of this one to study so far - as of today.)

How long will a vaccination take?
Maybe 2-3 years.
No, 18 months.
Wait, maybe by New Years.
Wait, there’s already 90 in process.

Does that malaria drug work?
Yes, in test tubes.
No.
Sometimes.
We don’t know why, when, how or why not.
Don't take it. You'll die
.
(I was prescribed it in 2014 for rheumatoid arthritis. Millions - maybe hundreds of millions - have had it prescribed for malaria. If I wanted an abortion or a heart transplant, the decision would be between me and my doctor. If I just have RA, or malaria, I have to please Trump and his detractors?)

I'm sorry - but I'm not listening to those people anymore.

Am I just a callous murderer of the old and sick and vulnerable?
Nope. I am old and vulnerable.
I have suppressed immunity and 3 other co-morbidities.
Should i blame the governments?
Nah. I don't see it that way.

When a vaccine comes out, I'm gonna get me one.
Until then, I'm washing my hands, wearing my mask, staying away from youngsters (they think they are bullet proof) and hoping for the best.
Why make it worse by giving half my fellow Americans the finger?

Rant paused ... for reflections on our lives:



Instead of poking each other,lets carry each other a while:

 

[Pigalow]

I don't know how the thinking got so far apart on both sides. We don't need a new party we just need to come together. The far side of thought driving each side was never so bad as it is now. If people pulled together with some common sense and knowledge we could do miracles.

I have zero confidence that can or will happen. too much water under the bridge at this point. WAY too much, imo.

 

[Indianaftw]

The difference? The future of college athletics did not rest on that motorcross event.

I understand that...Just trying to use an example. Supercross continues this weekend to finish its schedule with races every Sunday and Wednesday. Seven races to complete the season with NO FANS at Rice-Eccles Stadium, but at least they are moving forward. Nice to get some sports this weekend.

I am not a UFC fan but watched with a group when they opened back up 3 weeks ago or so. It was nice to watch some sports again and a fun night.

 

[Indianaftw]

I'm gonna try to make a mostly apolitical post.

George W. Bush and Barack Obama both warned of future pandemics. That covers 16 years of presidential administrations. (I bet Bill Clinton did too, but I didn't look it up, and 16 years is enough for my question.) Neither went out and had the federal government purchase warehouses full of PPE and ventilators.

Why?

"Well, they both wanted to let innocent citizens die" is the answer you might get in today's political climate - but I'm suggesting a differenty reason. My suggestion is they didn't do that because it is not the job of the federal government (or the state, or the local) to make sure hospitals have PPE and ventilators. Just like when you go to the ER with a broken arm - its the job of the hospital to be able to give you an x-ray and a cast, or penicillin when you have an infection. The health care providers have been building new wings onto their buidings for the last 30 years. Their Presidents (and others) have been warning them "be ready for a pandemic." If they weren't, its not governments fault.

So when I see/hear/read folks blaming government for that "failure" - I tend to discount that view - and I'm careful about just accepting things those folks say on other issues too. (Now if the VA failed to be ready for war casualties, I'll lead the march. And I'll ask - do you think the private sector would have done better with Agent Orange treatments? Wish I knew.)

So on to my next question - are you suggesting that a President, not a governor, not a mayor, should be THE ENTITY that is empowered to close down things? I will beg to differ. I don't want Trump or anyone federal closing my local school, or my local Kroger, or my local anything else. It's bad enough when a Governor does it.

Here in my state, after 5 months, we have zero deaths in people under 30. We have 3 counties where they don't even have a CASE of virus. Those rural areas shouldn't be treated the same as NYC because their facts are not the same as NYC. No way a federal decision is appropriate for them. Hard enough for a Governor-sized blanket.

In fact, I'm pretty disgusted with NYC. I don't look to them for ANY guidance. The main lesson from the 1917-18 pandemic? DON'T PUT PEOPLE ON TRAINS TO RIDE AROUND AND INFECT EACH OTHER. Why didn't NYC shut down the subway? "Because health care workers need to work." Were non-health care workers allowed to ride the trains? "Well, yes." Why? "They need to work too." Where has the Covid 19 been the absolute WORST in the US? "In NYC and across the river in Newark." Did Trump force the subways to stay open? Nope. Is he getting the blame? Yep. Do I give a crap? Nope.

Now, about those experts - does this sound familiar?:

We have seen no evidence that this virus can pass from animal to human.
Wait. Yes it can. Damn, those ChiComs lied.

