I see a lot of post on starting

[37Hoosier]

line-ups and playing time but one name I seldom see mentioned is Race Thompson....

Does anyone have any progress reports on him? Will he have an impact which might be overlooked considering he has been in the system for a year and had time to develop his body and mindset to the college game?

Thoughts anyone?

 

[UncleMark]

line-ups and playing time but one name I seldom see mentioned is Race Thompson....

That's because most people have essentially zero knowledge about how the players have developed. Since we didn't see him last year and he's not part of this year's vaunted recruiting class, no one even thinks about him. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[birdforbogey]

I will say this, I would put him in front of Clifton Moore, even without ever seeing him play.

 

[37Hoosier]

I will say this, I would put him in front of Clifton Moore, even without ever seeing him play.

I believe he was a pretty highly recruited player when he committed to IU. O well, hope he is a strong surprise. I have not seen a lot of him of course, but he looks to be pretty strong physically, and from the limited info last year on him a pretty smart & skilled player as well.

 

[ufo33]

I think Race and Fitzner will both play a lot and are under the radar. Fitzner can shoot the 3, he reminds me of a taller Max Biefelt. Race was redshirted and he can also shoot the ball, and with his size and strength will be needed in the lane, especially if DeRon is still recovering from injury for most, if not all season.

 

[87 Rides a Surfboard]

I will say this, I would put him in front of Clifton Moore, even without ever seeing him play.

Be interesting to see Clifton in pre-season games. Kid has all the potential in the world but needs to put on so much muscle.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Be interesting to see Clifton in pre-season games. Kid has all the potential in the world but needs to put on so much muscle.

There are some recent photos of Moore on IUs Instagram. He looks to have beefed up quite a bit.

Also, a nice video of Fitz.

https://www.instagram.com/indianambb/?hl=en

 

[ufo33]

Archie has transformed IU in one season!

 

[RickyRoe]

The problem is that we have too many forwards all of a sudden. The key is whether they can shoot well enough so that we can play Justin Smith at the small forward and still space out the defense enough for Romeo and Morgan to play the two-man game we are all expecting.

 

[T.M.P.]

The problem is that we have too many forwards all of a sudden. .

No we don't. Most of them (what you're calling forwards, even though it covers three positions most likely) will not play this year and probably not get extensive playing time until they are juniors, if ever, and depending on their development. The transition from HS to College for bigs takes longer than it does with guards and wings unless those bigs are one and done caliber.

Paterfamilias posted something a while ago about how many four star PG's start as freshman. Almost 4 of 10, same with wings. 4 star bigs 1 of 10 and half of them never earn a starting role and a majority do not get major minutes until their junior year.

Unless Thompson, Moore, and Forrester are ahead of the curve, or have drastically improved over the summer, they probably won't get much playing time and will be the developmental squad and supply spot minute depth.

Our big rotation will consist of Fitz, Morgan, Smith (at times when we go small) and when and if he's ready Davis. If we don't have Davis, then one of the three mentioned above will get minutes.

Plus there's no rule saying you have to play everyone on the roster. Some can actually sit on the bench and develop. By the end of the year once the rotation is set, 5 to 6 of them, each highly rated, will be doing that.

Good coaches stockpile bigs, there's a reason why, they take longer to become proficient, especially defensively. The guys above who will not play this year will be the core of our interior in the future and others will be waiting their turn.

 

[TommyCracker]

No we don't. Most of them (what you're calling forwards, even though it covers three positions most likely) will not play this year and probably not get extensive playing time until they are juniors, if ever, and depending on their development. The transition from HS to College for bigs takes longer than it does with guards and wings unless those bigs are one and done calibur.

Paterfamilias posted something a while ago about how many four star PG's start as freshman. Almost 4 of 10, same with wings. 4 star bigs 1 of 10 and half of them never earn a starting role and a majority do not get major minutes until their junior year.

Unless Thompson, Moore, and Forrester are ahead of the curve, or have drastically improved over the summer, they probably won't get much playing time and will be the developmental squad and supply spot minute depth.

Our big rotation will consist of Fitz, Morgan, Smith (at times when we go small) and when and if he's ready Davis. If we don't have Davis, then one of the three mentioned above will get minutes.

