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How many wins this year?

Back to the subject of win totals.I just returned from Vegas where the CG Tech casinos (the only ones who have published toalt win wagers avaiable right now) has moved our total wins to 6.
 
I explained why I believe the situations are different. I never claimed that Allen - - as HC - - has a tougher overall job than Wilson had. I could say more but I sense there’s little point because, as someone else suggested in another thread, it looks like you’re the latest version of Fredricka James, Bobsnotbucks, The Spa, Kern County, Helen Dell, etc., etc.

I was hoping he would take the summer off of trashing threads after his most recent banning. Bummer he is back yet again.
 
I was hoping he would take the summer off of trashing threads after his most recent banning. Bummer he is back yet again.
It is completely mind-boggling that he continues to pretend that he's not the same person as the other 15 accounts. I mean the timing is hilariously obvious. At least go away for a couple of weeks.
 
It is completely mind-boggling that he continues to pretend that he's not the same person as the other 15 accounts. I mean the timing is hilariously obvious. At least go away for a couple of weeks.
Also the same writing style, the same lines, the same insults. But we're supposed to think he's someone else. Bizarre.
 
Wilson inherited a horrifically bad, worst in the conference and one of the worst in the power 5 conference, roster. His task was much tougher than Allen's. I like coach DeBord bit other than wide receiver, IUs offense is near the bottom of the big ten on talent.


I think we have guys on the OL who have been waiting in the wings for a few seasons that will have their time now. Everyone was fixated on the Feeney injury last season but failed to mention that we had some really green guys that will now be veterans. Guys like Cronk and Knight, Stepaniak, Littlejohn, Wes Martin, Delroy Baker, Nworah....all those guys were 3 star range guys. I don't know how we can objectively say they are near the bottom of the talent pool? The WRs, as you noted, is rated among the top 3 in the conference. RB is unknown. QB needs better play but I don't think we are devoid of talent there.
 
I think we have guys on the OL who have been waiting in the wings for a few seasons that will have their time now. Everyone was fixated on the Feeney injury last season but failed to mention that we had some really green guys that will now be veterans. Guys like Cronk and Knight, Stepaniak, Littlejohn, Wes Martin, Delroy Baker, Nworah....all those guys were 3 star range guys. I don't know how we can objectively say they are near the bottom of the talent pool? The WRs, as you noted, is rated among the top 3 in the conference. RB is unknown. QB needs better play but I don't think we are devoid of talent there.
It takes time for an O line to get in sync. Last year, they struggled throughout, which was a big reason for Lagow's interception issues. As for talent, would it be accurate to say the line is in the bottom quarter of the Big Ten? That looks very fair.
 
It takes time for an O line to get in sync. Last year, they struggled throughout, which was a big reason for Lagow's interception issues. As for talent, would it be accurate to say the line is in the bottom quarter of the Big Ten? That looks very fair.

I don't know if it's fair to say anything about talent on the OL until we see the line together as group. Maybe on paper one could claim that but they could have come to the same lazy conclusion regarding Spriggs and Feeney based on their lack of offers. Those guys were 3 stars but didn't have jump-off-the paper offers when they signed and they earned big accolades.

I also wouldn't attribute Lagow's interceptions due to the line. He had decent protection most of the season and continued to stare down guys and throw right into the hands of the DBs.

Lagow's struggles have to do with Lagow as much as anything, and the guy still threw for a ton of yards. I'm failing to understand where our OL was the biggest source of his problems?
 
I don't know if it's fair to say anything about talent on the OL until we see the line together as group. Maybe on paper one could claim that but they could have come to the same lazy conclusion regarding Spriggs and Feeney based on their lack of offers. Those guys were 3 stars but didn't have jump-off-the paper offers when they signed and they earned big accolades.

I also wouldn't attribute Lagow's interceptions due to the line. He had decent protection most of the season and continued to stare down guys and throw right into the hands of the DBs.

