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Harrison Butker, a kicker, said this at a commencement at some Catholic school this weekend:

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“The bad policies and poor leadership have negatively impacted major life issues. Things like abortion, IVF, surrogacy, euthanasia, as well as a growing support for the degenerate cultural values and media all stem from pervasiveness of disorder.”


I have 3 daughters thanks to IVF. Butker would be fighting me if he uttered those words in my presence.

But he's soooo full of the Holy Spirit, ain't he?
 
“The bad policies and poor leadership have negatively impacted major life issues. Things like abortion, IVF, surrogacy, euthanasia, as well as a growing support for the degenerate cultural values and media all stem from pervasiveness of disorder.”


I have 3 daughters thanks to IVF. Butker would be fighting me if he uttered those words in my presence.

But he's soooo full of the Holy Spirit, ain't he?

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“The bad policies and poor leadership have negatively impacted major life issues. Things like abortion, IVF, surrogacy, euthanasia, as well as a growing support for the degenerate cultural values and media all stem from pervasiveness of disorder.”


I have 3 daughters thanks to IVF. Butker would be fighting me if he uttered those words in my presence.

But he's soooo full of the Holy Spirit, ain't he?
Good morning, Drive-by. The Chiefs are sending an autographed football.
 
“The bad policies and poor leadership have negatively impacted major life issues. Things like abortion, IVF, surrogacy, euthanasia, as well as a growing support for the degenerate cultural values and media all stem from pervasiveness of disorder.”


I have 3 daughters thanks to IVF. Butker would be fighting me if he uttered those words in my presence.

But he's soooo full of the Holy Spirit, ain't he?
You’d get your ass beat too..
 
“The bad policies and poor leadership have negatively impacted major life issues. Things like abortion, IVF, surrogacy, euthanasia, as well as a growing support for the degenerate cultural values and media all stem from pervasiveness of disorder.”


I have 3 daughters thanks to IVF. Butker would be fighting me if he uttered those words in my presence.

But he's soooo full of the Holy Spirit, ain't he?
Just because someone can; throw, hit, pitch, catch, head or (in this case) kick a ball does not make them: good, decent, normal, nice, pleasant or smart.
 
How in holy hell do you lump IVF and surrogate parenting in with euthanasia and abortion?

WTF?
 
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I tend to agree with this.

I would point out though that this guy was invited to give a commencement, in the offseason, in no way connected to the Kansas City Chiefs.

He’s not exactly Colin Kapernick on the sideline kneeling during the anthem.
Yeah. I agree with everything he expressed pretty much. Maybe aside from the IVF stuff. This was in his personal capacity at a Catholic college where he essentially parroted back Catholic doctrine. People are mad because he doesn’t pick out and embrace aspects of his Catholicism a la carte like our President.

Not the same as Kaepernick being a spoiled brat and hijacking his work place.
 
“The bad policies and poor leadership have negatively impacted major life issues. Things like abortion, IVF, surrogacy, euthanasia, as well as a growing support for the degenerate cultural values and media all stem from pervasiveness of disorder.”


I have 3 daughters thanks to IVF. Butker would be fighting me if he uttered those words in my presence.

But he's soooo full of the Holy Spirit, ain't he?
I've never figured out why IVF is thrown in with abortion and euthanasia.

If you're going to be against IVF because it's not 'natural', then you should be against any surgery or medical procedure not found in nature.
 
if you live your life zealously through religion, you often cant see the big picture.
That's bullshit.

I know plenty of people who have live zealously through religion and were fine people.

There are zealots and there is crazy. They can be different, unless you just dismiss all religion.
 
I've never figured out why IVF is thrown in with abortion and euthanasia.

If you're going to be against IVF because it's not 'natural', then you should be against any surgery or medical procedure not found in nature.
You don’t understand the objection to IVF?

It destroys (kills) embryos. Pretty easy to see why someone would be opposed if they’re pro life from the point of conception.
 
That's bullshit.

I know plenty of people who have live zealously through religion and were fine people.

There are zealots and there is crazy. They can be different, unless you just dismiss all religion.
JDB used the term "often". Often does not equal always...
 
JDB used the term "often". Often does not equal always...
I don't think it's often. It was a knock against people who live their life according to religion, and I think that's wrong.
 
I've never figured out why IVF is thrown in with abortion and euthanasia.

If you're going to be against IVF because it's not 'natural', then you should be against any surgery or medical procedure not found in nature.

 
You don’t understand the objection to IVF?

It destroys (kills) embryos. Pretty easy to see why someone would be opposed if they’re pro life from the point of conception.
PS I read through the thread and saw the speaker is Catholic. I can't criticize him for adhering to the church doctrine. But I disagree with it.
 
How in holy hell do you lump IVF and surrogate parenting in with euthanasia and abortion?

WTF?

IVF and surrogacy are both condemned as immoral by the Catholic Church.

Pope Francis’ recent call to ban surrogacy caught many by surprise, particularly due to its vehemence.

“I deem deplorable the practice of so-called surrogate motherhood,” the Pope said during a formal speech to foreign ambassadors Jan. 8, “which represents a grave violation of the dignity of the woman and the child, based on the exploitation … of the mother’s material needs.”



Of course, the great majority of Catholics pay about as much attention to this as they do church teaching on birth control.
 
Yeah. I agree with everything he expressed pretty much. Maybe aside from the IVF stuff. This was in his personal capacity at a Catholic college where he essentially parroted back Catholic doctrine. People are mad because he doesn’t pick out and embrace aspects of his Catholicism a la carte like our President.