Plus there's no rule saying you have to play everyone on the roster. Some can actually sit on the bench and develop. By the end of the year once the rotation is set, 5 to 6 of them, each highly rated, will be doing that.

Good coaches stockpile bigs, there's a reason why, they take longer to become proficient, especially defensively. The guys above who will not play this year will be the core of our interior in the future and others will be waiting their turn.

There are so many people on this, the pay board and TOS that have already determined that Moore is a bust and want to push him out/recruit over him... I don't get it for the very reason you stated.

Big guys take longer. Especially those that come into the program at 190 pounds.

The last thing I want to do is spend two years developing a good potential big and then watch him walk for another team after he's physically matured.

He might never develop and become a bust. I get that. He's not Priller. He has potential (freakish length, good anticipation on blocks and a nice looking shot even though it's a bit slow on the release)

 

[82hoosier]

Chemistry. Who knows at this point how they will mesh. One thing that is for sure is that players will not stay on the court if they can’t hold their own on both ends of the court and play their defined roll.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

There are so many people on this, the pay board and TOS that have already determined that Moore is a bust and want to push him out/recruit over him... I don't get it for the very reason you stated.

Big guys take longer. Especially those that come into the program at 190 pounds.

The last thing I want to do is spend two years developing a good potential big and then watch him walk for another team after he's physically matured.

He might never develop and become a bust. I get that. He's not Priller. He has potential (freakish length, good anticipation on blocks and a nice looking shot even though it's a bit slow on the release)

Alway imagined that having a 'Team' meant buying in to the Players, good and not so good, even or maybe especially when it sometimes feels empty and frustrating. Easy and almost automatic for some to shit on whomever is 'underperforming', struggling, screwing up or what have you, but as long as they wear the C&C, better to stand behind them.

For my part there's a real satisfaction in watching Players evolve and succeed, sometimes even in spite of themselves - in some ways that counts for as much as winning, or maybe it's another type of winning. I do know that everyone who steps onto the Floor at AH is working way way harder than anyone posting here, and that alone is enough to merit my respect and forbearance when it comes to criticism.

I hope Race and Clifton come out this year and kill it. Don't know that will ever become a regular thing, but am certain they'll have their moments (think Zach McRoberts), and in some respects that makes up for whatever short-comings and failings they may have. Long as they're giving it their all, can't really expect or ask for more, at least not until the next recruiting class comes along. Until then, and for so long as the Season lasts, my/our Team is on the Floor.

 

[Lucy01]

No we don't. Most of them (what you're calling forwards, even though it covers three positions most likely) will not play this year and probably not get extensive playing time until they are juniors, if ever, and depending on their development. The transition from HS to College for bigs takes longer than it does with guards and wings unless those bigs are one and done calibur.

Paterfamilias posted something a while ago about how many four star PG's start as freshman. Almost 4 of 10, same with wings. 4 star bigs 1 of 10 and half of them never earn a starting role and a majority do not get major minutes until their junior year.

Unless Thompson, Moore, and Forrester are ahead of the curve, or have drastically improved over the summer, they probably won't get much playing time and will be the developmental squad and supply spot minute depth.

Our big rotation will consist of Fitz, Morgan, Smith (at times when we go small) and when and if he's ready Davis. If we don't have Davis, then one of the three mentioned above will get minutes.

Plus there's no rule saying you have to play everyone on the roster. Some can actually sit on the bench and develop. By the end of the year once the rotation is set, 5 to 6 of them, each highly rated, will be doing that.

Good coaches stockpile bigs, there's a reason why, they take longer to become proficient, especially defensively. The guys above who will not play this year will be the core of our interior in the future and others will be waiting their turn.

#Walkaway

 

[T.M.P.]

There are so many people on this, the pay board and TOS that have already determined that Moore is a bust and want to push him out/recruit over him... I don't get it for the very reason you stated.

Big guys take longer. Especially those that come into the program at 190 pounds.

The last thing I want to do is spend two years developing a good potential big and then watch him walk for another team after he's physically matured.