Lagow's struggles have to do with Lagow as much as anything, and the guy still threw for a ton of yards. I'm failing to understand where our OL was the biggest source of his problems?
A line that lost its four best players from the yet before to injury and graduation, forced to start a true freshman left tackle due to depth issues, in front of a quarterback who had never started a D1 game, with the best back by far having moved onto the pros and two of the top receivers out for the season due to injury . . . that's exactly how you get 17 interceptions. Not sure how that line now rates higher after four more multi year starters are gone and the entire offensive coaching staff is new, but here it all gets rave reviews.
 
A line that lost its four best players from the yet before to injury and graduation, forced to start a true freshman left tackle due to depth issues, in front of a quarterback who had never started a D1 game, with the best back by far having moved onto the pros and two of the top receivers out for the season due to injury . . . that's exactly how you get 17 interceptions. Not sure how that line now rates higher after four more multi year starters are gone and the entire offensive coaching staff is new, but here it all gets rave reviews.

We can agree to disagree on the reasons behind Lagow's interceptions being tied to the OL.
 
I don't know if it's fair to say anything about talent on the OL until we see the line together as group. Maybe on paper one could claim that but they could have come to the same lazy conclusion regarding Spriggs and Feeney based on their lack of offers. Those guys were 3 stars but didn't have jump-off-the paper offers when they signed and they earned big accolades.

I also wouldn't attribute Lagow's interceptions due to the line. He had decent protection most of the season and continued to stare down guys and throw right into the hands of the DBs.

Lagow's struggles have to do with Lagow as much as anything, and the guy still threw for a ton of yards. I'm failing to understand where our OL was the biggest source of his problems?

RL's primary issue is his own inability/unwillingness to read multiple options among his receivers and defefensive sets. Again, I watched him in person from multiple angles and the guy simply locks in on one receiver. I see it, other knowledgeable fans see it, and the defenders see it. Result: INT.

Much improvement required. The line didn't help much, but that was not the root cause.
 
RL's primary issue is his own inability/unwillingness to read multiple options among his receivers and defefensive sets. Again, I watched him in person from multiple angles and the guy simply locks in on one receiver. I see it, other knowledgeable fans see it, and the defenders see it. Result: INT.

Much improvement required. The line didn't help much, but that was not the root cause.

Though its much easier to go through progressions being confident that you'll have time to do so. Not saying the whole problem is the fault of the line, Lagow certainly had his own issues, but those issues were greatly magnified by the oline weaknesses.
 
Though its much easier to go through progressions being confident that you'll have time to do so. Not saying the whole problem is the fault of the line, Lagow certainly had his own issues, but those issues were greatly magnified by the oline weaknesses.
Agree. It's a team game, and weakness in one area spills into others, especially when one of those "others" is a first year qb.
 
Though its much easier to go through progressions being confident that you'll have time to do so. Not saying the whole problem is the fault of the line, Lagow certainly had his own issues, but those issues were greatly magnified by the oline weaknesses.

Those issues were there regardless of DF being healthy. Simple fundamentals that were easy to identify.
 
If RL falters, Ramsey needs to start and play ASAP. This team has a legit defense, let's not waste this year to piss poor QB play.

This is only the second legit defense since 93'...the other being last year's. That's awful to type but it's a painful truth. I think with Tom Allen that's going to change!!
 
If RL falters, Ramsey needs to start and play ASAP. This team has a legit defense, let's not waste this year to piss poor QB play.

This is only the second legit defense since 93'...the other being last year's. That's awful to type but it's a painful truth. I think with Tom Allen that's going to change!!

Yep

Going with the future is the smart play if the fundamentals cannot be corrected early. Two games.
 
If RL falters, Ramsey needs to start and play ASAP. This team has a legit defense, let's not waste this year to piss poor QB play.

