ADVERTISEMENT

Hearing quite a bit of criticism of TV production of WKU game

Tokyo Steve

Junior
Sep 5, 2001
1,021
2,079
113
Most criticism is of camera angles and such.

I'll add my example of a pretty major flub.
Charles Campbell nailed a field goal to make the score 17-7. After the ensuing kickoff, the announcers went back and raised quite a bit of a stink saying that the WKU player did NOT appear to be lined up off sides. Well, DUH, the video they were using to make this point was of the second kick, from the 36 yard line, rather than the first kick, from the 41 yard line. Goodness, gracious, that's pretty embarrassing.

Then they said "Indiana got away with one." Well, no . . . no Indiana didn't get away with one. The off sides call was correct. Furthermore, the announcers never came back to correct their error. In fact they later in the broadcast cited that play, saying how big it was in determining how the end of the game was being played, again insinuating that IU got away with one.
 
Most criticism is of camera angles and such.

I'll add my example of a pretty major flub.
Charles Campbell nailed a field goal to make the score 17-7. After the ensuing kickoff, the announcers went back and raised quite a bit of a stink saying that the WKU player did NOT appear to be lined up off sides. Well, DUH, the video they were using to make this point was of the second kick, from the 36 yard line, rather than the first kick, from the 41 yard line. Goodness, gracious, that's pretty embarrassing.

Then they said "Indiana got away with one." Well, no . . . no Indiana didn't get away with one. The off sides call was correct. Furthermore, the announcers never came back to correct their error. In fact they later in the broadcast cited that play, saying how big it was in determining how the end of the game was being played, again insinuating that IU got away with one.

What the announcers and the Refs completely missed was W Ky "getting away with" what should have been a clear Holding Penalty by the W Ky OT against Ryder Anderson #10 down near the Goal Line on W KY's only Rushing TD...

Their guy him hooked and grasped him across the chest and had him with a "horse collar" (hand inside the pads behind the neck move) in back... Virtually unmissable at Any angle... Our guy basically got mugged... No Call... 🙄😡 🙈🙉😖

How the Refs and the Announcers missed that one is extraordinarily puzzling...

I thought the game was generally well called but That one was a head scratcher...

Possible point spread adjustment for someone??? 🤔
 
Last edited:
CBSS is generally about one step above a home movie made by 7 year olds as far as production value goes. Everything about it feels cheap.
There were several shots where the camera man appeared to be carrying the camera at his side and didn’t realize the thing was on.
To add insult to injury, when I went to replay the DVR recording, the whole game was nothing but a black screen. Maybe it was me who was “amateur hour?”
 
It’s a mid major conference TV contract. What would you expect? It was fine. I’m just grateful In this age we can watch every game live. It wasn’t all that long ago I was dragging out computer cables to try and stream something from the depths of the dark web to my tv.
 
It’s a mid major conference TV contract. What would you expect? It was fine. I’m just grateful In this age we can watch every game live. It wasn’t all that long ago I was dragging out computer cables to try and stream something from the depths of the dark web to my tv.

Looked like one of the telecasts here of one of the major Cincinnati power schools (St. X, Moeller, Elder, Colerain, etc). The small stadium, the slightly-lower lighting and the lack of multiple cameras. At least the high school announcers are superior.
 
Most criticism is of camera angles and such.

I'll add my example of a pretty major flub.
Charles Campbell nailed a field goal to make the score 17-7. After the ensuing kickoff, the announcers went back and raised quite a bit of a stink saying that the WKU player did NOT appear to be lined up off sides. Well, DUH, the video they were using to make this point was of the second kick, from the 36 yard line, rather than the first kick, from the 41 yard line. Goodness, gracious, that's pretty embarrassing.

Then they said "Indiana got away with one." Well, no . . . no Indiana didn't get away with one. The off sides call was correct. Furthermore, the announcers never came back to correct their error. In fact they later in the broadcast cited that play, saying how big it was in determining how the end of the game was being played, again insinuating that IU got away with one.
yikes
 
Yeah, the announcers were only 1 step above the BTN student U production. The color guy, in particular, seemed like a twenty-something former college quarterback trying to pretend he is a journalism major.

But, considering who was playing and where, it wasn't too surprising. That gig isn't easy, especially without a lot of training or experience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IUgradman
Yeah, the announcers were only 1 step above the BTN student U production. The color guy, in particular, seemed like a twenty-something former college quarterback trying to pretend he is a journalism major.

But, considering who was playing and where, it wasn't too surprising. That gig isn't easy, especially without a lot of training or experience.
I can't speak for the other BIG student broadcasters, but these clowns were way behind the IU guys we have seen. Top notch young talent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hoosier roadtrips
I can't speak for the other BIG student broadcasters, but these clowns were way behind the IU guys we have seen. Top notch young talent.
The very few student U productions that I saw, which were early season basketball games with actual college kids announcing were not as good as the CBS sports guys.

But, they shouldn't be expected to be. As far as (presumably) professional guys, the CBS guys were the worst I've seen. Still better than student U kids.
 
The very few student U productions that I saw, which were early season basketball games with actual college kids announcing were not as good as the CBS sports guys.

