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Fans in the stands?

CC Mac

All-Big Ten
Aug 19, 2002
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I’m ready for some tailgating and in person football.
It’s only 8 months away,I know it seems like a long ways off.
What’s your thoughts on the upcoming season? Think fans will be allowed?
I know it mostly hinges on the effectiveness of the vaccine.
 
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I’m ready for some tailgating and in person football.
It’s only 8 months away,I know it seems like a long ways off.
What’s your thoughts on the upcoming season? Think fans will be allowed?
I know it mostly hinges on the effectiveness of the vaccine.
Not only the effectiveness of the vaccine but how many actually get it.

I think things will be better by September but nowhere close to "normal." My hunch is that tickets will be sold for Big Ten football, but with limited capacity. Not sure about tailgating. Btw, it was officially prohibited at Ray Jay last Saturday, but some were still doing it - - albeit on a small scale.
 
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I think we will be back up to "normal" by September. There might be some protocols in place such as masks, temperatures and things still but I will bet we are close to 100% capacity by then. We have about 20% of the US population that has contracted the virus or has been vaccinated. We are hoping to be vaccinating a lot more per day as each week goes by.
70% will get us to normal flu levels for complete normalcy but I think once we are over 50%, the number of new infections will be going down drastically. You will start to see things freeing up before then but the first sign will be the # of new cases going down. The deaths always mimics the increases/decreases as the new cases but typically lag behind about 3 weeks to a month. Mainly because people get the virus and then later are hospitalized and then fight for a few weeks before passing.

Anyways, I think we will be as close to normal next fall as we can be with the virus still having some residual impact.
 
Nobody has a clue as of right now. I read an article yesterday that explains how the vaccines are bottlenecked at the distribution level. This has created chaos and upset the original plan of taking the first dose and then taking the second dose one month later for full protection.

The trial participants took the vaccines under that guideline. They are now talking of just giving people the first dose and possibly delaying the second dose because of distribution issues.
 
Nobody has a clue as of right now. I read an article yesterday that explains how the vaccines are bottlenecked at the distribution level. This has created chaos and upset the original plan of taking the first dose and then taking the second dose one month later for full protection.

The trial participants took the vaccines under that guideline. They are now talking of just giving people the first dose and possibly delaying the second dose because of distribution issues.
Yeah, it's not getting into people's arms fast enough.

Epidemiologists say that 75%-85% of the population needs to be vaccinated before a return to any semblance of normalcy. I just don't see us getting there by the start of football season, particularly when you factor in the anti-vaxxers and other idiots.
 
Yeah, it's not getting into people's arms fast enough.

Epidemiologists say that 75%-85% of the population needs to be vaccinated before a return to any semblance of normalcy. I just don't see us getting there by the start of football season, particularly when you factor in the anti-vaxxers and other idiots.

Herd immunity is 70%. This is a longstanding thing that has always been known. " Experts estimate that in the U.S., 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the epidemic." Mayo Clinic Herd Immunity

Anyways, even that, it doesn't even mean you need 200 million people vaccinated, just 200 million people immune which can come from getting the virus. Some still have really strong antibodies after 10 months, some begin to slowly dissipate after 3 months.

Lastly, we are not talking about having herd immunity, we are talking about the stadiums reopening. We do not need to wait until we get to that point before we reopen stadiums. What we need to have happen is getting our elderly vaccinated and thereby our deaths drop and thereby our hospitals free up. Once that death rate drops down to the levels we are seeing with the youth due to the severe patients being immune, we will have our country re-opening. Again, its not a return to normalcy as masks and other measures will still be in place but I have little to no doubt the stadiums will be back open again this fall.

Don't take my advice, take Fauci's..... Fall Sports Stadium Attendance
 
South African strain is terrifying. I literally cannot imagine what we will do if these vaccines (that we can't even get distributed) are rendered useless.
 
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Herd immunity is 70%. This is a longstanding thing that has always been known. " Experts estimate that in the U.S., 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the epidemic." Mayo Clinic Herd Immunity

Anyways, even that, it doesn't even mean you need 200 million people vaccinated, just 200 million people immune which can come from getting the virus. Some still have really strong antibodies after 10 months, some begin to slowly dissipate after 3 months.

