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Facts and Questions involving the Blake Shooting

mushroomgod_1

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Apr 9, 2012
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Having watched the 2 videos and read quite a bit about the shooting, I was interested in a thread listing only the facts as known, and unanswered questions, avoiding the political debate as much as possible.......

Here are some things I have read or seen that I believe are true concerning the situation:

--Blake's outstanding warrant was for Sexual Assault, 3rd Degree, which in Wisconsin is defined as "Sexual Intercourse with a person without consent". 3rd degree SA in Wisconsin lacks the element of "use or threat of force" which would have made it 2nd degree SA. The incident allegedly happened on May 3rd, and was charged on July 6th. The two other counts were Misdemeanor Trespassing and Disorderly Conduct. The report I read concerning the incident said "A women Blake knew told police he came to her house about 6:00 am, sexually assaulted her and then took her debit card and car keys before fleeing in her vehicle". The report also said (without further explanation) that "All three charges carried a penalty enhancer because they were connected to domestic abuse". I have seen allegations that he raped a 15 or 16 year old girl....but the alleged victim was a adult and there was no allegation the the charges of use or threat of force.

--In terms of prior arrests/convictions, in Sept 2015 he was charged, according to the report I read, with Resisting Law Enforcement, Disorderly Conduct, and 3 gun-related charges (the specific charges were not listed) after "a confrontation at a bar led to a combative traffic stop". However, these charges were dismissed in Dec. 2018 by Prosecutors "due to witness issues and the age of the case".

--On the 2nd video, which some of you probably have not seen, it shows a chaotic scene prior to the shooting. 6-8 family members are screaming. It's not exactly clear who they are screaming at or what they are saying. I do wonder if they are screaming at the cops, because the 3 cops do not appear to be concerned with them, but only with Blake. The cops appear to have Blake down, and he is able to stand up. It's not entirely clear how because the car mostly blocks the view. You can't tell from the video whether he had been tased twice as the police allege, or if so, if they happened while he was down or before that.

--Both videos next show Blake walking, in a rather deliberative fashion, around the front of the car, with something in his left hand hand. It is not possible to tell whether or not it is a knife. However, the man who took the video says the police were yelling "drop the knife". All 3 cops I can see on the video have their guns drawn on him after he gets up and before he starts walking. As he gets to the door, the closest cop closes the distance between he and Blake, and grabs Blake's left shoulder, attempting to stop him from opening the door. However, he is able to open the door and leans down and in. It's not clear to me whether he is leaning in to grab something, or preliminary to getting into the car. We also know from police reports that there were children (three?) in the car. No gun was found in the car, but police say there was a knife on the driver's side floor....one report said 'under the seat'.

These are the public facts as I believe them to be. If any posters know more or otherwise, please say so.

Here are some questions based on the above:

--The cops knew there was an outstanding warrant and the protective order (I think). Did they know about the sex charge? Did any of them know him from past dealings?

--Why was Blake there? (Some people are saying he was originally there without incident, and then got in the middle of a fight between two women) Did he bring the kids with him originally, or was he just leaving with them? Were the kids in the car also children of the woman he was there to see?

--If he was leaving with them and they were also the children of his alleged past victim, was he leaving with them with permission of the mother?

--Did the tasing, if it happened, occur before or as the police and Blake were on the ground?

--How was Blake able to get off the ground? Was it because he showed a knife, or did he just break loose?

--Why didn't they try to 'tackle' Blake as he walked around the car? Was it because they thought he had a knife?

--Did the cop who shot Blake think he was reaching for something (ie..a gun, if he already had a knife in hand), or just trying to leave?
 
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Having watched the 2 videos and read quite a bit about the shooting, I was interested in a thread listing only the facts as known, and unanswered questions, avoiding the political debate as much as possible.......

Here are some things I have read or seen that I believe are true concerning the situation:

--Blake's outstanding warrant was for Sexual Assault, 3rd Degree, which in Wisconsin is defined as "Sexual Intercourse with a person without consent". 3rd degree SA in Wisconsin lacks the element of "use or threat of force" which would have made it 2nd degree SA. The incident allegedly happened on May 3rd, and was charged on July 6th. The two other counts were Misdemeanor Trespassing and Disorderly Conduct. The report I read concerning the incident said "A women Blake knew told police he came to her house about 6:00 am, sexually assaulted her and then took her debit card and car keys before fleeing in her vehicle". The report also said (without further explanation) that "All three charges carried a penalty enhancer because they were connected to domestic abuse". I have seen allegations that he raped a 15 or 16 year old girl....but the alleged victim was a adult and there was no allegation the the charges of use or threat of force.

