F1: 2021/22 Season

ce36ei

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Boys I think we’ve got a championship race on our hands. Can’t wait to watch the onboard of Lewis plowing back from 9th to 2nd after the restart.
It really will be an epic year. It appears Leclerc and Norris will always be battling Checo and Bottas. I fully expect Sainz and Daniel to join that fight once they get completely comfortable, leaving Lewis and Max to go completely 1-1. I really kinda hope Lewis sticks around for a few more years because Max by himself could completely stink up a lot of races in the coming years.
 

Hank Reardon

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Lewis seems more emotionally invested in it to. He was really upset with himself on that mistake. It's rejuvenated him.

I'll take nothing away from Hamilton's drive after the restart, but good god he's the luckiest man in sports. "And what a break for Lewis Hamilton!" must be the most oft uttered phrase in F1 history. It's almost like Bottas got the call..."Lewis is in trouble , we need a red flag NOW!" :rolleyes:

I'm still dying inside for Leclerc who had built that 25 second gap in P2, only to see it vanish with the red flag. Give that kid a decent car.
 

larsIU

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It really will be an epic year. It appears Leclerc and Norris will always be battling Checo and Bottas. I fully expect Sainz and Daniel to join that fight once they get completely comfortable, leaving Lewis and Max to go completely 1-1. I really kinda hope Lewis sticks around for a few more years because Max by himself could completely stink up a lot of races in the coming years.
How good are Norris and the McLaren? I’ve followed Norris for some time. He is talented but I always questioned his need to win. I think that’s becoming sharper. In fact he might even pull off a win this year if max and Lewis wreck each other in a race.
 

larsIU

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I'll take nothing away from Hamilton's drive after the restart, but good god he's the luckiest man in sports. "And what a break for Lewis Hamilton!" must be the most oft uttered phrase in F1 history. It's almost like Bottas got the call..."Lewis is in trouble , we need a red flag NOW!" :rolleyes:

I'm still dying inside for Leclerc who had built that 25 second gap in P2, only to see it vanish with the red flag. Give that kid a decent car.
Leclerc will have a really good car in the next few years. Ferrari don’t stay down for long. Hell they’re miles bette than last year already. I’ll give Hamilton one thing. He may pout but he rarely ever gives up. He could have just said “fu&k it” when he slid off and jacked up his front wing. But he collected himself and stayed in it. You know what they say. Sometimes you create you own luck.
 

ce36ei

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How good are Norris and the McLaren? I’ve followed Norris for some time. He is talented but I always questioned his need to win. I think that’s becoming sharper. In fact he might even pull off a win this year if max and Lewis wreck each other in a race.
Lando has turned into a beast. I really thought he was going to be a really good #2 but I’m pretty sure Mclaren has their guy for the next decade. Gotta be a shock to Daniels system to be drummed like back at Red Bull.
 

Hank Reardon

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Lando has turned into a beast. I really thought he was going to be a really good #2 but I’m pretty sure Mclaren has their guy for the next decade. Gotta be a shock to Daniels system to be drummed like back at Red Bull.
I think it's fantastic to see Norris pounding Ricciardo. I've never been a huge fan of Ricciardo's clown act, and I feel like he thought he was going to walk into McLaren and school the kid. He keeps bouncing from team to team trying to be the man, yet the kids keep kicking his ass.
 

ce36ei

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Good job Seb today! Although starting 10th on softs is a horrible position.

Danny Ric...geezzzz. He’s out to lunch. Good showing from Sainz today. Guarantee McLaren wished he was still there. You couldn’t slide a piece of paper between him and Lando pace wise.
 

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Good job Seb today! Although starting 10th on softs is a horrible position.

Danny Ric...geezzzz. He’s out to lunch. Good showing from Sainz today. Guarantee McLaren wished he was still there. You couldn’t slide a piece of paper between him and Lando pace wise.

One thing the Netflix series has shown about Danny Ric is his massive over-compensation, insecure personality. Might be the Aussie personality amongst the British-dominated sport wearing down on him. I also think he made the mistake of going to Alpine for the $$ and now to McLaren for even more $$.
From what was perceived to be the typical loveable carefree, loud but generally harmless aussie, he is basically been shown to be a mercenary now. Should have shown some loyalty to Renault/Alpine.