He might never develop and become a bust. I get that. He's not Priller. He has potential (freakish length, good anticipation on blocks and a nice looking shot even though it's a bit slow on the release)

Which is what Crean did way too often.

 

[Lucy01]

Which is what Crean did way too often.

#walkaway

 

[UncleMark]

I hope Race and Clifton come out this year and kill it. Don't know that will ever become a regular thing, but am certain they'll have their moments (think Zach McRoberts), and in some respects that makes up for whatever short-comings and failings they may have.

Bravo. The W/L notwithstanding, watching McBob play last year and contributing the way he did was one of the most gratifying aspects of last season. I'm pulling for Moore and Thompson as much if not more than their more heralded teammates. Good kids, giving it their all, developing and contributing, and coming into their own in due time -- that's what college basketball should be all about. When that's done right, the wins will come.

 

[TommyCracker]

Bravo. The W/L notwithstanding, watching McBob play last year and contributing the way he did was one of the most gratifying aspects of last season. I'm pulling for Moore and Thompson as much if not more than their more heralded teammates. Good kids, giving it their all, developing and contributing, and coming into their own in due time -- that's what college basketball should be all about. When that's done right, the wins will come.

Unlike Moore, Race is a player. He's not a stiff. In what I've seen the term I use is 'violent'.

He reminds me of Jess Settles. Definitely has that big, goonie Iowa power forward during the Tom Davis years (Jaacks, Street -rip, Bowen).

Race isn't a stiff...he runs the floor, he leads transitions so he has a handle, he has a decent outside shot but to me his identity from the videos is violence.

I love this one of him showing everything (shooting, post play, rebounding, running in transition).

He might not see much time this year as he's still a freshman age wise...but I expect him to be a cornerstone of the program after this year.

PS...he's a high school sophomore in this highlight video (and the video gets better as you watch).

Put your hands up in the air!

 

[bsmitty08]

I look for the lineup to be.
Morgan
Smith
Hunter/mcRoberts
Romeo
Green

 

[IndianaHoops]

I look for the lineup to be.
Morgan
Smith
Hunter/mcRoberts
Romeo
Green

Green
Romeo
Smith
Morgan
Fitz/Davis

 

[bsmitty08]

Green
Romeo
Smith
Morgan
Fitz/Davis

Depends on Davis health

 

[IndianaHoops]

Unlike Moore, Race is a player. He's not a stiff. In what I've seen the term I use is 'violent'.

He reminds me of Jess Settles. Definitely has that big, goonie Iowa power forward during the Tom Davis years (Jaacks, Street -rip, Bowen).

Race isn't a stiff...he runs the floor, he leads transitions so he has a handle, he has a decent outside shot but to me his identity from the videos is violence.

I love this one of him showing everything (shooting, post play, rebounding, running in transition).

He might not see much time this year as he's still a freshman age wise...but I expect him to be a cornerstone of the program after this year.

PS...he's a high school sophomore in this highlight video (and the video gets better as you watch).

Put your hands up in the air!

View embedded media

Moore is not a stiff.

He is a kid that played guard his whole life, had a crazy growth spurt, and is learning how to play in the post.

 

[ufo33]

Davis/Fitz/Race/Jake
Morgan/Fitz/Race/Jake/Moore
Smith/Hunter/McRoberts/Anderson
Romeo/Hunter/Anderson/Green
Phinesee/Al Durham/Green/Anderson/Vijay

 

[TommyCracker]

Moore is not a stiff.

He is a kid that played guard his whole life, had a crazy growth spurt, and is learning how to play in the post.

Sorry, I really like Clifton's ceiling. Really like it. I don't want a four person 2019 class cuz I want to see him as an upperclassman.

Stiff was the wrong word.... I meant project.

Cliff has a LOT of development that needs to happen. I think Race will be a cornerstone by next year and his skills are more developed right now.

 

[TR32]

I still think people are underestimating Durham. Athletic, humble, already played a lot of minutes... he could really be good this year.

 

[TommyCracker]

I still think people are underestimating Durham. Athletic, humble, already played a lot of minutes... he could really be good this year.

My rub with Al is that he's a very poor shooter so far, way too poor to be a shooting guard.

