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I'm proud of this team ...

oldcougar77

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Apr 21, 2004
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so go ahead and light me up. Given what we have been confronted with, I think what this staff and team have done is as much as should be expected. We cannot run the football and we do not have enough dynamic playmakers on offense to overcome that. Scoring is a monumental task when that is the case. Scoring against the level of defenses we have played in 5 of the past 6 weeks is herculean.
We are beat up to hell on both sides of the ball, more so than I ever remember. Yet we are in every game into the fourth quarter. Whether you want to accept it or not, this is a well-coached football team on both sides of the ball. We can't catch a damn break with the officiating (though I am not buying the conspiracy theories). Our offensive limitations drastically limit our playbook, with each quarterback having distinct and contradictory weaknesses. Our O-line is young and inexperienced and not physically up to the task of handling the best Big Ten defenses (which we seem to see every single effing week). In my 50+ years of IU fandom, I have never seen the schedule this brutal.

Our defense has been phenomenal given the amount of time they spend on the field and the key injuries we have experienced.

I honestly think we see a drastic improvement in record next year. A year of experience and off-season training will make a huge difference in our O-line. If Hale and Westbrook return healthy, we will be deep and talented at receiver. We have a quality Big Ten running back in Ellison, and will have an experienced QB (though I honestly think that Taylor might challenge for that spot - he's a special talent).

On defense, if we can find serviceable replacements at LB and our underclassmen at the other spots return healthy I don't think the drop off there will be enough to seriously weaken us. This year has been a cluster f%&k of bad luck and brutal scheduling. I am as disappointed as anyone else here with how this season has played out, but I really feel good about next year.

Fire away...
 
so go ahead and light me up. Given what we have been confronted with, I think what this staff and team have done is as much as should be expected. We cannot run the football and we do not have enough dynamic playmakers on offense to overcome that. Scoring is a monumental task when that is the case. Scoring against the level of defenses we have played in 5 of the past 6 weeks is herculean.
We are beat up to hell on both sides of the ball, more so than I ever remember. Yet we are in every game into the fourth quarter. Whether you want to accept it or not, this is a well-coached football team on both sides of the ball. We can't catch a damn break with the officiating (though I am not buying the conspiracy theories). Our offensive limitations drastically limit our playbook, with each quarterback having distinct and contradictory weaknesses. Our O-line is young and inexperienced and not physically up to the task of handling the best Big Ten defenses (which we seem to see every single effing week). In my 50+ years of IU fandom, I have never seen the schedule this brutal.

Our defense has been phenomenal given the amount of time they spend on the field and the key injuries we have experienced.

I honestly think we see a drastic improvement in record next year. A year of experience and off-season training will make a huge difference in our O-line. If Hale and Westbrook return healthy, we will be deep and talented at receiver. We have a quality Big Ten running back in Ellison, and will have an experienced QB (though I honestly think that Taylor might challenge for that spot - he's a special talent).

On defense, if we can find serviceable replacements at LB and our underclassmen at the other spots return healthy I don't think the drop off there will be enough to seriously weaken us. This year has been a cluster f%&k of bad luck and brutal scheduling. I am as disappointed as anyone else here with how this season has played out, but I really feel good about next year.

Fire away...


It's been a long time since we lost 4 defensive players as good as Scales, Covington, Hoff, and Fant. I have to think they'll be a significant drop-off on D, especially for the first 1/2 of the year.

On offense, we'll have a limited QB. As far as RBs, Ellison looks good, but is he going to continue to fumble so much? Will Cobbs be back?

Our overall depth will be better, and the schedule is friendlier. We lose Wisconsin and play more toss-up games at home.

What's bad is that there was so much hype put into 'breakthrough'. What's the slogan for next year? Also, the early returns on this staff are not favorable.

