Fred's roll of the dice just came up craps....

[RBB89]

I gotta say, I have not been this pessimistic about the future of the program in years. I love what TA did with the defense, buy he needed to be able to lean on our awesome offensive position coaches. We have downgraded at every staff position except OC. Throw in that our recruiting has stunk the past or three years, and we lost our best recruiters. We have a TON of talent on next year's team but a crappy OL and an inferior OL coach and a mediocre quarterback.

Even if we win this year, we will drop off significantly after losing Fant, Scales, likely Cobbs, Patrick, and possibly Westbrook. Lagow, FWIW, is also a senior. TA feels a lot like Bill Lynch at this exact moment. I really hope I'm wrong. It doesn't help that Purdue might become simultaneously become more competent.

Good Lord...Hiller is a really good OL coach. He runs the same scheme as Frey and has similar recruiting contacts. How is he an "inferior" OL coach? Frey is very good at what he does, but what do you even know about him? Are we just screwed for all eternity now because we can never surpass the greatness of Greg Frey? How did we downgrade at WR coach? Heard came from Ole Miss. Johns had been ripped here for a few years. I swear, I feel like our fans somehow expected our position coaches to magically stay here for decades. Did you think they would just never leave? Everyone deals with this.

We have a coach who finally, after two decades, gave us a defense, and has done this at multiple schools, and now people are whining because they want to score 50 a game? Which is dumb, because DeBord put up better numbers at UT. I don't get our fans. I really don't. It's like we make up things to whine about. I liked Coach Wilson, but there's been some bizarre despair over a coach who topped out at 6-7. Lynch? Please.

And hey if you want to get on board with Purdue's plan of all offense and no defense, go for it. You've seen how that works out in this conference.

By the way, you realize you just complained about how bad our recruiting has been (it hasn't?) for a few years AND lamented the loss of our "best" recruiters in the same post, right?

 

[Tokyo Steve]

By the way, you realize you just complained about how bad our recruiting has been (it hasn't?) for a few years AND lamented the loss of our "best" recruiters in the same post, right?

Same sentence, even.

 

[RBB89]

Same sentence, even.

Good point!

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Same sentence, even.

The point, that posters conveniently ignore, that IU's 'best' recruiter was just slightly above average, and he just left. I too fear another Lynch-like decline.

 

[HermanB]

I think people are losing their minds solely because of their concerns about Lagow. His numbers were really pretty good. There were a handful of balls in sure he'd like to get back. Coaching staffs change-it's the nature of the game. Allen put together a great D last year! Defense wins, folks!

 

[Bowlmania]

The point, that posters conveniently ignore, that IU's 'best' recruiter was just slightly above average, and he just left. I too fear another Lynch-like decline.

Decline from what? 26-47?

 

[Sope Creek]

Decline from what? 26-47?

My guess is that he means a decline from the 12-14 run rate IU had the last two seasons of CKW's tenure.

I think it's a legitimate concern . . . but by no means a given. That's why they play the games.

 

[bang63]

.... Anyone wanting to blame Glass for letting him go, is pretty much saying you don't give a crap about the players' well being.....

you don't know why CKW was asked to resign, you're just speculating. I don't doubt he pressured injured players that weren't rehabing properly. Whatever it was it wasn't serious enough to keep OSU from hiring him. I think it has more to do with political correctness and less to do with players physical well being. I heard DD say CKW was asked to resign for using the F word but that may have been tongue in cheek.

 

[Bowlmania]

you don't know why CKW was asked to resign, you're just speculating. I don't doubt he pressured injured players that weren't rehabing properly. Whatever it was it wasn't serious enough to keep OSU from hiring him. I think it has more to do with political correctness and less to do with players physical well being. I heard DD say CKW was asked to resign for using the F word but that may have been tongue in cheek.

Based on everything I've read, I don't think it has anything to do with political correctness. I think it has everything to do with Glass wisely containing a fire and taking steps to lessen the likelihood of a) further damage and b) costly litigation.

The fact that Meyer hired Wilson doesn't exonerate him. Meyer now knows Wilson's version of what transpired, but it's not like Meyer has had a candid heart-to-heart with Glass and now has all the salient facts. Meyer is no doubt willing to take a chance because Wilson is a proven, successful offensive coordinator and God knows OSU needed some serious help on that side of the ball. The risk associated with Wilson's hiring is mitigated because he isn't in charge of the program, and because Ryan Day (co-offensive coordinator) is waiting in the wings should Wilson eff up.