He's also not a playmaker, so he's not a point.

What he seems to do pretty well is drive (but he doesn't create so far. He can drive to score or get fouled), he's got a nice touch around the basket and he's long so there is some defensive talent to work with.

Seems to be a pretty good Swiss army knife off the bench but I'm not sure what is position is going to be defined as.

 

[ORG]

line-ups and playing time but one name I seldom see mentioned is Race Thompson....

Does anyone have any progress reports on him? Will he have an impact which might be overlooked considering he has been in the system for a year and had time to develop his body and mindset to the college game?

Thoughts anyone?

I see him as being 8-10 in the rotation in minutes played per game.

 

[ufo33]

Im actually higher on Al than Green at PG. Green is streaky shooting and he is a Crean legacy turnover machine trying for the AAU highlight home run pass that gets pick sixed, or the horrible shot selection, low percentage shot with nobody in rebounding position. Al at least won't turn the ball over as frequently and plays more in control and is longer and better defensively. Phinesee is the best pure PG on the roster.
.

 

[jsig]

My rub with Al is that he's a very poor shooter so far, way too poor to be a shooting guard.

He's also not a playmaker, so he's not a point.

What he seems to do pretty well is drive (but he doesn't create so far. He can drive to score or get fouled), he's got a nice touch around the basket and he's long so there is some defensive talent to work with.

Seems to be a pretty good Swiss army knife off the bench but I'm not sure what is position is going to be defined as.

IMO, he has solid skillset, athleticism, and plays smart. He has the length to be a very good defensive guard. Now he will have to deal with Romeo in practice so that should help his defense.

He just needs experience and to develop strength to handle physical play. Once he develops physically those drives to the bucket for baskets or to get to the line could be tough for defenses to deal with as a Jr/Sr. After Romeo's 1 and done season, I believe Phinisee (Soph), Al (Jr), and Devontee (Sr) will form a very good core of guards to go along with new recruits whether they are highly rated ready to play immediately or more of the developmental prospects that we hope to be solid contributors by the time they are upperclassmen.

 

[fpeaugh]

That's because most people have essentially zero knowledge about how the players have developed. Since we didn't see him last year and he's not part of this year's vaunted recruiting class, no one even thinks about him. Out of sight, out of mind.

I think most people are just taking a wait and see approach after what happened with Moore last year. We were repeatedly told he was a big time player who would compete for a starting position come Big Ten season.

It turned out he didn’t even sniff the floor in garbage time, nor did he deserve to. And that was on a pretty bad team.

Every year we overhype the majority of incoming players who we’ve only seen highlight tapes on. It’s what fans do. Taking a wait and see approach isn’t all that bad of an idea.

 

[Eurocyldon]

Excited to see what Moore and the rest of these young bigs can do. Not putting a lot of expectations on them, but I believe Coach Miller will find ways for them to be successful and help the team. It's just a matter or earning it in practice and in game.

Regarding Race Thompson - I am all in on this kid. I think he plays more than people think and contributes early and often. Like someone mentioned earlier, he is not a project. He can play.

 

[MG80]

I look for the lineup to be.
Morgan
Smith
Hunter/mcRoberts
Romeo
Green

I’m guessing that Fitzner will be starting. His ability to stretch the floor really opens it up for Morgan and Romeo.

 

[TR32]

My rub with Al is that he's a very poor shooter so far, way too poor to be a shooting guard.

He's also not a playmaker, so he's not a point.

What he seems to do pretty well is drive (but he doesn't create so far. He can drive to score or get fouled), he's got a nice touch around the basket and he's long so there is some defensive talent to work with.

Seems to be a pretty good Swiss army knife off the bench but I'm not sure what is position is going to be defined as.

Certainly a fair assessment. However, he showed improvement in his outside stroke later in the season. Greg Graham wasn't a great shooter his freshman year, not that I am comparing the two.

Al did a really good job of taking care of the ball and that is always needed. With added strength and shooting he could really be an asset.

 

[dbmhoosier]

I’m guessing that Fitzner will be starting. His ability to stretch the floor really opens it up for Morgan and Romeo.