But, they shouldn't be expected to be. As far as (presumably) professional guys, the CBS guys were the worst I've seen. Still better than student U kids.
Strongly disagree with respect to the IU students, but ok.
 
spare me the ridiculous bitching about the announcers, getting the games on tv is great.

should have and could have been that way since the 50s in market, as with bball, but unbridled greed, not tech, kept us from getting all the games, in market anyway, for literally decades.

what isn't great, is paying out the ass for it, when commercials alone generate way more than enough to cover costs which are relatively very low today, with a sizable profit to boot.

it doesn't have to be that way.

stop the monopolistic anti competitive bundling that's flat illegal literally everywhere else in the economy, and rightfully so, and that beyond absurd cost becomes far less absurd.
 
Last edited:
spare me the ridiculous bitching about the announcers, getting the games on tv is great.

should have and could have been that way since the 50s in market, as with bball, but unbridled greed, not tech, kept us from getting all the games, in market anyway, for literally decades.

what isn't great, is paying out the ass for it, when commercials alone generate way more than enough to cover costs which are relatively very low today, with a sizable profit to boot.

it doesn't have to be that way.

stop the monopolistic anti competitive bundling that's flat illegal literally everywhere else in the economy, and rightfully so, and that beyond absurd cost becomes far less absurd.
But, but, but...Ive been reminded ad nauseam since I was a kid that markets get it right and media companies don't need to be regulated...

Are you telling me the saint of all sainted saints, Saint Ronnie, was *gasp* wrong?

DWS
 
But, but, but...Ive been reminded ad nauseam since I was a kid that markets get it right and media companies don't need to be regulated...

Are you telling me the saint of all sainted saints, Saint Ronnie, was *gasp* wrong?

DWS
I’d like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Thanks in advance.

Signed,

Drooling While Stupid
 
The very few student U productions that I saw, which were early season basketball games with actual college kids announcing were not as good as the CBS sports guys.

But, they shouldn't be expected to be. As far as (presumably) professional guys, the CBS guys were the worst I've seen. Still better than student U kids.
Dave Ryan has given me the creeps for years. Once an ESPN guy who did occasional NHL and MLB games in addition to college sports (and really wasn't good at any of it).

Aaron Murray has some potential, but he needs a better PxP partner around him.
 
spare me the ridiculous bitching about the announcers, getting the games on tv is great.

should have and could have been that way since the 50s in market, as with bball, but unbridled greed, not tech, kept us from getting all the games, in market anyway, for literally decades.

what isn't great, is paying out the ass for it, when commercials alone generate way more than enough to cover costs which are relatively very low today, with a sizable profit to boot.

it doesn't have to be that way.

stop the monopolistic anti competitive bundling that's flat illegal literally everywhere else in the economy, and rightfully so, and that beyond absurd cost becomes far less absurd.

Those are some pretty strong claims.... got any facts to back 'em up and exactly what are you saying?
 
I remember the camera was like a second or two behind the action every now and again, and I had no idea what transpired. I didn't think it was that hard to follow the ball, but I could be wrong.
 
Those are some pretty strong claims.... got any facts to back 'em up and exactly what are you saying?

what is it you want backed up?

that IU fans "in market" could have gotten all the games on tv since the 50s, much like bball did absent the NCAA money men nixing it, or that the monopolistic anti competitive forced bundle greatly drives up your pay tv bill, whether cable/satellite or streamed.



IU basketball has been televised since the 50s, and in market and many in state fans have gotten as much or more coverage of IU bball as today for 50 yrs, and for much of that time it was free to viewers as commercials more than cover the cost.

The Bob Knight Show was ch 4's highest rated studio show, though obviously not as highly rated as the games themselves.

televising all the football games in market was no more technically problematic than doing bball, but the NCAA, (a coalition/cartel of the schools themselves), wouldn't let them do it because they wanted to force everyone to watch their 1 monopoly game of the week.

when IU played PU for the trip to the Rose Bowl in 67, PU was rated 3rd in the country, had an All American QB, and a running back who finished 2nd for the Heisman,

IU was highly ranked as well, and the country's rags to riches team.

yet that game was banned from being televised even in Indiana by the NCAA, because they wanted everyone forced to watch OSU-Mich, and no other game was allowed to be shown while OSU-Mich was on.

ch 4 would have loved to have shown that game and all the IU fball games just as they did with bball, but the NCAA wouldn't let them. (ch 4 did show a replay of the 67 IU-PU game at midnight that night, since it was technically the next day).

as for the cable bill and the forced bundle, do you think your bill would necessarily be as high if you didn't have to buy every channel?

perhaps yes or no, depending on if you actually bought every channel.

but look at it a different way.

say when you went to the grocery you couldn't by anything in the store unless you also bought a gal of milk, hamburger, toilet paper, bread, potatoes, and 40 other of the most popular items with it.

again, you can't buy anything unless you also buy toilet paper and milk and bread.

now say you are the monopoly supplier of milk or bread in the area.

the grocery you sell your milk to can't sell anything to anyone, unless they also sell them a gal of your milk too.

what impact on how much you can charge the grocery for a gal of your milk do you have, when the grocery has to have a gal of your milk to sell anything else?


point being, if you have a "must have" channel in a forced bundle, then when negotiating with the pay tv company for your channel, and it's a channel many viewers see as must have because it has IU or NFL games or Fox News, your leverage isn't just that the pay tv provider will lose out on the profit from your one channel, but will lose out on the entire $140 mo revenue from all the channels combined to the pay company you do have a contract with, often with all the revenue from the internet on top since that gets bundled in as well a lot of times.

when BTN first started, News Corp/Fox who controlled BTN, also controlled Directv at the time.

