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Ford

Trucks don't help me much. Interesting to see the vertical integration of the battery process.
 
Unless the distance you can travel on a battery has greatly improved or charging time diminished, I don't want an EV.

They have to give me both of those things comparable to a gas powered vehicle.

Edit to add: Also, I don't think our electric grid is ready for all of the cars to be running off of them and I highly question the idea that these are going to be more environmentally friendly because of that and the method in which the precious metals have to be extracted for the batteries.
 
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Unless the distance you can travel on a battery has greatly improved or charging time diminished, I don't want an EV.

They have to give me both of those things comparable to a gas powered vehicle.

Edit to add: Also, I don't think our electric grid is ready for all of the cars to be running off of them and I highly question the idea that these are going to be more environmentally friendly because of that and the method in which the precious metals have to be extracted for the batteries.
Agreed but it is where the future lies. Glad to see a US company continuing to take the lead on production at least. Innovation will continue and hopefully at US based companies.
 
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Yuck. Obviously there is no stopping this. All we can hope is that these companies manage to stop making all of these EV's look like soul-less pod vehicles and make something remotely interesting.
I just can’t get past the lack of engine sound/note. It’s such a part of the allure of a vehicle and of auto racing in general. I know the performance is similar/better and will only improve. But “soul-less” is a good way to describe it.
 
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Agreed but it is where the future lies. Glad to see a US company continuing to take the lead on production at least. Innovation will continue and hopefully at US based companies.
Yeah, looking forward if they could get the distance and charging time comparable (or better) then a gas car, then I am in on the car. I still think the other 2 items are going to be a big deal though. That is an additional burden on the electric grid and quite a few of the metals needed for the batteries are controlled by China. And for the environmental types, there is this to grapple with:

 
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Unless the distance you can travel on a battery has greatly improved or charging time diminished, I don't want an EV.

They have to give me both of those things comparable to a gas powered vehicle.

Most people's daily commutes and other normal travels are easily within the current range already. Just can't forget to plug it in for the charge overnight.
 
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Going full blast it EV.

We don’t have enough electricity. We aren’t planning on materially increasing production.

Lithium mining and smelting is a huge issue today, and will get worse. On average you need to mine 5,000 pounds of ore to have enough lithium for one car.

Better if we develop hydrogen for vehicles.
 
My wife wants a Miata, when they come in stock again, so car #2 has to have the range for car trips. So I am going to wait until something decent looking and affordable has a 400 mile range. That would be talking an hour stop after 6-6.5 hours of driving, which doesn't sound so bad. I don't think she wants to wait for the Miata EV or Miata hybrid promised by 2030. Kids are all through college and the 2003 Pilot with 370K miles and the 2005 CRV with 185K miles need some upgrading. I just gave kid #2 my 2013 Accord, after she moved from NYC.
 
Yeah, looking forward if they could get the distance and charging time comparable (or better) then a gas car, then I am in on the car. I still think the other 2 items are going to be a big deal though. That is an additional burden on the electric grid and quite a few of the metals needed for the batteries are controlled by China. And for the environmental types, there is this to grapple with:

Yeah, nothing is "free" from an energy standpoint. Just b/c we aren't pumping carbon from the tailpipe doesn't mean we aren't when extracting minerals from the Earth, and transporting them, and manufacturing. I would hazard a guess that we're at least 50 years away from the end of the gas/diesel engine at least for heavy equipment and manufacturing.
 
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We don’t have enough electricity. We aren’t planning on materially increasing production.

Lithium mining and smelting is a huge issue today, and will get worse. On average you need to mine 5,000 pounds of ore to have enough lithium for one car.

Better if we develop hydrogen for vehicles.


I don't really know shit about car production.... but I'm assuming people running a major car company are aware of these issues.
 
I don't really know shit about car production.... but I'm assuming people running a major car company are aware of these issues.
I make the same assumption. That’s why the commitment to EV is even more difficult to understand.

This quote suggests the decision is more about marketing, image, and maybe government quid pro quo.

“This is a transformative moment where Ford will lead America’s transition to electric vehicles and usher in a new era of clean, carbon-neutral manufacturing,” said Ford executive chairman Bill Ford, a long-time proponent of the push to electric vehicles. “With this investment and a spirit of innovation, we can achieve goals once thought mutually exclusive – protect our planet, build great electric vehicles Americans will love and contribute to our nation’s prosperity.”​

There is nothing carbon neutral about battery production. Mobile carbon capture is a thing but car companies won’t address it until government gets on board. Most of government sees the future of everything as electric (already seeing bans on NG in home building) but we have no large scale electrical production projects (nuclear) underway.
 
