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Highland Park Shootings

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You don't get very far in getting people to value life more by glibly urging police to "shoot the guy with thousands of bullets so that he's no longer recognizable." Or by urging police to kill anyone who shoots a gun at them. Or by ranting at people that they are useless and should go f*ck themselves.
The crazies who are shooting people don't value lives anyway.

Making examples out of them by showing other would-be crazy shooter what will happen to their mutilated bodies might make them think twice.

Public executions should be implemented.
 
Yep, this thread hasn't been a poster child for the board. But this is happening all over America. We are all tired of these events and frustrated by them (except for the .01% that want to do these things). So we lash out at one another. And there has gotten to be this idea that one has to immediately set the narrative long before anyone knows what the narrative is.


I think that's a really bad idea. It strikes me as someone wanting attention on themselves and not on whatever cause they wanted. In the Bloomington parade, there was a protest march that went by just before the parade. A group that my wife would have been supportive of, mostly pro-choice and BLM but with other groups mixed it. Two people protesting Native American issues carried an upside-down flag. That offended my wife. So really they lost support by trying to be shocking.

That said, both they and the guy in Hamilton County had a right to do what they did. Intelligence is knowing what rights one has, wisdom is knowing how to use them.
Those are stupid ways of protesting. One of my wife's friends from Punahou School (she and Barrack, then Barry, Obama both graduated from there) is a very liberal pro-choice person and she posted on Facebook that she took a knee during a MLB ball game during the National Anthem. That's not the kind of protest that garners much sympathy or support.
 
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What is enough, 90%? I don't know if we can get the required number to agree the sun comes up in the east.
So we should just ignore the Constitution, since it's so difficult to change? Just disband the Supreme Court?

Or maybe you think Democrats should get to choose which parts of the Constitution you are required to follow?
 
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You are an absolute idiot if you didn't catch the crystal clear implication that sending thoughts and prayers is simply not enough. That was 100% the sentiment. It was OBVIOUS. We need to do something. Enough is enough. We're not 2nd graders, so THINK.
So why doesn't your Party introduce legislation that will amend the Constitution??

Why do you only bitch about it - do something!
 
The crazies who are shooting people don't value lives anyway.

Making examples out of them by showing other would-be crazy shooter what will happen to their mutilated bodies might make them think twice.

Public executions should be implemented.
Current consequences certainly aren't much of a deterrent. Until morale improves....
 
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Anymore there's little difference between the political parties in Washington and prison gangs. Sure, you don't want to join but there's no way around it if you don't want to die (or not get reelected).
The initiation isn't as painful.
 
Fair enough. Thought you might have been referring to the welfare state programs like Medicaid, Medicare, SS expansion, etc.
No, cultural issues. Breakdown of family, drug culture, rise of anti-Americanism in the Universities, etc.

Look at the statistics you posted. Less fetal deaths. Less people in poverty. We should be heading into a utopia based on the arguments you often hear as the fuel for what happens in our inner cities and around the country. We have less racism, less poverty, better health and people who feel like they cannot let their kids walk to the neighborhood park unattended.

The idea that anyone could make a compelling argument that life in the 1950's was better for everyone, even with the blatant racism, should be insane. However, I think that there is an argument there. That is going to be controversial, there were the Emmitt Tills that were terrible. Just awful. However, we see boys like him going to the morgue daily now and it is just kind of the way the world is now, shoulder shrug. We replaced his racist killers with 5 guys who look like him and exponentially kill boys like him.

What we have been doing is a failure.
 
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My niece posted in advance of 4th of July that she would be wearing black all day. I am not sure if she followed through or not.

I enjoyed the music, the fireworks, flew my flag during daylight hours, didn't dishonor the flag by using it as clothing or displying it unlit after sunset, and I generally enjoyed feeling the sense of patriotism and appreciation for our country and for the defenders of our freedom. I refuse to let such sentiments be monopolized by the hate mongers in our society.

Sadly, if you fly a flag these days, people will incorrectly assume that you are a Trumpish traitor.
 
His rights are currently fiercely protected. He cannot be barred from buying anything, nor "watched" for anything.
Legislation just passed by Congress and signed (or will be) by the President provides funding for the states to implement Red Flag laws and policies and requires enhance background checks for those under 21 who wish to buy a gun. Like IUCrazy, I'd be good with banning selling guns to those under 21, but we have to go at this in incremental steps, and there are some incremental steps in this bill. Of course, many of us would like it to go further and maybe they will in the next bill.

 
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Hmmmmm. This probably needs another thread, but I'm not sure I agree with your assessment here.

Poverty rates are nearly 1/2 of what they were in 1960 (18.1% to 8.7% in 2020).
Poverty rate for the elderly (over 65) has dropped from over 18% to 13% (though that has risen quite a bit in the last 5-10 years).
Infant mortality was 26/1000 in 1960 and just 5.5/1000 today.
Illiteracy dropped from 2.4% in 1960 to less than .1% today.
Life expectancy is up from 69 to 79 years

Not saying I don't see some of the problems you see, but "failure" is probably too far IMO.
Now do crime, families without both parents, suicides by gun, suicides by drugs, and black homicide rates. And the national debt that all this 'progress' has run up.

