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Education

A), the payout, both economic and personal, is greater with college than K-12.

if you don't think someone without the financial ability or desire for lifetime massive debt might be motivated to do better in school, if doing so led to free college for the good, but non top of the class academic scholly possibility student, then we'll disagree on that, as i think it absolutely would.

B), being they are by you "endless", surely you can do better than that, as for "innovation" possibilities.

and what is a Spanish immersion school, and why is it it better than what public schools offer?

My grandkids went to public school.

"what is a Spanish immersion school?" Seriously?
 
Basil Hayden was speaking on my behalf last night. ;)

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My grandkids went to public school.

"what is a Spanish immersion school?" Seriously?

Do you think it matters that your grandkids' immersion school was a Charter vs. Public? I'm asking because we have an option to send our kids to an immersion program through our public school district.
 
Do you think it matters that your grandkids' immersion school was a Charter vs. Public? I'm asking because we have an option to send our kids to an immersion program through our public school district.

The charter school my grandkids attended is a public school. The difference is not necessarily charter or non-charter. Rather the difference is the amount of autonomy the school has. In the school my grandkids attended the autonomy included being able to hire staff outside of the system, (important because Spanish speaking teachers who can teach math an science are not easily found) being able to set their own calendar, and probably a host of other things i don't know about. A board of directos hired the staff and managed the school and budget. Throughout their primary education, my grandkids had teachers from Spain, Mexico, Argentina, and Venezuela. Spanish is not the same in each of those places. The emphasis was to teach Castilian Spanish.

FWIW, I think the immersion school starting in kindergarten is an excellent primary education.
 
You mean the conversation in which you threw a tantrum and deleted all your posts, only to slink back in and admit that Noodle and I were right all along? That conversation?

That would be the one.

That is where you and Noodle implied that charter schools are somehow different from public schools ("Traditional" public schools can be a charter and non-traditional public schools need not be a charter.) and that a magnet school is a public school and not a charter. A magnet school can be a charter school as the I explained.

I threw the bone after reviewing an unidentified webpage that looked like it was the NEA view of the world.
 
The case against charter schools is collapsing. (Read the whole thing)

The link is to a book review of Thomas Sowell's most recent book Charter Schools and Their Enemies. The review points out how charter schools are out-performing traditional public schools with almost every measure. The GOP are the real progressives when it comes to education. Betsy DeVos' goals about more school innovation through alternatives to traditional public ed needs to be encouraged instead of ridiculed. The emphasis on alternatives seems to provide much more bang for the buck than GWB's No Child Left Behind program. Yet the charter approach is under severe attack and viciously resisted--by progressives! The resistance is centered on more of the same and the only innovation is demands for yet more money.

There is, as one would expect, significant variability in the performance of the charter schools, just as there is significant variability in the performance of the conventional public schools. (And here it bears underscoring: Charter schools are public schools, publicly funded and serving public-school students; the difference is that charter schools are relieved of some of the constraints imposed on conventional schools by public-sector unions, their financial interests, and the political interests built atop those financial interests.) In almost every case, the charter schools — including the worst of them — outperformed the conventional public schools operating in the same buildings, in the same neighborhoods, serving very similar students. In most cases, the share of charter-school students achieving proficiency or better on standardized tests was a multiple of the number of the conventional public-school students doing so; similarly, in most cases the number of conventional public-school students receiving the lowest classification on those same tests was some multiple of the number of charter-school students doing so. Sowell lets the data speak for themselves, reporting the high and low English and math figures for each of his comparison sets.


 
https://www.newsweek.com/charter-schools-vs-public-schools-funding-test-scores-performance-1461659

"In 2017, at grades 4 and 8, no measurable differences in average reading and mathematics scores on the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) were observed between students in traditional public and public charter schools," the "School Choice in the United States: 2019" report found.​

Did you read the link? Your point is misleading and it is addressed.
 
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Did you read the link? Your point is misleading and it is addressed.

Your link in its haste to criticize neglects the big difference. You and I have to put together a basketball team, you have to take anyone and play them. Players have to actually choose to apply to be on my team. If I have problems with players, I get to kick them out and send them to your team and you have to keep them and play them. Whose team will be better?

I used to frequently have lunch with a guy who was a school super in Honolulu and Cape Girardeau. He was working for IU and would visit classrooms to see what was happening in the world. He was at an elementary school which had a developmentally disabled student. The student would frequently act up, and would require several teachers to calm them down. No learning could happen in that room or the adjacent rooms where teachers responded from until the situation was controlled.

Your charter school could boot them, a traditional public cannot. https://www.civilrightsproject.ucla...ed students,group at each grade configuration.

  • The 20 highest-suspending charter schools in 2011-12 all suspended more than two- thirds of their student body at least once; all but six of these schools had Black enrollment greater than 50%.
  • ŸŸ At 484 charter schools, the suspension rate for students with disabilities was 20 percentage points higher than for those without disabilities.
  • ŸŸ Racial disparities in Black and White charter students’ suspension rates were found to be quite large at both the elementary and secondary school levels; however, the 6.4 percentage point Black-White discipline gap at the elementary level more than doubled to 16.4 points at the secondary level.
  • Charter schools consistently suspended students with disabilities at a higher rate than non-charters; the rate was 15.5% for charters, compared with 13.7% for non- charters.
Charter schools can work to make sure underpermers leave and are not scored against them. Traditional public cannot.
 
Indeed I was. Your eye was off the ball. Of all the things we should be doing with education, the 1619 project is way down the list. If the NYT really wants to do good with Black education, it needs to focus on the kind of future we are building, not bitching about the past. If white supremacy is a thing, it’s directly connected to the fact that white kids can read and do math better than Black kids coming out of school. We don’t fix that with the 1619 project.

You seem to suggest that the 1619 Project is "Black education". If that's your belief, I suspect that is part of the problem that the 1619 Project was seeking to address. It addressed that issue imperfectly, but that doesn't make it unimportant.
 
Your link in its haste to criticize neglects the big difference. You and I have to put together a basketball team, you have to take anyone and play them. Players have to actually choose to apply to be on my team. If I have problems with players, I get to kick them out and send them to your team and you have to keep them and play them. Whose team will be better?

I used to frequently have lunch with a guy who was a school super in Honolulu and Cape Girardeau. He was working for IU and would visit classrooms to see what was happening in the world. He was at an elementary school which had a developmentally disabled student. The student would frequently act up, and would require several teachers to calm them down. No learning could happen in that room or the adjacent rooms where teachers responded from until the situation was controlled.

Your charter school could boot them, a traditional public cannot. https://www.civilrightsproject.ucla.edu/resources/projects/center-for-civil-rights-remedies/school-to-prison-folder/federal-reports/charter-schools-civil-rights-and-school-discipline-a-comprehensive-review#:~:text=Charter schools consistently suspended students,group at each grade configuration.

  • The 20 highest-suspending charter schools in 2011-12 all suspended more than two- thirds of their student body at least once; all but six of these schools had Black enrollment greater than 50%.
  • ŸŸ At 484 charter schools, the suspension rate for students with disabilities was 20 percentage points higher than for those without disabilities.
  • ŸŸ Racial disparities in Black and White charter students’ suspension rates were found to be quite large at both the elementary and secondary school levels; however, the 6.4 percentage point Black-White discipline gap at the elementary level more than doubled to 16.4 points at the secondary level.
  • Charter schools consistently suspended students with disabilities at a higher rate than non-charters; the rate was 15.5% for charters, compared with 13.7% for non- charters.
Charter schools can work to make sure underpermers leave and are not scored against them. Traditional public cannot.

The big difference is that parents have to choose to send their youngsters to charter schools. That might or might not explain the difference in performance. I suspect that it has some influence but not totally explanatory.

Charters operate differently in different systems. In the one I am most familiar with, expulsions from charter and traditional school are pretty much for the same reasons. The District had a separate non-traditional school for expelled students.

The link pointed out that the majority of charter schools students are black and Hispanic. I didn't know that. It also noted that the disparity in performance between minorities and whites was less in a charter.

Edit: I don't agree with your point about a charter being able to boot students with disabilities. The percentages you cite are substantially the same. Charters must comply with IDEA.
 
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You seem to suggest that the 1619 Project is "Black education". If that's your belief, I suspect that is part of the problem that the 1619 Project was seeking to address. It addressed that issue imperfectly, but that doesn't make it unimportant.

I'm not sure what you mean by "black education". I'd agree if you really mean education about blacks. I tried to make quite clear that education about history (including black history) and other non-stem disciplines are not unimportant. My point is that if we expect to reduce the achievement gaps in abilities to read and do math, we can't get there with projects like the 1619 project.
 
The big difference is that parents have to choose to send their youngsters to charter schools. That might or might not explain the difference in performance. I suspect that it has some influence but not totally explanatory.

It does.

Kids who have parents who are willing to take the time to read and fill out charter or magnet paperwork are already at a huge advantage before they even walk through the doors.
 
The big difference is that parents have to choose to send their youngsters to charter schools. That might or might not explain the difference in performance. I suspect that it has

Going back to this, I have no idea how much self-selection impacts performance but it certainly does. We know from the military. One had to self-select in W×2 to be airborne or Marine. Both enjoyed a better reputation than standard army. No offense meant to the army. It was like that for other nations as well.

I agree with the left that where police unions block any needed police reforms, the union needs to stand aside. I also agree with that in education for the exact same reason. At the same point it is a tired trope to reflexively blame unions.

Creating a charter school and pulling out a thousand is good (assuming it works, there are charter school failures). But the question remains, what do we do with the two thousand kids that either do not self-select or are booted from the charter?
 
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I'm not sure what you mean by "black education". I'd agree if you really mean education about blacks. I tried to make quite clear that education about history (including black history) and other non-stem disciplines are not unimportant. My point is that if we expect to reduce the achievement gaps in abilities to read and do math, we can't get there with projects like the 1619 project.

What did you mean by "Black education"? I was responding to your post that used that phrase. Can you clarify?
 
From the WSJ last week: "Schools Warn of Severe Budget Shortfall". It's a news story suggesting that public schools face ruin without more federal aid. From the article: "academic officials are warning that vast budget shortfalls will further strain their districts unless Democrats and Republicans break their impasse on a new coronavirus-relief package."
 
From the WSJ last week: "Schools Warn of Severe Budget Shortfall". It's a news story suggesting that public schools face ruin without more federal aid. From the article: "academic officials are warning that vast budget shortfalls will further strain their districts unless Democrats and Republicans break their impasse on a new coronavirus-relief package."
I see the future of education in private educational institutions. this news confirms my assumptions. I believe that the level of education directly affects the further development of a career, because the foundation that is laid during the study at a college or university in one way or another affects the formation of goals in later life and career. That is why it seems to me right now it is very important to invest in the development of private quality education, which will be available to many gifted children. This is proved by various scientific studies. High-quality and professionally written essays on various topics, including a career - https://samplius.com/free-essay-examples/career-goals/ Professional scientists and writers with higher education write texts.
 
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The idea of a charter in and if itself is not progressive. The innovation that charters encourage are where progressive ideas are found.

I have no clue why you have a hard on for DeVos. She has been focused on innovation at every turn. The only way you can legitimately think she is an unmitigated disaster is if you are married to the status quo. The status quo is an unmitigated disaster.

Edit: moreover DeVos ended the kangaroo courts about sexual offenses in higher ed. That is a very good thing.
I know you have discussed Critical Race Theory multiple times. The push to require its teaching in home schools or private schools will be next on the agenda. Or abolishing them. There are "smart" people who believe private and home schools shouldn't exist.
 
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To be honest, I don't think that we should worry about this. There is the same educational system in all states. Obviously, the book authors will be the same. As a teacher at the https://www.mku.ac.ke university, I can tell you that the pupils from all over the country should learn by the same books. This is my opinion, obviously. But I will really like to hear your thoughts about this subject. If you are interested in discussing this, just leave me a message. Wish you a good day, guys.
 