--In terms of prior arrests/convictions, in Sept 2015 he was charged, according to the report I read, with Resisting Law Enforcement, Disorderly Conduct, and 3 gun-related charges (the specific charges were not listed) after "a confrontation at a bar led to a combative traffic stop". However, these charges were dismissed in Dec. 2018 by Prosecutors "due to witness issues and the age of the case".

--On the 2nd video, which some of you probably have not seen, it shows a chaotic scene prior to the shooting. 6-8 family members are screaming. It's not exactly clear who they are screaming at or what they are saying. I do wonder if they are screaming at the cops, because the 3 cops do not appear to be concerned with them, but only with Blake. The cops appear to have Blake down, and he is able to stand up. It's not entirely clear how because the car mostly blocks the view. You can't tell from the video whether he had been tased twice as the police allege, or if so, if they happened while he was down or before that.

--Both videos next show Blake walking, in a rather deliberative fashion, around the front of the car, with something in his left hand hand. It is not possible to tell whether or not it is a knife. However, the man who took the video says the police were yelling "drop the knife". All 3 cops I can see on the video have their guns drawn on him after he gets up and before he starts walking. As he gets to the door, the closest cop closes the distance between he and Blake, and grabs Blake's left shoulder, attempting to stop him from opening the door. However, he is able to open the door and leans down and in. It's not clear to me whether he is leaning in to grab something, or preliminary to getting into the car. We also know from police reports that there were children (three?) in the car. No gun was found in the car, but police say there was a knife on the driver's side floor....one report said 'under the seat'.

These are the public facts as I believe them to be. If any posters know more or otherwise, please say so.

Here are some questions based on the above:

--The cops knew there was an outstanding warrant and the protective order (I think). Did they know about the sex charge? Did any of them know him from past dealings?

--Why was Blake there? (Some people are saying he was originally there without incident, and then got in the middle of a fight between two women) Did he bring the kids with him originally, or was he just leaving with them? Were the kids in the car also children of the woman he was there to see?

--If he was leaving with them and they were also the children of his alleged past victim, was he leaving with them with permission of the mother?

--Did the tasing, if it happened, occur before or as the police and Blake were on the ground?

--How was Blake able to get off the ground? Was it because he showed a knife, or did he just break loose?

--Why didn't they try to 'tackle' Blake as he walked around the car? Was it because they thought he had a knife?

--Did the cop who shot Blake think he was reaching for something (ie..a gun, if he already had a knife in hand), or just trying to leave?

Ask Labron...he was apparently there.
 
Believe the guy who shot the best video said that he grabbed his phone and started recording after they tased him. Also believe I read an article that said he wasn’t supposed to be at that girls house. Dunno if that means she had a restraining order or what.
 
If past transgressions are justification for shooting someone, I'm a dead man walking.
So past transgressions should not play a role in how police approach, apprehend, confront, or detain a known violent criminal committing additional criminal Acts? Is that even possible.
 
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If past transgressions are justification for shooting someone, I'm a dead man walking.
I doubt you've been charged with sexual assault, resisting law enforcement, and three gun charges. what i wonder in reading this is in responding to the call if they had blake's name and were able to run him in advance of interacting with them. in my view that's where the prior transgressions can perhaps explain if the cops went into this anxious/amped up and expecting a fight.
 
So past transgressions should not play a role in how police approach, apprehend, confront, or detain a known violent criminal committing additional criminal Acts? Is that even possible.
Good question. How much of a bad hombre does one have to be before it's okay to shoot him?
 
If he gets in the car the car turns into a weapon putting anyone on the road at risk, including the kids in the car. Also the kids in the car potentially turn into hostages.
 
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I doubt you've been charged with sexual assault, resisting law enforcement, and three gun charges. what i wonder in reading this is in responding to the call if they had blake's name and were able to run him in advance of interacting with them. in my view that's where the prior transgressions can perhaps explain if the cops went into this anxious/amped up and expecting a fight.
See my response to Jim.
 
