Give me your top 5 all-time IU QBs
- Thread starter KBikoff
- Start date
Randle El was the trend sender...Clifford was a bit before my time as a full-time IU fan, but deserves ranked...
Lewis deserves mention (wished he would have ended better). I wished Roberson would have stayed. I'll put Schnell because he helped get the Mallory bowl run going.
Lewis deserves mention (wished he would have ended better). I wished Roberson would have stayed. I'll put Schnell because he helped get the Mallory bowl run going.
Schnell (last IU QB to beat OSU), Gonzo, Clifford, Green, Randle-El (should have been an H-back).
All of those are good lists. Same candidates. Chappell's overall numbers were better than most because of the number of throws he made, but I'm most impressed by his career and single-season completion percentage records. That has nothing to do with style of offense. That's about skill and getting the ball to receivers in a place they can catch it. Ben did just that. Great receivers, sure, but awfully good QB, too.
Ken, I'm getting up there in years and the memory is fading fast but I do vaguely remember Ben Chappell. Can you remind me, please, when he played and who were his receivers? My top QB list would probably be the same as most ... Harry Gonso, Trent Green, Babe, Randel El, and Tre Roberson (if he had stayed at IU)
Not Ken, but Chappell threw to Doss, Belcher, and Turner I believe and not much of a running game (maybe Willis one year?). He was a solid QB imo, but not in the top 5. Probably top 10. Unfortunately for him, he played on some bad teams.
I also like Tre, but he left too early and hosed us. He could have been a stud and we would have gone bowling if he stayed.
The interesting thing with Chappell is that you never thought, "If only he were better, IU could go someplace." He was never the problem. It was defense every year. During Chappell's four years, IU gave up an average of 31.7 points a game while scoring 25.8 a game, and like someone said, the running game was suspect throughout his career save for the Darius Willis season.
Remember to keep Gonso in context, too. He completed less than 50 percent of his passes in 1967 and threw one more TD (9) than interceptions (8). But he also was a solid runner.
Remember to keep Gonso in context, too. He completed less than 50 percent of his passes in 1967 and threw one more TD (9) than interceptions (8). But he also was a solid runner.
Randle-El is the gold standard, but Harry Gonso has to be included in top 5 -- he was a leader and guided IU to its only Rose Bowl appearance. Just a remarkable year (1967-68) for those of us in Bloomington. He was an academic All-American who was a sensational high school swimmer and diver. I thought these stats were interesting: in his three season as IU QB (freshmen I think were not eligible when he played), Gonso threw for 32 TD passes on 531 career attempts. Randle El threw for 42 -- with 1,060 attempts; Bradley 35 with 1,023. Gonso likely can be ranked as one of IU football's top leaders. I believe he was an IU trustee for a time. Please toss Tim Clifford (1979 first team All American who led IU to its first-ever bowl victory) in the mix along with Schnell, Green, Bradley and Laufenberg.
Ken I see where your going, and I dont care if he holds a crap load of records at IU but he is not in my top five. Top 10, yes, but not top 5. I am looking at more than just stats. Is he a leader? Does he take his team on his shoulders and win a game. These are the traits that I am looking at for the top 5 QBs at IU. No way a QB that is responsible for 5 wins at IU is in my top 5 list. You got to look beyond the stats. Sorry Ken and no offense to Ben, just the way it is.
i agree regarding Gonso.
unless you were there at the time and watched the games, you don't know the impact he had.
and there are no stats that show how he ran the option, other than wins.
a lot of the option pitches were much more edge of your seat experiences, than a lot of the throws.
i agree that Ben is under rated. very good thrower.
i can't say top 5, because i can't agree with myself on a top 5.
i notice no old school guys listed pre Gonso, and that's because just not many here who were old enough to judge pre 1950.
i'v been watching since IU moved into the current stadium.
Gonso, Green, are ARE, are the 3 that stand out for me.
but i'm no expert, and great QBs on poorer teams will probably get over looked, as well as good throwers who couldn't run as well, because they were less spectacular.
i can't say top 5, because i can't agree with myself on a top 5.
i notice no old school guys listed pre Gonso, and that's because just not many here who were old enough to judge pre 1950.
i'v been watching since IU moved into the current stadium.
Gonso, Green, are ARE, are the 3 that stand out for me.
but i'm no expert, and great QBs on poorer teams will probably get over looked, as well as good throwers who couldn't run as well, because they were less spectacular.
Gonso - Led a dynamic team. I was there his Soph and Jr years. He was a terrific leader. The couple of games I saw his Sr. year I felt he was not as daring as far as going for extra yardage. OK, maybe smarter, just not as daring. Another poster said he had only 9 TD passes in 67. Surprises me as Jade had 10 TDs, and I am guessing Gage and Stollberg had a few. Does that mean Iso threw the others?
The other OBs would be Clifford, Green, Randle-El, and Chappel.
Hard to keep Scnell out of the top 5. Not sure why all the love for Laufenberg? His name?
That's all fair enough. Nothing wrong with him being in the top 10, and it's always nice to have the discussion. For me, especially when it comes to IU football, I don't look at wins as a measure because the field isn't level. IU's defense has been awful for so long, and there's only so much a quarterback can do. In Ben's case, IU's defense gave up at least 350 point in each of his three main seasons as starter, and in two of those they gave up 400-plus points. That's one of the reasons he had to throw so much, but it also makes it tough to win games. That's why I discount wins so much at IU.