Seb seems like an all-around nice guy that just got caught up in the politics and The Appretice management style of Red Bull; and the mess that was Ferrari. Hope he gets to regain some of his lost stature.

I wonder if the reverse-psychology of Mercedes putting RB as the ''clear front-runner'' for this season is starting to affect both RB's management and drivers already. A very jittery lot.
 

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You catch Hamilton’s “Blue Flag?” diss of Perez? Perez is leading as he has not yet boxed, and Hamilton is approaching to pass and asks his engineer, “Blue flag?” Uh, no Lewis. Perez is leading. You must actually race him.

I guess it’s been so long since the 2nd Red Bull had a real driver that Hamilton assumed he was lapping it.
 

sglowrider

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You catch Hamilton’s “Blue Flag?” diss of Perez? Perez is leading as he has not yet boxed, and Hamilton is approaching to pass and asks his engineer, “Blue flag?” Uh, no Lewis. Perez is leading. You must actually race him.

I guess it’s been so long since the 2nd Red Bull had a real driver that Hamilton assumed he was lapping it.

Yah... thought it was funny.

Several things from this race:

1) Never underestimate Zee Chermans. They were caught with their pants down with RB being such a better machine in pre-season. They must have been working 24/7 trying to catch up.
2) Toto Wolfe will probably go down as the best team boss ever. How he keeps everyone on their toes after 7 successful years is nothing to be sneezed at.
3) Maybe Verstapphan isn't as good as he thinks he is. Or he isn't so good as the natural front-runner. Better as the hunter. If he doesn't win this season, it may break him; his self-confidence and especially his aura. The other young guns may not see him as that next natural World Champ. Lando, Russell, LeClerc etc will not be as afraid of him anymore.
4) There is certainly a lot of guile and legs left in the old man. I think RB did him a favour, by giving him some impetus and challenge to prove himself again like some rookie.
5) Bottas -- great technically and thus always good for qualifying. But he's only an above-average racer. But I think Toto knows this and is keeping him around for team harmony only.
 
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larsIU

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3) Maybe Verstapphan isn't as good as he thinks he is. Or he isn't so good as the natural front-runner. Better as the hunter. If he doesn't win this season, it may break him; his self-confidence and especially his aura. The other young guns may not see him as that next natural World Champ. Lando, Russell, LeClerc etc will not be as afraid of him anymore.
4) There is certainly a lot of guile and legs left in the old man. I think RB did him a favour, by giving him some impetus and challenge to prove himself again like some rookie.
5) Bottas -- great technically and thus always good for qualifying. But he's only an above-average racer. But I think Toto knows this and is keeping him around for team harmony only.
I was thinking the same thing about Verstappen. IN the past he's always been able to at least fall back to the position that his car wasn't as good as the Merc and he received so much praise (deservedly so) for keeping things respectable. But now, given what is likely a near equal machine, the weight of expectation might be something new for him. I think he overcomes it.

Hamilton passed Verstappen (classic taking advantage of a mistake), Bottas (what a pass), and Perez (did he think Perez was Albon?) in one race. He's the goat. I read an article recently that he's very much like Schumacher in that he doesn't seem to care too much when his tires start to go off b/c he actually likes a really "loose" car. Doesn't mind sliding around too much. I suspect a lot of the greats are the same way.

Bottas - haha. Russell's taking your spot next year. Have fun at ???????. I honestly don't know where he would end up. Maybe Ricciardo will piss everybody off at McLaren. But then he'd just be 2nd fiddle to Norris.

And speaking of Norris. He may be as good as Verstappen. Excellent racer. Which is something Bottas really isn't.
 
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sglowrider

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You catch Hamilton’s “Blue Flag?” diss of Perez? Perez is leading as he has not yet boxed, and Hamilton is approaching to pass and asks his engineer, “Blue flag?” Uh, no Lewis. Perez is leading. You must actually race him.

I guess it’s been so long since the 2nd Red Bull had a real driver that Hamilton assumed he was lapping it.
The clip:

:):)
 
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ce36ei

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Lando is a stud. I always saw him as a solid #2 but you can see his confidence grow every race. McLaren have a good one. Danny Ric is still broken from Max drubbing him. He (and I) thought he was over that.
 

Hank Reardon

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Lando is a stud. I always saw him as a solid #2 but you can see his confidence grow every race. McLaren have a good one. Danny Ric is still broken from Max drubbing him. He (and I) thought he was over that.