News Corp/Fox wanted a price nationally that Comcast, Time Warner, and literally every other big national cable/internet provider was unwilling to pay.

so for the first yr, no big cable provider carried BTN.

but Directv did because they were News Corp too, thus Dish did also.

but for those who had to have BTN, they had to drop Comcast or Time Warner or whomever their cable company was completely, and get Directv or Dish.

so for every customer who quit their cable company to get Directv for BTN, said cable company didn't just lose the dollar a month they would have made from BTN, they lost the entire $80 month revenue they got from the cable tv bundle, and sometimes the $40 plus bucks on top they got from internet, since those selling DTV and Dish were partnering with AT&T internet.

BTN was able to leverage not just the revenue from their channel alone, but was able to leverage the entire bundle's $120-$140 monthly revenue, just for it's one channel.

point being, the bundle doesn't just force you to buy all the channels in the bundle, but it also drastically affects how much individual "must have" channels can charge the pay tv company for their one channel, since if the pay tv company doesn't have say BTN, then not only does the pay tv company lose out on the little it makes from BTN, but may lose out on the entire $140 mo it gets from everything, if the subscriber jumps providers to get BTN.

this totally perverts the market and how much one "must have" channel can charge, since that one channel can leverage the entire monthly cable/internet bill for just their one channel.

obviously such "buy everything or nothing" collusion agreements between providers of many different products is illegal everywhere else in business, except pay tv. (which is essentially a utility as is internet, and was once treated as such).

when cable started it was legal in pay tv, because channels with commercials didn't charge for their channel, so the issue was moot for decades..

how it stays legal now that they do is a sordid tale, but hint, Comcast/NBC is now the media arm of the DNC along with CNN/Warner Media currently owned by AT&T, and Fox News is the media arm of the RNC.

and Comcast/NBC and CNN/Warner/AT&T can make or break the candidacy of many to most national office Dems, and Fox News can make or break the candidacy of many national office Pubs.

Comcast/NBC, CNN/Warner Media, and Fox/News Corp, all benefit greatly from the forced bundle that's totally illegal everywhere else in the economy, and always has been, and don't want it changed.

and CBS/Viacom and Disney/ABC/ESPN, the other major tv news outlets, don't want it changed either.
 
Last edited:
What the announcers and the Refs completely missed was W Ky "getting away with" what should have been a clear Holding Penalty by the W Ky OT against Ryder Anderson #10 down near the Goal Line on W KY's only Rushing TD...

Their guy him hooked and grasped him across the chest and had him with a "horse collar" (hand inside the pads behind the neck move) in back... Virtually unmissable at Any angle... Our guy basically got mugged... No Call... 🙄😡 🙈🙉😖

How the Refs and the Announcers missed that one is extraordinarily puzzling...

I thought the game was generally well called but That one was a head scratcher...

Possible point spread adjustment for someone??? 🤔
We watched the first half last night and the same thing happened to McFadden on a big play. The refs and announcers missed that one, too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 76-1
what is it you want backed up?

that IU fans "in market" could have gotten all the games on tv since the 50s, much like bball did absent the NCAA money men nixing it, or that the monopolistic anti competitive forced bundle greatly drives up your pay tv bill, whether cable/satellite or streamed.



IU basketball has been televised since the 50s, and in market and many in state fans have gotten as much or more coverage of IU bball as today for 50 yrs, and for much of that time it was free to viewers as commercials more than cover the cost.

The Bob Knight Show was ch 4's highest rated studio show, though obviously not as highly rated as the games themselves.

televising all the football games in market was no more technically problematic than doing bball, but the NCAA, (a coalition/cartel of the schools themselves), wouldn't let them do it because they wanted to force everyone to watch their 1 monopoly game of the week.

when IU played PU for the trip to the Rose Bowl in 67, PU was rated 3rd in the country, had an All American QB, and a running back who finished 2nd for the Heisman,

IU was highly ranked as well, and the country's rags to riches team.

yet that game was banned from being televised even in Indiana by the NCAA, because they wanted everyone forced to watch OSU-Mich, and no other game was allowed to be shown while OSU-Mich was on.

ch 4 would have loved to have shown that game and all the IU fball games just as they did with bball, but the NCAA wouldn't let them. (ch 4 did show a replay of the 67 IU-PU game at midnight that night, since it was technically the next day).

as for the cable bill and the forced bundle, do you think your bill would necessarily be as high if you didn't have to buy every channel?

perhaps yes or no, depending on if you actually bought every channel.

but look at it a different way.

say when you went to the grocery you couldn't by anything in the store unless you also bought a gal of milk, hamburger, toilet paper, bread, potatoes, and 40 other of the most popular items with it.

again, you can't buy anything unless you also buy toilet paper and milk and bread.

now say you are the monopoly supplier of milk or bread in the area.

the grocery you sell your milk to can't sell anything to anyone, unless they also sell them a gal of your milk too.

what impact on how much you can charge the grocery for a gal of your milk do you have, when the grocery has to have a gal of your milk to sell anything else?


point being, if you have a "must have" channel in a forced bundle, then when negotiating with the pay tv company for your channel, and it's a channel many viewers see as must have because it has IU or NFL games or Fox News, your leverage isn't just that the pay tv provider will lose out on the profit from your one channel, but will lose out on the entire $140 mo revenue from all the channels combined to the pay company you do have a contract with, often with all the revenue from the internet on top since that gets bundled in as well a lot of times.

when BTN first started, News Corp/Fox who controlled BTN, also controlled Directv at the time.