This is only the second legit defense since 93'...the other being last year's. That's awful to type but it's a painful truth. I think with Tom Allen that's going to change!!
It will be interesting to see how the offense performs under a completely new staff. The fan focus is always on the quarterback, but it's obviously a much more complex issue than just one player. Coaches always joke about the back up quarterback being the most popular player on the team, since armchair fans always think they have an understanding of that position. Nonetheless, it won't be easy for DeBord to stick with Lagow if things start to go south early, especially with so much uncertainty in the offensive line, tight end and running back positions.
 
It will be interesting to see how the offense performs under a completely new staff. The fan focus is always on the quarterback, but it's obviously a much more complex issue than just one player. Coaches always joke about the back up quarterback being the most popular player on the team, since armchair fans always think they have an understanding of that position. Nonetheless, it won't be easy for DeBord to stick with Lagow if things start to go south early, especially with so much uncertainty in the offensive line, tight end and running back positions.

I don't really understand why you think there is uncertainty on the line... everyone of the players that will start this year has a lot of snaps under there belt... Name the last true freshman OL player that has come in and dominated... Its because they aren't as physical as a freshmen... The biggest jump for players on the OL come between there Freshman and sophomore year.. I think you will be very surprised.

Also Ian Thomas at tight end might be our biggest weapon this year.. So IDK how you could say that TE is an issue.. Maybe just because we haven't used a TE in the past...? That's very questionable.

And RB.. while yes we haven't seen him play in real time.. lets not forget that CKW was on record saying when healthy CP is the most talented player hes coached since AP.. And its been reported the staff is doing everything to keep him healthy and have him ready for week 1... If we have a running threat this year that doesn't just get the yards that are blocked (Redding) but can actually make someone miss in the open field and run through tackles you will see the passing game open up a lot more.. Teams were able to keep everything in front of them knowing we didn't have a RB that had any ability to break away from the defense..
 
I don't really understand why you think there is uncertainty on the line... everyone of the players that will start this year has a lot of snaps under there belt... Name the last true freshman OL player that has come in and dominated... Its because they aren't as physical as a freshmen... The biggest jump for players on the OL come between there Freshman and sophomore year.. I think you will be very surprised.

Also Ian Thomas at tight end might be our biggest weapon this year.. So IDK how you could say that TE is an issue.. Maybe just because we haven't used a TE in the past...? That's very questionable.

And RB.. while yes we haven't seen him play in real time.. lets not forget that CKW was on record saying when healthy CP is the most talented player hes coached since AP.. And its been reported the staff is doing everything to keep him healthy and have him ready for week 1... If we have a running threat this year that doesn't just get the yards that are blocked (Redding) but can actually make someone miss in the open field and run through tackles you will see the passing game open up a lot more.. Teams were able to keep everything in front of them knowing we didn't have a RB that had any ability to break away from the defense..
A thin O line without tons of experience, an untested tight end at a position without much depth, and an oft-injured running back who, while talented, has yet to be able to make an impact. Combine that with a totally new offensive coaching staff and a new head coach and I think the uncertainties are very apparent to all.
 
I don't really understand why you think there is uncertainty on the line... everyone of the players that will start this year has a lot of snaps under there belt... Name the last true freshman OL player that has come in and dominated... Its because they aren't as physical as a freshmen... The biggest jump for players on the OL come between there Freshman and sophomore year.. I think you will be very surprised.

Also Ian Thomas at tight end might be our biggest weapon this year.. So IDK how you could say that TE is an issue.. Maybe just because we haven't used a TE in the past...? That's very questionable.

And RB.. while yes we haven't seen him play in real time.. lets not forget that CKW was on record saying when healthy CP is the most talented player hes coached since AP.. And its been reported the staff is doing everything to keep him healthy and have him ready for week 1... If we have a running threat this year that doesn't just get the yards that are blocked (Redding) but can actually make someone miss in the open field and run through tackles you will see the passing game open up a lot more.. Teams were able to keep everything in front of them knowing we didn't have a RB that had any ability to break away from the defense..
You make some good points. It remains to be seen how the OL jells, but there's no question that there's talent and experience within that group. It wouldn't surprise me if the OL ended up exceeding expectations.

