Let’s say that we went out and won the Big Ten this season. Would that vindicate Archie for the first 2 seasons in the minds of his detractors?
Hypothetically...
- Thread starter fkfootball
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Doing well in the NCAA Tournament is more important than where IU finishes in the B1G unless IU wins the B1G or the BTT.
I want to win a BTT someday!
And win Banner #6!
I want to win a BTT someday!
And win Banner #6!
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IU needs to win their 6th NCAA Tournament,
Losing in the NCAA Tournament is Purdue ceiling level.
"With this group"?? Archie has put together a loaded roster... this will be no miracle if this team wins the Big Ten. Why has it been so hard for people to see that this is a contending roster?
I had my doubts about Sparty coming in, then they lose Langford again who may not be at full tilt again this season. Can't rule them out, but I think it comes down to IU, OSU and Maryland. Penn State will be tough too, but I think they are just a slight notch below the top 3. Michigan, if Wagner is as good as advertised, might be in the hunt too once totally healthy.
IU hasn't played anyone yet, but I think they are only scratching the surface of what they'll look like in Feb.
I had my doubts about Sparty coming in, then they lose Langford again who may not be at full tilt again this season. Can't rule them out, but I think it comes down to IU, OSU and Maryland. Penn State will be tough too, but I think they are just a slight notch below the top 3. Michigan, if Wagner is as good as advertised, might be in the hunt too once totally healthy.
IU hasn't played anyone yet, but I think they are only scratching the surface of what they'll look like in Feb.
CAM has put together a good roster, not loaded. The La Tech game had two completely different halves. Very sold first. Completely disorganized second. It showed We’ve got some grit and will compete. We should finish well in the BTN. Hopefully, we’ll finish in the top four or five. This team should make the Tournament and be very dangerous. Anything better than that and CAM’s a magician.
Winning the Big Ten and going deep into the NCAA tourney would be great. Winning the BTT would be worth about as much as a cup of warm spit...
For this team the floor is getting into the tournament. Anything less is unacceptable. Third in the Big Ten and an elite eight run should quiet the doubters. We don’t know for sure though because Fpeaugh hasn’t been here since Tom Allen qualified for a bowl game.
It's all about the big dance. Archie can finish 5th in the B1G every year and he'll be just fine if he's consistently making deep tourney runs as Fred said is the expectation. However, he can win the B1G regularly but if we're constantly getting bounced in the opening weekend he won't last long.
I've said this for a while. If they can get completely healthy where all players can actually get on the court then they have the chance to be pretty good.
I would almost rather win the BTT and take that momentum into a deep NCAA Tournament run, Final Four or National Championship.
Let me throw a few stats at you......interesting, I think:
IU........,,,,,,,,,SOS: 319/353..........Off. Eff.: 1/353..........Def. Eff.: 148/353
MSU.............SOS: 94/353............Off. Eff: 41/353........Def. Eff.: 68/353
MD...............SOS: 267/353..........Off. Eff.: 19/353.......Def. Eff.:..32/353
OSU.............SOS: 131/353..........Off. Eff. :.24/353.......Def. Eff.:...8/353
So......Really surprising to see us #1 presently in Offensive Efficiency.....but the DE # has to be very concerning. And it reflects, I think, what we've been seeing: far too many easy drives to the basket; far too many good 3 point shooters left open. We'd have to improve dramatically on D to finish in the Top 3.
Now as to your 'we're only scratching the surface' remark...........we've got a number of key players with a LOT of experience: Green; Durham; Brunk; Smith; and RP has starting experience. So, it's not a young team relatively speaking. In terms of freshmen, our group (including Hunter) is good, but not as good as OSU's and no better than MSU or MD. So, on the surface, there's no reasonable expectation that our improvement would be dramatically better than theirs.
I'm in the minority, but I hate that point of view. Detest it.
I would much prefer a 32 team field, as teams that finish 5th or 6th in their conference haven't earned the right to even play for the NC.
It doesn’t necessarily work that way. The only time we ever played in a BTT championship game on Sunday, we got bounced in the first round by Thursday in an upset. Iowa won it and I think they lost in the first round too, definitely didn’t make a deep run. How you perform in the BTT is meaningless.
I'm not sure that we can even trust these site's DE #. There is some statistical glitch where they are only using Princeton's 1st half stats in the IU-Princeton game which dramatically effects the DE for that game as well as our season numbers. I hope they catch it pretty soon because it's going to get agitating as the season moves along.
Regardless, it's probably a little early to get excited or upset about anything. At least we haven't dropped one of the ones we can't afford to lose yet.
Someone on here - I think it was @Paterfamilias - made a post one time that looked at how well regular season and conference tournament performances translated into NCAAT success. From what I can recall, the teams that had the most NCAAT success were those that won both of their conference's regular season and tournament championships. I think the teams that won the regular season but lost the conference tournament tended to fair better than those who won only the conference tournament.
I might be mis-remembering the details. Maybe he'll post it again.
It is pretty early for looking at season statistics. The FSU game will tell us more about this team than adjusted efficiency of the 7 games against poor competition.
Tell me if Im wrong there. I am not ignoring IU's weaknesses, but the truth is, we are not even sure we've seen IU's true starting line up and rotation yet. They have beaten every team they've played without one of their top 3 defenders. Right?
