Has the economy changed

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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Yes, but that was kind of my argument about what rate is used. Another thing that impacts the available worker pool is disability payments. There are some people who are capable of working but do not because that benefit is more lucrative.

The numbers are baked a bit by what is considered the available workforce. These people did not suddenly disappear after a year. They were available to fill the jobs just one year ago...
Rate has nothing to do with it. We're just talking about the actual number of people drawing benefits. There's no baking going on.
 

IUCrazy2

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Rate has nothing to do with it. We're just talking about the actual number of people drawing benefits. There's no baking going on.
Where did they all go though? I think there absolutely is some baking going on based on the fact that with the lax rules for the past year that many people stopped looking for work. They were literally paid to stay home. The U3 measures people who are jobless but actively seeking employment. Right now, those people don't have to look and still get an additional benefit on top of the normal unemployment benefit they would receive.

The people filling those jobs did not just suddenly disappear over the last year. They just don't want to work when they can get paid $15.25 (roughly) an hour to stay home. Those people will reappear and jobs will fill back up rather quickly as soon as the government turns off the (now unneccesary) free money spigot.
 

Marvin the Martian

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Where did they all go though? I think there absolutely is some baking going on based on the fact that with the lax rules for the past year that many people stopped looking for work. They were literally paid to stay home. The U3 measures people who are jobless but actively seeking employment. Right now, those people don't have to look and still get an additional benefit on top of the normal unemployment benefit they would receive.

The people filling those jobs did not just suddenly disappear over the last year. They just don't want to work when they can get paid $15.25 (roughly) an hour to stay home. Those people will reappear and jobs will fill back up rather quickly as soon as the government turns off the (now unneccesary) free money spigot.

The story I linked had the quote below. Would that not count all unemployed collecting benefits whether looking or not:

As of the end of April, in Northeast Indiana there are 12,000 open jobs and only 3400 people collecting unemployment.
 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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Where did they all go though? I think there absolutely is some baking going on based on the fact that with the lax rules for the past year that many people stopped looking for work. They were literally paid to stay home. The U3 measures people who are jobless but actively seeking employment. Right now, those people don't have to look and still get an additional benefit on top of the normal unemployment benefit they would receive.

The people filling those jobs did not just suddenly disappear over the last year. They just don't want to work when they can get paid $15.25 (roughly) an hour to stay home. Those people will reappear and jobs will fill back up rather quickly as soon as the government turns off the (now unneccesary) free money spigot.
You are not grasping the key point. They are not collecting benefits. If everyone collecting was given a job tomorrow, most of the jobs would still be unfilled.

Whatever is keeping most of them out of the job market, it ain't free money.
 

HoosierJimbo89

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Everyone had some sort of idea about what was at the root of the shortage and what might be done to solve it, but not a single one suggested paying better wages and providing better benefits.
I think it may be that simple. The labor market is demanding higher wages and better conditions for some jobs, and employers aren't willing to pay them. I suspect if higher wages and better conditions were being offered, there would be more interest. It works both ways, and I'm guessing some employers don't like admitting it.

I also think that Covid has been a big epiphany for many in their lives, especially work/economy. People had nothing but time to evaluate their lives, and I'm guessing many have decided they don't want to go back to certain jobs/ways of life and have pursued greener pastures. If you see a better looking woman and you are tired of the old ball and chain that's gotten fat and cranky over the years, the gears in your mind at least start turning.
 

UncleMark

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I think it may be that simple. The labor market is demanding higher wages and better conditions for some jobs, and employers aren't willing to pay them. I suspect if higher wages and better conditions were being offered, there would be more interest. It works both ways, and I'm guessing some employers don't like admitting it.

I dunno. I think maybe economics is broken. Back to Marvin's original question, why haven't we seen rampant inflation with the deficits and debt we've had for the last twenty years? And with the thousands of apartments added, why aren't rents coming down in Bloomington?
 

IUJIM

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I dunno. I think maybe economics is broken. Back to Marvin's original question, why haven't we seen rampant inflation with the deficits and debt we've had for the last twenty years? And with the thousands of apartments added, why aren't rents coming down in Bloomington?
Productivity. 20 years ago a 65 inch flat screen was $10,000. Today it is $1000, or less.
 