Highly doubt that. I'm told McRoberts is a near lock to start. We know Romeo and Morgan are starting so that would mean Smith is coming off the bench. I can't see Justin not starting .

 

[ufo33]

McRoberts brings a lot of intangibles that are not measured. The tip out saving a ball possession, the defensive positioning for a rebound or charge, the non flashy pass for a bucket, or the hockey assist pass which set up the easy assist, the hustle on the floor for the ball saving a poissession, he has a high BB IQ. McRoberts is a winner, he makes winning plays when it's winning time, and pressure situations seem to have no effect on him, he still makes the correct play. He is mature in his thinking on the court.

 

[enfield]

Alway imagined that having a 'Team' meant buying in to the Players, good and not so good, even or maybe especially when it sometimes feels empty and frustrating. Easy and almost automatic for some to shit on whomever is 'underperforming', struggling, screwing up or what have you, but as long as they wear the C&C, better to stand behind them.

For my part there's a real satisfaction in watching Players evolve and succeed, sometimes even in spite of themselves - in some ways that counts for as much as winning, or maybe it's another type of winning. I do know that everyone who steps onto the Floor at AH is working way way harder than anyone posting here, and that alone is enough to merit my respect and forbearance when it comes to criticism.

I hope Race and Clifton come out this year and kill it. Don't know that will ever become a regular thing, but am certain they'll have their moments (think Zach McRoberts), and in some respects that makes up for whatever short-comings and failings they may have. Long as they're giving it their all, can't really expect or ask for more, at least not until the next recruiting class comes along. Until then, and for so long as the Season lasts, my/our Team is on the Floor.

Well written, and that’s an understatement. Just spot on! So true, and I think Crean’s biggest failure. The over recruiting sent a statement to the team that nobody was safe, your scholly was in jeapardy. The last guy on the bench is still part of the team and the thought that he was going to get screwed ruined chemistry. It’s one thing if they’re a whiner or have a bad attutiude but that wasn’t the case.
Crean had several flaws, spastic recruiting and not being able to connect with most recruits. The longer he knew them the less chance he had of landing them. However, he didn’t have the balls to buy into the players, good or not so good. Period

 

[IndianaHoops]

McRoberts brings a lot of intangibles that are not measured. The tip out saving a ball possession, the defensive positioning for a rebound or charge, the non flashy pass for a bucket, or the hockey assist pass which set up the easy assist, the hustle on the floor for the ball saving a poissession, he has a high BB IQ. McRoberts is a winner, he makes winning plays when it's winning time, and pressure situations seem to have no effect on him, he still makes the correct play. He is mature in his thinking on the court.

He can’t score......it’s almost playing 4 v 5 for the other team when IU has the ball.

I love McRob, but if he is starting, we aren’t much better than last year.

 

[IndianaHoops]

Highly doubt that. I'm told McRoberts is a near lock to start. We know Romeo and Morgan are starting so that would mean Smith is coming off the bench. I can't see Justin not starting .

Fitz didn’t come to IU so a walk on can start in front of him.

McRob shouldn’t be starting with the talent on the roster this year.

 

[T.M.P.]

Fitz didn’t come to IU so a walk on can start in front of him.

McRob shouldn’t be starting with the talent on the roster this year.

fwiw - you underestimate Zach. First he's not a typical walk on, he signed with a D-1 school. Secondly, he had the 3rd best offensive efficiency behind JM, DD last year. He may not be prolific, but he didn't need to be and it wasn't his role.

Well defined roles, something Crean dismissed, means you don't need five scorers on the floor at the same time. It's not EA sports. Also, teams still have to play him tight, 39% from 3 last year.

His biggest weakness was TO, which was way too high for his role.. If someone beats him out of his starting job, it will be well earned, but it won't be because of scoring. They'll have to D-up and hustle as well or better.

Fitz's playing time and Zach's playing time have nothing to do with the other. Different positions.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Fitz didn’t come to IU so a walk on can start in front of him.

McRob shouldn’t be starting with the talent on the roster this year.

I don't know what you're talking about. He didn't even start for St Mary's last season. Max Biefeldt didn't start either and he was probably a step above Fitzner. Evan is a role player nothing more.