News Corp/Fox wanted a price nationally that Comcast, Time Warner, and literally every other big national cable/internet provider was unwilling to pay.

so for the first yr, no big cable provider carried BTN.

but Directv did because they were News Corp too, thus Dish did also.

but for those who had to have BTN, they had to drop Comcast or Time Warner or whomever their cable company was completely, and get Directv or Dish.

so for every customer who quit their cable company to get Directv for BTN, said cable company didn't just lose the dollar a month they would have made from BTN, they lost the entire $80 month revenue they got from the cable tv bundle, and sometimes the $40 plus bucks on top they got from internet, since those selling DTV and Dish were partnering with AT&T internet.

BTN was able to leverage not just the revenue from their channel alone, but was able to leverage the entire bundle's $120-$140 monthly revenue, just for it's one channel.

point being, the bundle doesn't just force you to buy all the channels in the bundle, but it also drastically affects how much individual "must have" channels can charge the pay tv company for their one channel, since if the pay tv company doesn't have say BTN, then not only does the pay tv company lose out on the little it makes from BTN, but may lose out on the entire $140 mo it gets from everything, if the subscriber jumps providers to get BTN.

this totally perverts the market and how much one "must have" channel can charge, since that one channel can leverage the entire monthly cable/internet bill for just their one channel.

obviously such "buy everything or nothing" collusion agreements between providers of many different products is illegal everywhere else in business, except pay tv. (which is essentially a utility as is internet, and was once treated as such).

when cable started it was legal in pay tv, because channels with commercials didn't charge for their channel, so the issue was moot for decades..

how it stays legal now that they do is a sordid tale, but hint, Comcast/NBC is now the media arm of the DNC along with CNN/Warner Media currently owned by AT&T, and Fox News is the media arm of the RNC.

and Comcast/NBC and CNN/Warner/AT&T can make or break the candidacy of many to most national office Dems, and Fox News can make or break the candidacy of many national office Pubs.

Comcast/NBC, CNN/Warner Media, and Fox/News Corp, all benefit greatly from the forced bundle that's totally illegal everywhere else in the economy, and always has been, and don't want it changed.

and CBS/Viacom and Disney/ABC/ESPN, the other major tv news outlets, don't want it changed either.

Before I answer this and blow the holy-f*uk out of almost everything you said... paragraph by paragraph... please tell me what your broadcast experience is?

I will let you know that after nearly 40 years of producing 500+ network sports programs for ESPN,CBS and NBC... having been involved in the budgeting for programs rights proposals to the nets..... AND having spent a couple years at Ch. 4 in the 1980's selling IU and the Bob Knight Show,... The IU & Purdue Sports Networks before they were bought by Learfield, etc..... (I could go on with more but I'll stop there)..... I have a real good... no, make that excellent idea of what I'm talking about. So fire away...

So, what makes you an expert and makes you think that what you THINK you know is right? Tell me that first.
 
As I said... tell me what direct experience... not second hand... you have with broadcast sports and/or WTTV and then I'll answer it.


Until then... I'll wait.


just as i thought, you've got nothing.

i tried to be a nice guy and give a simplified answer to your inquiry, dumbed down some so readers could get the drift of what i was saying on a very complex subject.

you came back with a rude smart ass response, tried playing your hotshot card thinking that would impress me, and bragged you could "blow the wholly f out of everything i said, paragraph by paragraph".

you want to do this hotshot, go for it, try and "blow the f out of what i said, paragraph by paragraph".

good luck with that.
 
Last edited:
what is it you want backed up?

that IU fans "in market" could have gotten all the games on tv since the 50s, much like bball did absent the NCAA money men nixing it, or that the monopolistic anti competitive forced bundle greatly drives up your pay tv bill, whether cable/satellite or streamed. - JSENLEO: You're half right....Yep, most IU games have been broadcast since the 50's but the Big 10 conference is who really nixed all "local" carries for IU, not the NCAA.

IU basketball has been televised since the 50s, and in market and many in state fans have gotten as much or more coverage of IU bball as today for 50 yrs, and for much of that time it was free to viewers as commercials more than cover the cost. JSENLEO: Okay?... what's that got to do with it?... Does this go back to your harrang from your earlier post where you bitch that "unbridled greed, not tech" was the reason people haven't been able to get IU games since the '50's?...