Lastly, we are not talking about having herd immunity, we are talking about the stadiums reopening. We do not need to wait until we get to that point before we reopen stadiums. What we need to have happen is getting our elderly vaccinated and thereby our deaths drop and thereby our hospitals free up. Once that death rate drops down to the levels we are seeing with the youth due to the severe patients being immune, we will have our country re-opening. Again, its not a return to normalcy as masks and other measures will still be in place but I have little to no doubt the stadiums will be back open again this fall.

Don't take my advice, take Fauci's..... Fall Sports Stadium Attendance
Read the article again. He says that full NFL stadiums at the start of the season is a "possibility." And, per the article: "One condition underscores that prediction - - the willingness of American adults to become vaccinated." There's a lot of resistance.

Then there's this, in a more recent interview: "To get back to normal, Fauci said between 75% and 85% of the population will need to get inoculated against Covid-19." I made that point earlier in the thread.
 
Read the article again. He says that full NFL stadiums at the start of the season is a "possibility." And, per the article: "One condition underscores that prediction - - the willingness of American adults to become vaccinated." There's a lot of resistance.

Then there's this, in a more recent interview: "To get back to normal, Fauci said between 75% and 85% of the population will need to get inoculated against Covid-19." I made that point earlier in the thread.

I think the unwillingness of anyone to get vaccinated is overrated. Not because someone chooses to do so one way or another, just in regards to the importance it does or doesn't play into re-opening a stadium.

Right now we are locked down in some degree in this country because there is no option of vaccination. Once the ability to get vaccinated is available to any and everyone, then society can turn the page. Anyone not wanting to get vaccinated is the one taking the "gamble" and that is 100% up to that individual. In the same way its on each individual to "gamble" on taking the vaccine; however, society won't wait until we know 70% of society has it. We just need to know that its been readily available for a period of time for at least 70% of the population. After that.......the danger of COVID is on those individuals. I will get vaccinated and not have a single concern being in a packed stadium in September without knowing who is or isn't vaccinated. Make sense?
 
I will get vaccinated and not have a single concern being in a packed stadium in September without knowing who is or isn't vaccinated. Make sense?
Yes, there would be little to no risk for you in that scenario. But there will no packed stadiums as long as a packed stadium poses "super-spreader" risk, and that risk remains until the vast majority of people have been vaccinated.

Have a good afternoon.
 
By late spring covid will be almost over. Heck look at the SD/ND curves. It’s cratered there. We’ll be in herd immunity with vaccines and people who have gotten it....at least here in Indiana. Metros might be a different deal.
 
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Yes, there would be little to no risk for you in that scenario. But there will no packed stadiums as long as a packed stadium poses "super-spreader" risk, and that risk remains until the vast majority of people have been vaccinated.

Have a good afternoon.

What? No, there will be no risk for anyone that wants the vaccine. The risk is then assumed by the individual and not anyone holding an event. I can imagine that might even be printed on the ticket itself. It's going to be tied to availability and anyone not taking them up on the option to get vaccinated will be the ones having to determine how to avoid getting it. I assure you, once we have a solution in place that allows a fully open free market (ala, plenty of vaccination available), the government and all business will release restrictions while maintaining warnings.

Care to place a friendly wager on this? :cool:
 
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The risk is then assumed by the individual and not anyone holding an event. I can imagine that might even be printed on the ticket itself.
There is a difference here between risk and liability. Yes, the individual assumes the risk, but it will be difficult for events to be released of liability. Unfortunately, policies are going to be dictated by actual health numbers (cases, deaths, hospital bed, etc.) and not vaccinations. Laws and restrictions exist because of the actions of the irresponsible. Classic case of "this is why we can't have nice things."
 
There is a difference here between risk and liability. Yes, the individual assumes the risk, but it will be difficult for events to be released of liability. Unfortunately, policies are going to be dictated by actual health numbers (cases, deaths, hospital bed, etc.) and not vaccinations. Laws and restrictions exist because of the actions of the irresponsible. Classic case of "this is why we can't have nice things."

Anytime you purchase a ticket there is a liability clause attached. So colleges would hold no liability. The only thing that could happen is bad publicity but legally they wouldn't be held liable. They already had 12,500 fans at the Colts games, not to mention some stadiums were at 35% capacity in the SEC under those same pretenses. Was ND held liable for the on field chaos after the Clemson game?