But we have seen no evidence that it can pass from human to human.
Wait. Yes it can.

But it can’t pass airborne so masks aren’t needed.
Wait. Yes it can. Yes they are.

The main threat is touching somewhere the virus has landed. Wash your hands,.
Wait. Now it seems it has a hard time doing that touch thing.

The virus is SUPER contagious. One person can be resposible for 335,000 infections in less than 3 weeks because of exponential spread. You and the people you expose can be asymptomtic for up to 14 days and most people won't be symptomatic EVER, but you can spread it like wildfire. We expect between 40% and 70% of the population to become infected.

Wait, In the US, slightly less than 10% of tests are positive - and the number is dropping as testing spreads - 5 months after it spread "at will' for far too long (December to March?) because of our delayed social distancing and even after we started testing with the most vulnerable.

There are 35,000 deaths worldwide, but there will be over 2,000,000 deaths in the US, and our whole medical system everywhere will be overwhelmed - no matter what - because of our delayed social distancing.
Wait. That’s wrong too.

Chlorine kills the virus, so keep swimming pools closed.

Can it be sexually transmitted?
No, according to a Chinese study.
Yes, according to a Chinese study.

If I catch it and survive, like over 98% of all infected persons, will I develop antibodies and immunity like with other viruses?
We don’t know.

If I catch it, get over it, and have antibodies, can I catch it again?
We don’t know.

(There’s only been viruses for millions of years and we only have 5,800,000 examples of this one to study so far - as of today.)

How long will a vaccination take?
Maybe 2-3 years.
No, 18 months.
Wait, maybe by New Years.
Wait, there’s already 90 in process.

Does that malaria drug work?
Yes, in test tubes.
No.
Sometimes.
We don’t know why, when, how or why not.
Don't take it. You'll die
.
(I was prescribed it in 2014 for rheumatoid arthritis. Millions - maybe hundreds of millions - have had it prescribed for malaria. If I wanted an abortion or a heart transplant, the decision would be between me and my doctor. If I just have RA, or malaria, I have to please Trump and his detractors?)

I'm sorry - but I'm not listening to those people anymore.

Am I just a callous murderer of the old and sick and vulnerable?
Nope. I am old and vulnerable.
I have suppressed immunity and 3 other co-morbidities.
Should i blame the governments?
Nah. I don't see it that way.

When a vaccine comes out, I'm gonna get me one.
Until then, I'm washing my hands, wearing my mask, staying away from youngsters (they think they are bullet proof) and hoping for the best.
Why make it worse by giving half my fellow Americans the finger?

Rant paused ... for reflections on our lives:

View embedded media

Instead of poking each other,lets carry each other a while:

View embedded media

LOL well said till the last paragraph...When the vaccine comes out I'll take my damn chances without it. Why? Because like you said...I'm not listening to these idiots anymore. I look for alternatives sources...Smart mother truckers with degrees in biology that have common sense. Theres a few out there and most think a vaccine won't work like Shiva. He breaks crap down so organically true it only makes sense. Anyways, nice piece you wrote there. It basically sums up Trumps entire presidency...Damned if he does, Damned if he doesn't. Pretty sad when you think about it. It also sums up the last 4 months too. Do this! Wait don't do that, ok you can do that now. Its a f*cking joke!

 

[Indianaftw]

I have zero confidence that can or will happen. too much water under the bridge at this point. WAY too much, imo.

Thats sad too. Thats why we need term limits in every state. Does anyone disagree with that?

 

[DANC]

I don’t remember that; I doubt you do either. I do know he left us with a group of experts ready to tackle such a thing when it came again and trump disbanded it. And I’d be careful what source I use for presidential history. Fox, e.g. is quite biased.

Remember it? How could you not remember it. Are you denying it happened?

 

[travlinhoosier]

From https://www.justsecurity.org/69650/timeline-of-the-coronavirus-pandemic-and-u-s-response/

"May 8, 2018: The National Security Council removes the top official responsible for pandemic response and disbands the global health security team.

President Trump’s National Security Advisor, John Bolton, removes Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer from the National Security Council and disbands Ziemer’s unit, the Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense. Previously, Ziemer was the sole senior official focused on pandemic preparedness. He is not replaced."

We'd have tens of thousands of more live Americans and billions of $ more if Trump hadn't caused or allowed John Bolton to do this. Experts had already warned a virus epidemic was one of our greatest threat.

"September 2018: The Department of Health and Human Services diverts funding from the CDC to pay for housing detained immigrant children.

