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Gelon

20 year stall?

Hell, Crean has been here for nearly HALF of that 20 year stall! At what point does he become responsible? At what point do you stop making excuses?

The stall started in 1993-94, it's been over 20 years. Crean inherited a pile of steaming dump, the first few years were a rebuilding train wreck.
 
He would do best not to read Doyel, too.
I wonder how Doyel feels when he has to call Crean and ask for an interview. As I recall, Doyel (to make a big splash) started calling for Crean to be fired about one month after Doyel
joined the Star. Now, he needs to talk to Crean occasionally.

.
 
Nope - I rely on Rivals and Scout because they are universally recognized to have the best recruit evaluators. That's just fact.

Universally recognized and that is a fact? Hmm, please point me to whom gets to decide that as a fact. Sounds like an opinion to me. Rivals is so good, that the moderators here just ditched them.

There are many solid services. I'm old enough to remember Bob Gibbons, Dave Telep, Clark Francis and others.
 
I realize you need to concoct that explanation because it best fits your narrative, but you really don't have even a remotely accurate view of this. Scott has defined the ceiling, and he truly doesn't believe anything else can be accomplished. In his mind, if it's never been done or the occurrence has been rare, it can't be done. Others of us aspire to much higher levels of success. It's a completely different mentality that you obviously can't comprehend.
And it's not like Scott wasn't calling for Crean's head after the Duke loss.
 
Maybe Glasses definition of elite is different than yours.
This is what Fred said.

"My goals for this program are to perennially contend for and to win multiple Big Ten championships, regularly go deep in the NCAA tournament and win our next national championship," Glass said. "Be elite, if you will."

Fred said this also:

"from a program perspective, we are not where we want to be."

That was at the end of 2014-15. I seriously doubt a B1G RS title (in a down year for the conference), a 1st rd flameout with a #1 seed in the BTT and another Sweet 16 by beating an average UK team hardly qualifies as "elite" to Fred.
 
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Universally recognized and that is a fact? Hmm, please point me to whom gets to decide that as a fact. Sounds like an opinion to me. Rivals is so good, that the moderators here just ditched them.

There are many solid services. I'm old enough to remember Bob Gibbons, Dave Telep, Clark Francis and others.

And the moderators left Rivals for WHOM? That's what I thought . . .

So, just how did Gibbons, Telep and Francis rate Gelon? Can't wait to hear this one . . .
 
And the moderators left Rivals for WHOM? That's what I thought . . .

So, just how did Gibbons, Telep and Francis rate Gelon? Can't wait to hear this one . . .

They still left Rivals. You still are cherry picking and not including all of the ratings and insistent that he is a 2 star when others have him as a 3 star. Agenda. I've shown you and others how other programs, despite your protestations, have taken kids ranked similarly to Gelon.

As far as I know, the other services haven't weighed in yet on Mr. Gelon. If you can't wait to hear this one, feel free to subscribe to those services and let us know.
 
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They still left Rivals. You still are cherry picking and not including all of the ratings and insistent that he is a 2 star when others have him as a 3 star. Agenda. I've shown you and others how other programs, despite your protestations, have taken kids ranked similarly to Gelon.

As far as I know, the other services haven't weighed in yet on Mr. Gelon. If you can't wait to hear this one, feel free to subscribe to those services and let us know.

They left Rivals - for SCOUT. What point are you trying - badly - to make?

OK - who are the other legitimate, respected services that have Gelon listed as a 3 star?

Here is the "composite" listing for Gelon from 247. He has a "National" composite of 322.

Are you freaking kidding me? Three-Hundred Twenty-two is considered a "3 Star"?

And, yes, ESPN has him listed as a 3 Star, also. You do realize ESPN listed David Williams as the #107 best recruit shortly after his verbal to IU, don't you? And that he fell from that spot AFTER he decided not to go/got Creaned from IU? His "grade" from ESPN is 75. If you look at all 2016 players graded 76 or better you'll find AT LEAST 232 players rated higher than Gelon - and that's assuming Grant is the BEST of the players graded at 75.

That why Rivals and Scout are regarded as the best evaluators. To be a 3 Star (or better) recruit, you have to be in the top 150 players. Much more demanding standards.
 
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This is what Fred said.

"My goals for this program are to perennially contend for and to win multiple Big Ten championships, regularly go deep in the NCAA tournament and win our next national championship," Glass said. "Be elite, if you will."

Fred said this also:

"from a program perspective, we are not where we want to be."