The Bob Knight Show was ch 4's highest rated studio show, though obviously not as highly rated as the games themselves. JSENLEO: otally incorrect.........NEVER was The Bob Knight Show Ch. 4s HIGHEST rated show, that wasn't a live game... it was highly rated and in the weekly top 5 but never the highest as you claim. You seem to think everyone in Central Indiana watched Ch 4 solely for IU.... not true. There are more people out there who could give-a-s*** about IU or sports in general than most of us here like to think.

televising all the football games in market was no more technically problematic than doing bball, but the NCAA, (a coalition/cartel of the schools themselves), wouldn't let them do it because they wanted to force everyone to watch their 1 monopoly game of the week. JSENLEO: This is your dumbest statement so far... noticed I said, "so far".... You've been talking about "since the 50's" so I'll address that time period, the 1950's through to about 2005 or 2010.... 1.... The cost to produce football versus basketball durning that time was 2 to 3 times as much. 3 to 4 times more cabling was need because of the sheer size of the area being covered and cable runs that were 4-5 times longer, which needed more monitoring (especially during the cold rainy part of the fall)... lack of easily accesable power need, much larger crews because of the need for more cameras and the fact they had very long cable runs back to the truck made.... etc.
2....Basketball was and still is one of the easiest and least expense to make. The sheer size of a football stadium vs. a basketball gym and the fact that most if not all gym's had the appropriate power and accesablity that most football stadiums did not... that's enough.


when IU played PU for the trip to the Rose Bowl in 67, PU was rated 3rd in the country, had an All American QB, and a running back who finished 2nd for the Heisman,

IU was highly ranked as well, and the country's rags to riches team.

yet that game was banned from being televised even in Indiana by the NCAA, because they wanted everyone forced to watch OSU-Mich, and no other game was allowed to be shown while OSU-Mich was on. JSENLEO: BANNED?! Just a little hyperbole there don't ya think... that was part of the NCAA contract with the networks at that time.... If they let IU & Purdue air then they have to let every other school in the country air their games as the same time.... that's just basic business... It's all changed since then obviously.

ch 4 would have loved to have shown that game and all the IU fball games just as they did with bball, but the NCAA wouldn't let them. (ch 4 did show a replay of the 67 IU-PU game at midnight that night, since it was technically the next day). JSENLEO: Of course WTTV would have loved to have shown the game... as Channels 6, 8 and 13 would have too.... but WTTV didn't have the money or resources available, to go along with having program commitments that didn't allow them the flexibility to take programs off without reimbursement to the syndicators... which would have wiped out any profit.

as for the cable bill and the forced bundle, do you think your bill would necessarily be as high if you didn't have to buy every channel?

perhaps yes or no, depending on if you actually bought every channel.

but look at it a different way.

say when you went to the grocery you couldn't by anything in the store unless you also bought a gal of milk, hamburger, toilet paper, bread, potatoes, and 40 other of the most popular items with it.

again, you can't buy anything unless you also buy toilet paper and milk and bread.

now say you are the monopoly supplier of milk or bread in the area.

the grocery you sell your milk to can't sell anything to anyone, unless they also sell them a gal of your milk too.

what impact on how much you can charge the grocery for a gal of your milk do you have, when the grocery has to have a gal of your milk to sell anything else?


point being, if you have a "must have" channel in a forced bundle, then when negotiating with the pay tv company for your channel, and it's a channel many viewers see as must have because it has IU or NFL games or Fox News, your leverage isn't just that the pay tv provider will lose out on the profit from your one channel, but will lose out on the entire $140 mo revenue from all the channels combined to the pay company you do have a contract with, often with all the revenue from the internet on top since that gets bundled in as well a lot of times.

when BTN first started, News Corp/Fox who controlled BTN, also controlled Directv at the time.

News Corp/Fox wanted a price nationally that Comcast, Time Warner, and literally every other big national cable/internet provider was unwilling to pay.

so for the first yr, no big cable provider carried BTN.

but Directv did because they were News Corp too, thus Dish did also.

but for those who had to have BTN, they had to drop Comcast or Time Warner or whomever their cable company was completely, and get Directv or Dish.

so for every customer who quit their cable company to get Directv for BTN, said cable company didn't just lose the dollar a month they would have made from BTN, they lost the entire $80 month revenue they got from the cable tv bundle, and sometimes the $40 plus bucks on top they got from internet, since those selling DTV and Dish were partnering with AT&T internet.

BTN was able to leverage not just the revenue from their channel alone, but was able to leverage the entire bundle's $120-$140 monthly revenue, just for it's one channel.

point being, the bundle doesn't just force you to buy all the channels in the bundle, but it also drastically affects how much individual "must have" channels can charge the pay tv company for their one channel, since if the pay tv company doesn't have say BTN, then not only does the pay tv company lose out on the little it makes from BTN, but may lose out on the entire $140 mo it gets from everything, if the subscriber jumps providers to get BTN.

this totally perverts the market and how much one "must have" channel can charge, since that one channel can leverage the entire monthly cable/internet bill for just their one channel.

obviously such "buy everything or nothing" collusion agreements between providers of many different products is illegal everywhere else in business, except pay tv. (which is essentially a utility as is internet, and was once treated as such).

when cable started it was legal in pay tv, because channels with commercials didn't charge for their channel, so the issue was moot for decades..

how it stays legal now that they do is a sordid tale, but hint, Comcast/NBC is now the media arm of the DNC along with CNN/Warner Media currently owned by AT&T, and Fox News is the media arm of the RNC.

and Comcast/NBC and CNN/Warner/AT&T can make or break the candidacy of many to most national office Dems, and Fox News can make or break the candidacy of many national office Pubs.