HHS Secretary Alex Azar reallocates $266 million of funds from the CDC to the Unaccompanied Alien Children (UAC) program in the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR).

The same month: The Trump administration fails to follow through with an Obama-era project designed to protect against medical supply shortages during pandemics.

The Trump administration Department of Health and Human Services receives detailed plans by a medical manufacturer to create a new machine that would have the capacity to make protective masks at high speed (1.5 million masks per day). The machine was specifically designed to handle pandemic-related medical shortages and was the culmination of an Obama-era preparedness plan. The Trump Administration paid millions of dollars to the company but does not follow through with making the machine."

"April 2019: HHS Secretary Alex Azar says what keeps everyone in the Biodefense world up at night is the threat of a pandemic flu.

Secretary Azar says that one of the biggest concerns in the biodefense world is the threat of a pandemic flu.

July 2019: The Trump administration eliminates an American public health position designed to detect disease outbreaks in China.

The CDC removes an American public health official stationed in Beijing within China’s disease control agency. The official, Dr. Linda Quick, worked with Chinese epidemiologists to help detect and contain diseases. “If someone had been there, public health officials and governments across the world could have moved much faster,” Bao-Ping Zhu, who served in the role between 2007 and 2011, tells Reuters in March 2020. Thomas R. Frieden, former director of the CDC, said that if the Quick had still been in China, “it is possible that we would know more today about how this coronavirus is spreading and what works best to stop it.” However, Scott McNabb, a CDC epidemiologist for 20 years and now a research professor at Emory University says, “it probably wouldn’t have made a big difference.” “The problem was how the Chinese handled it,” he says."

I could go on and on listing Trump screwups. Follow the link at the top and read.

 

[vesuvius13]

From https://www.justsecurity.org/69650/timeline-of-the-coronavirus-pandemic-and-u-s-response/

"May 8, 2018: The National Security Council removes the top official responsible for pandemic response and disbands the global health security team.

President Trump’s National Security Advisor, John Bolton, removes Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer from the National Security Council and disbands Ziemer’s unit, the Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense. Previously, Ziemer was the sole senior official focused on pandemic preparedness. He is not replaced."

We'd have tens of thousands of more live Americans and billions of $ more if Trump hadn't caused or allowed John Bolton to do this. Experts had already warned a virus epidemic was one of our greatest threat.

"September 2018: The Department of Health and Human Services diverts funding from the CDC to pay for housing detained immigrant children.

HHS Secretary Alex Azar reallocates $266 million of funds from the CDC to the Unaccompanied Alien Children (UAC) program in the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR).

The same month: The Trump administration fails to follow through with an Obama-era project designed to protect against medical supply shortages during pandemics.

The Trump administration Department of Health and Human Services receives detailed plans by a medical manufacturer to create a new machine that would have the capacity to make protective masks at high speed (1.5 million masks per day). The machine was specifically designed to handle pandemic-related medical shortages and was the culmination of an Obama-era preparedness plan. The Trump Administration paid millions of dollars to the company but does not follow through with making the machine."

"April 2019: HHS Secretary Alex Azar says what keeps everyone in the Biodefense world up at night is the threat of a pandemic flu.

Secretary Azar says that one of the biggest concerns in the biodefense world is the threat of a pandemic flu.

July 2019: The Trump administration eliminates an American public health position designed to detect disease outbreaks in China.

The CDC removes an American public health official stationed in Beijing within China’s disease control agency. The official, Dr. Linda Quick, worked with Chinese epidemiologists to help detect and contain diseases. “If someone had been there, public health officials and governments across the world could have moved much faster,” Bao-Ping Zhu, who served in the role between 2007 and 2011, tells Reuters in March 2020. Thomas R. Frieden, former director of the CDC, said that if the Quick had still been in China, “it is possible that we would know more today about how this coronavirus is spreading and what works best to stop it.” However, Scott McNabb, a CDC epidemiologist for 20 years and now a research professor at Emory University says, “it probably wouldn’t have made a big difference.” “The problem was how the Chinese handled it,” he says."

I could go on and on listing Trump screwups. Follow the link at the top and read.

I expect nothing less from a group that leans pretty hard on open society ideas wanting open borders and left ideas. I can find sites that counter what you say and only blame China but that doesn't tell the whole story just like looking at your site listed doesn't tell the real story.

 

[zeke4ahs]

The 100,000 is totally bogus and the Democrats couldn't wait for that number to come up.