Also worth mentioning- IU's offense will be tested against a very good Arkansas defense in a few games. By then, wins and losses should also tell the tale.
Tell me if Im wrong there. I am not ignoring IU's weaknesses, but the truth is, we are not even sure we've seen IU's true starting line up and rotation yet. They have beaten every team they've played without one of their top 3 defenders. Right?
Also worth mentioning- IU's offense will be tested against a very good Arkansas defense in a few games. By then, wins and losses should also tell the tale.
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Conference Tournaments act as a IHSAA Sectional where every team in in the field to start.
Some teams dont put as much emphasis on Conference Tournaments of they are safely in the NCAA Tournament field
The thing we forget is that for 30 years(?) or so no major conference other than the ACC even had a conference tournament. No one really saw the need/utility for it. Instead they played 2-3 additional regular season conference games.
The only positive I see is that it gives a team which has experienced injuries throughout the regular season a second chance. Everything else is negative, except the $.
In my perfect basketball world, go to 32 teams, limiting any single conference to 3 teams. Then that conference could decide whether to have a PS tourney. Many wouldn't, which would be a good thing.
As an alternative, limit the tourney field to 8 games so that you have fewer but better games.
How does it get any better than giant-killing and do or die competition? It really doesn't, and then there's perhaps the most important part - giving as many students as possible their moment in the sun. The Games are for the Players and the Schools, not the spectators and the networks. Not as if anyone makes you watch.
The players and coaches don’t like these conference tournaments. Those are strictly about the $ and the fans.
It's not an either or situation. The games are for the player, schools, network, and spectators.
It's more made for TV showbiz than legitimate competition.
The original reason for having a national tourney was to bring teams together from different geographic zones to determine a legit champion. I still think that's the only legit competitive reason. When you go to 64 teams the probability of actually crowning the best team is reduced. Now its not important the best team wins. Any team will do, the more unlikely the better The whole point of the event is to produce made for TV moments and office pools and underdog stories. The soul is actually gone from the event. 80% of it is BS. As long as IU is involved, or a good BT team is involved, I'll watch. Otherwise, I don't care.
How you figure that? Seriously. Greater chance of upsets? Seems the best Team might be the one that is the most consistent.
For my part it'll take more than networks to rob Hoops of its 'soul'. Every single Player on every 353 DI Team dreams of playing on that stage and on any given day any of the 353 Teams can beat any other - as far as conundrums go, this one hardly rates. And if you can be sure of anything, the NCAA is never going to try and put that cat back in the bag. Never. You can rage/reason all you want, but it's just not ever going to happen.
Look what you're saying.....'playing on a stage'. I said it's more showbiz then basketball, and you make my point.
And I don't want to see #353 beating #1.....because I want the 4 best teams playing for a championship. Everything that detracts from that means that it's more about entertainment than competition.
I know I'm in the minority and I don't have to watch.....so I won't, unless there are specific teams I'm interested in.
I am of the opposite point of view. I would prefer an 80 or even an 88 team field, with half of the additional teams, at least, coming from non "power 6" conferences. Every year there are 6-8 good solid mid/lower major schools left out of the tourney. Let 'em play!
Thank you for the post.
Two quick thoughts:
Izzo often has his team playing ragged this time of year. I don't put a lot of stock into their early losses. Every year they play a tough schedule, and lose some early games. He (Izzo) seems to place value in being tested and what can be learned in a loss. They'll be fine.
Maryland:
Does any coach do less with more than Turgeon? I fully expect to finish ahead of them in conference play and to see them under perform.
If they cannot beat #353, they aren't number 1. All you have to do is win 6 games and prove you are the best team.
Compare that to football where undefeated teams don't even get a chance to keep playing. They let the committee decide who is best.
Duke lost to Stephen F. Austin at home last night as the #1 team. Guess what? Duke isn't the number 1 team, and SFA is better than most would assume. It is the beauty of college basketball. Everyone has a chance. They just have to win.
Yep. His top recruit went for 37 yesterday and they still lost. But when the kid goes pro in April Crean will use his name to recruit the next star to Athens.
Nah, if every team in D1 were allowed in the tourney, there would be nine, and at the most 10 wins, to win it all. Coincidentally, that is the amount of games it took to win the one class Indiana HS State Championship back in the day. What a wonderful month of March in Indiana, with the upsets and small school achievers. Yeah, letting every school in is not that bad of an idea.....
and they cut a 27 point lead to 2...as a big underdog...
Im sure Crean, like every other coach, will see helping a kid reach their dream as a recruiting point.
Big difference---there were 4 regional semi-states. That added the geographic dimension which was the original driving force behind the NCAA, while retaining all great local rivalries leading up to the FF. It was the perfect mix.
Think about how entertaining your idea would be, or letting all 353 in, if we went back to the idea of a regionally based tourney. Maybe a final 16 that looked something like this:
East:
UNC
Duke
Georgetown
Pitt
Midwest:
Indiana
Purdue
Michigan
Notre Dame
South:
Kentucky
Florida
Texas
Oklahoma
West:
UCLA
Gonzaga
Arizona
BYU
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Correct, and one of his biggest problems. He put the kids ahead of the program.
Calipari does that crap too.
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