Games like tonight can’t happen

[IUNorth]

It’s not that we lost to a poor Rutgers team that might only win a couple games all B10 season.

It’s how we lost. Rutgers might have played their worst game of the season, and they beat us…by 9. If they had come out on fire. Played crazy intense, inspired basketball in front of a fevered RAC crowd…that’s acceptable. We’ve seen that before. But that wasn’t tonight.

We weren’t good at any aspect of the game. We lost our composure…in a pretty mild environment.

This game completely validates all my fears of Woodson being in over his head coaching college basketball.

We’ll have some much better performances again this season. Heck, we might sweep the douchebags again. But it’s not possible for a team that’s been well coached and well prepared, to play how we did tonight.

It’s all yelling in to the wind right now. He’s not going anywhere. But man…he’s not getting the job done right now.

 

[Sobchak_Security]

Woody missed his opportunity to establish a culture of what his program was going to be about. We have no culture. We don’t consistently play hard, offense is too stagnant, defense has gotten worse each year he’s been here. This was all predicated on recruiting like Duke or UK and he hasn’t, and nothing to suggest he will. We will win a few games here and there, but I think any sensible fan knows where this is likely headed. It’s just a matter of when.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

If he's not the guy, why keep him on the mound? If a coach doesn't have the program where it should be after 3 years, 4 tops, then it is time to move on. Time to do what UK, UNC, and Kansas have done to reload coaches: go get a power 5 proven coach and pay him.

 

[IUNorth]

If he's not the guy, why keep him on the mound? If a coach doesn't have the program where it should be after 3 years, 4 tops, then it is time to move on. Time to do what UK, UNC, and Kansas have done to reload coaches: go get a power 5 proven coach and pay him.

Too emotional right now after a game like tonight’s. He took IU to the dance his first two years. That’s good enough stuff to earn him some leeway with an off year, I’m sure.

We don’t make decisions like those schools you mentioned. Right or wrong, it’s not how IU does it.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Too emotional right now after a game like tonight’s. He took IU to the dance his first two years. That’s good enough stuff to earn him some leeway with an off year, I’m sure.

We don’t make decisions like those schools you mentioned. Right or wrong, it’s not how IU does it.

I've seen enough to know it isn't special, and I thought special was the standard. This team is a s*** show with no identity. The NCAA losses have been beatdowns.

 

[IUNorth]

I've seen enough to know it isn't special, and I thought special was the standard. This team is a s*** show with no identity. The NCAA losses have been beatdowns.

Should probably be the standard…but it literally never has been with any hire in IU bball history.

RMK hire…not a household name. Hit a home run obviously.

Davis, Sampson, Crean, Miller, Woody…really? I’ve never looked at it this way. For as storied as our program is, IU has NEVER made a Roy Williams like hire. And they’ve never moved on someone this early for poor play on the court.

 

[demunn]

The press conference was the same shit regurgitated. Defensive, terse, "get them over the hump", calling X's incident a "fiasco", saying he was happy we were only down three? He completely downplayed how bad we really were and I wanted him to say that X's act was not Indiana basketball.

The team is as flat as his affect. Working hard and not smart gets us nowhere. We need someone with some passion, sense of urgency and the courage to call kids out who don't live up to our standard.

It's almost like he's forgotten where he played and who he played for.

 

[ams66]

Should probably be the standard…but it literally never has been with any hire in IU bball history.

RMK hire…not a household name. Hit a home run obviously.

Davis, Sampson, Crean, Miller, Woody…really? I’ve never looked at it this way. For as storied as our program is, IU has NEVER made a Roy Williams like hire. And they’ve never moved on someone this early for poor play on the court.

The common thread post-RMK until now is an administration that either actively wanted to de-emphasize the role of atlhetics, or just didn't care. Pamela Whitten is not liked by the faculty but she may in fact take a more active interest in the success of athletics. She knows that successful athletics programs attract students and promotes the IU "brand." It will be intereresting to see what changes she might demand in the coming years if Basketball seems to be stuck in the mud.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Should probably be the standard…but it literally never has been with any hire in IU bball history.