See my response to Jim.
they aren't justification for shooting but they may better explain the cops' mental state in addressing this bad hombre. that's why i'd be curious to know if they went in blind and behaved as they did or if they went in aware of his gun charges
 
Good question. How much of a bad hombre does one have to be before it's okay to shoot him?

That's the problem, there's going to be subjectivity. Most rational people would find your DUI or marijuana offense less of a physical threat than prior gun charges, resisting arrest and sexual assault
 
These questions dont even come up if Blake complies with police commands, or submits to even the second taser.
 
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If past transgressions are justification for shooting someone, I'm a dead man walking.
If you walk out of your trailer with your wife beater shirt on and point your gun at the cops, or won't drop your knife and say you're reaching for your gun in your yard barn . . . probably. Wouldn't matter about your past transgressions.
 
If you walk out of your trailer with your wife beater shirt on and point your gun at the cops, or won't drop your knife and say you're reaching for your gun in your yard barn . . . probably. Wouldn't matter about your past transgressions.
And if I'm wearing a nice pink knit polo? Huh? Huh??? What then?
 
Private street. Private property.
My street is public! How did this happen? ;) You can march down my street and I won't shoot you . . . I don't currently own a weapon. However, if I did own one I certainly know how to use it and I have the military sharpshooter ribbons that prove that I can hit my target. But I've never actually killed anyone . . . with a rifle or pistol . . . you're safe. Probably. ;)
 
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He should have been shot once. Not seven times. But to argue he should not have been shot is just insane. There has to be law and order in this country. You say he shouldn’t be shot, so more people can fight the cops and think they are above the law and can not be shot? So stupid.


I'm far right of you.....but the # of shots is concerning. Maybe we can have some less than angry conversation about it.

Here's the thing...if he had a gun in his left hand (it seems that he did) and he's going to the car and leaning in, wouldn't you assume he's doing so to get a gun? He's probably not looking for his driver's license.

Now, it could be that he was trying to just get in the car and drive away. I can't tell which from the videos.

The cop had about 1/2 second to decide what to do. What did he think Blake was doing? IF he was intending to drive away and you know it, do you let him go? I think no, but I also think you'd likely just try to jump on him and cover him up, rather than shoot.

So I think it's probable the cop thought he was going for a gun. If so, I don't think you let him get the gun. You shoot. Now here's the question, about which I admit to being ignorant, as I'm not a gun guy or a cop: how many times to shoot?

You say once. But we know that someone on fentanyl can sometimes withstand a gun shot and come back for more. So do you shoot twice, three times, or to kill, as this cop obviously did? If you're the cop, are you going to bet your life on one shot if you think he's getting a gun?

It certainly seems the training in this area is to shoot to kill, if you're going to shoot at all. The emphasis is on the cop going home alive. It's not like a John Wayne movie where you're shooting the gun out of someone's hand or just winging him. Now the part about which I have no knowledge,,,,are these guns easy to control once you start shooting....I have no idea.
 
I'm far right of you.....but the # of shots is concerning. Maybe we can have some less than angry conversation about it.

Here's the thing...if he had a gun in his left hand (it seems that he did) and he's going to the car and leaning in, wouldn't you assume he's doing so to get a gun? He's probably not looking for his driver's license.

Now, it could be that he was trying to just get in the car and drive away. I can't tell which from the videos.

The cop had about 1/2 second to decide what to do. What did he think Blake was doing? IF he was intending to drive away and you know it, do you let him go? I think no, but I also think you'd likely just try to jump on him and cover him up, rather than shoot.

So I think it's probable the cop thought he was going for a gun. If so, I don't think you let him get the gun. You shoot. Now here's the question, about which I admit to being ignorant, as I'm not a gun guy or a cop: how many times to shoot?

You say once. But we know that someone on fentanyl can sometimes withstand a gun shot and come back for more. So do you shoot twice, three times, or to kill, as this cop obviously did? If you're the cop, are you going to bet your life on one shot if you think he's getting a gun?

