Et tu, KU?
- Thread starter HillzHoozier
- Start date
IU did it to themselves for the phone calls. IU doing IU things.
Right I hope every school that allowed agents to pay players under the table burns. It should be a fair process and no one should be let off the hook.
Signed,
Troy Williams and Thomas Bryant.
Woah woah WOAH...hold the phone. This is very realistic and unbiased of you. Are you ok? What happened to your hypocrisy?
Everyone in this thread making allegations about Vonleh, Bryant, etc. with no hard evidence to back it up need to immediately stop slamming Dakich for the things he insinuated about Langford and his dad. Same logic...
The NCAA does not slaughter their cash cows.
IU taught all of these schools a great lesson. Only amateur 'cheaters' self report.
IU taught all of these schools a great lesson. Only amateur 'cheaters' self report.
The NCAA also seems to have an "Adidas" problem. As much as I despise Pitino and Self, I understand their outrage and defiance. UofL and Kansas have to be wondering why they're getting the hammer brought down while the academic fiasco at UNC, bogus high school transcripts with UK signees, and the Duke shenanigans with Zion's recruitment (among other things) have been conveniently swept under the rug. After all, as one of the implicated Adidas "handlers" stated to investigators, they weren't recruiting against themselves.
I'm not sure the NCAA wants to jump into a court battle with schools who can make a pretty good case for selective enforcement.
Do you all remember how blinded to the truth this board was back when Crean and Kenny Johnson were running things? Tom Crean hung the moon and his assistants were all saints. Everyone else are cheaters I tell you!
Exactly why Louisville said they would push back. IU showed how not to do it
Every school self reports every year. That wasn’t the issue with IU. It was hiring a known cheater over the none too subtle objections of the NCAA and then monitoring him so poorly that he violated the same rules he broke at OU. IU begged to get busted, and they did. Self-reporting May have been the only thing that saved them from more harsh treatment.
This isn’t selective enforcement against Adidas, as Arizona and USC can attest.
He made extra effort to avoid and hide the specific restrictions placed on him just to be a little more specific about his transgressions
That is correct, as is the fact that IU’s compliance efforts were so exacting that that it took an intern to crack the code and discover that he was still breaking the rules. Oh, and then it took IU several months to do anything about it. Blaming “self-reporting” for IU’s troubles is like blaming your umbrella for the rain showers.
And in the end, the specific players Sampson brought in with all his calls were what crushed our program. The penalties that were imposed weren’t what caused Creans first two rosters.
IU’s lack of thoughtful leadership and stewardship over the last two plus decades have caused the basketball program to sink into mediocrity. Forget two seasons . . . it’s been over 20 years.
Crean must have been as bad at cheating as he was at coaching. Only could get one real PG the entire time he was here and couldn't recruit in state after Yogi.
You mean posters on an Indiana free board backed their current coach at the time, surely you jest?
Did you know water is wet?
Davis and Sampson hires were bad, and for sure are strong evidence of a lack of thoughtful leadership. The list of marquee names that could have become very successful post Knight isn’t only a couple names.
I don’t know who was/would have been interested when we hired Crean...he may have been as good as we could get at the time? I was never a fan of his, so I would have hired Stevens as soon as it was obvious he was special. And yes, I would have done so even though Crean was doing well at the time too. And I said so many times.
I hope they got it right with Archie. We’ve gone round and round on it. I agree with you that the program had fallen far enough that 1)we weren’t getting a Donovan or Stevens when hiring Archie 2)it was gonna have to be completely rebuilt.
My view is Archie just chose not to burn the house down for his rebuild. We’ll see whether what he’s built is all that strong in the next couple years. I agree with you for most of the last 20 years. I’m hopeful Archie was a good hire though.
If Crean and his staff paid to get players, thus cheated, then they couldn’t even do that right. That sums up the last 25 years of IU basketball if true.
So, if it was going to need to be completely rebuilt, why didn’t Miller choose to completely rebuild it?
Maybe he did? His style and Creans couldn’t possibly be more different. So it was going to take time for inherited players to adapt. Despite that, maybe he thought it better to use the materials that were left to him, along with adding his own over time. Or maybe he was told he couldn’t burn the house down like Crean did?