 

[IUHDog]

I gotta say, I have not been this pessimistic about the future of the program in years. I love what TA did with the defense, buy he needed to be able to lean on our awesome offensive position coaches. We have downgraded at every staff position except OC. Throw in that our recruiting has stunk the past or three years, and we lost our best recruiters. We have a TON of talent on next year's team but a crappy OL and an inferior OL coach and a mediocre quarterback.

Even if we win this year, we will drop off significantly after losing Fant, Scales, likely Cobbs, Patrick, and possibly Westbrook. Lagow, FWIW, is also a senior. TA feels a lot like Bill Lynch at this exact moment. I really hope I'm wrong. It doesn't help that Purdue might become simultaneously become more competent.

Boilerup?

 

[Chriselli]

By the way, you realize you just complained about how bad our recruiting has been (it hasn't?) for a few years AND lamented the loss of our "best" recruiters in the same post, right?

You do realize that there were other factors besides the position coaches that went into our lackluster recruiting, right? Like CKW coaching the 2015 season for his job affecting the 15 and 16 class and the loss of CKW impacting the 17 class? I doubt we lost too many players because of DMC or Greg Frey.

We have had four All-Americans during the past three years and three of the four (including a two-time AA) were coached by DMC and Greg Frey. We have had four 1,000 yard rushing seasons in three years thanks in large part to those two men. It would have been nearly impossible on our budget to upgrade our offensive staff.

I was never enamored with Johns, and I noted that we likely upgraded at OC.

I think we will be successful next year, but when the last two classes are upperclassmen, and people start complaining about our results, we will run into the EXACT same scenario where an embattled coach struggles to recruit. This is a never-ending cycle.

I am aware that position coaches typically move-on, but it doesn't make it any less of a loss.

 

[rcaulfie]

you don't know why CKW was asked to resign, you're just speculating. I don't doubt he pressured injured players that weren't rehabing properly. Whatever it was it wasn't serious enough to keep OSU from hiring him. I think it has more to do with political correctness and less to do with players physical well being. I heard DD say CKW was asked to resign for using the F word but that may have been tongue in cheek.

Yeah, I'm "speculating" after reading what a few different players said in interviews. And reading in between the lines on what they did not say. Dom Booth's words are the most significant. But go ahead and bury your head in the sand. I really don't care.

 

[Tokyo Steve]

For those who feel that the quality of our coaching staff has dropped and fear a decline in recruiting and W/L performance, I list the following reasons why I don't share that fear.

Our defense improved greatly last year and there are reasons to hope it will further improve this year:

• There was minimal loss of defensive players (Marcus Oliver being the obvious exception; I think we can weather the loss of Ralph Green).
• There was no turnover of defensive coaching staff.
• Based on what I've read in this thread, many will disagree with me but I believe that Coach Hagen was our top recruiter for the class of 2017. I hope he gets promoted to DC in the next year or two (after CTA is confident that his system is fully installed), because of concern that he could be offered a DC position elsewhere.

There are reasons to believe our offense will be better this coming year than last year.

• I think that Coaches DeBord and Sheridan, in combination with Coach Heard, who I view as a receiver coach upgrade, can greatly improve our passing game, especially given the depth of our receiver group.
• Coach Hiller has coached a lot of good linemen and currently has a solid core that will be around for a few years (all scheduled to return in 2018 and many in 2019). No doubt we will miss Frey's connections in Florida and Ohio, but sustained strong performance over the next few years will lead to future opportunities with high level recruits.
• McCullough is tough to replace, but Coach Hart just could be the guy to do it, based on pedigree, as both a player and a young coach.
  
• The reunion of blue-blood program, former teammates Hart and Sheridan with their former coach, DeBord, has obvious appeal.

Our recruiting can be stronger than ever before.

• If our defense improves again this year, recruits will increasingly perceive that as a trend. And as long as we still have Coaches Hagen and Allen, we're covered defensively.
• Coach Heard has a record of getting tall, fast and skilled receivers. We've had some good height recently, but I believe Heard can combine similar height with better speed than we've previously seen.
  