Comcast/NBC, CNN/Warner Media, and Fox/News Corp, all benefit greatly from the forced bundle that's totally illegal everywhere else in the economy, and always has been, and don't want it changed.

and CBS/Viacom and Disney/ABC/ESPN, the other major tv news outlets, don't want it changed either.
 
Last edited:
Your comments, that I'm bothering to answer, are in bold red under the paragraphs.... as for you...

What a chicken shit! You can't back up anything can you... at least I have credentials and first hand knowledge of what I speak... Obviously you don't...

As for the rest of what you posted regarding bundling, the Big Ten Net... all of the bottom parts where you come off as some delusional, paranoid conspiracy theorist.... I don't see what any of that really has to do with this.... Plus, you're so incoherent and rambling that I gave up trying to understand what your point was. The paragraph that I highlighted in Blue... you know, the paragraph that's one extremely long run-on sentence (and, you have more than a few of those)... illustrates my point and why I didn't bother to address you any further.

Okay, most of the facts you stated about the history of the Big Ten Net and the cable contracts are correct but I will tell that when the Big Ten Net was first forming and asked us to submit RFP's we said,... "No thanks." They didn't want to pay anywhere near the going rate we were getting from the other Networks. Most of the other upper-tier program packagers turned down doing games for them as well... and. during the first few years of the Big Ten Net the poor production value showed! Terrible camera work, shaky at best announcing, graphics, timing.. you name it. It's gotten much better in the last few years, but some of games that aren't that desirable... get the "C" team crews. Regardless of the network, the least desirable teams get the lower level crews... sorry everyone, but I have to say this because it's true... The WKU vs. IU game is a perfect example.... No matter how you look at it there are not enough eyeballs that are going to tune in for them to put any dollars behind it.

If you wanna keep playing go ahead, but please,... try to make sense.
 
Last edited:
Most criticism is of camera angles and such.

I'll add my example of a pretty major flub.
Charles Campbell nailed a field goal to make the score 17-7. After the ensuing kickoff, the announcers went back and raised quite a bit of a stink saying that the WKU player did NOT appear to be lined up off sides. Well, DUH, the video they were using to make this point was of the second kick, from the 36 yard line, rather than the first kick, from the 41 yard line. Goodness, gracious, that's pretty embarrassing.

Then they said "Indiana got away with one." Well, no . . . no Indiana didn't get away with one. The off sides call was correct. Furthermore, the announcers never came back to correct their error. In fact they later in the broadcast cited that play, saying how big it was in determining how the end of the game was being played, again insinuating that IU got away with one.
I saw the same announcer error about the kick. I thought that was just a horrible announcer error. Maybe the “truck” told them they had the correct replay. If so, they still should have recognized the yard lines were different.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 76-1
what is it you want backed up?

that IU fans "in market" could have gotten all the games on tv since the 50s, much like bball did absent the NCAA money men nixing it, or that the monopolistic anti competitive forced bundle greatly drives up your pay tv bill, whether cable/satellite or streamed.



IU basketball has been televised since the 50s, and in market and many in state fans have gotten as much or more coverage of IU bball as today for 50 yrs, and for much of that time it was free to viewers as commercials more than cover the cost.

The Bob Knight Show was ch 4's highest rated studio show, though obviously not as highly rated as the games themselves.

televising all the football games in market was no more technically problematic than doing bball, but the NCAA, (a coalition/cartel of the schools themselves), wouldn't let them do it because they wanted to force everyone to watch their 1 monopoly game of the week.

when IU played PU for the trip to the Rose Bowl in 67, PU was rated 3rd in the country, had an All American QB, and a running back who finished 2nd for the Heisman,

IU was highly ranked as well, and the country's rags to riches team.

yet that game was banned from being televised even in Indiana by the NCAA, because they wanted everyone forced to watch OSU-Mich, and no other game was allowed to be shown while OSU-Mich was on.

ch 4 would have loved to have shown that game and all the IU fball games just as they did with bball, but the NCAA wouldn't let them. (ch 4 did show a replay of the 67 IU-PU game at midnight that night, since it was technically the next day).

as for the cable bill and the forced bundle, do you think your bill would necessarily be as high if you didn't have to buy every channel?

perhaps yes or no, depending on if you actually bought every channel.

but look at it a different way.

say when you went to the grocery you couldn't by anything in the store unless you also bought a gal of milk, hamburger, toilet paper, bread, potatoes, and 40 other of the most popular items with it.

again, you can't buy anything unless you also buy toilet paper and milk and bread.

now say you are the monopoly supplier of milk or bread in the area.

the grocery you sell your milk to can't sell anything to anyone, unless they also sell them a gal of your milk too.

what impact on how much you can charge the grocery for a gal of your milk do you have, when the grocery has to have a gal of your milk to sell anything else?


point being, if you have a "must have" channel in a forced bundle, then when negotiating with the pay tv company for your channel, and it's a channel many viewers see as must have because it has IU or NFL games or Fox News, your leverage isn't just that the pay tv provider will lose out on the profit from your one channel, but will lose out on the entire $140 mo revenue from all the channels combined to the pay company you do have a contract with, often with all the revenue from the internet on top since that gets bundled in as well a lot of times.

when BTN first started, News Corp/Fox who controlled BTN, also controlled Directv at the time.