With respect to running back, Patrick's injury history creates real doubt as to whether he'll be a major contributor. But there are multiple guys who I believe are well-positioned to step up at that position and generate yards on the ground.

I continue to believe that, as Lagow and the OL go, so goes the 2017 team.
 
You make some good points. It remains to be seen how the OL jells, but there's no question that there's talent and experience within that group. It wouldn't surprise me if the OL ended up exceeding expectations.

With respect to running back, Patrick's injury history creates real doubt as to whether he'll be a major contributor. But there are multiple guys who I believe are well-positioned to step up at that position and generate yards on the ground.

I continue to believe that, as Lagow and the OL go, so goes the 2017 team.

Keeping the Oline somewhat healthy would be huge. Last year, I think we had 9 different starters and 6 different starting lineups combinations, which really hampered any development as a unit, especially considering one of the few constants was a true frosh LT. While its not likely that we go the entire year without injury, if we can keep our primary starting unit intact for at least half our games and only pull in an extra 1 or 2 guys to start the other games, I think we'll be in decent shape.

The OL stayed healthy in 2015 (only 6 starters and 2 different lineups), and I think that is certainly one of the more underappreciated components to the offense success that year.
 
Keeping the Oline somewhat healthy would be huge. Last year, I think we had 9 different starters and 6 different starting lineups combinations, which really hampered any development as a unit, especially considering one of the few constants was a true frosh LT. While its not likely that we go the entire year without injury, if we can keep our primary starting unit intact for at least half our games and only pull in an extra 1 or 2 guys to start the other games, I think we'll be in decent shape.

The OL stayed healthy in 2015 (only 6 starters and 2 different lineups), and I think that is certainly one of the more underappreciated components to the offense success that year.
This is a really good point, especially when it was combined with the departures from 2015 of two starters, the failure of two guys to return to the team in 2016 (one of whom would've likely been a starter, the other in the two deep), and then multiple game injuries to two starters and a third player who likely would've started. This lack of continuity created obvious issues for the entire offense, as did the loss of two top receivers, the top running back, and a new quarterback essentially playing D1 football for the first time.

With this back drop, IU enters 2017 minus their top back (again), a two year starter at tight end, and the aforementioned issues up front. They also have an entirely new offensive coaching staff.

Thankfully, the wideout position has both solid talent and depth, and there is depth, if not great talent, at running back. Quarterback remains uncertain, with Lagow returning after an up and down rookie year and a back up whose next snap will be his first ever in college football. The defense is really going to have to be good for this team to get to .500.
 
Losing Simmie Cobbs last year probably cost the team at least one victory. Having him back in the fold is huge, he can create matchup nightmares. He's a big time player with big time talent.

The oline has a ton of experience returning for this season. It should be and certainly needs to be a team strength this fall. If kids like Brandon Knight and Coy Cronk continue to come along, that unit should impress. It seemed like Wilson raved about Knight and Cronk.

QB is the area that concerns me the most. Lagow has all of the arm talent in the world, but there's more to being a QB than just arm talent. He can't have the interceptions that plagued him last year. You would think with his arm talent, interceptions wouldn't be such an issue.
 
I glanced at that article and they simply don't seem too impressed with Debord as our OC. I'm not entirely sure why, but they stated he is conservative.

I want a tough as nails defense to go along with a high flying offense. Did we trade one for another, that's the million dollar question.
 
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I glanced at that article and they simply don't seem too impressed with Debord as our OC. I'm not entirely sure why, but they stated he is conservative.

I want a tough as nails defense to go along with a high flying offense. Did we trade one for another, that's the million dollar question.
I have no idea where this idea that he's going back to running the power I like at Michigan is coming from. And I really like Bill Connelly. But anyway, the offense at the spring game looked exactly like Wilson's except they went faster and didn't look at the sidelines as much. And they threw to the TE more. But other than that, very fast spread with a lot of passes the cops. And they really only ran a few plays because it's the spring.