I do agree that policies will be dictated by the health numbers but I also think those numbers go hand in hand with vaccination. Those numbers will never be obsolete but that was never the goal once we realized how easily it spread. The goal is to lower the numbers to a level where we feel our hospitals will not be overwhelmed. That will come much quicker than any herd immunity number. If 50% of the population is unable to get the virus, you will see a vastly lower number of infections and thereby lower number of deaths.

What you won't see happening is a limited number of cases still coming in yet most all of them tied to individuals who have not been vaccinated.....and expect the government or businesses to stay closed. Hence the summer re-opening while a pandemic was still going on. The #1 issues have been our healthcare infrastructure and the ability to lower the # of infections in the elderly. Once those two are achieved, you will see normal levels at hospitals, drastically lower number of severe cases and large events will begin taking place. All of this coinciding with summer lowering the #'s. Stadiums will be a go come fall.
 
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FYI...My judge executive here in Lyon County just announced that 70+ year old people will be eligible to take the vaccine tomorrow at a set time/location. Interesting.....
 
In fall, only fans who have proof of being vaccinated will be allowed into stadiums. No attendance restrictions otherwise. That should motivate some fans to do the right thing and get the shots.
 
In fall, only fans who have proof of being vaccinated will be allowed into stadiums. No attendance restrictions otherwise. That should motivate some fans to do the right thing and get the shots.

If you must be vaccinated to attend games, my days of attending games will be over.

Who are you to say what the “right” things is? Last I checked, we live in America and have the freedom to make choices.
 
If you must be vaccinated to attend games, my days of attending games will be over.

Who are you to say what the “right” things is? Last I checked, we live in America and have the freedom to make choices.
Indeed you do, but none of those rights are absolute when they collide with the rights of others. You have the right to refuse the vaccination if you choose, and the university has the right to refuse you admittance to events if that is the choice you make. No different than requiring students to have proper vaccinations before they are allowed to enroll.

I have no idea what IU or any other university might require of fans, but the argument that an individual has the right to be a threat to the health and well-being of others in a public setting does not now - and has never - held water. From being required to wear a shirt and shoes to being prohibited from smoking or prohibited from carrying firearms, the courts have been clear that public safety is paramount to anyone's individual liberty.
 
If you must be vaccinated to attend games, my days of attending games will be over.

Who are you to say what the “right” things is? Last I checked, we live in America and have the freedom to make choices.
Individual liberty is not absolute. Read Jacobson v. Massachusetts.
 
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Yeah, it's not getting into people's arms fast enough.

Epidemiologists say that 75%-85% of the population needs to be vaccinated before a return to any semblance of normalcy. I just don't see us getting there by the start of football season, particularly when you factor in the anti-vaxxers and other idiots.
Well, you didn't think we'd have a football season, and we did.

Sorry if I don't really pay much attention to what you 'see' happening.
 
In fall, only fans who have proof of being vaccinated will be allowed into stadiums. No attendance restrictions otherwise. That should motivate some fans to do the right thing and get the shots.

I am very pro-vaccination but the "right" thing is a bit strong. If you added "IMO", ok. But I do think everyone has a choice as to what they put in their body and what's right to you doesn't have to be right to someone else.

Again, if you get vaccinated its not you that pays the price (assuming it does indeed work as stated), its them. Just like masks, businesses have the right to require one on the property. The president or CDC can preach the importance or educate on the benefits but I don't think you can ever force someone to wear a mask. You can not allow them on your property or business if you so choose and they can do the same inversely, but I think that is where the obvious black and white line belongs.

Anyways, I still think we will be a go in the fall.
 
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Well, you didn't think we'd have a football season, and we did.

Sorry if I don't really pay much attention to what you 'see' happening.
Well, when you think about, it wasn't really an extreme position considering the Commissioner said there wouldn't be a season.

You can't possibly be this stupid. Oh, wait. It's you. Yes you can.
 
Indeed you do, but none of those rights are absolute when they collide with the rights of others. You have the right to refuse the vaccination if you choose, and the university has the right to refuse you admittance to events if that is the choice you make. No different than requiring students to have proper vaccinations before they are allowed to enroll.

I have no idea what IU or any other university might require of fans, but the argument that an individual has the right to be a threat to the health and well-being of others in a public setting does not now - and has never - held water. From being required to wear a shirt and shoes to being prohibited from smoking or prohibited from carrying firearms, the courts have been clear that public safety is paramount to anyone's individual liberty.