This team isn't much better or worse than last year. In college football, it's hard to plateau. You generally get better or get worse after a couple of years. All-in-all, I feel we're more likely to tank than to get significantly better.
 
so go ahead and light me up. Given what we have been confronted with, I think what this staff and team have done is as much as should be expected. We cannot run the football and we do not have enough dynamic playmakers on offense to overcome that. Scoring is a monumental task when that is the case. Scoring against the level of defenses we have played in 5 of the past 6 weeks is herculean.
We are beat up to hell on both sides of the ball, more so than I ever remember. Yet we are in every game into the fourth quarter. Whether you want to accept it or not, this is a well-coached football team on both sides of the ball. We can't catch a damn break with the officiating (though I am not buying the conspiracy theories). Our offensive limitations drastically limit our playbook, with each quarterback having distinct and contradictory weaknesses. Our O-line is young and inexperienced and not physically up to the task of handling the best Big Ten defenses (which we seem to see every single effing week). In my 50+ years of IU fandom, I have never seen the schedule this brutal.

Our defense has been phenomenal given the amount of time they spend on the field and the key injuries we have experienced.

I honestly think we see a drastic improvement in record next year. A year of experience and off-season training will make a huge difference in our O-line. If Hale and Westbrook return healthy, we will be deep and talented at receiver. We have a quality Big Ten running back in Ellison, and will have an experienced QB (though I honestly think that Taylor might challenge for that spot - he's a special talent).



On defense, if we can find serviceable replacements at LB and our underclassmen at the other spots return healthy I don't think the drop off there will be enough to seriously weaken us. This year has been a cluster f%&k of bad luck and brutal scheduling. I am as disappointed as anyone else here with how this season has played out, but I really feel good about next year.

Fire away...

Nice post but a bit of revisionist history. The Penn State game was over before the end of the first-quarter
 
We have been outscored 49-9 in the 4th quarter the last 3 games. U can be proud of that all u want, but to me, that shows they quit and/or have no fight or heart.
That's ridiculous. Did you ever play the game (or any contact sport) ? I'm pretty sure if you had you wouldn't say something so stupid. Your brain is being overwhelmed by your emotions.

Look at how much time our defense spent on the field in those games. Look at Wisconsin's starting field position in the 4th quarter today. Human beings have physical limitations, even those with the greatest hearts and in the best condition possible. A college football game is a violent, collision-filled marathon. Too few players playing too many snaps is a recipe for fourth quarter collapse. Lack of depth and lack of offense is 100% of this team's problem.
 
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so go ahead and light me up. Given what we have been confronted with, I think what this staff and team have done is as much as should be expected. We cannot run the football and we do not have enough dynamic playmakers on offense to overcome that. Scoring is a monumental task when that is the case. Scoring against the level of defenses we have played in 5 of the past 6 weeks is herculean.
We are beat up to hell on both sides of the ball, more so than I ever remember. Yet we are in every game into the fourth quarter. Whether you want to accept it or not, this is a well-coached football team on both sides of the ball. We can't catch a damn break with the officiating (though I am not buying the conspiracy theories). Our offensive limitations drastically limit our playbook, with each quarterback having distinct and contradictory weaknesses. Our O-line is young and inexperienced and not physically up to the task of handling the best Big Ten defenses (which we seem to see every single effing week). In my 50+ years of IU fandom, I have never seen the schedule this brutal.

Our defense has been phenomenal given the amount of time they spend on the field and the key injuries we have experienced.

I honestly think we see a drastic improvement in record next year. A year of experience and off-season training will make a huge difference in our O-line. If Hale and Westbrook return healthy, we will be deep and talented at receiver. We have a quality Big Ten running back in Ellison, and will have an experienced QB (though I honestly think that Taylor might challenge for that spot - he's a special talent).

On defense, if we can find serviceable replacements at LB and our underclassmen at the other spots return healthy I don't think the drop off there will be enough to seriously weaken us. This year has been a cluster f%&k of bad luck and brutal scheduling. I am as disappointed as anyone else here with how this season has played out, but I really feel good about next year.

Fire away...
You make several good points, but I'll add this.

I think the drop off on defense next year will be more significant than what you're suggesting. The offense is going to have to be much better in order to offset the defensive decline. I'm not arguing that the defense will return to the dumpster fire days of previous (prior to 2016) years but, given who's leaving after this season, I believe a drop off is inevitable.

