If masks and social distancing don't work, why is the flu at an all time record low in the US?

jet812

All-Big Ten
Feb 28, 2008
3,670
2,369
113
From the AP:
Flu has virtually disappeared from the U.S., with reports coming in at far lower levels than anything seen in decades.
Experts say that measures put in place to fend off the coronavirus — mask wearing, social distancing and virtual schooling — were a big factor in preventing a “twindemic” of flu and COVID-19. A push to get more people vaccinated against flu probably helped, too, as did fewer people traveling, they say.
Nationally, “this is the lowest flu season we’ve had on record,” according to a surveillance system that is about 25 years old, said Lynnette Brammer of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.


You should become a shut in...
 

iuwclurker

All-American
Jul 6, 2015
6,106
2,293
113
Co-sign but "work" is a relative term. Masks were politicized and imho their benefits greatly exaggerated. One can compare counties with mask mandates vs those neighboring counties without mask mandates as well as states with and without and see no material difference. Calif/Ny to Tx/Fla is illustrative. IMO this thing moved like a wildfire and if you were a "hotspot" little short of staying home was going to make a difference - masks certainly didn't. Anecdotal - every family member wore masks religiously and every one of us got covid. We also until very recently never ate out; never went to bars; etc. Most of my friends and extended family have had it as well - all religiously wore masks.
Your mask can’t withstand your extreme cardio…
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcmurtry66

iuwclurker

All-American
Jul 6, 2015
6,106
2,293
113
Will be interesting to see. I guess they’ll gauge productivity and decide over time, coupled with office lease savings. I have to say tho ranger I’m going a little insane working from home. I went from suit pants and dress shirts to sweats and t shirts with a number on the back. There’s also little order to the day. Just blends together....I think a fair number will want to go back to the office
In a nutshell, you went from being a number to being a number.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcmurtry66

iuwclurker

All-American
Jul 6, 2015
6,106
2,293
113
I don’t know how many will switch everyone to full time from home and shutter offices. I think it’ll be a hybrid approach. I see companies downsizing their office footprints a bit but still having meeting spaces available for meeting in person. There is still no substitute for in-person collaboration.
In office was so essential at Microsoft that years ago they started serving banquets in meeting rooms to keep the programmers from going offsite for meals. The employees got absolutely incredible food for free and talked shop, which they love to do anyway, throughout the meal.
 

outside shooter

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Oct 23, 2001
19,864
7,340
113
Masks were politicized and imho their benefits greatly exaggerated.
I don't think that they were exaggerated at all, by the scientists. They reduce the droplet field, thus they reduce transmission risk. They don't eliminate transmission risk, but nobody except for critics of them ever claimed that anyone ever thought that they eliminated transmission.

The point always was that if the R-naught, the number of secondary infections arising from an infected individual, dropped by any significant amount, then the public health benefits would be enormous. Whether that drop was 20%, 40%, 60%, or more, any effect would greatly shift the magnitude of the outbreak.

Even with proper fitting and high-tech masks for all, 100% effectiveness was not achieveable. But even 30% effectiveness, beginning with 90% of people wearing masks a year ago, would have saved at least tens of thousands of lives, if not hundered of thousands of lives.

But we were stuck at 50% mask wearers for so, so long. Now we seem to be in the 70% area, so we have a better-late-than-never benefit.

As to your claim that mask wearing mandate areas are no different than non-mandate areas nearby, I only know of one study, and the result was the opposite. Mask mandates in Kansas were beneficial.

 
  • Like
Reactions: IU_Hickory

mcmurtry66

All-American
Gold Member
Mar 14, 2019
8,877
6,876
113
I don't think that they were exaggerated at all, by the scientists. They reduce the droplet field, thus they reduce transmission risk. They don't eliminate transmission risk, but nobody except for critics of them ever claimed that anyone ever thought that they eliminated transmission.

The point always was that if the R-naught, the number of secondary infections arising from an infected individual, dropped by any significant amount, then the public health benefits would be enormous. Whether that drop was 20%, 40%, 60%, or more, any effect would greatly shift the magnitude of the outbreak.