News Corp/Fox wanted a price nationally that Comcast, Time Warner, and literally every other big national cable/internet provider was unwilling to pay.

so for the first yr, no big cable provider carried BTN.

but Directv did because they were News Corp too, thus Dish did also.

but for those who had to have BTN, they had to drop Comcast or Time Warner or whomever their cable company was completely, and get Directv or Dish.

so for every customer who quit their cable company to get Directv for BTN, said cable company didn't just lose the dollar a month they would have made from BTN, they lost the entire $80 month revenue they got from the cable tv bundle, and sometimes the $40 plus bucks on top they got from internet, since those selling DTV and Dish were partnering with AT&T internet.

BTN was able to leverage not just the revenue from their channel alone, but was able to leverage the entire bundle's $120-$140 monthly revenue, just for it's one channel.

point being, the bundle doesn't just force you to buy all the channels in the bundle, but it also drastically affects how much individual "must have" channels can charge the pay tv company for their one channel, since if the pay tv company doesn't have say BTN, then not only does the pay tv company lose out on the little it makes from BTN, but may lose out on the entire $140 mo it gets from everything, if the subscriber jumps providers to get BTN.

this totally perverts the market and how much one "must have" channel can charge, since that one channel can leverage the entire monthly cable/internet bill for just their one channel.

obviously such "buy everything or nothing" collusion agreements between providers of many different products is illegal everywhere else in business, except pay tv. (which is essentially a utility as is internet, and was once treated as such).

when cable started it was legal in pay tv, because channels with commercials didn't charge for their channel, so the issue was moot for decades..

how it stays legal now that they do is a sordid tale, but hint, Comcast/NBC is now the media arm of the DNC along with CNN/Warner Media currently owned by AT&T, and Fox News is the media arm of the RNC.

and Comcast/NBC and CNN/Warner/AT&T can make or break the candidacy of many to most national office Dems, and Fox News can make or break the candidacy of many national office Pubs.

Comcast/NBC, CNN/Warner Media, and Fox/News Corp, all benefit greatly from the forced bundle that's totally illegal everywhere else in the economy, and always has been, and don't want it changed.

and CBS/Viacom and Disney/ABC/ESPN, the other major tv news outlets, don't want it changed either.
I am glad you mentioned the lack of television for the Bucket game in 1967. I was only 14 and I couldn't understand why ABC would not switch from OSU-Michigan to a much more important game in Bloomington with a Rose Bowl trip on the line.
 
  • Like
Reactions: i'vegotwinners
Your comments, that I'm bothering to answer, are in bold red under the paragraphs.... as for you...

What a chicken shit! You can't back up anything can you... at least I have credentials and first hand knowledge of what I speak... Obviously you don't...

As for the rest of what you posted regarding bundling, the Big Ten Net... all of the bottom parts where you come off as some delusional, paranoid conspiracy theorist.... I don't see what any of that really has to do with this.... Plus, you're so incoherent and rambling that I gave up trying to understand what your point was. The paragraph that I highlighted in Blue... you know, the paragraph that's one extremely long run-on sentence (and, you have more than a few of those)... illustrates my point and why I didn't bother to address you any further.

Okay, most of the facts you stated about the history of the Big Ten Net and the cable contracts are correct but I will tell that when the Big Ten Net was first forming and asked us to submit RFP's we said,... "No thanks." They didn't want to pay anywhere near the going rate we were getting from the other Networks. Most of the other upper-tier program packagers turned down doing games for them as well... and. during the first few years of the Big Ten Net the poor production value showed! Terrible camera work, shaky at best announcing, graphics, timing.. you name it. It's gotten much better in the last few years, but some of games that aren't that desirable... will get the "C" team crews. Regardless of the network, the least desirable teams get the lower lever crews... sorry everyone, but I have to say this because it's true... The WKU vs. IU game is a perfect example.... No matter how you look at there are not enough eyeballs that are going to tune in for them to put any dollars behind it.

If you wanna keep playing go ahead, but please,... try to make sense.

..."but please ..... try to make sense."

- Said everyone, ever, who has tried to read anything typed by the capital-letter-less and paragraph-less tinfoil hat WC wonder.
 
  • Like
Reactions: muubell
I saw the same announcer error about the kick. I thought that was just a horrible announcer error. Maybe the “truck” told them they had the correct replay. If so, they still should have recognized the yard lines were different.
Both you and Tokyo Steve are correct that the second replay shown was not the same replay they first showed, right after the missed attempt. It looked like the first replay was from a mobile cart camera that was looking directly down the line of scrimmage... the second replay where the announcers claimed the call was wrong was probably from the 50 yd camera that then gave it a totally incorrect angle, making the guy look onside.... he was off side. That call would have had to have come from the truck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tokyo Steve
Are the Networks and third party production companies facing the same labor shortages as other industries? If so, is that affecting quality?
 
Both you and Tokyo Steve are correct that the second replay shown was not the same replay they first showed, right after the missed attempt. It looked like the first replay was from a mobile cart camera that was looking directly down the line of scrimmage... the second replay where the announcers claimed the call was wrong was probably from the 50 yd camera that then gave it a totally incorrect angle, making the guy look onside.... he was off side. That call would have had to have come from the truck.
Sounds like a parallax error which is what caused the controversy over IU's good kick in the Pinstripe bowl loss.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Give it a rest
Both you and Tokyo Steve are correct that the second replay shown was not the same replay they first showed, right after the missed attempt. It looked like the first replay was from a mobile cart camera that was looking directly down the line of scrimmage... the second replay where the announcers claimed the call was wrong was probably from the 50 yd camera that then gave it a totally incorrect angle, making the guy look onside.... he was off side. That call would have had to have come from the truck.
For further clarification, my point was that the play they were showing when they said "Indiana got away with one" (Campbell's kick with 9:55 remaining in the 2nd quarter) is not the play when #20 Caleb Oliver was correctly whistled for being off sides (Campbell's kick with 10:01 remaining).
 