Norris is having a great run so far. I'm quite impressed. I thought the McLaren would be strong but he's really established himself as the solid #5 after the two Mercs and RB's. Riccardo redeemed himself a bit in the race and picked up some points, but Norris is definitely in his head now. I'm not really a Riccardo fan. He has confidence issues (which he tries to hide with the class clown crap) and keeps going to teams where he thinks he'll dominate. Wrong again, Danny.

I'm still bumming over my boy Charles. I think he's a good driver. I'm just not sure he'll ever have the car to show it.
 
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sglowrider

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Norris is having a great run so far. I'm quite impressed. I thought the McLaren would be strong but he's really established himself as the solid #5 after the two Mercs and RB's. Riccardo redeemed himself a bit in the race and picked up some points, but Norris is definitely in his head now. I'm not really a Riccardo fan. He has confidence issues (which he tries to hide with the class clown crap) and keeps going to teams where he thinks he'll dominate. Wrong again, Danny.

I'm still bumming over my boy Charles. I think he's a good driver. I'm just not sure he'll ever have the car to show it.

Race as it happened from a racing driver's perspective:

 
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sglowrider

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I think Toto is placing team harmony over having individuals fighting for the driver's championship. Lessons learned.
But he has to bring in Russell at some point otherwise the likes of Leclerc, Lando, Max etc would have gained valuable experiences from fighting up front rather than just racing against the clock.

Well I think there is zero chance Bottas is replaced mid-season as the article suggests. Seems un-Toto like. As far as Russell and Mercedes goes, I think they need to give him the seat sooner rather than later, or run the risk he'll leave the Mercedes fold. How long can they expect him to stew at Williams? I mean there is no guarantee that Mercede's dominance will continue, so if 2022 comes around and he's still facing another stint at Williams, maybe Russell decides he's had enough and takes a look at another seat.

I do wonder how much Hamilton has to do with it. I know you're a Hamilton fan, but it would not surprise me to learn that Hamilton has something to do with Russell not being in the second seat today. I don't think Hamilton wants a teammate that will cause him too much trouble.
 

sglowrider

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Well I think there is zero chance Bottas is replaced mid-season as the article suggests. Seems un-Toto like. As far as Russell and Mercedes goes, I think they need to give him the seat sooner rather than later, or run the risk he'll leave the Mercedes fold. How long can they expect him to stew at Williams? I mean there is no guarantee that Mercede's dominance will continue, so if 2022 comes around and he's still facing another stint at Williams, maybe Russell decides he's had enough and takes a look at another seat.

I do wonder how much Hamilton has to do with it. I know you're a Hamilton fan, but it would not surprise me to learn that Hamilton has something to do with Russell not being in the second seat today. I don't think Hamilton wants a teammate that will cause him too much trouble.

I think Russell got a talking by toto on crash with Bottas. Knocked him down a peg or two based on the pre-race interview I saw with him and Lando. Wasn't as cocky as normal. Lando was the 'man' in that interview pairing.
Maybe it's conditional on how Russell will get the 2nd seat at Merc.
 

larsIU

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Well I think there is zero chance Bottas is replaced mid-season as the article suggests. Seems un-Toto like. As far as Russell and Mercedes goes, I think they need to give him the seat sooner rather than later, or run the risk he'll leave the Mercedes fold. How long can they expect him to stew at Williams? I mean there is no guarantee that Mercede's dominance will continue, so if 2022 comes around and he's still facing another stint at Williams, maybe Russell decides he's had enough and takes a look at another seat.

I do wonder how much Hamilton has to do with it. I know you're a Hamilton fan, but it would not surprise me to learn that Hamilton has something to do with Russell not being in the second seat today. I don't think Hamilton wants a teammate that will cause him too much trouble.
I tend to agree. Bottas ain't going anywhere this year. On the Hamilton side, he's earned it right? Kind of like Schumacher. Mercedes really don't need a repeat of 2015/2016 with their drivers wrecking each other.

I think Russell comes over next year. I don't think Hamilton is all that frightened by him. I also think George will be told he's the #2 until Lewis retires/leaves.
 
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ce36ei

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I really think George is being neutered by Merc like someone said. I’d rank Lando above him at this point. If he wins that race, whole different story. F1 has such a mental head game to it. Now the crash, and he’s got a pattern of going backwards in every single race...that stuff gives you head worms.
 