People are being counted if they die WITH the virus - not BECAUSE of the virus. NYC upped their count 3,700 in one day for 'unconfirmed' cases - those who have never been tested.

Even Dr. Birx says she can't get good numbers from the CDC.

The deaths are being undercounted not over counted. There’s no question about that. Many people are dying who have it who have not been tested, especially in the early days. And ridiculous to say anyone is happy about 100,000 deaths.

 

[zeke4ahs]

There are many hard leaners on this board that just wanna argue for an agenda. Still I don't know anyone who has died of just "PURE" covid. Its not even worth arguing over anymore because any argument falls on deaf ears. There are so many theories abound as well that there is more to this than a virus which I have to believe is true because there is too much bullshit tied to something so insignificant. Here comes the what are you talking about insignificant 100,000 dead...Prolly not even 1/5 of that is directly involved with "COVID ONLY". It affects such a small amount of the population (article and link if you wish) that it was never worth shutting down. Precautions taken, but shutting down? No I'll never be sold on what we did.

RedBud is an outdoor motocross event that I thought would be scheduled its over July 4th. Yet, even with people spread out all over hills and land its cancelled. If they cancelled that how are they gonna schedule a football game with people in much closer proximity?

You don’t know anyone who has died of PURE Covid? Where do you live? Maybe you need to get out more?

 

[Rockport Zebra]

I'm gonna try to make a mostly apolitical post.

George W. Bush and Barack Obama both warned of future pandemics. That covers 16 years of presidential administrations. (I bet Bill Clinton did too, but I didn't look it up, and 16 years is enough for my question.) Neither went out and had the federal government purchase warehouses full of PPE and ventilators.

Why?

"Well, they both wanted to let innocent citizens die" is the answer you might get in today's political climate - but I'm suggesting a differenty reason. My suggestion is they didn't do that because it is not the job of the federal government (or the state, or the local) to make sure hospitals have PPE and ventilators. Just like when you go to the ER with a broken arm - its the job of the hospital to be able to give you an x-ray and a cast, or penicillin when you have an infection. The health care providers have been building new wings onto their buidings for the last 30 years. Their Presidents (and others) have been warning them "be ready for a pandemic." If they weren't, its not governments fault.

So when I see/hear/read folks blaming government for that "failure" - I tend to discount that view - and I'm careful about just accepting things those folks say on other issues too. (Now if the VA failed to be ready for war casualties, I'll lead the march. And I'll ask - do you think the private sector would have done better with Agent Orange treatments? Wish I knew.)

So on to my next question - are you suggesting that a President, not a governor, not a mayor, should be THE ENTITY that is empowered to close down things? I will beg to differ. I don't want Trump or anyone federal closing my local school, or my local Kroger, or my local anything else. It's bad enough when a Governor does it.

Here in my state, after 5 months, we have zero deaths in people under 30. We have 3 counties where they don't even have a CASE of virus. Those rural areas shouldn't be treated the same as NYC because their facts are not the same as NYC. No way a federal decision is appropriate for them. Hard enough for a Governor-sized blanket.

In fact, I'm pretty disgusted with NYC. I don't look to them for ANY guidance. The main lesson from the 1917-18 pandemic? DON'T PUT PEOPLE ON TRAINS TO RIDE AROUND AND INFECT EACH OTHER. Why didn't NYC shut down the subway? "Because health care workers need to work." Were non-health care workers allowed to ride the trains? "Well, yes." Why? "They need to work too." Where has the Covid 19 been the absolute WORST in the US? "In NYC and across the river in Newark." Did Trump force the subways to stay open? Nope. Is he getting the blame? Yep. Do I give a crap? Nope.

Now, about those experts - does this sound familiar?:

We have seen no evidence that this virus can pass from animal to human.
Wait. Yes it can. Damn, those ChiComs lied.

But we have seen no evidence that it can pass from human to human.
Wait. Yes it can.

But it can’t pass airborne so masks aren’t needed.
Wait. Yes it can. Yes they are.

The main threat is touching somewhere the virus has landed. Wash your hands,.
Wait. Now it seems it has a hard time doing that touch thing.

The virus is SUPER contagious. One person can be resposible for 335,000 infections in less than 3 weeks because of exponential spread. You and the people you expose can be asymptomtic for up to 14 days and most people won't be symptomatic EVER, but you can spread it like wildfire. We expect between 40% and 70% of the population to become infected.

Wait, In the US, slightly less than 10% of tests are positive - and the number is dropping as testing spreads - 5 months after it spread "at will' for far too long (December to March?) because of our delayed social distancing and even after we started testing with the most vulnerable.

There are 35,000 deaths worldwide, but there will be over 2,000,000 deaths in the US, and our whole medical system everywhere will be overwhelmed - no matter what - because of our delayed social distancing.
Wait. That’s wrong too.

Chlorine kills the virus, so keep swimming pools closed.

Can it be sexually transmitted?
No, according to a Chinese study.
Yes, according to a Chinese study.

If I catch it and survive, like over 98% of all infected persons, will I develop antibodies and immunity like with other viruses?
We don’t know.

If I catch it, get over it, and have antibodies, can I catch it again?
We don’t know.

(There’s only been viruses for millions of years and we only have 5,800,000 examples of this one to study so far - as of today.)

How long will a vaccination take?
Maybe 2-3 years.
No, 18 months.
Wait, maybe by New Years.
Wait, there’s already 90 in process.

Does that malaria drug work?
Yes, in test tubes.
No.
Sometimes.
We don’t know why, when, how or why not.
Don't take it. You'll die
.
(I was prescribed it in 2014 for rheumatoid arthritis. Millions - maybe hundreds of millions - have had it prescribed for malaria. If I wanted an abortion or a heart transplant, the decision would be between me and my doctor. If I just have RA, or malaria, I have to please Trump and his detractors?)

I'm sorry - but I'm not listening to those people anymore.

Am I just a callous murderer of the old and sick and vulnerable?
Nope. I am old and vulnerable.
I have suppressed immunity and 3 other co-morbidities.
Should i blame the governments?
Nah. I don't see it that way.

When a vaccine comes out, I'm gonna get me one.
Until then, I'm washing my hands, wearing my mask, staying away from youngsters (they think they are bullet proof) and hoping for the best.
Why make it worse by giving half my fellow Americans the finger?

Rant paused ... for reflections on our lives:

View embedded media

Instead of poking each other,lets carry each other a while:

View embedded media

Pool hall brother John Limp stated that until you are allowed to visit someone in the hospital then the science says it is not safe.

 

[Champs1976]

Maybe you should get your head out of Trumps rear. You should look in the mirror if you want to find a dumb, brainwashed idiot that believes everything Adolf Trump says. Or maybe the real reason you idolize trump is because you love his racist views.

Lefties like you say things they can never really back up. How is Trump a fascist? What fascistic policies has he implemented? Do you have any real historical knowledge of the Nazi regime, because if you did you would never put Trump in the same sentence as Hitler and Nazis (National Socialist Workers Party). Dems like you are the fascists censoring free speech, removing our Constitutionally guaranteed rights to freedom of religion, freedom from unwarranted search and seizure, property rights, etc. The current rioters, looters and Antifa are the modern day Brownshirts. Read some history of the Third Reich and the US Constitution and try to understand what differentiates Nazi Germany and our country. to use your terminology, get your head out of the mainstream media propagandists rear and stop being a useful idiot for the left.

As for "racist" there is nothing that Trump has said or done (the criticisms of Trump's Charlottesville comments are flat out lies and misrepresentations) and he did more for African-Americans in reducing unemployment in three years than Obama-Biden in eight. If could, he would provide school choice so African-Americans could ditch their poor performing public schools for private options. In support of teachers' unions Obama sentenced kids in D.C. to poor public schools removing their choice. Why are all inner cities in terrible shape - because democrats have run them for decades. Trump hasn't pitted race against race, he wants all people to share in the American dream.

You are a brainwashed uninformed sheep. Google African American Candace Owens and get an alternative view from an African-American of how conservatives view and treat African-Americans and how the truly knowledgeable blacks view what Trump has done and is doing. All Democrats think blacks need government help because deep down they believe blacks are inferior. Trump and conservatives view blacks the way Martin Luther King wanted all people to be judged "by their character, not the color of their skin."

 

[DANC]

The deaths are being undercounted not over counted. There’s no question about that. Many people are dying who have it who have not been tested, especially in the early days. And ridiculous to say anyone is happy about 100,000 deaths.

It's not true just because you say it is.

There are plenty of questions about it, since all deaths are now counted if they have the virus, whether it actually caused the death or not.

 

[DANC]

You don’t know anyone who has died of PURE Covid? Where do you live? Maybe you need to get out more?

He's not the only one. I don't know anyone who has even had/have it.

I live in North Carolina now, but am from Indiana and just visited there last week.