• There's a good chance that Coaches Hart and Sheridan will stick around, as I don't foresee Michigan (likely their dream destination) coming after them . . . yet . . . and I'd imagine they'd both like to stop moving all over the map for a while. And given that their time at Indiana should be one of the most significant milestones in their careers, these young guys have all kinds of incentive to recruit, recruit, recruit.
• I think Coaches DeBord and Sheridan will be more successful than Wilson was at attracting QBs.
• I think Coach Allen will prove to be a better deal closer than Wilson was. I know who would impress me more if I were being recruited or if my son was being recruited.

Anyway, I thought I'd just mention a few reasons why I am hopeful about the direction of the program.

 

[Bowlmania]

For those who feel that the quality of our coaching staff has dropped and fear a decline in recruiting and W/L performance, I list the following reasons why I don't share that fear.

Our defense improved greatly last year and there are reasons to hope it will further improve this year:

• There was minimal loss of defensive players (Marcus Oliver being the obvious exception; I think we can weather the loss of Ralph Green).
• There was no turnover of defensive coaching staff.
• Based on what I've read in this thread, many will disagree with me but I believe that Coach Hagen was our top recruiter for the class of 2017. I hope he gets promoted to DC in the next year or two (after CTA is confident that his system is fully installed), because of concern that he could be offered a DC position elsewhere.

There are reasons to believe our offense will be better this coming year than last year.

• I think that Coaches DeBord and Sheridan, in combination with Coach Heard, who I view as a receiver coach upgrade, can greatly improve our passing game, especially given the depth of our receiver group.
• Coach Hiller has coached a lot of good linemen and currently has a solid core that will be around for a few years (all scheduled to return in 2018 and many in 2019). No doubt we will miss Frey's connections in Florida and Ohio, but sustained strong performance over the next few years will lead to future opportunities with high level recruits.
• McCullough is tough to replace, but Coach Hart just could be the guy to do it, based on pedigree, as both a player and a young coach.
  
• The reunion of blue-blood program, former teammates Hart and Sheridan with their former coach, DeBord, has obvious appeal.

Our recruiting can be stronger than ever before.

• If our defense improves again this year, recruits will increasingly perceive that as a trend. And as long as we still have Coaches Hagen and Allen, we're covered defensively.
• Coach Heard has a record of getting tall, fast and skilled receivers. We've had some good height recently, but I believe Heard can combine similar height with better speed than we've previously seen.
  
• There's a good chance that Coaches Hart and Sheridan will stick around, as I don't foresee Michigan (likely their dream destination) coming after them . . . yet . . . and I'd imagine they'd both like to stop moving all over the map for a while. And given that their time at Indiana should be one of the most significant milestones in their careers, these young guys have all kinds of incentive to recruit, recruit, recruit.
• I think Coaches DeBord and Sheridan will be more successful than Wilson was at attracting QBs.
• I think Coach Allen will prove to be a better deal closer than Wilson was. I know who would impress me more if I were being recruited or if my son was being recruited.

Anyway, I thought I'd just mention a few reasons why I am hopeful about the direction of the program.

Great post, with several excellent points made.

I agree that it's reasonable to expect continued improvement in the defense this season. In fact, given our returning defensive production and Coach Allen's leadership, I'll be surprised if we're not a Top 30 (nationally) defense this year.

Our QB and OL play will, in my opinion, determine how far we go this season. Lagow now has a year of B1G play under his belt. If he improves, and the OL holds up, we'll win more games than we lose.

 

[bang63]

Yeah, I'm "speculating" after reading what a few different players said in interviews. And reading in between the lines on what they did not say. Dom Booth's words are the most significant. But go ahead and bury your head in the sand. I really don't care.

Wow, you came to a conclusion based on reading between the lines and going by what people didn't say? Maybe you should try reading tea leaves or call Ms Cleo.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

For those who feel that the quality of our coaching staff has dropped and fear a decline in recruiting and W/L performance, I list the following reasons why I don't share that fear.

Our defense improved greatly last year and there are reasons to hope it will further improve this year:

• There was minimal loss of defensive players (Marcus Oliver being the obvious exception; I think we can weather the loss of Ralph Green).
• There was no turnover of defensive coaching staff.
• Based on what I've read in this thread, many will disagree with me but I believe that Coach Hagen was our top recruiter for the class of 2017. I hope he gets promoted to DC in the next year or two (after CTA is confident that his system is fully installed), because of concern that he could be offered a DC position elsewhere.