RMK hire…not a household name. Hit a home run obviously.

Davis, Sampson, Crean, Miller, Woody…really? I’ve never looked at it this way. For as storied as our program is, IU has NEVER made a Roy Williams like hire. And they’ve never moved on someone this early for poor play on the court.

Sampson was the only big boy hire since RMK: proven power 5 coach. Unfortunately, he had baggage.

 

[IUNorth]

The common thread post-RMK until now is an administration that either actively wanted to de-emphasize the role of atlhetics, or just didn't care. Pamela Whitten is not liked by the faculty but she may in fact take a more active interest in the success of athletics. She knows that successful athletics programs attract students and promotes the IU "brand." It will be intereresting to see what changes she might demand in the coming years if Basketball seems to be stuck in the mud.

The next bball hire will be very telling. I’ve been impressed, to be honest, with how Dolson, and she, handled the Allen/Cig decisions.

I gave Dolson a C+ for the Woody hire. I would actually give him a B for having the resolve to get the buyout money for Archie, to go hard after Steven’s, and then to get Woody.

It’ll be interesting how Dolson and the admin handle the next change decisions.

 

[trailrunner]

The press conference was the same shit regurgitated. Defensive, terse, "get them over the hump", calling X's incident a "fiasco", saying he was happy we were only down three? He completely downplayed how bad we really were and I wanted him to say that X's act was not Indiana basketball.

The team is as flat as his affect. Working hard and not smart gets us nowhere. We need someone with some passion, sense of urgency and the courage to call kids out who don't live up to our standard.

It's almost like he's forgotten where he played and who he played for.

Coaching in the NBA will do that.

 

[BigMobe]

Too emotional right now after a game like tonight’s. He took IU to the dance his first two years. That’s good enough stuff to earn him some leeway with an off year, I’m sure.

We don’t make decisions like those schools you mentioned. Right or wrong, it’s not how IU does it.

Not how you EARN a seat at the table with the Big Boys. You make NCAA every damn year, you compete for conference crown every year. Don't use someone else's recruits to slide into a tourney birth..
Step the HELL up or move along

 

[dbmhoosier]

Woody missed his opportunity to establish a culture of what his program was going to be about. We have no culture. We don’t consistently play hard, offense is too stagnant, defense has gotten worse each year he’s been here. This was all predicated on recruiting like Duke or UK and he hasn’t, and nothing to suggest he will. We will win a few games here and there, but I think any sensible fan knows where this is likely headed. It’s just a matter of when.

Kind of nailed it. You hire a guy like Woody for one reason only...you believe he'll recruit like Cal did when he was bringing in those John Wall, AD, and KAT classes each and every year. Nice man but he'd be in way over his head at Bloomington South from a coaching perspective.

 

[bsmitty08]

Too emotional right now after a game like tonight’s. He took IU to the dance his first two years. That’s good enough stuff to earn him some leeway with an off year, I’m sure.

We don’t make decisions like those schools you mentioned. Right or wrong, it’s not how IU does it.

Definitely shows that IU doesn’t make decisions like that.

 

[IUbball_lifer]

There just can’t be this level of disparity between home and away games. This says 2 things to me. One, there is enough talent to easily win a road game like this. It’s on the coaches to raise the level of play on the road, and it has been disastrous. Two, the guards/wings have to man up on the road and handle some adversity. They were all terrible last night. Much of this is mental and attitude. They have a weak mindset.
Can’t fault Ware. He had 17 rebounds. And Malik had some turnovers, but it’s because he feels the burden to carry the offense. He is trying to do too much, but it’s understandable given the guard/wing play. X and TG were awful.