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they can probably come up with wireless charging pads that will charge your car automatically when you park it in the garage.
 
Problem with hydrogen vehicles is the cost for building up the infrastructure around the country. No one will get a hydrogen car until there are hydrogen stations nearby to fill it up.

And our government wouldn't be able to pass a bill large enough to build up the hydrogen stations since they can't agree to much of anything outside of giving themselves perks.
 
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Yuck. Obviously there is no stopping this. All we can hope is that these companies manage to stop making all of these EV's look like soul-less pod vehicles and make something remotely interesting.

If I can't feel the engine, is it really that fun to drive?
 
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Is feeling/hearing the engine the only thing that would make it fun to drive? Zipping around and feeling the g's wouldn't do it?
 
Is feeling/hearing the engine the only thing that would make it fun to drive? Zipping around and feeling the g's wouldn't do it?
Imagine if this was quiet.



First comment on the YT:
First it sounds like an air raid siren. Then a banshee. Then like someone has captured approximately six million angry hornets. And put them in a cage with the banshee. Ungodly and beautiful.
 
I am all for electric cars but I doubt that I will ever be able to afford to buy a car gas or electric powered again. So I'll stick to my 8 cylinder 2006 Toyota Tundra.

Scapegoat Joe better hurry up and get those electric chargers on the Interstates. I saw maybe a dozen of them at a Loves Truck stop and there were no cars using them. Apparently Loves Country store buys them and offers them as a business but criminal Scapegoat Joe think the govt. needs to be involved and flood the market with these charging stations. By the time they are really need they will be outdated and need replaced. Oh well, govt can just steal another umteen trillion dollar from Americans to replace them.
 
Hell, I miss the days when cars were simple. Rear wheel drive vehicles with normally aspirated non injected internal combustion engines that relied on mechanicals and electricals, not electronics and sensors, that the average person with a passing interest and a modicum of mechanical aptitude could diagnose and repair themselves. I would rather drop 20-30k on a 60's or early 70's example of Detroit Iron as opposed to what gets produced today.
 
Unless the distance you can travel on a battery has greatly improved or charging time diminished, I don't want an EV.

They have to give me both of those things comparable to a gas powered vehicle.

Edit to add: Also, I don't think our electric grid is ready for all of the cars to be running off of them and I highly question the idea that these are going to be more environmentally friendly because of that and the method in which the precious metals have to be extracted for the batteries.
On your last note. Yes, mining and extraction costs have to be included in the calculus. However, we can’t act like those same costs are not present in the mining for oil. The output for ICE cars is a major factor, but it is not the only one that makes fossil fuels hard on the environment.
 
You think this wouldn't be fun? 0-60 in 1.9 secs.


There is more to it than just acceleration. Zipping around in an electric jelly bean, no matter how fast, just doesn't have much appeal to me.

Now moving forward perhaps auto makers will indeed make some EV's with some actual character to them. But for now they all have that same Tesla-wannabe pod people look about them.
 
There is more to it than just acceleration. Zipping around in an electric jelly bean, no matter how fast, just doesn't have much appeal to me.

Now moving forward perhaps auto makers will indeed make some EV's with some actual character to them. But for now they all have that same Tesla-wannabe pod people look about them.
rh_crossturismo_quickeditlr-15.jpg
 
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Yeah, looking forward if they could get the distance and charging time comparable (or better) then a gas car, then I am in on the car. I still think the other 2 items are going to be a big deal though. That is an additional burden on the electric grid and quite a few of the metals needed for the batteries are controlled by China. And for the environmental types, there is this to grapple with:

Imagine all those gas stations on the interstate being charging stations. Imagine the grid required to service all these cars and trucks stopping not every 400 miles for a fillup, but a 2 hour charge on 250 miles.

It's insanity to build EV vehicles without the grid to support it. Even if the grid can handle it, the backup of vehicles waiting to charge is going to make long distance trips unbearable.
 
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It's insanity to build EV vehicles without the grid to support it. Even if the grid can handle it, the backup of vehicles waiting to charge is going to make long distance trips unbearable.
You talk like all people do is drive cross country.

The vast vast majority of miles driven are during the daily commute and running errands and shopping and the like. Plug in and charge overnight and you're good to go. If all the two car families just switch one of their vehicles to EV, the infrastructure to support both gas and EV will coexist for a long time. Horses and buggies didn't disappear immediately after Ford introduced the Model T, and Ford drivers had to plan their trips around fuel availability early on.
 