I also believe it's critically important for the future of this program that it wins the three remaining games this season. We are desperately in need of some momentum heading into the signing periods, along with the renewed confidence, sense of accomplishment, and extra practices that a bowl berth would provide.

It's not too late to salvage the season, but that requires a 3-0 run to close things out this month.
 
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Nice post but a bit of revisionist history. The Penn State game was over before the end of the first-quarter
And it is the only outlier among all of our conference games in that regard. And it was over because of poor special teams play and a turnover that led to another score. Even at that, we got back into the game in the second quarter but could not sustain any offense after halftime.
 
We have been outscored 49-9 in the 4th quarter the last 3 games. U can be proud of that all u want, but to me, that shows they quit and/or have no fight or heart.
That or could it be a result of our lack of depth????? Or our offensive woes? Just a thought.
 
I agree with you about being proud of the defense. They've played very hard, but if they're what you're making them out to be, they'll hold down bad teams these next three weeks and win out.

I also don't really share your optimism about next year. Indiana is losing some really nice players on that side, no way in hell iu has anyone in the wings to match the production of those graduating, I promise.

Look, if they're ever going to win in this league, they need a system and an identity, a la Iowa/Whisky. They need to get their dick out of a basketball long enough to build a little football culture, too.
 
That's ridiculous. Did you ever play the game (or any contact sport) ? I'm pretty sure if you had you wouldn't say something so stupid. Your brain is being overwhelmed by your emotions.

Look at how much time our defense spent on the field in those games. Look at Wisconsin's starting field position in the 4th quarter today. Human beings have physical limitations, even those with the greatest hearts and in the best condition possible. A college football game is a violent, collision-filled marathon. Too few players playing too many snaps is a recipe for fourth quarter collapse. Lack of depth and lack of offense is 100% of this team's problem.


OK, but kindly explain how Illinois and Purdue were able to avoid a total collapse against the same team.
 
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That's ridiculous. Did you ever play the game (or any contact sport) ? I'm pretty sure if you had you wouldn't say something so stupid. Your brain is being overwhelmed by your emotions.

Look at how much time our defense spent on the field in those games. Look at Wisconsin's starting field position in the 4th quarter today. Human beings have physical limitations, even those with the greatest hearts and in the best condition possible. A college football game is a violent, collision-filled marathon. Too few players playing too many snaps is a recipe for fourth quarter collapse. Lack of depth and lack of offense is 100% of this team's problem.
Wtf r u talking about? Yeah I've "played the game"....more than u, I'm sure. Idc what r average field position was. Blame the offense, the special teams, defense....I don't give a crap. Bottom line is we have been outscored 49-9. That freaking sucks. Raise ur standards, for crying out loud. That is nothing to be proud of. But go ahead and call me stupid, if that makes u feel better. I will just take solace in the fact that I am at least not as stupid as u.
 
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OK, but kindly explain how Illinois and Purdue were able to avoid a total collapse against the same team.
As I mentioned in another thread, look where we were at the beginning of the 4th quarter and then what happened. The game turned into a rout on turnovers and a short field.

I didn't see the Illinois game, but weather was a definite factor in the Purdue game. And if I'm not mistaken, Wisky turned it over a couple of times. Plus, Purdue is better than a lot of us here would like to admit. Like us, they lack depth and offensive playmakers. They also have lost games late but have had the luxury of not getting shit-kicked by OSU, PSU, and MSU. I would happily have traded our schedule thus far in conference play for theirs.
 
Wtf r u talking about? Yeah I've "played the game"....more than u, I'm sure. Idc what r average field position was. Blame the offense, the special teams, defense....I don't give a crap. Bottom line is we have been outscored 49-9. That freaking sucks. Raise ur standards, for crying out loud. That is nothing to be proud of. But go ahead and call me stupid, if that makes u feel better. I will just take solace in the fact that I am at least not as stupid as u.
I sincerely doubt that you've played much. If you did, you didn't study the game and learn much.
Losing does suck. No question. But raising my standards or expectations as a fan doesn't make this team or IU's situation any different. We are where we are because our players aren't good enough at this point. Not because our coaches aren't good enough. That's my point. If I thought changing coaches at this point or after the season would make us better next year I would be screaming it from the rooftop. But coaching isn't the problem this year, it's talent. The coaches will rightfully be evaluated by their ability to recruit better talent and develop it. Not because the fans have unrealistic expectations of the talent on the current roster.
And for the record, I didn't call you stupid. I pointed out that your comment was stupid. It was. It doesn't make me feel better, but it's the truth.
 