Even with proper fitting and high-tech masks for all, 100% effectiveness was not achieveable. But even 30% effectiveness, beginning with 90% of people wearing masks a year ago, would have saved at least tens of thousands of lives, if not hundered of thousands of lives.

But we were stuck at 50% mask wearers for so, so long. Now we seem to be in the 70% area, so we have a better-late-than-never benefit.

As to your claim that mask wearing mandate areas are no different than non-mandate areas nearby, I only know of one study, and the result was the opposite. Mask mandates in Kansas were beneficial.

You don’t need a study. You can look it up yourself. Compare Saint Charles county numbers to Saint Louis county. Compare Florida to California and adjust for population.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DANC

iuwclurker

All-American
Jul 6, 2015
6,106
2,293
113
You don’t need a study. You can look it up yourself. Compare Saint Charles county numbers to Saint Louis county. Compare Florida to California and adjust for population.
The reason and choice to wear a mask is to not spread covid to others. It’s the socially responsible decision to make. You’re attempting to rationalize irresponsibility.

In April 2020 the opposite reactions of Trump’s reality show briefings dismissing the virus and the business world taking it seriously were striking.

Business rapidly shifted to serving the trapped locked-down citizenry. They didn’t rationalize, they acted. I’m thankful.
 

mcmurtry66

All-American
Gold Member
Mar 14, 2019
8,877
6,876
113
The reason and choice to wear a mask is to not spread covid to others. It’s the socially responsible decision to make. You’re attempting to rationalize irresponsibility.

In April 2020 the opposite reactions of Trump’s reality show briefings dismissing the virus and the business world taking it seriously were striking.

Business rapidly shifted to serving the trapped locked-down citizenry. They didn’t rationalize, they acted. I’m thankful.
Wrong per usual. I’m all for wearing a mask. If nothing else as an act of solidarity. That said they were politicized and their benefits exaggerated - for myriad reasons. We have nearly a year of data now. County to county and state to state comparisons. In my view rag on trump, justifiably, but I suspect republican states had better outcomes than dem states when you factor in the benefits of staying more open.
 

iuwclurker

All-American
Jul 6, 2015
6,106
2,293
113
Co-sign but "work" is a relative term. Masks were politicized and imho their benefits greatly exaggerated. One can compare counties with mask mandates vs those neighboring counties without mask mandates as well as states with and without and see no material difference. Calif/Ny to Tx/Fla is illustrative. IMO this thing moved like a wildfire and if you were a "hotspot" little short of staying home was going to make a difference - masks certainly didn't. Anecdotal - every family member wore masks religiously and every one of us got covid. We also until very recently never ate out; never went to bars; etc. Most of my friends and extended family have had it as well - all religiously wore masks.
The primary function of a mask is to prevent you from spreading it to someone else. The way you prevent yourself from getting it is to do proper hygiene such as washing hands, not touching your face with your hands and so forth and social distancing. If you’re talking about your family getting it, then the appropriate information is did you socially distance and did you properly use hygiene?
 

iuwclurker

All-American
Jul 6, 2015
6,106
2,293
113
Wrong per usual. I’m all for wearing a mask. If nothing else as an act of solidarity. That said they were politicized and their benefits exaggerated - for myriad reasons. We have nearly a year of data now. County to county and state to state comparisons. In my view rag on trump, justifiably, but I suspect republican states had better outcomes than dem states when you factor in the benefits of staying more open.
lol

You’re the only person I’m in any sort of communication with who Seems to think masks are an end-all Prevent-all for Covid. Frankly, I’m not surprised everyone in your family got Covid. I don’t know about the rest of them but you sure don’t seem to get the idea of the full protocol.
 