Allen and DeBord have said all along that they want to run a spread and want to go really fast, while protecting the football. They came out in the spring and ran a spread and went really fast. We will see how they do at protecting the football. If your (not directed at you, td) biggest complaint about a very successful coordinator is that he is successful in "infuriating" ways over the course of 20 some years, sorry, that's not a very good criticism. If we were going to come out and try to run the 1997 Michigan offense, then sure, I would say that's stupid. We don't have that type of roster. But we aren't.
 
I glanced at that article and they simply don't seem too impressed with Debord as our OC. I'm not entirely sure why, but they stated he is conservative.

I want a tough as nails defense to go along with a high flying offense. Did we trade one for another, that's the million dollar question.
Hopefully our offense has a motivating chip on its shoulder because there are legitimate questions surrounding the O, and some analysts are convinced it's not very good. I thought (and continue to believe) DeBord was a good hire, but some have pointed to the Vols' offensive struggles, with 4* talent, against lesser teams like Ohio and Appalachian State.

I think some of that criticism is unfair. Every team hits a rough patch or two, and the Vols certainly finished strong offensively. I'm confident DeBord will know what to do with the talent he's got, but he won't be throwing the football or opening holes for the RBs. Lagow and the OL have to step up and execute in order for the breakthrough to materialize.
 
It's impossible to make a prediction for a team headed by a first year head coach. I'm just sitting back with a bucket of popcorn waiting for kickoff.
It's not impossible because I'm going to do it. ;) I think IU wins a minimum of 5 and a maximum of 9. I think the most likely is 6 again but I'm hoping for more.
 
I glanced at that article and they simply don't seem too impressed with Debord as our OC. I'm not entirely sure why, but they stated he is conservative.

I want a tough as nails defense to go along with a high flying offense. Did we trade one for another, that's the million dollar question.
They didn't do their homework on Debord.
 
They didn't do their homework on Debord.
DeBord is a very good coach, but he'll be limited by the talent available to him and his fellow offensive coaches along with the relative experience of the combined staff (each is in his first year at IU). There are usually some significant growing pains when an entirely new staff takes the reins.
 
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DeBord is a very good coach, but he'll be limited by the talent available to him and his fellow offensive coaches along with the relative experience of the combined staff (each is in his first year at IU). There are usually some significant growing pains when an entirely new staff takes the reins.
I agree but believe the talent is better on the O side than some think. I have a good feeling about this team and I'm optimistic. If they crash and burn I'll reevaluate that for next year.
 
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I agree but believe the talent is better on the O side than some think. I have a good feeling about this team and I'm optimistic. If they crash and burn I'll reevaluate that for next year.
Hope you're right about the talent though I fear the margin for error is razor thin everywhere except the WR position.
 
I agree but believe the talent is better on the O side than some think. I have a good feeling about this team and I'm optimistic. If they crash and burn I'll reevaluate that for next year.
I agree. There are questions related to Lagow and the OL but there's absolutely talent there. At RB, I recall that Wilson once described Patrick as the best player on the team. Yes, he's had multiple injuries and there's a lingering question as to whether he'll be 100% come August 31 but, even without him, I like the "running back by committee" option. Again, there's talent and experience at that position (Brookins, Natee, Majette, Rodriguez, Gest). Danny Friend is an experienced and better than average TE,and our WRs are possibly the best in the conference.

There hasn't been much talk about special teams, but it's important that Oakes returns to his earlier form, as we need him kicking 3s.
 
I agree but believe the talent is better on the O side than some think. I have a good feeling about this team and I'm optimistic. If they crash and burn I'll reevaluate that for next year.
This position can only be taken by a beaten down Indiana football fan. I'm on the fence, and I don't know what to think about Allen. I was all in on Wilson. The ball is in Allen's court. Show us what you are made of brother.
 
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