Wtf r u talking about? Yeah I've "played the game"....more than u, I'm sure. Idc what r average field position was. Blame the offense, the special teams, defense....I don't give a crap. Bottom line is we have been outscored 49-9. That freaking sucks. Raise ur standards, for crying out loud. That is nothing to be proud of. But go ahead and call me stupid, if that makes u feel better. I will just take solace in the fact that I am at least not as stupid as u.

Try raising your standards regarding your butchery of the English langauge...
 
This goes back to something simple that CKW used to harp on... the team that wins is going to be the team that rushes the ball better in the Big Ten. You go back to recent IU wins, and they outran teams. This is 100% on the O-line and it was obvious during the OSU game. At a certain point it wasn’t about talent, but about the fact that there is zero continuity with this offensive line. If you have no continuity, you aren’t going to win. It’s that simple.

So these results are expected. The key difference between 15’, 16’ and 17’ is that IU could run the ball then, and now we cannot. The defense is going to be decent even with the losses, and you return enough players up front. At LB, having Walton and Willis will be big. Don’t forget that prior to this season Willis played more than Covington. Covington kind of rose quickly in the off-season, but Willis has had quality minutes the past three seasons, and started over Covington in the Bowl game when Oliver was injured. Walton will be penciled in at Weakside Linebacker and should be serviceable. Upfront, IU is losing less talent than in previous years, as long as everyone remains healthy. Fant can be replaced as well, and means Ashon Riggons will see a rise in playing time.

So in closing, it’s going to come down to the O-line again and whether or not they gain continuity in the off-season. If you can’t win the rushing battle, you simply aren’t going to win in the Big Ten consistently. We already knew that this would be a weakness headed into 17’. I do think that we are fine at Running Back. Ellison is no less talented than Devine Redding. But look at who Redding ran behind, and look at who Ellison runs behind. The O-Line is not getting anyone who can come in and contribute right away either, so IU is going to have to get better with the same guys who are playing now, and that’s very possible.
 
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so go ahead and light me up. Given what we have been confronted with, I think what this staff and team have done is as much as should be expected. We cannot run the football and we do not have enough dynamic playmakers on offense to overcome that. Scoring is a monumental task when that is the case. Scoring against the level of defenses we have played in 5 of the past 6 weeks is herculean.
We are beat up to hell on both sides of the ball, more so than I ever remember. Yet we are in every game into the fourth quarter. Whether you want to accept it or not, this is a well-coached football team on both sides of the ball. We can't catch a damn break with the officiating (though I am not buying the conspiracy theories). Our offensive limitations drastically limit our playbook, with each quarterback having distinct and contradictory weaknesses. Our O-line is young and inexperienced and not physically up to the task of handling the best Big Ten defenses (which we seem to see every single effing week). In my 50+ years of IU fandom, I have never seen the schedule this brutal.

Our defense has been phenomenal given the amount of time they spend on the field and the key injuries we have experienced.

I honestly think we see a drastic improvement in record next year. A year of experience and off-season training will make a huge difference in our O-line. If Hale and Westbrook return healthy, we will be deep and talented at receiver. We have a quality Big Ten running back in Ellison, and will have an experienced QB (though I honestly think that Taylor might challenge for that spot - he's a special talent).

On defense, if we can find serviceable replacements at LB and our underclassmen at the other spots return healthy I don't think the drop off there will be enough to seriously weaken us. This year has been a cluster f%&k of bad luck and brutal scheduling. I am as disappointed as anyone else here with how this season has played out, but I really feel good about next year.

Fire away...

I'll have what he's injecting
 
I agree, this is the best 1st Qtr team IU has ever had. If you just quit watching after that, you'll believe we are a very good team.