 

[IUNorth]

There just can’t be this level of disparity between home and away games. This says 2 things to me. One, there is enough talent to easily win a road game like this. It’s on the coaches to raise the level of play on the road, and it has been disastrous. Two, the guards/wings have to man up on the road and handle some adversity. They were all terrible last night. Much of this is mental and attitude. They have a weak mindset.
Can’t fault Ware. He had 17 rebounds. And Malik had some turnovers, but it’s because he feels the burden to carry the offense. He is trying to do too much, but it’s understandable given the guard/wing play. X and TG were awful.

To me, its more about last night's game specifically. We did beat Michigan on the road. And Purdue getting thumped shows that the Nebraska game probably wasn't as "bad" as it seemed at the time. How we ended up losing to Nebraska is still troubling, but I think Nebraska might just be a really good basketball team...especially so at home.

THIS game though...exposed all the possible bad things with Woody and his program that have been complained about for a while now. We weren't ready to play. We were undisciplined. We were ineffective running any semblance of a functional offense. We gave up offensive boards. We missed FTs. Basically check off the list of things that are always talked about with well coached teams, we're 'awful' at them way too frequently.

Rutgers played 'awful' last night...yet they comfortably beat a team that has 3 - 5 star kids, and starts a 4th and 6th year backcourt. Can't happen.

 

[Carib04]

Where do you begin? This team needs to get back to basics. Only when you can be competent passing, shooting, dribbling and shooting free throws, only after that you can start worrying about your highlights on ESPN. Too often this team wants to razzle-dazzle when it can't even dribble or pass. Yes it appears to be a coaching issue at this point. This team could be good but needs to be drilled in the basics until they drop. I have low confidence the coaching staff can handle this task.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Woody missed his opportunity to establish a culture of what his program was going to be about. We have no culture. We don’t consistently play hard, offense is too stagnant, defense has gotten worse each year he’s been here. This was all predicated on recruiting like Duke or UK and he hasn’t, and nothing to suggest he will. We will win a few games here and there, but I think any sensible fan knows where this is likely headed. It’s just a matter of when.

The mass substitution pattern is the killer, and the easiest thing to fix. Just don't do it. Its predicated on one of two assumptions: that the other team will follow suit, just like they do in the NBA; or that our second team is just as good or better than the other line-up. Neither assumption applies to our situation. Woody's a stubborn old man and he thinks he's smarter than the other guy, and he's not.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

The next bball hire will be very telling. I’ve been impressed, to be honest, with how Dolson, and she, handled the Allen/Cig decisions.

I gave Dolson a C+ for the Woody hire. I would actually give him a B for having the resolve to get the buyout money for Archie, to go hard after Steven’s, and then to get Woody.

It’ll be interesting how Dolson and the admin handle the next change decisions.

Dolson was smart enough to know that NBA coaches have generally not worked out in the college ranks. But he misread Woody if he thought Woody would be willing to learn anything from the experience of Matta and Fife. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, and Woody is a stubborn old man.

Woody is my favorite all-time player, but I don't see this ending well for IU.

Dolson also misread the CTA situation. I don't think he deserves to keep his job at this point, while understanding he will.

 

[CriticArisen]

Dolson was smart enough to know that NBA coaches have generally not worked out in the college ranks. But he misread Woody if he thought Woody would be willing to learn anything from the experience of Matta and Fife. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, and Woody is a stubborn old man.

Woody is my favorite all-time player, but I don't see this ending well for IU.

Dolson also misread the CTA situation. I don't think he deserves to keep his job at this point, while understanding he will.

I really enjoyed watching him as a player-silky smooth. This makes it more difficult to accept his failings as coach. He must have thought it would be a piece of cake to enjoy success.

 

[bwcoach]

Someone brought it up before that he has assistants and shouldn’t they be bringing these faults/problems to his attention If anyone on staff that should say something wouldn’t you think Calbert would do that. He can easily see that what is going on is not the IU way. Some where along the line someone has to step up and tell him.

 

[Ty Webb iu]

The press conference was the same shit regurgitated. Defensive, terse, "get them over the hump", calling X's incident a "fiasco", saying he was happy we were only down three? He completely downplayed how bad we really were and I wanted him to say that X's act was not Indiana basketball.