It certainly seems the training in this area is to shoot to kill, if you're going to shoot at all. The emphasis is on the cop going home alive. It's not like a John Wayne movie where you're shooting the gun out of someone's hand or just winging him. Now the part about which I have no knowledge,,,,are these guns easy to control once you start shooting....I have no idea.
how about giving cops tranquilizer guns or develop something else that can subdue without killing , apparently tasers dont stop everyone. shooting to kll is a helluva responsibility to put on someone, we have all missed 3 foot putts
 
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I'm far right of you.....but the # of shots is concerning. Maybe we can have some less than angry conversation about it.

Here's the thing...if he had a gun in his left hand (it seems that he did) and he's going to the car and leaning in, wouldn't you assume he's doing so to get a gun? He's probably not looking for his driver's license.

Now, it could be that he was trying to just get in the car and drive away. I can't tell which from the videos.

The cop had about 1/2 second to decide what to do. What did he think Blake was doing? IF he was intending to drive away and you know it, do you let him go? I think no, but I also think you'd likely just try to jump on him and cover him up, rather than shoot.

So I think it's probable the cop thought he was going for a gun. If so, I don't think you let him get the gun. You shoot. Now here's the question, about which I admit to being ignorant, as I'm not a gun guy or a cop: how many times to shoot?

You say once. But we know that someone on fentanyl can sometimes withstand a gun shot and come back for more. So do you shoot twice, three times, or to kill, as this cop obviously did? If you're the cop, are you going to bet your life on one shot if you think he's getting a gun?

It certainly seems the training in this area is to shoot to kill, if you're going to shoot at all. The emphasis is on the cop going home alive. It's not like a John Wayne movie where you're shooting the gun out of someone's hand or just winging him. Now the part about which I have no knowledge,,,,are these guns easy to control once you start shooting....I have no idea.

very easy to control once shooting. It’s not like an automatic assault rifle which just starts spraying once you shoot.

I think wrestling and taking people to the ground is super dangerous. You give them the opportunity to grab what ever weapons you have on you and use it against you, and if you have a knife or weapon much easier to strike at the close a distance.

I would be all for night sticks. Long 4-5 footers that can be condensed down to 8-12 inches. Carry one of those on you. No1 is going to die. You are gonna break some legs tho. Train them to wack the shin. You will take any man or woman down With ease. Will look horrible on video tho, but do we want less killings or better optics?
 
very easy to control once shooting. It’s not like an automatic assault rifle which just starts spraying once you shoot.

I think wrestling and taking people to the ground is super dangerous. You give them the opportunity to grab what ever weapons you have on you and use it against you, and if you have a knife or weapon much easier to strike at the close a distance.

I would be all for night sticks. Long 4-5 footers that can be condensed down to 8-12 inches. Carry one of those on you. No1 is going to die. You are gonna break some legs tho. Train them to wack the shin. You will take any man or woman down With ease. Will look horrible on video tho, but do we want less killings or better optics?

I’ve recently said the same thing. Time to go back to carrying batons. I good smack across the knee or shin would stop a lot of resisting I would think.
 
Good question. How much of a bad hombre does one have to be before it's okay to shoot him?

That depends. What color is the hombre?

Apparently if you’re a 17 year old white kid who just murdered a couple of people and you’re walking with an AR (or something similar) around your shoulder, a lot of cops will drive right by you.

If you take out a church full of black folks you get a free meal from Burger King.
 
That depends. What color is the hombre?

Apparently if you’re a 17 year old white kid who just murdered a couple of people and you’re walking with an AR (or something similar) around your shoulder, a lot of cops will drive right by you.

If you take out a church full of black folks you get a free meal from Burger King.

Justice for Nicholas Dyksma.

Look it up and then stop playing the race card in every scenario in life.
Are you marching for Nicholas?
 
Justice for Nicholas Dyksma.

Look it up and then stop playing the race card in every scenario in life.
Are you marching for Nicholas?

Well he did die 5 years ago.

Some cases, like that of Nicholas Dyksma, involved the same knee-to-neck hold that killed Floyd. Dyksma, 18, died in 2015 after Harris County, Ga., deputies tased him, placed him in handcuffs, and held a knee on his neck until he stopped breathing. Dyksma was white, but the victim was a black man in three-fourths of the 32 incidents analyzed. Many were stopped for minor infractions, because they fit the description of a suspect, or because they were acting erratically due to drugs or mental illness. Most officers involved faced little repercussion except going on temporary leave pending the outcome of an investigation. Just five cases resulted in demotion or firing; five cases also led to criminal charges for officers, but those charges were dropped in all but two cases.
 