#breakdown #LEOsucks #taglinesareforlosers #Samechitdifferentyear #YoungerOCplease.
 
so go ahead and light me up. Given what we have been confronted with, I think what this staff and team have done is as much as should be expected. We cannot run the football and we do not have enough dynamic playmakers on offense to overcome that. Scoring is a monumental task when that is the case. Scoring against the level of defenses we have played in 5 of the past 6 weeks is herculean.
We are beat up to hell on both sides of the ball, more so than I ever remember. Yet we are in every game into the fourth quarter. Whether you want to accept it or not, this is a well-coached football team on both sides of the ball. We can't catch a damn break with the officiating (though I am not buying the conspiracy theories). Our offensive limitations drastically limit our playbook, with each quarterback having distinct and contradictory weaknesses. Our O-line is young and inexperienced and not physically up to the task of handling the best Big Ten defenses (which we seem to see every single effing week). In my 50+ years of IU fandom, I have never seen the schedule this brutal.

Our defense has been phenomenal given the amount of time they spend on the field and the key injuries we have experienced.

I honestly think we see a drastic improvement in record next year. A year of experience and off-season training will make a huge difference in our O-line. If Hale and Westbrook return healthy, we will be deep and talented at receiver. We have a quality Big Ten running back in Ellison, and will have an experienced QB (though I honestly think that Taylor might challenge for that spot - he's a special talent).

On defense, if we can find serviceable replacements at LB and our underclassmen at the other spots return healthy I don't think the drop off there will be enough to seriously weaken us. This year has been a cluster f%&k of bad luck and brutal scheduling. I am as disappointed as anyone else here with how this season has played out, but I really feel good about next year.

Fire away...
Well said. The problem is it has been said before, in just different versions over decades of disappointment. Always too young, too injured, too victimized by bad officiating, too lacking in play-makers, and of course, too up against it because of a tough schedule. An experienced quarterback will be a good thing only if it is the right guy for the job. Not sure about that. If we were going to go 0-6 in the B1G, we might as well have stuck with Richard over Peyton. Rumored improvement never translates to more wins on the field. Not trying to slam you for being optimistic, its just been year after year of What ifs that never materialize.
 
As I mentioned in another thread, look where we were at the beginning of the 4th quarter and then what happened. The game turned into a rout on turnovers and a short field.

I didn't see the Illinois game, but weather was a definite factor in the Purdue game. And if I'm not mistaken, Wisky turned it over a couple of times. Plus, Purdue is better than a lot of us here would like to admit. Like us, they lack depth and offensive playmakers. They also have lost games late but have had the luxury of not getting shit-kicked by OSU, PSU, and MSU. I would happily have traded our schedule thus far in conference play for theirs.
You are certainly the excuse-meister,. You need to be able to aspire to compete with the Big Boys, not boo hoo over the fact that you have to play them. Maybe they should go independent and play nothing but Georgia Southerns.
 
I sincerely doubt that you've played much. If you did, you didn't study the game and learn much.
Losing does suck. No question. But raising my standards or expectations as a fan doesn't make this team or IU's situation any different. We are where we are because our players aren't good enough at this point. Not because our coaches aren't good enough. That's my point. If I thought changing coaches at this point or after the season would make us better next year I would be screaming it from the rooftop. But coaching isn't the problem this year, it's talent. The coaches will rightfully be evaluated by their ability to recruit better talent and develop it. Not because the fans have unrealistic expectations of the talent on the current roster.
And for the record, I didn't call you stupid. I pointed out that your comment was stupid. It was. It doesn't make me feel better, but it's the truth.
Sure buddy, if u say so. i could point out how ur going on and on about something I never even mentioned, but why bother? There is a reason u did that, so maybe I should be more understanding. Regardless.....49-9
 
Well said. The problem is it has been said before, in just different versions over decades of disappointment. Always too young, too injured, too victimized by bad officiating, too lacking in play-makers, and of course, too up against it because of a tough schedule. An experienced quarterback will be a good thing only if it is the right guy for the job. Not sure about that. If we were going to go 0-6 in the B1G, we might as well have stuck with Richard over Peyton. Rumored improvement never translates to more wins on the field. Not trying to slam you for being optimistic, its just been year after year of What ifs that never materialize.
Agreed. And part of that narrative is coaching turnover. Hoosier fans should know that better than anyone, yet people on here are already calling for Allen and DeBoard's heads after nine games. It took Wilson five years to move the needle and if he was fired for not winning enough, it was a stupid move. I'm not as cynical or as negative on Fred Glass as some here, so I assume he was fired with just cause. If so, that's just another bad break in the IU football saga.