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I tend to agree. Bottas ain't going anywhere this year. On the Hamilton side, he's earned it right? Kind of like Schumacher. Mercedes really don't need a repeat of 2015/2016 with their drivers wrecking each other.

I think Russell comes over next year. I don't think Hamilton is all that frightened by him. I also think George will be told he's the #2 until Lewis retires/leaves.

I don't think it's a case of Hamilton being frightened by Russell. I think it's more like Hamilton liking they dynamic of where the team is with Bottas. A different teammate with different goals like Russell upsets the balance, and I don't think Lewis would care for that.

Now whether Lewis has the juice (or the desire) to put the skids on a Russell promotion, who knows?
 
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sglowrider

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Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Lewis is an alien. Nothing more can be said.
I think the emergence of the RB platform has awoken his physical senses and more importantly his competitive juices.

I mean, most of us watch it from a macro level since no one will understand the level of complexity that's required to drive these supreme machines.
This is why I like listening to the guys to understand the nuances that required to shave off a millisecond or two.

That's what it means for Lewis, extracting a few milliseconds out of himself to compete against currently, a better machine.


Yesterday I learnt about Merc 'curing' the scuffed (previously lightly used) tires in preparation for the main race. by running it a few rounds during quali and re-heating the Pirelli tires.

This is like 3D chess management with so many moving goalposts.

Then repeat & rinse again for another track next weekend -- with different track characteristics and conditions.
 
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sglowrider

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They’re a sitting duck without a 2nd car. Looking back you wonder just where RB would be if they had paid Danny some big money.
It must be crushing psychologically for RB. And max must be wondering if he will ever win the WC. Macleran Ferrari are definitely on the upswing.
 

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They’re a sitting duck without a 2nd car. Looking back you wonder just where RB would be if they had paid Danny some big money.

It wasn't money for Ricciardo. He couldn't deal with the prospect of being #2 to Max, which I'm sure was not what he expected when Max showed up.

It must be crushing psychologically for RB. And max must be wondering if he will ever win the WC. Macleran Ferrari are definitely on the upswing.
I have to partially place the blame on RB. Where anyone seems to be able to drive the second Mercedes fast, not so the Red Bull. I don't know if the car is simply set up too uniquely for Max, or if the car is just that difficult to drive in general and Max is just that good. But for whatever reason they are now three drivers in since Ricciardo left and none have helped Max at all. Is it the car? Is it Red Bull's tendency to jettison drivers so quickly that the #2 driver never gets settled? I don't know, but once enough drivers occupy that #2 seat and fail to help you need to start looking at the seat, not the drivers. I tend to think that RB is a bit of a dickish organization internally (Marko), and unless you're Max, you're probably looking over your shoulder constantly.

I'm beginning to wonder if anyone besides Hamilton will win the WDC, until such time that Hamilton hangs it up. The Hamilton/Mercedes dominance is overwhelming.
 
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sglowrider

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I have to partially place the blame on RB. Where anyone seems to be able to drive the second Mercedes fast, not so the Red Bull. I don't know if the car is simply set up too uniquely for Max, or if the car is just that difficult to drive in general and Max is just that good. But for whatever reason they are now three drivers in since Ricciardo left and none have helped Max at all. Is it the car? Is it Red Bull's tendency to jettison drivers so quickly that the #2 driver never gets settled? I don't know, but once enough drivers occupy that #2 seat and fail to help you need to start looking at the seat, not the drivers. I tend to think that RB is a bit of a dickish organization internally (Marko), and unless you're Max, you're probably looking over your shoulder constantly.

I'm beginning to wonder if anyone besides Hamilton will win the WDC, until such time that Hamilton hangs it up. The Hamilton/Mercedes dominance is overwhelming.
I think the Netflix series gave a good look into how they are. Great for TV viewing but not sure that's how they teach organisational management at Kelly.

If I was the RB owners, I would have some serious thoughts now whether Marko and Horner need some ''fresh eyes'' inserted into the team ASAP --- especially in view of the fact that they are about to plough in some serious money into their new (Honda) 'engines' division.

Mercedes is slow dismantling RB's confidence piece by piece.