There are reasons to believe our offense will be better this coming year than last year.

• I think that Coaches DeBord and Sheridan, in combination with Coach Heard, who I view as a receiver coach upgrade, can greatly improve our passing game, especially given the depth of our receiver group.
• Coach Hiller has coached a lot of good linemen and currently has a solid core that will be around for a few years (all scheduled to return in 2018 and many in 2019). No doubt we will miss Frey's connections in Florida and Ohio, but sustained strong performance over the next few years will lead to future opportunities with high level recruits.
• McCullough is tough to replace, but Coach Hart just could be the guy to do it, based on pedigree, as both a player and a young coach.
  
• The reunion of blue-blood program, former teammates Hart and Sheridan with their former coach, DeBord, has obvious appeal.

Our recruiting can be stronger than ever before.

• If our defense improves again this year, recruits will increasingly perceive that as a trend. And as long as we still have Coaches Hagen and Allen, we're covered defensively.
• Coach Heard has a record of getting tall, fast and skilled receivers. We've had some good height recently, but I believe Heard can combine similar height with better speed than we've previously seen.
  
• There's a good chance that Coaches Hart and Sheridan will stick around, as I don't foresee Michigan (likely their dream destination) coming after them . . . yet . . . and I'd imagine they'd both like to stop moving all over the map for a while. And given that their time at Indiana should be one of the most significant milestones in their careers, these young guys have all kinds of incentive to recruit, recruit, recruit.
• I think Coaches DeBord and Sheridan will be more successful than Wilson was at attracting QBs.
• I think Coach Allen will prove to be a better deal closer than Wilson was. I know who would impress me more if I were being recruited or if my son was being recruited.

Anyway, I thought I'd just mention a few reasons why I am hopeful about the direction of the program.

KW failed to recruit a QB even with his QB friendly program. It has to get better in that regard.

 

[Bowlmania]

KW failed to recruit a QB even with his QB friendly program. It has to get better in that regard.

He got Tommy Stevens to commit but a 4-8 season (which, ironically, was the result of a lack of QB depth after KW was unable to hold on to either Roberson or Coffman) scared him off.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

He got Tommy Stevens to commit but a 4-8 season (which, ironically, was the result of a lack of QB depth after KW was unable to hold on to either Roberson or Coffman) scared him off.

So add "or hold on to" to my post.

 

[Bowlmania]

So add "or hold on to" to my post.

Wasn't looking to contradict you. I was underscoring your point that QB quality/depth was a problem during his tenure - - surprising given his offensive success and his history with Bradford.

 

[toastedbread]

The point, that posters conveniently ignore, that IU's 'best' recruiter was just slightly above average, and he just left. I too fear another Lynch-like decline.

Wasn't a huge fan of Wilson, but bringing in an assistant who then replaces him smells funny to me. It's dishonorable. Allen's track record as a head coach is completely non-existent. I liked him a lot as DC. Head coach is a giant ? mark.

Considering Fred's horrific track record with hires across all sports I'm not expecting much. I think he didn't like Wilson for personal/political reasons and that's what the firing was about.

 

[RBB89]

Wasn't a huge fan of Wilson, but bringing in an assistant who then replaces him smells funny to me. It's dishonorable. Allen's track record as a head coach is completely non-existent. I liked him a lot as DC. Head coach is a giant ? mark.

Considering Fred's horrific track record with hires across all sports I'm not expecting much. I think he didn't like Wilson for personal/political reasons and that's what the firing was about.

Dude, every time you come over here you prove that you have no clue what you're talking about.

Horrific track record? Stop.

You realize we hired Wilson as HC from being an assistant with no HC experience, right? And that's really not unusual, especially for programs of our stature without a ton of clout.

Wilson sought out and hired Allen.

Why would Glass give KW a huge new contract and raise only to intentionally can him a year later?

I like KW, but he had numerous off the field issues. He opened up the university to lawsuits. Outside the Lines is working on a story about the situation.

Stop spouting off when you pop over here every few months.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Good point!

No and no. Some very average recruiting, with one somewhat better than the average. No IU football recruiter able to secure a standout difference-maker at QB for six years. Not a good point at all.