Imagine all those gas stations on the interstate being charging stations. Imagine the grid required to service all these cars and trucks stopping not every 400 miles for a fillup, but a 2 hour charge on 250 miles.

It's insanity to build EV vehicles without the grid to support it. Even if the grid can handle it, the backup of vehicles waiting to charge is going to make long distance trips unbearable.
I’d rather see the market drive this. When the government has to decide the winner, with 5-figure incentives, something isn’t kosher. That said, you have to believe the technology is going to advance to the point that recharging will be much quicker and easier and that battery life will be expanded.

it doesn’t help, however, when GM has to recall so many Volts, at a cost of 1.2 billion or something, IIRC, due to potential fire hazards. (“Don’t charge the battery beyond 90%. Don’t let the remaining capacity fall below 70 miles. Don’t park the car inside after re-charging. Don’t park within 50 feet of another car.”) Hell, why would I want a car with those types of restrictions?

I want a car with a little sound. Like my long-lamented 69 Chevelle SS 396. Sounded great just idling.
 
You talk like all people do is drive cross country.

The vast vast majority of miles driven are during the daily commute and running errands and shopping and the like. Plug in and charge overnight and you're good to go. If all the two car families just switch one of their vehicles to EV, the infrastructure to support both gas and EV will coexist for a long time. Horses and buggies didn't disappear immediately after Ford introduced the Model T, and Ford drivers had to plan their trips around fuel availability early on.
My daughter and son-in-law have a Bolt, so I know all about the advantages of driving an EV in town. The Bolt is a nice little car, with the emphasis on little.

I also know they have a gas powered vehicle to drive any kind of distance, after they tried to drive to Florida in their EV. Or anywhere over 250 miles.

People go on vacations. And an EV is fine for short distances. But when you want too somewhere, you don't want to spend half your time on the road charging your vehicle.

Maybe some enterprising ride-sharing company will figure out how to switch vehicle on the interstate so you leave your dead batter vehicle and pick up a new one, and then charge the vehicle for the next driver.
 
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I’d rather see the market drive this. When the government has to decide the winner, with 5-figure incentives, something isn’t kosher. That said, you have to believe the technology is going to advance to the point that recharging will be much quicker and easier and that battery life will be expanded.

it doesn’t help, however, when GM has to recall so many Volts, at a cost of 1.2 billion or something, IIRC, due to potential fire hazards. (“Don’t charge the battery beyond 90%. Don’t let the remaining capacity fall below 70 miles. Don’t park the car inside after re-charging. Don’t park within 50 feet of another car.”) Hell, why would I want a car with those types of restrictions?

I want a car with a little sound. Like my long-lamented 69 Chevelle SS 396. Sounded great just idling.
I agre about the market driving it. My son-in-law and daughter would have never bought their Bolt if it wasn't subsidized.

Battery life extension is proving a lot more difficult than when the whole EV craze started.
 
I’d rather see the market drive this. When the government has to decide the winner, with 5-figure incentives, something isn’t kosher. That said, you have to believe the technology is going to advance to the point that recharging will be much quicker and easier and that battery life will be expanded.

it doesn’t help, however, when GM has to recall so many Volts, at a cost of 1.2 billion or something, IIRC, due to potential fire hazards. (“Don’t charge the battery beyond 90%. Don’t let the remaining capacity fall below 70 miles. Don’t park the car inside after re-charging. Don’t park within 50 feet of another car.”) Hell, why would I want a car with those types of restrictions?

I want a car with a little sound. Like my long-lamented 69 Chevelle SS 396. Sounded great just idling.
Those 396 engines were badass. Friend of mine had a 450 Impala that would fly. He also had a GTO and I don't know what size the engine was, but it was a screamer.

Those were the days....
 
Those 396 engines were badass. Friend of mine had a 450 Impala that would fly. He also had a GTO and I don't know what size the engine was, but it was a screamer.

Those were the days....

…. of 8-10 mpg.

GTOs were outstanding. And then GM put 396s in Camaros and Firebirds.
 
That’s just a sin to put the Mustang name on that. Carroll Shelby is turning over in his grave.
My first car was a 65 and I miss it to this day. But whether it's a Mustang, GTO, Chevelle,.. it's nothing more than a product. Grave rolling and sin are just the result of good marketing.
 
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