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mcmurtry66

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The risk of a bad outcome with Covid far far exceeds any bad outcome from the vaccine. The biggest risk from getting the vaccine is the chance of a car wreck on the way to to vaccination site.
today. all of this stuff comes out way later. and i too agree that it's unlikely but the history of multidistrict litg with all of these companies is we find out ten years later what dirty pool took place.

if i'm a fat old diabetic i'm racing to walgreens to get it. if i'm a 25 year old with 4 percent body fat i'm not; other than for altruistic reasons
 

mcmurtry66

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LOL. So now it's all about the feelz?
in fla of 9 mil vaccinated only 7 percent are black. we aren't reaching herd immunity. if you want it get it to protect yourself. great. if you don't; don't. the people who want to be protected should do it. otherwise i echo aloha; i don't care. i also don't care what businesses do. if they want to restrict employees/customers to those who have been vaccinated i'm okay with that too
 

Aloha Hoosier

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Yeah, except there's no real way to enforce it. As much as I think there should be.
I know they can be forged and will be by some (not all), but we have the vaccination cards. Show those most will be real and a few won't be and I personally don't care about the fake ones. When I go to the Indy 500 this year I won't care who there is vaccinated and who isn't. I'm good.
 

Marvin the Martian

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I know they can be forged and will be by some (not all), but we have the vaccination cards. Show those most will be real and a few won't be and I personally don't care about the fake ones. When I go to the Indy 500 this year I won't care who there is vaccinated and who isn't. I'm good.
Those cards are an example of a failure, too big to easily fit in a wallet without folding. Within a year they will be unreadable.
 

Marvin the Martian

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There are still groups that have problems. Transplant patients and others whose immune systems are compromised. The vaccination appears not to generate a strong enough response.

So what do we do for these people? Tell them "great, you can sit in your homes all day so the rest of us can have fun"? That's why vaccinations for those that can are important, so we can all enjoy life. If that's shaming people, so be it. They should get vaccinated so everyone can come out and live their lives.
 

mcmurtry66

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There are still groups that have problems. Transplant patients and others whose immune systems are compromised. The vaccination appears not to generate a strong enough response.

So what do we do for these people? Tell them "great, you can sit in your homes all day so the rest of us can have fun"? That's why vaccinations for those that can are important, so we can all enjoy life. If that's shaming people, so be it. They should get vaccinated so everyone can come out and live their lives.
Agreed. We all need to do it for altruistic reasons
 
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bawlmer

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There are still groups that have problems. Transplant patients and others whose immune systems are compromised. The vaccination appears not to generate a strong enough response.

So what do we do for these people? Tell them "great, you can sit in your homes all day so the rest of us can have fun"? That's why vaccinations for those that can are important, so we can all enjoy life. If that's shaming people, so be it. They should get vaccinated so everyone can come out and live their lives.
It's not going away and we'll probably have more variants thanks to the unvaccinated. Sadly, I don't know that there is any good answer for those who don't benefit from vaccination.

But once we reached the point where everyone who wants to be vaccinated is vaccinated, I don't really think there is much else we can do on the policy side.

Maybe publicizing the hospitalization and death rates by vaccinated vs unvaccinated will help.
 

Aloha Hoosier

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Public health.
Those at risk need to get vaccinated, stay isolated or take their chances. Those are their choices. Healthy people are at very little risk, vaccinated or not. Those at risk should take precautions - better yet they should get vaccinated. I'd prefer all people get vaccinated, but at this point I see little reason to care about those that aren't. They're making their own choices. The one reason that I can think of is that as the virus gets passed around among the unvaccinated maybe it will mutate to a version which the vaccines don't work against. I'm guessing it will be treated like the flu in coming years and we'll probably have a different variant of COVID vaccine every year or so.
 

Marvin the Martian

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It's not going away and we'll probably have more variants thanks to the unvaccinated. Sadly, I don't know that there is any good answer for those who don't benefit from vaccination.

But once we reached the point where everyone who wants to be vaccinated is vaccinated, I don't really think there is much else we can do on the policy side.

Maybe publicizing the hospitalization and death rates by vaccinated vs unvaccinated will help.
In The Premonition, one of the ideas was to have an executive order to waive HIPAA and announce who infects whom. The idea being to shame people into behavior, or they will go down as a modern "Bloody Mary". It obviously wasn't used and I'm not even touting it but is an interesting idea. Would people change their behavior if they knew they would not be shielded by anonymity?

Frankly I think the passport idea works for me. We won't do it, but if you want to go to a sporting event, show proof. You want to go to a movie, show proof. You want to go to a bar, show proof.

The book points out that vaccine rates in this country are only as high as they are because schools require them. Vaccines not required, like HPV, have rates close to what it looks like COVID will have. For whatever reason, people don't want vaccines. HPV has been out for a while, it went through normal vetting. Yet about 40-50% aren't getting it.
 

mcmurtry66

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In The Premonition, one of the ideas was to have an executive order to waive HIPAA and announce who infects whom. The idea being to shame people into behavior, or they will go down as a modern "Bloody Mary". It obviously wasn't used and I'm not even touting it but is an interesting idea. Would people change their behavior if they knew they would not be shielded by anonymity?

Frankly I think the passport idea works for me. We won't do it, but if you want to go to a sporting event, show proof. You want to go to a movie, show proof. You want to go to a bar, show proof.