  • Like
Reactions: jsenleo
Your comments, that I'm bothering to answer, are in bold red under the paragraphs.... as for you...

What a chicken shit! You can't back up anything can you... at least I have credentials and first hand knowledge of what I speak... Obviously you don't...

As for the rest of what you posted regarding bundling, the Big Ten Net... all of the bottom parts where you come off as some delusional, paranoid conspiracy theorist.... I don't see what any of that really has to do with this.... Plus, you're so incoherent and rambling that I gave up trying to understand what your point was. The paragraph that I highlighted in Blue... you know, the paragraph that's one extremely long run-on sentence (and, you have more than a few of those)... illustrates my point and why I didn't bother to address you any further.

Okay, most of the facts you stated about the history of the Big Ten Net and the cable contracts are correct but I will tell that when the Big Ten Net was first forming and asked us to submit RFP's we said,... "No thanks." They didn't want to pay anywhere near the going rate we were getting from the other Networks. Most of the other upper-tier program packagers turned down doing games for them as well... and. during the first few years of the Big Ten Net the poor production value showed! Terrible camera work, shaky at best announcing, graphics, timing.. you name it. It's gotten much better in the last few years, but some of games that aren't that desirable... get the "C" team crews. Regardless of the network, the least desirable teams get the lower level crews... sorry everyone, but I have to say this because it's true... The WKU vs. IU game is a perfect example.... No matter how you look at there are not enough eyeballs that are going to tune in for them to put any dollars behind it.

If you wanna keep playing go ahead, but please,... try to make sense.

the fact you posted in my quote box in your above post, makes it impossible for me to quote you. (at least i don't don't know how to, if it is possible.

but i'll address you here regarding both your posts.

A), i have zero intention of posting my resume here, or being bullied into doing so, but i assure you my credentials on the crux of what i originally addressed dwarf yours.

if you wish not to believe that, i could care less.

i'm more than happy be judged on what i say.


B), you beat your chest non stop about your "credentials", but while you have some very interesting work experience, zero of it really translates to the main issues i brought up, and is tangential at best.

no knock on your experience which again is very interesting, it just doesn't translate to any real expertise on my main points. (the biggest ones you didn't address at all, because you have zero relevant industry knowledge regarding the 2nd half of my post you quoted, which is a big part of the point i was making.

C), everything i said was effectively correct. not part, not half.

your responses went from trying to parse words, to being flat inaccurate.

D) if you think ch 4 didn't televise IU football back in day like they did basketball, because cable drops were longer and some costs were higher, then you're embarrassing yourself, which you are. (and revenues would have been higher as well).

ch 4 would have loved to televise football as well, and absolutely would have had the resources to do so if allowed.

they didn't, because they weren't allowed to. no other reason.

you obviously haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about, but thought you could bully and BS your way through me, which i don't take well to .

if you wish to argue otherwise, you will only be continuing to be wrong, and digging a deeper hole.

and being the NCAA only allowed the one B10 game a wk, if you want to say it was the B10 who made the call as to what one game was shown, not the NCAA, while i know not the accuracy of that, i also don't care in the slightest, as it's literally totally irrelevant to the debate.

the one game only is the relevant point. not who picks the one game..

and YES, ch 4 and everyone else were literally "banned" from televising the 67 IU-PU game live.

picking a different word to say the same thing is non productive.


and 10 cameras and 3 drones and a blimp and a crane weren't needed.

the 3 camera setup used for bball back in the day would have more than sufficed, and fans would have been thrilled to have that. (as would have ch 4).

E), not that it's of any importance, but to my knowledge the Bob Knight show was ch 4's top rated studio show many yrs.

it was on for a really long time, and if some times it wasn't #1, that couldn't have any less relevance to the discussion at hand.

and btw, i'm referring to only the pre UPN yrs, when 4 was an independent. obviously being top studio show could have changed when 4 affiliated with a network..

F), as for what you say you highlighted in blue, you didn't highlight anything in blue i could find.

but the half of my post you didn't address was an important half. the most important half for me.

it goes to the subject of why one's pay tv bill is way way over priced, and that what's going down with the forced bundle is illegal literally everywhere else in business, and should be illegal here.

and to be precise, all i said about the early BTN was correct.

not part of it. all of it.

that i didn't go deeper into the subject, is because i didn't want to write another whole page.

if you want to keep posting like a dick, when i was anything but and tried to be informative, you might want to pick your battles better.
 
Last edited:
Again, you're another chicken-shit schmoe with nothing to validate your claims...
You can't cite one example, one source, nothing...

Just the fact that I was there and involved.. and you weren't, is enough proof that you're talking out your a**.

You'd dwarf me??? I gave you less than half of my resume.

And, if you're that big and inside then I'd know who you are.

Again, no balls on your part.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT