Never really liked the Wisconsin Badgers (mostly jealous, I admit it), but I have to hand it to Barry Alvarez. UW went through a 30 year period of mediocrity from the 60's through early 90's. Since then, they have been a model of consistency and excellence. Just like their basketball teams under their former coach Bo Ryan, they are fundamentally sound, and don't beat themselves with mistakes. As a 79' IU grad and life long fan, it really frustrates me when I see how schools like Wisconsin, Iowa and Northwestern have built very successful programs. IU should have put its foot on the gas with a commitment to football during the late 80's/early 90's under Mallory (like Iowa did), but I think the AD and admin were content to be an elite basketball school.
Have to hand it to Wisky
- Thread starter bdhman
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Couldn't agree more...even with the jealousy part. If you're old enough to remember when we used to look down on those 3 schools in most sports, it's kinda hard to take the current state of affairs. Somehow, someway, we've gotta climb up. Of course, getting moved to the other division would be a good start in football.
I remember sitting in the stands watching AT destroy UW and I was actually feeling sorry for them. Same for NW. Now...I still cant get my head around that they have both won B10 Championships and we just wallow in mediocrity. Its the BOT you blame. Yeah they should have fired Mallory, started the stadium upgrade, and found the best coach with experience available. We didn't. We got Cam Cameron and more of the same BS. Were still paying for the BOTs indifference. Not sure its not but been forced to make the changes it has...and would go backwards if they could.
It starts with leadership. Wisconsin (Donna Shalala) hired former football All American Pat Richter as AD, and he in turn hired Barry Alvarez (and Dick Bennett). He upgraded facilities and balanced the budget, too, but he knew how to go and find the right people to lead his programs and he managed them well. But she cared enough to find the right guy who could turn a sleepy program into a winning, profitable one, and he cared enough and was good enough to find the right people to make it happen. Experience and expertise are hardly groundbreaking concepts, but it's amazing how many people believe you can achieve success without them.
Success and failure both leave many clues.
IU went on cruise control thinking its basketball program would last forever. It's b-ball program is now a mid-tier Big Ten program most seasons and has been that way for the better part of 20 seasons. Football is trying to jumpstart a program that was left to wither and die back in 1993.
The best part about that Wiscy victory yesterday was sending all the thug wannabees from Miami home schooled and bitchslapped. Those guys played with a cocky NFL type arrogance that had me pissed watching it after two minutes. What a bunch of clowns. Thanks from the entire USA Wiscy!
Pat Richter hired a defensive coordinator with zero college head coaching experience, that couldn’t possibly have been a good choice , could it ?
As a former standout player, Richter was able to to not only see a quality candidate in Alvarez but also rely on the recommendations of his college coaches, Hayden Fry and Lou Holtz. That's what experienced leadership gets you. Of course, his experience also produced a thorough and comprehensive search for the best coach, something any competent athletic director would engage in.
Again, success leaves clues, as I'm sure you would agree.
I wonder why Indiana hired Cam Cameron? Outside of being a QB coach at Michigan, what had he done to get the gig? He certainly did not have an abundance of experience.
The recipe for football success is certainly out there and nobody is hiding it from the people at Indiana. Indiana has a proven defensive coach in Tom Allen. Defense has historically been their bug-a-boo, as they've often fielded a good offense. We will quickly find out if Debord is the man come September. He is going have much, much more experience this time around on the line.
The recipe for football success is certainly out there and nobody is hiding it from the people at Indiana. Indiana has a proven defensive coach in Tom Allen. Defense has historically been their bug-a-boo, as they've often fielded a good offense. We will quickly find out if Debord is the man come September. He is going have much, much more experience this time around on the line.
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And at the end of the day, he took a chance on a DC with ZERO head coaching experience on the collegiate level, as I’m sure you will agree.
Nothing is ever guaranteed, but the experienced leader who conducts a thorough and knowledgeable search exponentially increases the odds of success as opposed to the lightly qualified leader who has zero playing or coaching experience and who conducts no search whatsoever. The former example would be preferred by anyone who values elite results, while the latter requires tremendous good fortune to compensate for the dearth of fundamentals that would otherwise be predictors of success.
Yes, Richter’s “thorough “ search included Don Nehlen and Alvarez, when Nehlen turned him down he took Alvarez, but go ahead keep babbling Ord. Did Glass steal your girlfriend or fire your mother?
Those were the two finalists, but it's certain they considered others. As I said, successful, experienced leaders do things in a way that is predictive of success, while less experienced people try to short circuit the fundamentals, even though that greatly lessens the chance to succeed. Success leaves clues. Failure does, as well. And the results don't lie, as much as some try to ignore them.
Please fill us in on who else was considered. The fact of the matter is, Glass is the AD, Allen is the Head football coach , for now, you need to deal with it. All your whining and crying through multiple personas on this message board gets you nowhere. Your time would be better spent writing letters with all your “wisdom” to the BOT. If the process and Allen are as bad as you insinuate, I’m sure Glass won’t survive and you’ll get your wish.
Wait, what? Are you suggesting that the current BOT was forced to finally start investing in the football program? By whom?
I don’t understand the attitude of pissing and moaning about the current administration trying to correct the errors of the past. You can’t whine about previous administrations not investing and then also whine about the current one actually investing. That literally doesn’t make any sense.
And to be honest, it’s really difficult to take people seriously when they constantly complain about being cheap, considering they don’t even know how much people are being paid. That strength and conditioning thread is embarrassing. I mean, I posted the strength salaries twice, and people still ignored it.
What these programs have in common is they got their guy and stayed the course. I think we have our guy.
You can always tell when someone is losing a debate...it immediately turn it into a name calling bitch fest. Its obvious who the loser is here...isn't it? LOL I don't know who you think your are...but you aint them. If you cant win intellectually...then just shut up.
Exactly what the hell are you talking about ? Please show me where this thread was a “name calling, bitchfest” on my part. Do you honestly believe there are winners and losers on a message board ? LOL.
The poster said he was sure “others” were considered for the UW job, I asked for examples, none were provided. Guess in your eyes that means , I’m the loser of the “debate” ? Odd interpretation.
Then you proceed to tell me to “shut up”, ok internet tough guy, just don’t hold your breath.
You claimed Don Nehlen turned that job down which is categorically untrue. Wouldn't say that makes you a loser or that you should shut up, but you weren't factual.
Yes, technically Nehlen was not offered the job, but as you stated in your post , “those were the two finalists” (Nehlen and Alvarez). The fact is Nehlen didn’t show much interest, wanted time to think, so Richter went with the guy that really seemed to want the job.
None of that was really the basis of the discussion though was it ? It was about the process, you said they “certainly considered others”, yet couldn’t provide any factual evidence of that. The fact is Richter hired a DC with ZERO head coaching experience in college, turned out to be a great hire. Hopefully ours will turn out well also, but neither you, I or the man on the moon has any idea how CTA will turn out. What’s done is done. I encourage those that want to support the program to do so, for those that are anti Glass and CTA , go do something else for awhile. If they are as bad as you say, there will be change, until then all the board personalities in the world won’t change a thing
No, no one knows if Allen will succeed, but the fact that IU didn't conduct a search and left the hiring to someone who has no experience in playing or coaching at any level gives many little confidence that it will. Success leaves clues, and a professional approach nearly always produces better results than an amateurish one. Unfortunately, it's a clear trend that gives many of us concern regarding the leadership of the program.
No problem with having “concern”, but having multiple personnas on a message board just to continue an onslaught of 100% negative and anti IU posts, is well beyond having concerns.
There was nothing negative or unfactual in my posts on this topic, though I'm definitely not a fan of a less than professional approach that produced the firing of Wilson and the hiring of Allen and have a hard time understanding why several fans are supportive of it. Like I said, success leaves clues.
You forgot his going on the pu message board under another persona just to bad mouth IU...
The guy or girl may have once been an IU fan but if he still considers himself one, he or she is certainly one of the type we can do without...
I'm putting it back on Ignore...
Didn't take Ord long to come back with his eighth or ninth new name. His complete butthurt meltdown on GBI was a thing of beauty. Wish he would have stayed there where he was adored but alas, he is back plagerizing thoughts for this board.
Such a transplant hypocrite,
You have no idea what the approach was in the firing of Wilson and the hiring of Allen, none. I’m supportive of it because I think CTA will be a great coach for IU and a superior representative of IU. Only time will tell .
And just perhaps you do not know of what you speak. I was a business owner in Btown for decades...the BOT was very well known by FB supporters close to the school. A good friend was the son of a board member. Todays BOT is not the one of 30 or 20 years ago. But to think that IU upper admin is in love with sports at all is very naïve. Yeah...its a research school...sports has been tolerated only. Think what you want. When you know nothing, its easy to think anything.
Exactly. We go through the motions of having an athletics department. Winning is not demanded. Glass can do whatever he wants as long as there are no scandals.
No, he is indeed aware of how the firing process worked because I have described it to him under at a least three of his usernames.
I described it accurately, factually and using examples of documentation and direct experience of how the Perfaomance Management process works in a large and publicly-funded institution.
The fact that he either is incapable or unwilling to accept it, is his problem.
Any suggestion that Glass and the IU administration are merely "tolerating" athletics is utterly ridiculous and patently absurd.
Every major college administration fully understands the value of college sports, particularly football. Glass has publicly articulated this several times, he secured one of the biggest apparel contracts (adidas) in all of college sports, and he's poured tens of millions of dollars into facilities over the last several years.
Study after study have demonstrated that successful college sports programs (particularly football) increase alumni donations, increase the number and quality of applicants to the school, reduce acceptance rates, raise average SAT scores of accepted students, and enhance the school's academic reputation. So, yeah, even "research" schools benefit from success on the gridiron and hardwood.
Argue, if you want, that Glass isn't getting the job done. But to argue that he and the administration are simply "tolerating" sports is just nuts.
Holy freakin spin show!!! Nearly every school in the B1G either is currently or has up graded or added athletic facilities. It’s not hard to spend TV right money. Our athletic apparel deal isn’t close (not even same ball park) as what Michigan and Ohio St are getting. He’s doing exactly what EVERY AD in the B1G is doing.
The FB and BB hires are squarely on him and his job should and will ride with the success or lack of. All I hear is “give him time” AD, FB and BB.... I’m sick of waiting!! But hey, Swimming, soccer and Baseball are top B1G programs. Great job!!
I was responding to the inane suggestion that athletics is "tolerated only" at IU, and explaining why that's not the case.
WIth respect to the apparel contract, as of year end 2016 our deal was #13 (in value) nationally. Every school in the top 13 (except one) is a football power, making it even more remarkable that IU was able to pull this off. This was a very big deal that most of the other conference schools were not able to accomplish.
It's usually a good idea to read and actually comprehend what someone else has written before flying off the handle in response to it.
Not up to par? Cook Hall is comparable to top practice facilities. And in terms of Assembly Hall, its certainly more modern than Allen Fieldhouse or Cameron Indoor.
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