The team is as flat as his affect. Working hard and not smart gets us nowhere. We need someone with some passion, sense of urgency and the courage to call kids out who don't live up to our standard.

It's almost like he's forgotten where he played and who he played for.

Not to mention the fact that Woody's substitutions absolutely kill IU. He clearly isn't THE guy.

 

[Ty Webb iu]

It’s not that we lost to a poor Rutgers team that might only win a couple games all B10 season.

It’s how we lost. Rutgers might have played their worst game of the season, and they beat us…by 9. If they had come out on fire. Played crazy intense, inspired basketball in front of a fevered RAC crowd…that’s acceptable. We’ve seen that before. But that wasn’t tonight.

We weren’t good at any aspect of the game. We lost our composure…in a pretty mild environment.

This game completely validates all my fears of Woodson being in over his head coaching college basketball.

We’ll have some much better performances again this season. Heck, we might sweep the douchebags again. But it’s not possible for a team that’s been well coached and well prepared, to play how we did tonight.

It’s all yelling in to the wind right now. He’s not going anywhere. But man…he’s not getting the job done right now.

This should have been an easy win had IU simply played through Reneau in the post the majority of the game. Play through Reneau and let him score or kick out to a shooter that is anyone other than Galloway and IU wins this going away.

Rewatch the beginning of the game. Reneau either scores or assists on three buckets out of 3 or 4 possessions. Then what does IU do? They go away from that the rest of the half. Instead of having him in the post, he's out at the 3 pt line attempting spinning drives into traffic, etc. It was just stupid.

IU should feed Reneau in the post, like Purdue does Edey, WAY more often than they do. And set it up so Galloway isn't the one standing in position for open 3's on kick outs. At least until Galloway gains some confidence in his shot again.

Having said that, IU still doesn't battle for boards, hustle for loose balls, etc., nearly as hard as they should. This is a team that could be very good but doesn't seem to have the coaching or intestinal fortitude to do what is necessary to win games.

It's hard to watch man!

 

[IUNorth]

This should have been an easy win had IU simply played through Reneau in the post the majority of the game. Play through Reneau and let him score or kick out to a shooter that is anyone other than Galloway and IU wins this going away.

Rewatch the beginning of the game. Reneau either scores or assists on three buckets out of 3 or 4 possessions. Then what does IU do? They go away from that the rest of the half. Instead of having him in the post, he's out at the 3 pt line attempting spinning drives into traffic, etc. It was just stupid.

IU should feed Reneau in the post, like Purdue does Edey, WAY more often than they do. And set it up so Galloway isn't the one standing in position for open 3's on kick outs. At least until Galloway gains some confidence in his shot again.

Having said that, IU still doesn't battle for boards, hustle for loose balls, etc., nearly as hard as they should. This is a team that could be very good but doesn't seem to have the coaching or intestinal fortitude to do what is necessary to win games.

It's hard to watch man!

I honestly don't mind Reneau playing away from the basket offensively, even at the expense of what you're saying.

Because without the stuff you talk about in your next to last paragraph, the specific stuff we run or style we play, doesn't matter.

If he's trying to modernize right now, and play the bigs in a more outside in fashion, that's great! Should have been done in the offseason...and he should have focused all his recruiting to playing that way...but better late than never in my opinion.

Effort, focus, discipline, fundamentals...those are what's holding our program back right now.

 

[Ty Webb iu]

I honestly don't mind Reneau playing away from the basket offensively, even at the expense of what you're saying.

Because without the stuff you talk about in your next to last paragraph, the specific stuff we run or style we play, doesn't matter.

If he's trying to modernize right now, and play the bigs in a more outside in fashion, that's great! Should have been done in the offseason...and he should have focused all his recruiting to playing that way...but better late than never in my opinion.

Effort, focus, discipline, fundamentals...those are what's holding our program back right now.

Totally agree with your last paragraph.

That doesn't change the fact that IU would have won going away if they would have played through Reneau in the post the majority of the game.