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Rachel Maddow had a segment on the Tulsa Race Massacre of 1921 with some amazing details from first-hand eyewitness acounts. Included in the organized terror campaign were aerial fire bombings, where planes were dropping flaming petroleum bombs onto the roofs of churches, schools, libraries, and homes in the black neighborhood.

The scale of all of this, and the way the retelling was then surgically removed (thankfully, imperfectly) from our history teachings should shame us all.

Granted, it may not be as important as teaching literacy and math skills, but work it in, alongside the teaching of other aspects of American history. I mean, even before there was a movie, do you think more people know about the sinking of the Titanic or the Tulsa Race Massacre?
 
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Rachel Maddow had a segment on the Tulsa Race Massacre of 1921 with some amazing details from first-hand eyewitness acounts. Included in the organized terror campaign were aerial fire bombings, where planes were dropping flaming petroleum bombs onto the roofs of churches, schools, libraries, and homes in the black neighborhood.

The scale of all of this, and the way the retelling was then surgically removed (thankfully, imperfectly) from our history teachings should shame us all.

Granted, it may not be as important as teaching literacy and math skills, but work it in, alongside the teaching of other aspects of American history. I mean, even before there was a movie, do you think more people know about the sinking of the Titanic or the Tulsa Race Massacre?

How many kids didn't learn anything over the past year?
 

How many kids didn't learn anything over the past year?
We'll find out soon enough. I'll bet it's a bunch. People might remember I advocated for everyone taking a gap year instead of doing the virtual learning theater thing.
 

How many kids didn't learn anything over the past year?

The article said 10%, that may be the number who attend class and never pay any attention. Or worse, distract others from paying attention.

I do not doubt this was bad, especially for elementary age. But I don't know when we will know how bad.

For younger kids it may have been better to just buy iPad grade appropriate learning games. Those things seem to work
 
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The article said 10%, that may be the number who attend class and never pay any attention. Or worse, distract others from paying attention.

I do not doubt this was bad, especially for elementary age. But I don't know when we will know how bad.

For younger kids it may have been better to just buy iPad grade appropriate learning games. Those things seem to work


You're Welcome, America
 
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A Tennessee state rep argued the 3/5ths law was purposely designed to strangle slavery and end it. Hmm, should we teach that history correctly, not at all, or lie about it?

 
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That's always been the case. It's one reason that history textbooks downplayed the impact of slavery on the runup to the Civil War. The textbook publishers had to tailor their offerings to large southern buyers, Texas in particular.
There have also been multiple versions of science books that varied as to the teaching of evolution.
 
How long will you argue, guys ... Everyone has their own opinion on this matter. But personally, I think that children from every state should learn from the same books, otherwise it looks like some kind of racism, which is in no way acceptable in America! When my son needed to buy a research paper, we were advised this service https://paperell.com/pay-for-research-papers, the prices for which are absolutely the same for students from any state, as it should be, but as we already know far not everyone works this way. And all due to the fact that their main goal is to help students, and it does not matter to them what color your skin is or where you were born, all in equal conditions.
So I take it this forum has finally hit the big time now that we are getting Spam posts.
 
The issue of education is very acute for me now. For the sake of a simple curriculum, I'm even ready to move to any state. My friends shared their experience about academic problems and about the company nursingpaper.com in case these problems need to be solved quickly. But I am rapidly determined to acquire knowledge on my own, which is why I find fault with the curriculum. I would be very grateful if I find here good advice regarding universities.
 
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Interesting discussion. Here you can find answers to my questions about education
Are the bots starting to impersonate us now? Is this 21st century Invasion of the Bodysnatchers or something?
 
Are the bots starting to impersonate us now? Is this 21st century Invasion of the Bodysnatchers or something?
Honestly the bots posts are often better than the regulars. Lately I’ve found myself looking for their fresh takes. This new angle of creative naming is kind of neat too
 
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