mcmurtry66

All-American
Gold Member
Mar 14, 2019
8,877
6,876
113
The primary function of a mask is to prevent you from spreading it to someone else. The way you prevent yourself from getting it is to do proper hygiene such as washing hands, not touching your face with your hands and so forth and social distancing. If you’re talking about your family getting it, then the appropriate information is did you socially distance and did you properly use hygiene?
Gibberish. If there’s a 2 percent benefit in wearing masks I’m all for it. The benefit of masks was politicized and exaggerated. We can look at the data between neighboring counties with and without mask orders as well as states and see as much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DANC

mcmurtry66

All-American
Gold Member
Mar 14, 2019
8,877
6,876
113
lol

You’re the only person I’m in any sort of communication with who Seems to think masks are an end-all Prevent-all for Covid. Frankly, I’m not surprised everyone in your family got Covid. I don’t know about the rest of them but you sure don’t seem to get the idea of the full protocol.

Didn’t say any of that. You truly are a moron. I said exaggerated and you reply with prevent all. What a dumb F you are. Total moron.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DANC

iuwclurker

All-American
Jul 6, 2015
6,106
2,293
113
Gibberish. If there’s a 2 percent benefit in wearing masks I’m all for it. The benefit of masks was politicized and exaggerated. We can look at the data between neighboring counties with and without mask orders as well as states and see as much.
Explain this gibberish, please, if you will. Why have surgeons been wearing masks and latex gloves since the beginning of time? Is it because they’re vulnerable to disease in that situation or because the patient with their body cut open vulnerable?

Furthermore, please explain how it’s relevant whether or not masks are politicized in that context.
 

mcmurtry66

All-American
Gold Member
Mar 14, 2019
8,877
6,876
113
Explain this gibberish, please, if you will. Why have surgeons been wearing masks and latex gloves since the beginning of time? Is it because they’re vulnerable to disease in that situation or because the patient with their body cut open vulnerable?

Furthermore, please explain how it’s relevant whether or not masks are politicized in that context.
Go F yourself. You’re a moron. You don’t change what people say and expect a discussion. GFY
 

mcmurtry66

All-American
Gold Member
Mar 14, 2019
8,877
6,876
113
You’re a chickenshit. You can’t face that you fvcked up. You think Covid did it to you. Victim.
No you're a worthless poster. It's why people have you on ignore. There is nothing more despicable on this board than you - a poster who changes what the other poster writes to fit their own narrative. The lowest form of poster. I wrote "exaggerated" and you replied end-all prevent-all etc. No one said that. Not even close. Mods should ban behavior like that because it does nothing but derail discussions. And that's all you do in your posts. Again, that is truly the worst kind of poster on this board.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DANC

Bulk VanderHuge

All-American
Dec 20, 2017
7,153
8,537
113
The Southern Sun
that-escalated-quickly.jpg
 

iuwclurker

All-American
Jul 6, 2015
6,106
2,293
113
No you're a worthless poster. It's why people have you on ignore. There is nothing more despicable on this board than you - a poster who changes what the other poster writes to fit their own narrative. The lowest form of poster. I wrote "exaggerated" and you replied end-all prevent-all etc. No one said that. Not even close. Mods should ban behavior like that because it does nothing but derail discussions. And that's all you do in your posts. Again, that is truly the worst kind of poster on this board.
lol

Triviality in the scope of the discussion. My basic point on that part of the discussion remains, you have masks backwards, at least your argument in this thread has masks backwards. Their function is not to stop you from getting Covid, their functionto stop you from giving Covid. Your argument has that ass-backwards.

You can’t deny this. Your example, which you admit is anecdotal, fine, is that masks didn’t stop you and your family from getting Covid. Duh.

Oh and by the way, the worst type of poster in existence is the one that denigrates other people, dehumanizes other people, and basically tries to nullify people. In fact that’s the worst kind of human being there is.
 

mcmurtry66

All-American
Gold Member
Mar 14, 2019
8,877
6,876
113
lol

Triviality in the scope of the discussion. My basic point on that part of the discussion remains, you have masks backwards, at least your argument in this thread has masks backwards. Their function is not to stop you from getting Covid, their functionto stop you from giving Covid. Your argument has that ass-backwards.

You can’t deny this. Your example, which you admit is anecdotal, fine, is that masks didn’t stop you and your family from getting Covid. Duh.

