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Flynn pardoned

It will be a t shirt cannon of pardons for the worst people. Trump supporters will be silent.
 
We disagree on this one my friend. Our government should be comprised of elected officials that abide the Constitution - not seek power and spy on its own people.

I’ve become extremely Libertarian on this.
We can't have individuals that believe things aren't quite right making our nation's secrets public. We have whistleblower procedures. We have IGs. There are avenues for doing this and the one he took wasn't one of them. He's a criminal that should be in prison.
 
We can't have individuals that believe things aren't quite right making our nation's secrets public. We have whistleblower procedures. We have IGs. There are avenues for doing this and the one he took wasn't one of them. He's a criminal that should be in prison.


he may be a “criminal”, but it would be a tiny infraction. sure, he was wrong for doing it, but it needed to be done. i hope youre not advocating for a head on a pike, as Ive seen others say. if he needs to do a minuscule amount of jail time, thats fine. I’d say had he gone through the usual channels, he would’ve been silenced or buried. that would’ve been wrong.

a pardon is the right thing, given two choices we have today. (jail time isnt an option now....)
 
We can't have individuals that believe things aren't quite right making our nation's secrets public. We have whistleblower procedures. We have IGs. There are avenues for doing this and the one he took wasn't one of them. He's a criminal that should be in prison.
To whom would we have blown the whistle? The military industrial complex was neck deep in it. He would’ve been thrown out onto the street or worse. Everything I’ve read about him showed he has the most sincere of intentions and never made it about him.

I will be fine with a ceremonial day in prison like a future HoFer that signs a one day contract with his former team to retire as a member of that team. Nothing more. We need more patriots that sacrifice everything for what’s right. Again, our government exists to serve us, not to lord over us. Period.
 
To whom would we have blown the whistle? The military industrial complex was neck deep in it. He would’ve been thrown out onto the street or worse. Everything I’ve read about him showed he has the most sincere of intentions and never made it about him.

I will be fine with a ceremonial day in prison like a future HoFer that signs a one day contract with his former team to retire as a member of that team. Nothing more. We need more patriots that sacrifice everything for what’s right. Again, our government exists to serve us, not to lord over us. Period.
FTR, Snowden has always claimed that he did try to raise these issues within internal channels. Whether he exhausted all possible channels, I have no idea.
 
There will be bountiful head shaking this season. Trump is everything bad only 100x worse.

While I can see the case for not pardoning Flynn I’m at a loss about why that pardon is bad. Flynn’s crime has no victim, he didn’t defraud the government, nor expose it to any risk. He served with distinction. Others have granted pardons for much worse offenses. On balance I think Flynn deserves a pardon more than most.

What is the problem here?
 
Remember he was also quite young and naïve. He was far wiser at that age than I.
I've tried really hard to form a strong opinion on him. I can't. I won't be offended if he's pardoned. But I'm also not invested in the outcome, either. I do think that what he exposed was far worse than what he did, so in a moral universe, the argument could be made that it would be wrong to punish him for that.
 
While I can see the case for not pardoning Flynn I’m at a loss about why that pardon is bad. Flynn’s crime has no victim, he didn’t defraud the government, nor expose it to any risk. He served with distinction. Others have granted pardons for much worse offenses. On balance I think Flynn deserves a pardon more than most.

What is the problem here?

I agree with a proviso, if there was a quid pro quo of "stay silent on X and I will pardon you after the election", then there is a case for outrage.
 
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While I can see the case for not pardoning Flynn I’m at a loss about why that pardon is bad. Flynn’s crime has no victim, he didn’t defraud the government, nor expose it to any risk. He served with distinction. Others have granted pardons for much worse offenses. On balance I think Flynn deserves a pardon more than most.

What is the problem here?

Did you have an issue when Clinton lied under oath? The lie didn't hurt anyone afterall.

Lying to investigators and obstructing justice...no big deal. I mean it is exactly what trump did so must be fine.
 
Plus, this is the guy that led the chanting of "Lock her up" over hillary's emails. No proof of anyone being a victim and not even lying or obstructing justice. But he apparently felt it was worthy of being sent to jail.

Yet, when Melanie Trump got caught doing the exact same thing, not a peep.

I would like to say the double standard is shocking but it is just par for the course.
 
While I can see the case for not pardoning Flynn I’m at a loss about why that pardon is bad. Flynn’s crime has no victim, he didn’t defraud the government, nor expose it to any risk. He served with distinction. Others have granted pardons for much worse offenses. On balance I think Flynn deserves a pardon more than most.

What is the problem here?
treason is a minor offense
 
Did you have an issue when Clinton lied under oath? The lie didn't hurt anyone afterall.

Lying to investigators and obstructing justice...no big deal. I mean it is exactly what trump did so must be fine.

This should have been resolved and Flynn freed months ago. A pardon should never have been necessary. Judge Sullivan fooling around with the motion to dismiss and his post hearing delay in ruling are obviously intended to run out the clock.
 
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While I can see the case for not pardoning Flynn I’m at a loss about why that pardon is bad. Flynn’s crime has no victim, he didn’t defraud the government, nor expose it to any risk. He served with distinction. Others have granted pardons for much worse offenses. On balance I think Flynn deserves a pardon more than most.

What is the problem here?
After Flynn pulled this Qanon crap, I don't have any support for him, at all, on anything.


And, now that he's been pardoned, isn't he now unable to use the Fifth Amendment to avoid testifying?
 
This should have been resolved and Flynn freed months ago. A pardon should never have been necessary. Judge Sullivan fooling around with the motion to dismiss and his post hearing delay in ruling are obviously intended to run out the clock.

Yea should have been resolved with him in prison already.

Cohen came clean and went to jail but the liar gets set free. Swearing fealty to dictator trump paid off
 
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Let’s get to the point here. Trump pardoned Flynn for the same reason he tried to have Barr change the plea - Flynn would be a witness against Trump. The pardon is buying off his silence. That’s the story here.

Heh. So Flynn’s got the goods on Trump being a super secret Russian agent? The only difference between the Russian hoaxers and Qanon is the Q.
 
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Correct. From a practical standpoint, it's as if he's been granted immunity.

Not exactly. Immunity agreements usually require the defendant to testify. Pardons don’t. Without the leverage of an immunity agreement, Flynn is free to use the Hillary “I don’t recall” evasion.
 
Not exactly. Immunity agreements usually require the defendant to testify. Pardons don’t. Without the leverage of an immunity agreement, Flynn is free to use the Hillary “I don’t recall” evasion.

Right. I’m guessing you weren’t bothered in the least by the Jeff Sessions testimony.
 
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Not exactly. Immunity agreements usually require the defendant to testify. Pardons don’t. Without the leverage of an immunity agreement, Flynn is free to use the Hillary “I don’t recall” evasion.
True, but he can still be forced to testify and would be subject to sanctions for lying or being provably evasive.
 
Heh. So Flynn’s got the goods on Trump being a super secret Russian agent? The only difference between the Russian hoaxers and Qanon is the Q.

You should read Flynn’s original plea. He was back channeling with the Russians and won’t divulge the contents of the conversations. But yeah, it’s on par with a secretive pedo cult that drinks the blood of children.
 
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