That was at the end of 2014-15. I seriously doubt a B1G RS title (in a down year for the conference), a 1st rd flameout with a #1 seed in the BTT and another Sweet 16 by beating an average UK team hardly qualifies as "elite" to Fred.

Did you ask Fred to define regularly go deep, and what that means? Ever think that Sweet 16's might be in that realm for him? If Fred was so upset with the program, you wonder why he still has Tom Crean as the head coach.
 
They left Rivals - for SCOUT. What point are you trying - badly - to make?

OK - who are the other legitimate, respected services that have Gelon listed as a 3 star?

Here is the "composite" listing for Gelon from 247. He has a "National" composite of 322.

Are you freaking kidding me? Three-Hundred Twenty-two is considered a "3 Star"?

And, yes, ESPN has him listed as a 3 Star, also. You do realize ESPN listed David Williams as the #107 best recruit shortly after his verbal to IU, don't you? And that he fell from that spot AFTER he decided not to go/got Creaned from IU? His "grade" from ESPN is 75. If you look at all 2016 players graded 76 or better you'll find AT LEAST 232 players rated higher than Gelon - and that's assuming Grant is the BEST of the players graded at 75.

That why Rivals and Scout are regarded as the best evaluators. To be a 3 Star (or better) recruit, you have to be in the top 150 players. Much more demanding standards.

ESPN and 247 have him as 3 stars. So do several others. While others have him as a 2 star. Would you like me to go through the Scout and RIvals misses of players over the years? Starting with Oladipo and we can go from there? No recruiting service is perfect.

Now, I don't know if Gelon will be good or not. He may totally bust out, but the difference between you and I is that I'm going to allow the kid to prove it and not just in year one, but over the next few years. You do as you wish, I'll do as I wish. Either way, I'm not going to lose sleep over it because we have plenty of good kids coming in and a very solid nucleus already on the team. I like this team, just as I liked last year's team when you and so many others were screaming for Crean's head and I wasn't.

Who was ultimately right last year?
 
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Did you ask Fred to define regularly go deep, and what that means? Ever think that Sweet 16's might be in that realm for him? If Fred was so upset with the program, you wonder why he still has Tom Crean as the head coach.
A national championship takes six wins, a final four takes four. It only takes two victories to reach a Sweet 16. Does that sound deep to you, especially when those appearances have resulted in resounding defeats?
 
A national championship takes six wins, a final four takes four. It only takes two victories to reach a Sweet 16. Does that sound deep to you, especially when those appearances have resulted in resounding defeats?

Is a deep run getting to the third week or the second week? A Sweet 16 goes to the second week. Why don't you ask Fred Glass, you seem to know so much more than he does, yet he's making the money that you richly deserve to run this program.
 
Is a deep run getting to the third week or the second week? A Sweet 16 goes to the second week. Why don't you ask Fred Glass, you seem to know so much more than he does, yet he's making the money that you richly deserve to run this program.
There's no need to ask since he's already told one and all. He was unequivocal. Of course, an actual former athletic administrator wouldn't try to parish his very exact statement anymore than he'd try to insincerely offer an explanation regarding a banner that was foreign to him. Snicker.
 
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ESPN and 247 have him as 3 stars. So do several others. While others have him as a 2 star. Would you like me to go through the Scout and RIvals misses of players over the years? Starting with Oladipo and we can go from there? No recruiting service is perfect.

Now, I don't know if Gelon will be good or not. He may totally bust out, but the difference between you and I is that I'm going to allow the kid to prove it and not just in year one, but over the next few years. You do as you wish, I'll do as I wish. Either way, I'm not going to lose sleep over it because we have plenty of good kids coming in and a very solid nucleus already on the team. I like this team, just as I liked last year's team when you and so many others were screaming for Crean's head and I wasn't.

Who was ultimately right last year?
Can you imagine the dilemma for him had Duke offered him the chance to walk on the Blue Devil program? Likely he would've followed his heart to Durham, don't you think?
 
There's no need to ask since he's already told one and all. He was unequivocal. Of course, an actual former athletic administrator wouldn't try to parish his very exact statement anymore than he'd try to insincerely offer an explanation regarding a banner that was foreign to him. Snicker.

And we considered a deep run into the second weekend. A special run into the final weekend. There were years we were happy to win a game. And years we were disappointed in not getting to the Final Four. Each year is different, but we also used our intellect and wisdom to know how hard a one game advancement is. On any given day you can be off 5% and lose to another team equally as talented than you, or sometimes even less talented. Those are the things in athletic administration that we knew and understood. That's why fans aren't hired to run athletic departments. Because fans are too imbalanced with emotion and make snap judgments not grounded in reality.
 