My lifetime only:
Best Winner/Leader - Schnell
Most Athletic - Lewis/Randle-El
Can't really rank the others - Green, Bradley, Clifford seem like the same guy.
The "modern" guys - Coffman, Nate, Tre, Chappell - all incredibly accurate compared to the 80's guys.
But if I was putting a team together, and the QB had great runners, catchers and blockers, I think I'd pick Kellen Lewis to QB them, and I'd put Randle-El in there as a slot receiver and tailback.
Lewis had the best combo of arm and speed ever.
I was constantly amazed at how hard, far and accurate he threw with those skinny arms, and how fast he was.
He only played in 34 games, and his numbers were top of the charts.
Give him the 14-15 games he missed as a junior/senior and he would have broken every record we had.
I find it interesting that Trent is constantly getting mentioned in the Top 5. Didn't he get booed at times while here?
Sadly, yes.
On Senior Day.
Walking with his parents.
Same Illuminati post on here, usually on and after game days, sharing their "wisdom."
After booing an NFL QB, 2 time Pro Bowler, winner of a Super Bowl ring.
And probably the same folks who booed Sean Kline in his first game back after knee surgery for the basketball team.
(Sometimes, when yer at a game, ya just want to punch a fella, hard, in the face.)
Good observation about Kellen and I very much agree with you. He was a favorite of mine and it dismays me to this very day.
I found Kellen to be a great guy to talk to when he was here. He was always honest and open with me. I'm working to find out more about him now to talk to him about his life. I'll keep you updated.
I can't 100% agree. I don't think we'd have beaten NC State even with ARE at QB.
The story I always heard was ARE was going pro if Cam played him at QB again his senior year - the guys in his ear were telling him he "needed' to play receiver/returner or go "make the league." At the same time, folks were saying "why out-recruit Ohio State for Tommy Jones and not play him?" So Cam agreed to move ARE to WR and start Jones. It lasted slightly more than one half of one game. Jones was 18-31, with 1 TD, but Philip Rivers went 22-33 and 3 TD's. ARE had 4 catches for 30 yards and 7 rushes for 37 yards. He moved back to QB and went 1-2. Jones never played again, but Gibran Hamdan found the field against Michigan State later in the year.
The next week we were supposed to play Kentucky, but it was postponed after 9/11.
The "bad" loss was the "home opener" Utah game the next week.
Missed an extra point and a FG and lost by 2.
Here's another interesting fact on that NC State game - Kris Dielman caught 3 passes, including a TD. He was a TE then.
He had a bad Defense, but you can't say Ben was effective all the time against every team. There is more to being a QB than just completion percentage. Primarily, it's about leadership. It's about someone making good things happen for your team, bad Defense or not.
I never had the pleasure of seeing Gonso, but I listened on the radio, and he had it. Tim Clifford had it. Trent Green had it. Randle El was a great QB, but he was a 'system' QB. He was great in that system, but he just wasn't a traditional QB. Schnell had it.
Now when are you going to start a list of top RBs, so I can talk about my favorite IU FB player of all time - Mike Harkrader. I'd love for you to do a story on him. 4th string true freshman who came in about the 3rd game and still gained 1,000 yards - only the 2nd Big Ten Freshman to do so (Alan Ameche being the first).
I'm glad I don't have to rank them, so I'll list them in alphabetical order: Clifford, Gonso, Raimondi, Randle El, Schnell.
I always the ARE should have stayed at slot receiver. Many more options in the play book. Both Jones and Gibron were quality QBs, but never got the chance. ARE was a special player. Cam was not the worst coach we have ever had. He just did not build the defensive side of the team to match the offense b
I see it as (in no particular order) Randel-El, Gonso, Clifford, Ben Chappell, Trent Green.
Vern Huffman: IU's first All American Quarterback. Only Hoosier All American in football & basketball
Randle El
Dave Schnell
Trent Green
Ben Raimondi: Second team All American quarterback of 1945 team
Should mention Bob Hoernschemeyer in1943
Randle El
Dave Schnell
Trent Green
Ben Raimondi: Second team All American quarterback of 1945 team
Should mention Bob Hoernschemeyer in1943
Don't think Cam is close to being the worst coach IU has ever had. He took over a really bad situation (1-15 in the Big Ten the two years prior to his arrival). If he had the benefit of the non-conference schedule that some of his successors had he would have gone to several bowl games. His last team was quite good by the end of the year. The athletic department support was minimal during his tenure as Doninger couldn't have cared less about football. Cam was also hired when he was only in his mid-30s. I thought he got a lot better during his tenure, and made a lot of mistakes early in his tenure. As for Randle El, he wasn't coming back if he wasn't given the opportunity to play WR, although it was strange because deep down he didn't want to stop playing QB.
I think you nailed it, but as long as you mentioned more than 5, you should add Gonso to the mix. An excellent and extremely intelligent QB who could run and pass; a tremendous field general; led his team to the Rose Bowl and I believe he called his own plays.
You raise a GREAT point. "Back in the day" QB's called their own plays. Paul Brown and Tom Landry were early guys who used subs to call/send in plays, but even in the mid 70's most college and pro QB's still called their plays.
Totally agree with Gonso. I am part of the "Punt-John-Punt" generation and enjoyed the Cardiac Kids". I would also like to see another Bucket game like 1967 when both teams were in the Top Ten. It would be great to have ESPN Game Day on Campus for such an event.