EDIT: And mass shootings/killings
 
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We replaced his racist killers with 5 guys who look like him and exponentially kill boys like him.
Figuring out why that happened might be the most important thing our generation does. I doubt we'll agree too much but I think the one thing we might agree on is that the War on Drugs has been an abysmal failure.

Any commodity which is both illicit and plentiful creates organized crime. That we didn't learn that from Prohibition is astounding. The crime which arose disproportionately affected African American communities. Again, the "why" can be debated but the facts are the facts. Millions of black kids have grown up without fathers/mothers/brothers or with families of broken folks who can't get jobs b/c of their criminal histories. Which furthers the income gaps. Which furthers the education gap. Until one day (probably already happened) there is no gap, it's just two different worlds.

Reeling that back in is on us. How to do it.......well, that's the rub.
 
Now do crime, families without both parents, suicides by gun, suicides by drugs, and black homicide rates. And the national debt that all this 'progress' has run up.
War on Drugs for the bolded. Maybe even suicide too if we agreed drug use is a health issue and not a criminal one.

There's no silver bullet. But as Crazy noted, we are better off than we were in the 50's but something is decaying in our society. Why that's happening.....I don't know specifically.
 
No, cultural issues. Breakdown of family, drug culture, rise of anti-Americanism in the Universities, etc.

Look at the statistics you posted. Less fetal deaths. Less people in poverty. We should be heading into a utopia based on the arguments you often hear as the fuel for what happens in our inner cities and around the country. We have less racism, less poverty, better health and people who feel like they cannot let their kids walk to the neighborhood park unattended.

The idea that anyone could make a compelling argument that life in the 1950's was better for everyone, even with the blatant racism, should be insane. However, I think that there is an argument there. That is going to be controversial, there were the Emmitt Tills that were terrible. Just awful. However, we see boys like him going to the morgue daily now and it is just kind of the way the world is now, shoulder shrug. We replaced his racist killers with 5 guys who look like him and exponentially kill boys like him.

What we have been doing is a failure.
Some crime has changed dramatically. But the murder rate in 1960 was 5.1/100,000. In 2019 it was 5.0/100,000.


So our murder rate is pretty much the same. Burglary is down. Other crimes (rape in particular) are way up. But at least some of the rape statistic is due to far better reporting. Aggravated assault is way up.
 
My niece posted in advance of 4th of July that she would be wearing black all day. I am not sure if she followed through or not.

I enjoyed the music, the fireworks, flew my flag during daylight hours, didn't dishonor the flag by using it as clothing or displying it unlit after sunset, and I generally enjoyed feeling the sense of patriotism and appreciation for our country and for the defenders of our freedom. I refuse to let such sentiments be monopolized by the hate mongers in our society.

Sadly, if you fly a flag these days, people will incorrectly assume that you are a Trumpish traitor.
Your family sounds like a blast. My neighbors all put flags out. No one assumed they were "Trumpish traitors." They knew it was the 4th of July. You are a very strange duck
 
Some crime has changed dramatically. But the murder rate in 1960 was 5.1/100,000. In 2019 it was 5.0/100,000.


So our murder rate is pretty much the same. Burglary is down. Other crimes (rape in particular) are way up. But at least some of the rape statistic is due to far better reporting. Aggravated assault is way up.

2019 is the wrong time to choose. It skyrocketed the last two plus years
 
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War on Drugs for the bolded. Maybe even suicide too if we agreed drug use is a health issue and not a criminal one.

There's no silver bullet. But as Crazy noted, we are better off than we were in the 50's but something is decaying in our society. Why that's happening.....I don't know specifically.
I think a big part of the problem is the lack of 2 parent families.

When the government takes over the role as father, these are the consequences.

We may be better of economically - we should be, considering our economy - but socially we are going backwards. Quickly.
 
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You are an absolute idiot if you didn't catch the crystal clear implication that sending thoughts and prayers is simply not enough. That was 100% the sentiment. It was OBVIOUS. We need to do something. Enough is enough. We're not 2nd graders, so THINK.
Nonsense. Your initial post was flame bait and it was successful.
 
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Hard to get stats that recent. But if his point is that 50 years of those policies have contributed to this, why dd it not show until the 51st year?
Honestly Marv I didn't read any of it. I'm just saying the murder rate has skyrocketed the last two years - since 19
 
Legislation just passed by Congress and signed (or will be) by the President provides funding for the states to implement Red Flag laws and policies and requires enhance background checks for those under 21 who wish to buy a gun. Like IUCrazy, I'd be good with banning selling guns to those under 21...
In this case he was not under 21 and (apparently) none of his family members had any concerns that would have led to any "red flags."