But he kept certain players that clearly weren’t good fits, so he didn’t rebuild it. Knowing that it was a complete rebuild, doing something partially didn’t advance the program, it set it back.
personally i like house flies they don’t bite or carry as many diseases as horse flies
No, it’s not. He kept guys he shouldn’t have, and it set the program back. That’s not completely rebuilding at all.
Don’t know that he set it back.
Who should he specifically have gotten rid of? He inherited a bunch of seniors, Juwan Morgan, Walkons, Sophomore Devonte and Deron, and Freshmen Al, Justin, and Clifton Moore.
Rob Johnson and Colin Hartman were good leaders and solid B10 level players. And I don’t see why either of them wouldn’t be decent for his style and program. Other than it would be tough for anyone to play 3 years of Crean ball, and flip to Archie ball. So I say keeping them was a no brainer.
Priller? Probably...he shouldn’t have been there in the first place. Could he have replaced him with someone that late in the game that might be contributing by now? Guessing he didn’t think so?
Morgan...fits anyone’s program. No brainer keeping him.
McRoberts...long, athletic, played hard. Should have fit in well in Archies system. Not sure I’d have canned him. Definitely not a no brainer.
Devonte and Deron. Here’s where I might have pushed someone out if I were him. Deron was obviously not suited to Archies system. And Devonte didn’t ever buy in. Deron was a good locker room guy though, and a serviceable big, on a team that had no size. And we all know the Devonte paradigm. I’d have moved on Devonte maybe...very difficult to move on a top 50 level big when you don’t have any other bigs.
Al and Justin both fit Archies style very well. Als fairly long for the combo guard position, plays hard, etc... and Justin appeared to be the prototypical pack line, athletic forward. Both made very big strides this past year, to the point where each were solid B10 players. It just took them a year longer than it should. But all in all, I’m glad they stayed and Archie kept them.
Moore he ended up moving on...guessing when Archie felt he had made some more progress recruiting, and after the ship had passed on whether he’d be a good long big in his program.
I believe he picked up Race on his own??
So for me, Devonte and Priller from what he inherited. The rest...nah. And I’m ok with the more stable approach. We might be a year or so behind being a sweet 16 level team, than if he had moved on a couple kids, AND hit on who he replaced them with. But I think we’re still on the same track to establish ourselves as a reliable sweet sixteen program. And a big part of that has been his approach to making sure class sizes stay even.
Green and Hartman, certainly. One never bought in and the other was a borderline Big Ten player when healthy. Coming off an injury, he wasn’t close. I get Davis because you needed baseline bodies and Durham was athletic, bit he never really has bought in, either. Priller? No. And then there were recruiting reaches like Forrester that never, ever should’ve been brought in. So, yeah, he set it back by not rebuilding from the beginning. A S16 team? How about he get to .500 and top half in the conference first. They aren’t close to that, yet.
One of the worst summaries I’ve ever seen on this board...
Have you ever watched a game, read an article, talked to an IU fan?
Lots of crazy in that post...
The way I read this you’d get rid of Hartman, but keep Priller?! Assume you mean get rid of Priller too. I think it’s obvious Archie played the long game on this, and chose to start establishing real, solid, good relationships with Indiana high school and AAU people. Canning Hartman, coming off an injury might have damaged that effort. Though I seem to remember Hartman actually needed convincing to play...as he was already graduated and engaged. Guessing Archie felt like he wanted Colins leadership to get his program going.
And the type of kids Archie was likely to get for the Prillers and Hartmans, anyone he would have bumped that year, likely would have been more of a reach than a Forrester type kid. Though Jake has actually done well at his next stop. No coach hits on all their recruits. And we know Archie isn’t like Crean with his Schollies. He’ll bank them before reaching on someone. Hindsight is always 20/20.
If he had blown it up, and won 5 or so games less his first couple seasons as a result, you’d be using that as a reason to question him now.
Ad I’ve mentioned before, you’re not nuanced. You aren’t seeing the improvements and what he’s building. You either don’t know, or don’t understand the principles, personnel, and complete buy in it takes to build a successful pack line program. It doesn’t happen overnight. Never has for any pack line coach. When they get there, if they’ve done a good job establishing a reliable roster, they’ll stay there...a la Wisconsin and Virginia.
I think we’re now either there, or knocking on the door of being there. And 10 years from now we’ll look back and be very happy with this next decade of IU basketball.
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