I do believe sincerely we will be much better next year. I think a mature, experienced O-line is the greatest difference maker in college football. It matters a hell of a lot more than anything else. Defensively, you have to have as good or better athletes as the other team and instill discipline in their play. Wilson was able to recruit better athletes, Allen has instilled the discipline and we finally have a competent defense.

I don't think the decision to play Ramsey in place of Lagow was as much a lack of confidence in RL as it was the realization that our OL struggles required mobility at that position. Lagow's lack of mobility means too many negative plays and contributes to his turnover problems. Ramsey simply can avoid bad situations a little better. With the other limitations we have on offense, we have to stay out of second-and-long, third-and-long situations. Bottom line, both guys would look much better playing behind a better line. And Mike DeBord would look like a much better coach if our O-line could block.
 
Agreed. And part of that narrative is coaching turnover. Hoosier fans should know that better than anyone, yet people on here are already calling for Allen and DeBoard's heads after nine games. It took Wilson five years to move the needle and if he was fired for not winning enough, it was a stupid move. I'm not as cynical or as negative on Fred Glass as some here, so I assume he was fired with just cause. If so, that's just another bad break in the IU football saga.

I do believe sincerely we will be much better next year. I think a mature, experienced O-line is the greatest difference maker in college football. It matters a hell of a lot more than anything else. Defensively, you have to have as good or better athletes as the other team and instill discipline in their play. Wilson was able to recruit better athletes, Allen has instilled the discipline and we finally have a competent defense.

I don't think the decision to play Ramsey in place of Lagow was as much a lack of confidence in RL as it was the realization that our OL struggles required mobility at that position. Lagow's lack of mobility means too many negative plays and contributes to his turnover problems. Ramsey simply can avoid bad situations a little better. With the other limitations we have on offense, we have to stay out of second-and-long, third-and-long situations. Bottom line, both guys would look much better playing behind a better line. And Mike DeBord would look like a much better coach if our O-line could block.

Agreed, coaching turnover hurts you unless you actually hire the right coaches which obviously IU has never done considering they've lost more games than 99% of all other programs. No reason not to waste another 5-6 years with Allen and staff like we did Wilson. We've not won up to this point, 5-6 more years won't hurt us.
 
Agreed. And part of that narrative is coaching turnover. Hoosier fans should know that better than anyone, yet people on here are already calling for Allen and DeBoard's heads after nine games. It took Wilson five years to move the needle and if he was fired for not winning enough, it was a stupid move. I'm not as cynical or as negative on Fred Glass as some here, so I assume he was fired with just cause. If so, that's just another bad break in the IU football saga.

I do believe sincerely we will be much better next year. I think a mature, experienced O-line is the greatest difference maker in college football. It matters a hell of a lot more than anything else. Defensively, you have to have as good or better athletes as the other team and instill discipline in their play. Wilson was able to recruit better athletes, Allen has instilled the discipline and we finally have a competent defense.

I don't think the decision to play Ramsey in place of Lagow was as much a lack of confidence in RL as it was the realization that our OL struggles required mobility at that position. Lagow's lack of mobility means too many negative plays and contributes to his turnover problems. Ramsey simply can avoid bad situations a little better. With the other limitations we have on offense, we have to stay out of second-and-long, third-and-long situations. Bottom line, both guys would look much better playing behind a better line. And Mike DeBord would look like a much better coach if our O-line could block.
The simple fact that the line will be a year older next year is far from a guarantee of their development and success. The rest is nothing but wishful cliches from a football novice.
 
The simple fact that the line will be a year older next year is far from a guarantee of their development and success. The rest is nothing but wishful cliches from a football novice.
Welcome back EWEZRFAN1
 
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