Cortez88

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And today Americans want high wages for shit jobs and many businesses can only stay viable with low wages. Half of business is small business. The aoc’s of the world think every employer is google
There’s definitely a push pull on wages. Companies have largely gained profitability over the years. A key part of that for some companies has been cheap labor. There’s an attitude that companies are simply entitled to cheap labor. Maybe we are seeing some changes there.
 

mcmurtry66

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There’s definitely a push pull on wages. Companies have largely gained profitability over the years. A key part of that for some companies has been cheap labor. There’s an attitude that companies are simply entitled to cheap labor. Maybe we are seeing some changes there.
Cheap is relative. We raise min wage to $15 an hour I can get the same labor overseas for $1.87. What’s more the companies we compete with here are all overseas. They would never pay $15. Adidas. Puma. None of them. So how do we remain competitive when all the competition pays nothing in wages in so many industries.

And the one size fits all approach to wages is no good. Seattle amazon warehouse gig is difft than a licking mo cardboard manufacturer.

Bc we’re only talking about low end shit jobs. There will be unintended consequences from the employer’s perspective - fold shop; go overseas. Whatever. The biz model for many companies relies on low wages. Hell even Uber. Uber isn’t built to contemplate FLSA ot.

It’s tough. Things have gotten expensive and people need to live. Instead of Fing with businesses I’d rather see UBI
 
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larsIU

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There’s definitely a push pull on wages. Companies have largely gained profitability over the years. A key part of that for some companies has been cheap labor. There’s an attitude that companies are simply entitled to cheap labor. Maybe we are seeing some changes there.
So what are the three main expenses for a company producing a good? Labor, materials/components, location. When at least two of those can be in Pakistan, SE Asia or Central America and be a fraction of the cost it's no surprise labor and manufacturing have moved. The only way to stem this would be tariffs/taxes on those goods. That seems unlikely.

The US has a higher cost of living so wages will be higher. Real estate is more expensive in the US as compared to many other locations in the world. I think we're fighting a losing battle. I tend to agree with MCM that just blanketing a 15/hr min wage across the US would be disastrous for companies (and therefore workers) in many locations in the US. Any unskilled manufacturing labor would be subject to exportation to another country. And, again, unless we are willing to put tariffs on clothing and other basic goods, there's nothing we can do to stop it.
 

Cortez88

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I agree with you both. That’s a consequence of globalization. We have access to cheap labor (and goods) from overseas. I don’t think you can put that toothpaste back into the tube. There will not be a textiles industry in North Carolina again. That industry bounces around overseas to the cheapest bidder.
 
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CO. Hoosier

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Cheap is relative. We raise min wage to $15 an hour I can get the same labor overseas for $1.87. What’s more the companies we compete with here are all overseas. They would never pay $15. Adidas. Puma. None of them. So how do we remain competitive when all the competition pays nothing in wages in so many industries.

And the one size fits all approach to wages is no good. Seattle amazon warehouse gig is difft than a licking mo cardboard manufacturer.

Bc we’re only talking about low end shit jobs. There will be unintended consequences from the employer’s perspective - fold shop; go overseas. Whatever. The biz model for many companies relies on low wages. Hell even Uber. Uber isn’t built to contemplate FLSA ot.

It’s tough. Things have gotten expensive and people need to live. Instead of Fing with businesses I’d rather see UBI
All the jobs related to extraction and harvesting industries have to be where the extracting and harvesting happens. Through our insane levels of ignorance and arrogance we regulate those industries out of existence here while demanding and consuming more of the production of both.
 
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CO. Hoosier

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All the jobs related to extraction and harvesting industries have to be where the extracting and harvesting happens. Through our insane levels of ignorance and arrogance we regulate those industries out of existence here while demanding and consuming more of the production of both.
As I was saying. . .

Biden cancels mining for EV’s after promising he would not. Ignorant by subordinating the human benefits of good jobs to ideology and arrogant by believing we are too good for dirty jobs.
 
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