 

[IUNorth]

Totally agree with your last paragraph.

That doesn't change the fact that IU would have won going away if they would have played through Reneau in the post the majority of the game.

Probably... But I've stated on here numerous times I'd give up wins in the short term if it meant Woody was modernizing his program for the long term.

So just to win a game at Rutgers, if he is trying to change how they play, I'm fine with him sticking to what he's trying to do stylistically.

Its the effort, focus, discipline that can't be ignored or explained away.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I really enjoyed watching him as a player-silky smooth. This makes it more difficult to accept his failings as coach. He must have thought it would be a piece of cake to enjoy success.

He's a great guy.......I've felt all along he'd benefit from have a strong-willed hands-on assistant coach. Seems like the guy he's closest to is Armond Hill. who is not that person.

 

[Shuski]

They happened several times during RMK career care to revisit. I don't disagree your premise and RMK had a lot more college coaching credibility even early in his IU coaching career.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Someone brought it up before that he has assistants and shouldn’t they be bringing these faults/problems to his attention If anyone on staff that should say something wouldn’t you think Calbert would do that. He can easily see that what is going on is not the IU way. Some where along the line someone has to step up and tell him.

How about a good AD having a heart-to-heart?? Lets say Barry Alvarez was the IU athletic director....do you think he might have had some discussions with Woody by now?

 

[ams66]

How about a good AD having a heart-to-heart?? Lets say Barry Alvarez was the IU athletic director....do you think he might have had some discussions with Woody by now?

Do you know that there haven't been discussions?

 

[ORG]

It’s not that we lost to a poor Rutgers team that might only win a couple games all B10 season.

It’s how we lost. Rutgers might have played their worst game of the season, and they beat us…by 9. If they had come out on fire. Played crazy intense, inspired basketball in front of a fevered RAC crowd…that’s acceptable. We’ve seen that before. But that wasn’t tonight.

We weren’t good at any aspect of the game. We lost our composure…in a pretty mild environment.

This game completely validates all my fears of Woodson being in over his head coaching college basketball.

We’ll have some much better performances again this season. Heck, we might sweep the douchebags again. But it’s not possible for a team that’s been well coached and well prepared, to play how we did tonight.

It’s all yelling in to the wind right now. He’s not going anywhere. But man…he’s not getting the job done right now.

Your basic premise is incorrect. If games like tonight can't happen,then how do you deal with the fact that it DID happen?

 

[IUNorth]

Your basic premise is incorrect. If games like tonight can't happen,then how do you deal with the fact that it DID happen?

Damn it...

 

[FormerRevMatt]

It’s not that we lost to a poor Rutgers team that might only win a couple games all B10 season.

It’s how we lost. Rutgers might have played their worst game of the season, and they beat us…by 9. If they had come out on fire. Played crazy intense, inspired basketball in front of a fevered RAC crowd…that’s acceptable. We’ve seen that before. But that wasn’t tonight.

We weren’t good at any aspect of the game. We lost our composure…in a pretty mild environment.

This game completely validates all my fears of Woodson being in over his head coaching college basketball.

We’ll have some much better performances again this season. Heck, we might sweep the douchebags again. But it’s not possible for a team that’s been well coached and well prepared, to play how we did tonight.

It’s all yelling in to the wind right now. He’s not going anywhere. But man…he’s not getting the job done right now.

I think this is what is giving fans pause about Woody. How badly the team has looked in losses.

The pollyanna guys on this board (and we all know who they are), will point to the record, etc... And to a certain degree I agree with some of that.

The issue is that there are times that the team just looks beyond awful, with zero fundamentals, and incredibly ill-prepared to play. And it's not just this year.

Getting blown out twice in the NCAA tournament was also problematic. IU didn't just lose in the round of 64 and then the round of 32. They were beaten soundly.

There have been too many games in which IU has been absolutely blown out under Woody. That is a problem.