First, it was driver skills in the earlier races and yesterday it was pure team strategic intelligence and guile -- and it takes a team to sure victory with Bottas playing the blocker.

I mean, everyone knew Merc had pulled off the same approach only like 18months earlier in Hungary. Feck they even said so on the radio -- ''remember Hungary, Lewis!'' Ballsy approach nevertheless -- to play the long game and wait for the last few laps to make their move.

Max always said that if he had a better car then he would be beating Lewis in every race.

Well, his comments last night is starting to show both a sense of inevitability and also an appreciation of how good Lewis is in his eyes.

Max has to be wondering if Horner's The Apprentice approach to team management is the right approach. And also re-look at himself if he has to make some compromises if he wants to win the Driver's Championship.

As you said earlier, RB designed a car that suits Max, the 2nd driver has to adapt to the car.
Perez even said he has to change his driving style or copy how Max drives -- that tells you that the car is specifically built for Max.
That strategy clearly advantages Max but disadvantages the 2nd Redbull driver.
If RB will not consistently have the 2nd driver to help block for Max, they should at least have re-look their general approach -- or I would if I am the owner of RB.

Merc on the other hand builds the fastest, adaptable car they can. That is why when Russell got in it last year, he drove it well almost immediately.

Redbull has put all their eggs into the Max wagon, but that will cost them many races as shown last night.

A 'superstar' model every the 'team' approach.

But RB may be thinking like everyone else, 'just you wait till next year when the new rules kick in.'

Having said that, its only 14 points between them -- one race can change all that. If it's nip and tuck for a good while then it will cost both teams in terms of next year's car development.
Ferrari has already said 95% of their resources are committed to the 2022 car.
 
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Hank Reardon

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I think the Netflix series gave a good look into how they are. Great for TV viewing but not sure that's how they teach organisational management at Kelly.

If I was the RB owners, I would have some serious thoughts now whether Marko and Horner need some ''fresh eyes'' inserted into the team ASAP --- especially in view of the fact that they are about to plough in some serious money into their new (Honda) 'engines' division.

Mercedes is slow dismantling RB's confidence piece by piece.

First, it was driver skills in the earlier races and yesterday it was pure team strategic intelligence and guile -- and it takes a team to sure victory with Bottas playing the blocker.

I mean, everyone knew Merc had pulled off the same approach only like 18months earlier in Hungary. Feck they even said so on the radio -- ''remember Hungary, Lewis!'' Ballsy approach nevertheless -- to play the long game and wait for the last few laps to make their move.

Max always said that if he had a better car then he would be beating Lewis in every race.

Well, his comments last night is starting to show both a sense of inevitability and also an appreciation of how good Lewis is in his eyes.

Max has to be wondering if Horner's The Apprentice approach to team management is the right approach. And also re-look at himself if he has to make some compromises if he wants to win the Driver's Championship.

As you said earlier, RB designed a car that suits Max, the 2nd driver has to adapt to the car.
Perez even said he has to change his driving style or copy how Max drives -- that tells you that the car is specifically built for Max.
That strategy clearly advantages Max but disadvantages the 2nd Redbull driver.
If RB will not consistently have the 2nd driver to help block for Max, they should at least have re-look their general approach -- or I would if I am the owner of RB.

Merc on the other hand builds the fastest, adaptable car they can. That is why when Russell got in it last year, he drove it well almost immediately.

Redbull has put all their eggs into the Max wagon, but that will cost them many races as shown last night.

A 'superstar' model every the 'team' approach.

But RB may be thinking like everyone else, 'just you wait till next year when the new rules kick in.'

Pretty much have to agree with all of that.

"How far have I to catch him?"

 
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larsIU

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I mean 22 seconds!! The level of confidence! Can you imagine the other drivers hearing that? 22 seconds and they think they can win?

I love Bono, Mister Cucumber.
22 seconds and boxed him when he was within DRS range. GTFOH. That level of trust in Hamilton by Toto is ridiculous. And completely warranted.
 

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22 seconds and boxed him when he was within DRS range. GTFOH. That level of trust in Hamilton by Toto is ridiculous. And completely warranted.

I know. Any other team would have gone for the jugular or make up for the diff as soon as possible. But they planned for like 15-20 laps ahead!
The Barcelona race wasn't about driving, it was quite different in that it was about the team and the strategists. They know Lewis' capability and planned accordingly.