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Can you imagine the dilemma for him had Duke offered him the chance to walk on the Blue Devil program? Likely he would've followed his heart to Durham, don't you think?

Who was ultimately right last year while you and others buried this coach and team?

That's what I thought. Go to Scout, your kind is loved there.
 
And we considered a deep run into the second weekend. A special run into the final weekend. There were years we were happy to win a game. And years we were disappointed in not getting to the Final Four. Each year is different, but we also used our intellect and wisdom to know how hard a one game advancement is. On any given day you can be off 5% and lose to another team equally as talented than you, or sometimes even less talented. Those are the things in athletic administration that we knew and understood. That's why fans aren't hired to run athletic departments. Because fans are too imbalanced with emotion and make snap judgments not grounded in reality.
"We"? Snicker. We've already exposed that whopper.
 
Who was ultimately right last year while you and others buried this coach and team?

That's what I thought. Go to Scout, your kind is loved there.
Right about winning a weak Big Ten? Right about getting embarrassed in the Big Ten tournament? Right about a five seed? Right about getting run over by UNC? Sorry, those truths are just as accurate at Scout as they are here. Now, maybe you could try to sell that "I was an IU employee and athletic administrator" tale over there . . .
 
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And the moderators left Rivals for WHOM? That's what I thought . . .

So, just how did Gibbons, Telep and Francis rate Gelon? Can't wait to hear this one . . .
Just got done watching a couple of IU's tournament games from 1987 and would like to know what was the ratings for our guys on that team. I wondered how many stars each one of our bench guys got from the recruiting experts.Gus like Hillman, Eyl, Miers, Kreigh Smith, Even two of our starters were not even highly ranked. Also people talking about some of our 12th and 13th guys being lower ranked but some of the players on a championship team was not highly recruited. Players like Magnus Palokwski, or Olaphant or Tony Freeman or Dave minor.

Another thing caught my eye is how different coaches use the bench now compared to back then. In the 1987 regional final against LSU our starters played the first 15 minutes before our first subs came in. Our bench only 6 minutes the whole game. also LSU only used 3 players off the bench.
 
Grant Gelon, 3 star recruit. http://247sports.com/Player/Grant-Gelon-85635

Or, Grant Gelon, 3 star recruit http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/216288/grant-gelon


Oh, that's right, only the rankings you want to use count.
OH NO surely he doesn't do that! Oh wait I forgot he did it to me earlier when he asked me to name a couple of players then decided the ones I named were a different situation then Gelon. Scottie Pippen is more athletic therefore he doesn't count even though the article said he was not very good as a HS senior and he had to walk on to a low level college team. Damien Lillard, who only Weber State wanted, was also too athletic.
 
Right about winning a weak Big Ten? Right about getting embarrassed in the Big Ten tournament? Right about a five seed? Right about getting run over by UNC? Sorry, those truths are just as accurate at Scout as they are here. Now, maybe you could try to sell that "I was an IU employee and athletic administrator" tale over there . . .

No tale, but I can see you're going to go with this until you die so I'm about done with you. You don't like being proven wrong, so you simply attack other people all day long and try to bully them. No thanks.

Last year when so many here killed this team after Duke, said we would be lucky to go to the NIT. Said we would get crushed by Purdue. Said no way to the NCAAs. No way to a Big Ten title. Said no way to beating Kentucky. Said no way to go to the Sweet 16. The list was exhaustive how many people here bailed on this squad. There were a few of us from day one that stayed steady. The haters didn't, and when the team started to find their rhythm, then the haters started making excuses about schedules and everything else. What a bitter, lonely world. Enjoy it.
 
ESPN and 247 have him as 3 stars. So do several others. While others have him as a 2 star. Would you like me to go through the Scout and RIvals misses of players over the years? Starting with Oladipo and we can go from there? No recruiting service is perfect.

Sure - go ahead and show us all these kids who were 300+ like Gelon that Rivals and Scout missed on.

btw - you do know Vic was around 140-150 in his ratings, right?
 
OH NO surely he doesn't do that! Oh wait I forgot he did it to me earlier when he asked me to name a couple of players then decided the ones I named were a different situation then Gelon. Scottie Pippen is more athletic therefore he doesn't count even though the article said he was not very good as a HS senior and he had to walk on to a low level college team. Damien Lillard, who only Weber State wanted, was also too athletic.
It's because NEITHER of you guys will compare apples to apples.