I also favor the under 21 ban. Even DeSantis allowed that to pass, in Florida of all places. It would help in some cases, but probably not this one, unless he bought his mass people killer 2 or more years ago.

The thing that would have helped here is a blanket ban on such weaponry. The 1990s era assault weapons ban was never deemed unconstitutional. It merely grouped such weapons with others such as nukes, cannons, hand grenades, tanks, etc., defining them as generally lacking legitimate civlian uses. If you are running a ranch in grizzly bear country, maybe you have a legit use. But put the hurdle out there to justify it.
 
Honestly Marv I didn't read any of it. I'm just saying the murder rate has skyrocketed the last two years - since 19
Gotta be tied into the pandemic itself and responses. I wonder how many more domestic violence murders were committed just by people having to be around each other more.

Also, consider this...the black markets dominated by crime respond to economic forces like anything else. How did the pandemic response affect the drug trade. Was there consolidation or expansion? I would assume both come with violence.
 
In this case he was not under 21 and (apparently) none of his family members had any concerns that would have led to any "red flags."

I also favor the under 21 ban. Even DeSantis allowed that to pass, in Florida of all places. It would help in some cases, but probably not this one, unless he bought his mass people killer 2 or more years ago.

The thing that would have helped here is a blanket ban on such weaponry. The 1990s era assault weapons ban was never deemed unconstitutional. It merely grouped such weapons with others such as nukes, cannons, hand grenades, tanks, etc., defining them as generally lacking legitimate civlian uses. If you are running a ranch in grizzly bear country, maybe you have a legit use. But put the hurdle out there to justify it.
Can you define what you want banned?
Be specific
 
Gotta be tied into the pandemic itself and responses. I wonder how many more domestic violence murders were committed just by people having to be around each other more.

Also, consider this...the black markets dominated by crime respond to economic forces like anything else. How did the pandemic response affect the drug trade. Was there consolidation or expansion? I would assume both come with violence.

Big time gun sales and gun trade. Less cops after the summer of love. And people went nuts from Covid
 
My niece posted in advance of 4th of July that she would be wearing black all day. I am not sure if she followed through or not.

I enjoyed the music, the fireworks, flew my flag during daylight hours, didn't dishonor the flag by using it as clothing or displying it unlit after sunset, and I generally enjoyed feeling the sense of patriotism and appreciation for our country and for the defenders of our freedom. I refuse to let such sentiments be monopolized by the hate mongers in our society.

Sadly, if you fly a flag these days, people will incorrectly assume that you are a Trumpish traitor.
I feel sorry for your niece. She’s gonna have a tough life unless she snaps-to soon.
 
Gotta be tied into the pandemic itself and responses. I wonder how many more domestic violence murders were committed just by people having to be around each other more.

Also, consider this...the black markets dominated by crime respond to economic forces like anything else. How did the pandemic response affect the drug trade. Was there consolidation or expansion? I would assume both come with violence.
Hasn't drug usage gone up? that can account for some of this.
 
“Hate America First” has been replaced by “Hate America Most”
"American love it or leave it" has been replaced by "America, love it and strive to make it even better".

Truly inspiring! Love the younger generation. My kids are so much kinder, more compassionate, and more accepting than my childhood friends were.
 
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The gun laws are only as good as the prosecutors who enforce them. Therein lies the problem. Go ahead and raise the age to 21 to purchase, I have no issue with that. However, we have all sorts of gun laws on the books now that are among the first to get dropped for the revolving door we have for criminals in this country. Would that have helped with this nutcase or the last one? No. But these guys are the weird exceptions to that rule. Far and away the gun violence in this country is committed by people who have had numerous run ins with the criminal justice system. They often have a rap sheet that is full of less serious crimes where they are caught and released.

I can accept some restrictions on certain things I guess, but so much of this legislating just strikes me as trying to put a bandaid on the failures of the cultural experiment we have been on since the 1960's. What is the point of new laws when we don't even enforce the ones we already have?
And, they depend on the willingness of law officers to enforce them too.


It's not a problem limited to liberals.
 
Has he been arrested and sentenced for use of controlled substances? LINK?

Has he been committed to any inpatient mental institution? LINK?

Here's a link suggesting that his gun purchases were perfected legal and citing family members describing him as quiet, lonely, but otherwise "normal".



you don’t end up looking like that without being a user or having mental health problems. He was home schooled because of his mental problems.

Mental institution does not mean inpatient
 
Big time gun sales and gun trade. Less cops after the summer of love. And people went nuts from Covid
Until we fix the cultural issues nothing will improve. We need strong 2 parent homes. Parents need to stay married. Yes, it’s hard at times. Our kids deserve it.
We need to drastically change the qualifications for “disability”. More and more people spend more time at the psychologist trying to be deemed “disabled” than they do looking to better themselves. Once they are down that rabbit hole there is no getting out.
 
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