Not the same as Kaepernick being a spoiled brat and hijacking his work place.
Well of course you do!!
 
IVF and surrogacy are both condemned as immoral by the Catholic Church.

Pope Francis’ recent call to ban surrogacy caught many by surprise, particularly due to its vehemence.

“I deem deplorable the practice of so-called surrogate motherhood,” the Pope said during a formal speech to foreign ambassadors Jan. 8, “which represents a grave violation of the dignity of the woman and the child, based on the exploitation … of the mother’s material needs.”



Of course, the great majority of Catholics pay about as much attention to this as they do church teaching on birth control.
I’m surprised coming from this particular pope.
 
I've never figured out why IVF is thrown in with abortion and euthanasia.

If you're going to be against IVF because it's not 'natural', then you should be against any surgery or medical procedure not found in nature.
It is actually a fairly logical position if you have the belief that personhood begins at conception. I believe they take issue with how the unused fertilized eggs are often dealt with along with the "unnaturalness" of it.
 
It is actually a fairly logical position if you have the belief that personhood begins at conception. I believe they take issue with how the unused fertilized eggs are often dealt with along with the "unnaturalness" of it.
Yeah, I posted that before I read he was Catholic.

I hope it's not a sin, because that's how my daughter got here. And some embryos didn't take, so.....

I don't know if a day old embryo has a soul or not. I sort of doubt it, since it doesn't have a brain.
 
“The bad policies and poor leadership have negatively impacted major life issues. Things like abortion, IVF, surrogacy, euthanasia, as well as a growing support for the degenerate cultural values and media all stem from pervasiveness of disorder.”


I have 3 daughters thanks to IVF. Butker would be fighting me if he uttered those words in my presence.

But he's soooo full of the Holy Spirit, ain't he?
You have any problem with this idiot?
 
I thought the phrasing he used came off a little stupid, making it sound like 'a women's place is in the home', which as I heard clips on the radio I don't think that's what he said. He seemed to say don't dismiss it, because you may be happier. Someone wrote that he said something similar when he talked about men chasing careers.

I don't agree with much of the catholic doctrine (buffet-style Lutheran here) but don't fault him for sticking to it. I sort of admire him for that much.

Dude gave his opinion. Big whoop. I don't get the angst.

I have five sisters who have enjoyed their successful professional careers for the most part. And would scoff at Butker. But surely him giving his views would not affect theirs or their daughters lives. One sister did give up a good financial career her degree from IU was in, to stay home with the kids. But they were well enough off to do so, and her husband was Catholic and eventually she converted from Lutheran, now that I recall that part. Her and husband were both very liberal, 100% dem all the way though, probably would've laughed at Butker. So maybe even though he seemed very devout, maybe some of the teachings they disagreed with.

Oh, and I just realized his comments were at commencement for a CATHOLIC school? So what was his talk supposed to be on, priests not diddling little boys? (That would be more appropriate at Penn State maybe.)
 
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“The bad policies and poor leadership have negatively impacted major life issues. Things like abortion, IVF, surrogacy, euthanasia, as well as a growing support for the degenerate cultural values and media all stem from pervasiveness of disorder.”


I have 3 daughters thanks to IVF. Butker would be fighting me if he uttered those words in my presence.

But he's soooo full of the Holy Spirit, ain't he?
If someone's beliefs lead you to fighting, you have issues of your own. I hope you were not serious.
 
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I thought the phrasing he used came off a little stupid, making it sound like 'a women's place is in the home', which as I heard clips on the radio I don't think that's what he said. He seemed to say don't dismiss it, because you may be happier. Someone wrote that he said something similar when he talked about men chasing careers.

I don't agree with much of the catholic doctrine (buffet-style Lutheran here) but don't fault him for sticking to it. I sort of admire him for that much.

Dude gave his opinion. Big whoop. I don't get the angst.

I have five sisters who have enjoyed their successful professional careers for the most part. And would scoff at Butker. But surely him giving his views would not affect theirs or their daughters lives. One sister did give up a good financial career her degree from IU was in, to stay home with the kids. But they were well enough off to do so, and her husband was Catholic and eventually she converted from Lutheran, now that I recall that part. Her and husband were both very liberal, 100% dem all the way though, probably would've laughed at Butker. So maybe even though he seemed very devout, maybe some of the teachings they disagreed with.

Oh, and I just realized his comments were at commencement for a CATHOLIC school? So what was his talk supposed to be on, priests not diddling little boys? (That would be more appropriate at Penn State maybe.)
There is a change.org petition with 150,000 signatures DEMANDING that the Chiefs cut this dude.

Because he made some comments at a catholic graduation ceremony.

People are f*****g RIDICULOUS.
 
Voluntary surrogate birth would seem to me to be one of the kindest, most unselfish, and wonderful things any human can do for another. I just don't see the downside, unless there is coercion involved somehow , in other societies
 
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Voluntary surrogate birth would seem to me to be one of the kindest, most unselfish, and wonderful things any human can do for another. I just don't see the downside, unless there is coercion involved somehow , in other societies
? What's so great about it?

Not trolling, I'd actually want to know? Surrogate births have always seemed maybe a bit selfish to me.

And you don't see any downside? I could see a few. Even possibly psychological to the child. (Of which I know nothing of course, just saying maybe.)
 
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Based on nothing more than a comment by an online twit who made a comment about him hooking up with a male cheerleader in college, it's all over social media. That's really dirty.

It’s crazy how much traditional values trigger some people.
 
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