Oh and by the way, the worst type of poster in existence is the one that denigrates other people, dehumanizes other people, and basically tries to nullify people. In fact that’s the worst kind of human being there is.
YOu're a shit poster because you add things people didn't say. This is what I said:
1. The benefit of masks are exaggerated. Look up what that means versus your End-all Prevent-all inclusion.
2. I said review the statistics county by county state by state with and without mask orders.

Then you add all of the other stuff while also changing what people wrote to fit what ever predeterimined thing you wanted to write. That is a shitty poster and makes discussion impossible. You simply cannot stay on topic. The benefit of masks are exaggerated if you look at the data in areas where masks were mandated versus no mandate orders. That's it. The topic. You are a shit poster. A moronic gadfly
 
  • Like
Reactions: DANC

iuwclurker

All-American
Jul 6, 2015
6,106
2,293
113
This is what I said:
1. The benefit of masks are exaggerated. Look up what that means versus your End-all Prevent-all inclusion.
2. I said review the statistics county by county state by state with and without mask orders
Exactly. You talk about masks. Masks are one part of the overall covid protocol. Implementing the entire protocol is what works. The NFL implemented the entire protocol. They didn’t just implement masks. They didn’t do studies on masks. They didn’t collect data on masks. They didn’t compare their mask with other masks. Or their implementation of mask with other implementations to masks.

Talking about masks in the absence of the rest of the protocol is pointless.


Get it?
 

mcmurtry66

All-American
Gold Member
Mar 14, 2019
8,877
6,876
113
Exactly. You talk about masks. Masks are one part of the overall covid protocol. Implementing the entire protocol is what works. The NFL implemented the entire protocol. They didn’t just implement masks. They didn’t do studies on masks. They didn’t collect data on masks. They didn’t compare their mask with other masks. Or their implementation of mask with other implementations to masks.

Talking about masks in the absence of the rest of the protocol is pointless.


Get it?
When you alter what people say to fit your own narrative you become a gadfly unworthy of discussion. We’re done.
 

iuwclurker

All-American
Jul 6, 2015
6,106
2,293
113
When you alter what people say to fit your own narrative you become a gadfly unworthy of discussion. We’re done.
Upwards of a year now several of us here at the water cooler have discussed the full protocol as the scientific approach to addressing Covid. Forgive me if I interpreted your today’s focus on mask data as you ignoring the full protocol and having a end-all View of masks. Forgive me if your anecdotal example of masks failing to protect you which is specious and erroneous idea gave me the impression that you view it as an end-all technique. If you assert that you don’t view it that way, fine, I believe you. Note that I didn’t repeat it. I only said it once.

Meanwhile, let’s not pretend that I didn’t pulverize your argument.
 

mcmurtry66

All-American
Gold Member
Mar 14, 2019
8,877
6,876
113
Upwards of a year now several of us here at the water cooler have discussed the full protocol as the scientific approach to addressing Covid. Forgive me if I interpreted your today’s focus on mask data as you ignoring the full protocol and having a end-all View of masks. Forgive me if your anecdotal example of masks failing to protect you which is specious and erroneous idea gave me the impression that you view it as an end-all technique. If you assert that you don’t view it that way, fine, I believe you. Note that I didn’t repeat it. I only said it once.

Meanwhile, let’s not pretend that I didn’t pulverize your argument.
non responsive gadfly
 

Bulk VanderHuge

All-American
Dec 20, 2017
7,153
8,537
113
The Southern Sun
When you alter what people say to fit your own narrative you become a gadfly unworthy of discussion. We’re done.
Gadfly? Really, gramps? :)

By the way, one non-insect definition of "gadfly" is someone who upsets the status quo by criticizing authority.

P.S. Socrates was known as "the gadfly of Athens". Don't you lawyers get all giddy over Socrates and his method?

Okay, I'm done.
 

mcmurtry66

All-American
Gold Member
Mar 14, 2019
8,877
6,876
113
Gadfly? Really, gramps? :)

By the way, one non-insect definition of "gadfly" is someone who upsets the status quo by criticizing authority.