You'll be vaccinated. How could I possibly be a threat to you?
 
Well, when you think about, it wasn't really an extreme position considering the Commissioner said there wouldn't be a season.

You can't possibly be this stupid. Oh, wait. It's you. Yes you can.
LMAO! You were wrong. So, stupid is as stupid does, Forest.
 
Well, you didn't think we'd have a football season, and we did.

Sorry if I don't really pay much attention to what you 'see' happening.
Ask him about his forecast of a 1 to 2 month delay to start the NFL season, that also never happened. On a side note, ask this board if anyone remembers that I lobbied for IU to go after Kiffin, as head coach, a few years back. It certainly came back to haunt them, for those that doubted at the time.
 
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You'll be vaccinated. How could I possibly be a threat to you?
I'm not sure you that you understand how vaccines work. Even if the the vaccine is 95% effective, coming in contact with others that are infected greatly increases the likelihood of contracting the virus for those that are vaccinated. Now, if everyone is vaccinated, there will be far less opportunity for spread, and the virus will quickly die out.

For instance, the measles vaccine is 90+% effective, yet it still flares up because anti-vaxers expose enough vaccinated people that there are still outbreaks.
 
Herd immunity is 70%. This is a longstanding thing that has always been known. " Experts estimate that in the U.S., 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the epidemic." Mayo Clinic Herd Immunity

Anyways, even that, it doesn't even mean you need 200 million people vaccinated, just 200 million people immune which can come from getting the virus. Some still have really strong antibodies after 10 months, some begin to slowly dissipate after 3 months.

Lastly, we are not talking about having herd immunity, we are talking about the stadiums reopening. We do not need to wait until we get to that point before we reopen stadiums. What we need to have happen is getting our elderly vaccinated and thereby our deaths drop and thereby our hospitals free up. Once that death rate drops down to the levels we are seeing with the youth due to the severe patients being immune, we will have our country re-opening. Again, its not a return to normalcy as masks and other measures will still be in place but I have little to no doubt the stadiums will be back open again this fall.

Don't take my advice, take Fauci's..... Fall Sports Stadium Attendance

I have a friend who is a nurse at IU Health in Bloomington who had covid and who also just got the vaccine yesterday. I asked her why she had to get the vax after already having it. She said you could get it again.

I don't know if that's truth or just precaution.
 
Ask him about his forecast of a 1 to 2 month delay to start the NFL season, that also never happened. On a side note, ask this board if anyone remembers that I lobbied for IU to go after Kiffin, as head coach, a few years back. It certainly came back to haunt them, for those that doubted at the time.
So, because of one game, you're ready to throw in the towel on a guy who's 11-3 in his last 14 Big Ten games? And for Kiffin, a guy who's even nuttier than you?
 
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I have a friend who is a nurse at IU Health in Bloomington who had covid and who also just got the vaccine yesterday. I asked her why she had to get the vax after already having it. She said you could get it again.

I don't know if that's truth or just precaution.

Yeah its possible but has been proven to be highly unlikely. We have to realize this thing is here to stay. Even when we vaccinate the world there is still a 5% chance someone would get it if they came in contact with it. Then from that 5% chance you have a fraction of a fraction of a serious illness from it. That would lower it down below flu-like levels but still existent.

Studies have shown a very small number of people were found to have a lower presence of anti-bodies from having the virus previously, after about the 3 month mark. That's why they say if you have had the virus within the last 3 months, you will not be able to get vaccinated. The vaccine apparently counteracts with the anti-bodies. The problem is there are different levels of the virus so if you had a minor version and were able to overcome it then its more likely your anti-bodies will fade and you could then contract again. There is also the false positives that come into play as well.

Either way, the odds are pretty low and most are showing just as strong anti-bodies 10 months after the virus. That would allow you to assume a lot of people have long term immunity and as time goes on we may find its a lifetime for most. So its a quirky mixed bag but in the end, the odds tend to lean drastically in our favor even if there are some outliers.
 
If you must be vaccinated to attend games, my days of attending games will be over.

Who are you to say what the “right” things is? Last I checked, we live in America and have the freedom to make choices.
Hey there's always radio..
Not this cat ..Hell I'd take ten shots .To see a concert or a sporting event..And I'm pretty old!
 
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