Those guys you mentioned - Pippen, Lillard, Vic - were really good athletes. They refined their overall games in college and (in the case of Pippen) grew.

Name me ONE PLAYER like Gelon - one-dimensional, very average athletically - that has developed into at least a 10-15 minute player. C'mon boys, roll 'em out there . . .
 
Nick Zeisloft thats what Grant was recruited to be. Lets give him at least this year to see if he has that ability to become a three point marksman.
 
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Nick Zeisloft thats what Grant was recruited to be. Lets give him at least this year to see if he has that ability to become a three point marksman.
Grant can shoot. Won't have to "become" that.

Will he be able to get shots? Or contribute in other areas so as to not be a detriment if he's not hitting? Legitimate concerns there.
 
If he can consistently hit three point shots he will be a help. Not his job to create shots,they come from penetration and good ball rotation.I hope he also can hit threes from NBA range. He surprised the coaching staff by squatting 245 pounds. Hopefully he is 6 foot 5.
 
This thread is sad. A bunch of old, bitter guys, many who didn't even go to IU, dogging on a kid who gets to put on the candy stripes as a reward for all his hard work, time, sweat, dedication, and determination.

I hope he has a great career as a Hoosier, for many reasons, the least not being that he would be able to tell many of you "fans" to go piss up a rope. He doesn't seem like the type to really care what you insignificant haters think, though.
 
It's because NEITHER of you guys will compare apples to apples.

Those guys you mentioned - Pippen, Lillard, Vic - were really good athletes. They refined their overall games in college and (in the case of Pippen) grew.

Name me ONE PLAYER like Gelon - one-dimensional, very average athletically - that has developed into at least a 10-15 minute player. C'mon boys, roll 'em out there . . .


Didn't stop you from complaining when we got Oladipo because he wasn't highly rated enough. And let me guess, he got better in college all by himself, not because of any push, coaching, etc by the head coach and staff.
 
You're right. The banners exposed you. But that was only this time.

RMK had the banner put up to honor team and fans. He also had proudly displayed other displays regarding Big Ten titles at AH.

I used to enjoy when he would get frustrated by some fans who had this entitlement of victories and championships. You would have fit the bill to a tee. He despised those fans. He wanted excellence, demanded excellence, but he abhorred entitlement. Especially from fans that didn't do a damn thing, but were needy as hell and demanding more.
 
They still left Rivals. You still are cherry picking and not including all of the ratings and insistent that he is a 2 star when others have him as a 3 star. Agenda. I've shown you and others how other programs, despite your protestations, have taken kids ranked similarly to Gelon.

As far as I know, the other services haven't weighed in yet on Mr. Gelon. If you can't wait to hear this one, feel free to subscribe to those services and let us know.
These programs did take these kids, and none of them produced for them. Lindsay transferred after not playing any meaningful minutes. White has played 53 minutes in TWO years. Wasted scholarships, IMO.
 
Didn't stop you from complaining when we got Oladipo because he wasn't highly rated enough. And let me guess, he got better in college all by himself, not because of any push, coaching, etc by the head coach and staff.
Where have you ever heard me complain about Vic?
 
RMK had the banner put up to honor team and fans. He also had proudly displayed other displays regarding Big Ten titles at AH..

No, he didn't.

Besides the NCAA championship banners, he put up 2 others: 1) the '83 Big 10 banner to honor the fans and the UPI National Champions in 1975. Any others were NOT put up by RMK and to suggest otherwise proves how little you know.
 
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No, he didn't.

Besides the NCAA championship banners, he put up 2 others: 1) the '83 Big 10 banner to honor the fans and the UPI National Champions in 1975. Any others were NOT put up by RMK and to suggest otherwise proves how little you know.

I believe his post indicates displays not banners. Are (or were) these some sort of display in the cases? I don't recall anything beyond the trophies.
 
RMK had the banner put up to honor team and fans. He also had proudly displayed other displays regarding Big Ten titles at AH.

I used to enjoy when he would get frustrated by some fans who had this entitlement of victories and championships. You would have fit the bill to a tee. He despised those fans. He wanted excellence, demanded excellence, but he abhorred entitlement. Especially from fans that didn't do a damn thing, but were needy as hell and demanding more.
He hated dishonesty the most. Snicker.
 
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