Well he did die 5 years ago.

Some cases, like that of Nicholas Dyksma, involved the same knee-to-neck hold that killed Floyd. Dyksma, 18, died in 2015 after Harris County, Ga., deputies tased him, placed him in handcuffs, and held a knee on his neck until he stopped breathing. Dyksma was white, but the victim was a black man in three-fourths of the 32 incidents analyzed. Many were stopped for minor infractions, because they fit the description of a suspect, or because they were acting erratically due to drugs or mental illness. Most officers involved faced little repercussion except going on temporary leave pending the outcome of an investigation. Just five cases resulted in demotion or firing; five cases also led to criminal charges for officers, but those charges were dropped in all but two cases.

So....it’s an afterthought because it happened in 2015 and the victim was an 18 year old white kid?
Got it.

if we are looking at fatalities in 2020, a total of 242 white people and 123 black people were shot and killed by police.
Now, I know the old argument “but black folks are statistically more likely to be killed by police.”
In measure of human life, a life is a life. A 1:1 ratio. We are all created equal and to demean the value of a human life of any color by putting some percentage qualifier on it is sad.
 
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Want to stop police shootings of Blacks? Try to teach Blacks to do what the police ask them! It’s that simple people!
 
No it's not! Blacks do not trust that they will come out alive if stopped and curtailed/arrested by cops. This is why many of them do not do what the cops say. they think their odds are better if they resist.
 
No it's not! Blacks do not trust that they will come out alive if stopped and curtailed/arrested by cops. This is why many of them do not do what the cops say. they think their odds are better if they resist.

Then people like Lebron need to quit telling them they are being hunted. They are being taught to fear police at a young age. That needs to stop.
 
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No it's not! Blacks do not trust that they will come out alive if stopped and curtailed/arrested by cops. This is why many of them do not do what the cops say. they think their odds are better if they resist.
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No it's not! Blacks do not trust that they will come out alive if stopped and curtailed/arrested by cops. This is why many of them do not do what the cops say. they think their odds are better if they resist.

That is completely made up. It’s pure conjecture with no evidence to prove that. “I don’t trust police and so I am going to turn combative and hostile to improve my chances.”
Complete nonsense.

if we are into conjecture, I’ll offer up a few more.

“I’m high as a kite on drugs and so any response I make is likely not well thought out because.....well, I’m out of my mind on crack.”

“F@&K the police! And, f&$k my boss! Nobody tells me what to do.”

“I’m not complying because this guy is white and he cannot tell me what to do because I’m racist and hate white people.”

All other potential thought processes.
 
how about giving cops tranquilizer guns or develop something else that can subdue without killing , apparently tasers dont stop everyone. shooting to kll is a helluva responsibility to put on someone, we have all missed 3 foot putts
There are no such simplistic solutions.

There literally (not figuratively) is nothing that is guaranteed to "subdue without killing."

Not tranquilizer:

Not pepperballs:

Not pepperSPRAY either:

Not Tasers:

Not rubber bullets:

Not billyclubs:
You don't need a link for this one, do you? Surely not.

On the other hand, guns CAN subdue without killing but often don't.

It's not the amount of force; it's the decision to use force at all that is being questioned.

One thing needed is review of the rules of engagement for police (what are police supposed to do in specific situations). Tasers in this situation?



People also need to educate themselves on what they should do when engaging with a cop:


It's not simple.
 
That is completely made up. It’s pure conjecture with no evidence to prove that. “I don’t trust police and so I am going to turn combative and hostile to improve my chances.”
Complete nonsense.

if we are into conjecture, I’ll offer up a few more.

“I’m high as a kite on drugs and so any response I make is likely not well thought out because.....well, I’m out of my mind on crack.”

“F@&K the police! And, f&$k my boss! Nobody tells me what to do.”

“I’m not complying because this guy is white and he cannot tell me what to do because I’m racist and hate white people.”

All other potential thought processes.
It's not made up! Blacks, in general, fear being stopped by police. There is a very high incident of being stopped for
"driving while black".
 
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