P.S. Socrates was known as "the gadfly of Athens". Don't you lawyers get all giddy over Socrates and his method?

Okay, I'm done.
I'm not using that definition! I'm using the annoying person who provokes.
But yes a very gramps like word! lol
 

iuwclurker

All-American
Jul 6, 2015
6,106
2,293
113
non responsive gadfly
For someone who admires COHoosier or reveres or idolizes or however you wish to describe your position, it’s interesting that he more than anyone here has crusaded against ad hominem. If you observe his posting over the years he has most lived by the adage of respecting the poster and responding to the content.
 

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
26,257
12,004
113
I am a mask guy (although I may still be in trouble right now) but no shaking hands and millions of empty offices and school desks haven't hurt this statistic.
 

mashnut

Sophomore
Feb 22, 2018
854
1,035
93
Absolutely. Though I think we’re going to see a lot of large employers switch their workforce to remote work into perpetuity.

I hope that is accurate. I still know a lot of people that hate the idea, too many are stuck on "that isn't the way I learned to work".

Personally, there are some tasks I do better at home and some from the office. Hard activities that require focus, home is great. Boring repetitive work, too many possible distractions

I don’t know how many will switch everyone to full time from home and shutter offices. I think it’ll be a hybrid approach. I see companies downsizing their office footprints a bit but still having meeting spaces available for meeting in person. There is still no substitute for in-person collaboration.

There's a reckoning coming. The two "easy" models to figure out collaboration are fully co-located and fully remote. Either one puts everyone on the same footing and using the same communication strategies. I think a lot of companies will go back and implement a poorly-thought out hybrid model, one that sets up lots of interactions that look like "small number of remote employees calling into HQ" which is the absolute worst kind of meeting. I think a year from now there will be a ton of articles out there about how "remote doesn't work any more" thanks to those kinds of poor implementations that ignore the power differential of a colocated team with remote members.

For my team I'm looking at a model where teams would choose a day or two a week to come in together and otherwise be remote, so they can collaborate in person at times, and the rest of the time be on equal footing with one another by all collaborating remotely. I assume whatever we do will not work perfectly and we'll have to adapt, but I personally believe a mixed model can be really effective, but you need real intentionality about how you structure communication and the tools and physical space to enable it.
 

Crossblock

Junior
Jan 8, 2019
1,390
2,103
113
For years, the Health industry has developed a vaccine each year to prevent against the most widely anticipated strain of flu, and people (at least in the highest risk groups) are used to getting the shot every year. Does it always work? NO. Last year I had the Shot and had a very mild case of the flu-fever, headache, cold.
This year you have people who have received the flu vaccine are wearing masks due to COVID, and if they are like Us, avoiding large gatherings like Church, or family birthdays with a large number of people. Therefore, exposure is down especially as we are spending more time at Home.

I also wonder how many cases of flu are being reported as COVID. At one point, I heard that health Facilities were receiving stipends from the Federal Government for each Case of COVID reported. If nobody is double checking the findings, who can say whether COVID is being intentionally over reported while flu cases are under reported as a result,
 

Spartans9312

Senior
Nov 11, 2004
2,595
1,526
113
For years, the Health industry has developed a vaccine each year to prevent against the most widely anticipated strain of flu, and people (at least in the highest risk groups) are used to getting the shot every year. Does it always work? NO. Last year I had the Shot and had a very mild case of the flu-fever, headache, cold.
This year you have people who have received the flu vaccine are wearing masks due to COVID, and if they are like Us, avoiding large gatherings like Church, or family birthdays with a large number of people. Therefore, exposure is down especially as we are spending more time at Home.

I also wonder how many cases of flu are being reported as COVID. At one point, I heard that health Facilities were receiving stipends from the Federal Government for each Case of COVID reported. If nobody is double checking the findings, who can say whether COVID is being intentionally over reported while flu cases are under reported as a result,
I know a Doc that tests for flu every time he has tested patient for Covid. Zero positive flu. A bunch of positive Covid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cortez88