It's very possible that IU comes back and wins the Minnesota game on Friday and the team is 4-2. That doesn't solve the problem, however, that the team completely falls apart away from home.

 

[T.M.P.]

Should probably be the standard…but it literally never has been with any hire in IU bball history.

RMK hire…not a household name. Hit a home run obviously.

Davis, Sampson, Crean, Miller, Woody…really? I’ve never looked at it this way. For as storied as our program is, IU has NEVER made a Roy Williams like hire. And they’ve never moved on someone this early for poor play on the court.

Yes, we did. We hired Sampson, but combined with a holier than everyone naivete on how basketball is ran, it didn't work out.

Every f*cking coach in the country was using text messaging,... Yes he lied about, but what a dumbass move from an out of touch backwoods hick university was that ...

Then came Drunk Dumble-Dan who personified the holier than everyone else narrative, claimed he was the self appointed Crusader Knight of purity in basketball which was anointed to him from sniffing RMKs farts .. and he finished the destructive work the admin, and Sampson started.

Firing Sampson, self reporting, and they way we did it basically ended IU being a destination school for the best coaches I don't blame them. . From that point on, no major coach wanted or wants this job. Now we have to dive into the mid-major dumpster, hire overly orange douchebag flash in the pans, or bring in an old ass legacy.

Fan expectations are a major part of the problem. IU is not going to get a single coach being named. Why would they want to put up with the fishbowl and over-ENTITLED fan base... they're just not that into us. f**k that noise, go to a school that actually backs their coaches.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Woody was at IU for 4 years. He was in the NBA for about 40 years. It is what it is and it's not going to change. Dolson is a fool for hiring him.

 

[Al Bino]

Dolson was smart enough to know that NBA coaches have generally not worked out in the college ranks. But he misread Woody if he thought Woody would be willing to learn anything from the experience of Matta and Fife. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, and Woody is a stubborn old man.

Woody is my favorite all-time player, but I don't see this ending well for IU.

Dolson also misread the CTA situation. I don't think he deserves to keep his job at this point, while understanding he will.

How did SD "misread the CTA situation"?
And you are saying Dolson doesn't deserve to keep his job?

 

[dbmhoosier]

How did SD "misread the CTA situation"?
And you are saying Dolson doesn't deserve to keep his job?

He gave him that ridiculous extension that included an initial buyout of around $40M due to one gimmick COVID season where we didn't beat one team that finished in the top 25.

 

[Al Bino]

He gave him that ridiculous extension that included an initial buyout of around $40M due to one gimmick COVID season where we didn't beat one team that finished in the top 25.

In hindsight, he made a mistake but virtually everyone here at the time was saying "pay the man".
I think you are minimizing the fact that CTA had two of the best years in IU football history back to back. Or at the very least in many, MANY years. Probably back to Mallory.

2019 - 8-5
2020 - 6-2

Saying it was one "gimmick" season is at best, being disingenuous.
Plus, he corrected his mistake when MOST did not think he would.

 

[TR32]

Should probably be the standard…but it literally never has been with any hire in IU bball history.

RMK hire…not a household name. Hit a home run obviously.

Davis, Sampson, Crean, Miller, Woody…really? I’ve never looked at it this way. For as storied as our program is, IU has NEVER made a Roy Williams like hire. And they’ve never moved on someone this early for poor play on the court.

True, and it won't happen this time because Woodson has made back to back NCAAs and was 2nd in the conference last year. If they suck 2 years in a row (this year and next), then he probably wouldn't get a 5th year.

 

[ndhuntington]

True, and it won't happen this time because Woodson has made back to back NCAAs and was 2nd in the conference last year. If they suck 2 years in a row (this year and next), then he probably wouldn't get a 5th year.

We made the play in game and the tournament once. Archie Miller made the tournament but covid happened. If this season goes bad why would u give him year four with having to fix the entire roster next season will be worse. Now if he had four or five Impact players coming in then I could see year 4. He is 66 going to be 67 there is no reason to start over with a stop gap 67 year old coach.