The book points out that vaccine rates in this country are only as high as they are because schools require them. Vaccines not required, like HPV, have rates close to what it looks like COVID will have. For whatever reason, people don't want vaccines. HPV has been out for a while, it went through normal vetting. Yet about 40-50% aren't getting it.
Agreed re passports. Make it hard to get into places without it. As for waiving hipaa that still wouldn’t link who infected someone.

As an aside hipaa is a pretty toothless thing. There’s no private cause of action for violations
 

Jg48

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Meanwhile in Arizona where everything completely bonkers:




YES! Encouraging people to get vaccinated is JUST like communist CHINA! If true, maybe we can learn something from Communist China?
Sure, we can learn how to create world endangering viruses.
 

Marvin the Martian

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Agreed re passports. Make it hard to get into places without it. As for waiving hipaa that still wouldn’t link who infected someone.

As an aside hipaa is a pretty toothless thing. There’s no private cause of action for violations

Linking people is possible with testing. That is discussed deeply in the book, some viruses mutate too fast to allow linking, some too slow. COVID is in the Goldilocks Zone. TB is also in that zone, there is a story in the book about tracing TB infections back to patient 0.
 
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vesuvius13

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The thing lost in this vaccinate or not is for those of that are vaccinated should have no risk from those that are not vaccinated so there should be no restrictions on anyone once all that want to be vaccinated can get it.

The risk is from different variants just like other flu viruses that happen, the variants can infect people vaccinated or not.
 

mcmurtry66

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Linking people is possible with testing. That is discussed deeply in the book, some viruses mutate too fast to allow linking, some too slow. COVID is in the Goldilocks Zone. TB is also in that zone, there is a story in the book about tracing TB infections back to patient 0.
Interesting. I didn’t know that. That could potentially put employers in peril from suits
 

ce36ei

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Damn! Fully vaccinated AND already had it
They also all have ZERO symptoms I’m thinking if we suddenly started testing everybody all the time for say the flu...flu rates would explode. We all pick up viruses and bacteria everyday. It’s how your body handles it. The fact all are asymptomatic proves it’s working exactly as advertised. They also all had J&J.
 

mcmurtry66

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They also all have ZERO symptoms I’m thinking if we suddenly started testing everybody all the time for say the flu...flu rates would explode. We all pick up viruses and bacteria everyday. It’s how your body handles it. The fact all are asymptomatic proves it’s working exactly as advertised. They also all had J&J.
"working exactly as advertised." we don't know that. these are "breakthrough" cases. ideally you don't get infected at all. then if you are infected the severity is reduced bc of the vax. that's my understanding. so if they had a breakthrough then the initial defense of vax didn't work. as to whether it reduced severity we have no idea. most people are asymptomatic without a vax.

regardless numbers are improving everywhere and one has to conclude it's a product of vaccines
 

bawlmer

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The thing lost in this vaccinate or not is for those of that are vaccinated should have no risk from those that are not vaccinated so there should be no restrictions on anyone once all that want to be vaccinated can get it.

The risk is from different variants just like other flu viruses that happen, the variants can infect people vaccinated or not.
Small risk. It's not zero, but agree otherwise. Life is full of risks, most of them manageable. That's all we can hope for with COVID.
 

mashnut

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Those at risk need to get vaccinated, stay isolated or take their chances. Those are their choices. Healthy people are at very little risk, vaccinated or not. Those at risk should take precautions - better yet they should get vaccinated. I'd prefer all people get vaccinated, but at this point I see little reason to care about those that aren't. They're making their own choices. The one reason that I can think of is that as the virus gets passed around among the unvaccinated maybe it will mutate to a version which the vaccines don't work against. I'm guessing it will be treated like the flu in coming years and we'll probably have a different variant of COVID vaccine every year or so.

There's still a large chunk of people who are not hesitant or against the vaccination but have simply struggled to be able to get to a vaccination site around their work schedule and other obligations. Some of that same group is also concerned about potentially having to take a sick day after getting the shot. I think there's still room for a concerted push to do much more targeted and local vaccinations now, go around to individual employers and give the shot onsite etc.
 

Lucy01

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Qanon told them to do it ;)

Bad parenting, mental breakdowns, people gullible to all kinds of wild conspiracies..
The government outlawed Bump Stocks, that hasn’t done shit to stop mass killings!
Pelosi is behind it all!
 
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hoot1

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Upon getting my second shot, I discussed rewarding myself by going to a nearby bar . Hearing my diatribe, one of the clinic technicians strongly suggested that i go straight home.

Now it turns out, I should have waited to get my second vaccination, Heck, I might be rewarded with drinks on the house at the saloon. Kinda feel the technician would still advise against it. Being the aging party animal which I am, this is probably good advice under any circumstances.
 
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TommyCracker

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Agreed. We all need to do it for altruistic reasons

Yeah at first when my right wing friends were freaking out about potential forced vaccinations I was like, personally I don't care because the Vax is the first thing we have that protects the individual from the behavior around them.

So it fell into the motorcycle helmets, seat belts concern for me personally.


Then in these discussions it's been brought up that there are people who it doesn't work for (like Marv said) so we need to be a good neighbor.

Secondly I've been told that this thing will linger and mutate if we let it which means there's a chance we'll be right back where we started.

That will really piss me off if we don't kill it because of MAGA bullshit.

Like wish for death for MAGA's dark thoughts if we have to do this again because of them.