Donald Trump: the 21st century’s Martin Luther?

[BradStevens]

I just listened to the epic, 5-part pod on Martin Luther and the beginning of the Reformation. It’s the best yet from the excellent The Rest is History.

The parallels between the uproar in 16th century Europe and now are pretty incredible. And Luther was at the center of it. Episodes 3-5 talk the most about the parallels with the present and there is an awful lot of information about how people behave in these that is very relevant to today.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

I just listened to the epic, 5-part pod on Martin Luther and the beginning of the Reformation. It’s the best yet from the excellent The Rest is History.

The parallels between the uproar in 16th century Europe and now are pretty incredible. And Luther was at the center of it. Episodes 3-5 talk the most about the parallels with the present and there are an awful lot of information about how people behave in these that is very relevant to today.

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Orville redenbacker in the microwave…
Gonna be epic. I can use a liberal forehead to soften my garlic butter.

Ready set to!!

 

[snarlcakes]

I just listened to the epic, 5-part pod on Martin Luther and the beginning of the Reformation. It’s the best yet from the excellent The Rest is History.

The parallels between the uproar in 16th century Europe and now are pretty incredible. And Luther was at the center of it. Episodes 3-5 talk the most about the parallels with the present and there are an awful lot of information about how people behave in these that is very relevant to today.

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Which episode talks about Bitcoin? In all seriousness, I’m convinced, it’s always about the money. Civilizations thrive and die because of the economy/money or lack there of it. Does any of the episodes focus on the economy/money?

 

[outside shooter]

Feels more like 1936

 

[BradStevens]

Which episode talks about Bitcoin? In all seriousness, I’m convinced, it’s always about the money. Civilizations thrive and die because of the money or lack there of it. Does any of the episodes focus on the economy/money?

Indulgences at the time were driven by economics. Part 2 covers that I believe. That led directly to the posting of the 95 theses. They were particularly needed to (1) rebuild St Peter’s Cathedral and (2) pay back the banking titans for a loan made to a young guy who wanted to buy a 3rd bishopric.

 

[BradStevens]

 

[BradStevens]

 

[BradStevens]

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I just listened to the epic, 5-part pod on Martin Luther and the beginning of the Reformation. It’s the best yet from the excellent The Rest is History.

The parallels between the uproar in 16th century Europe and now are pretty incredible. And Luther was at the center of it. Episodes 3-5 talk the most about the parallels with the present and there is an awful lot of information about how people behave in these that is very relevant to today.

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There are few times where an individual standing on conviction changes the arc of history with words. Martin Luther was one.

 

[mcmurtry66]

There are few times where an individual standing on conviction changes the arc of history with words. Martin Luther was one.

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Absolutely. Until trump I wondered if we’d ever again see a politician who ran on principles and conviction. A man who put his beliefs, faith, and values first. It’s not surprising so many miss it. It’s basically foreign to most candidates

 

[NewGuyToTheBoard]

Martin Luther is the one that first turned away from the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. He is likely suffering in eternity for it as the rest of the protestants have and will.

 

[BradStevens]

Martin Luther is the one that first* turned away from the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. He is likely suffering in eternity for it as the rest of the protestants have and will.

*No, he wasn't.

 

[BradStevens]

Absolutely. Until trump I wondered if we’d ever again see a politician who ran on principles and conviction. A man who put his beliefs, faith, and values first. It’s not surprising so many miss it. It’s basically foreign to most candidates

I found this. Not a new take, apparently:

Martin Luther Was the Donald Trump of 1517

If the leader of the Reformation could have tweeted the 95 theses, he would have. And he was no slouch at locker room talk, either.

foreignpolicy.com

 

[mcmurtry66]

I found this. Not a new take, apparently:

Martin Luther Was the Donald Trump of 1517

If the leader of the Reformation could have tweeted the 95 theses, he would have. And he was no slouch at locker room talk, either.

foreignpolicy.com

i'm not sober enough to give the response it deserves. it began with my daughter wearing a 4 inch lulu skirt to church. "oh my god it's fine dad." then when we got there she ran off to sit with her friends. together her crew were dressed like they'd just been denied admission to a club for being underage. my minion woke up on the wrong side of his bed and it was a fight i wasn't up for. followed later by uncles who deem a 12 pack a few beers.

but i digress. you know i love trump. he's my guy. but the only thing he shares is that of an outsider/disruptor, by happenstance more than conviction. he ran for yucks w/ no intention of winning. after he won the position and following sated his narcissistic shortcomings. all that said it's such a shame that he doesn't have the social graces and common sense to be the disruptor that so many desperately want. they don't want 50 year politician biden. they want someone who truly represents them. walks the walk. and it's next to impossible to garner the notoriety and branding requisite to getting a large enough following to succeed as a disruptor. only a trump type has it, but he doesn't again have the social graces, common sense, nor political acumen to succeed. he also doesn't really have a vision etc lol. so we'll probably end up with more failing/inept career politicians/gov

 

[NewGuyToTheBoard]

*No, he wasn't.

You thought that would ignite a fight. But the Protestants are so disengaged from their religion now days. It doesn’t even register.

I fail to see how secularism is a good thing. It seems pretty ****ing shitty to me.

 

[BradStevens]

You thought that would ignite a fight. But the Protestants are so disengaged from their religion now days. It doesn’t even register.

I fail to see how secularism is a good thing. It seems pretty ****ing shitty to me.

They actually cover how the word and concept of the secular and the religious originated around the 12th century (?) in church doctrine. But yes, Luther developed the notion of the secular even more.

You'd like that series. Try it out.

 

[snarlcakes]

Didn’t know where to place this, but was curious @BradStevens if you have a similar thoughts?

 

[BradStevens]

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Didn’t know where to place this, but was curious @BradStevens if you have a similar thoughts?

I don't know enough about the Muslim faith, to be honest, to say one is fundamentally worse than the other. I am like Dawkins in how I think about myself--a cultural Christian, if not a believer of the supernatural claims or a subscriber to some of the tenants--although I'm kinda surprised to hear him admit that. I, too, feel more at home in a christian nation, I would suspect since I'm used to it.

But the Christian faith of the 1500s would be as awful as today's most fundamentalist Muslim nations, I think. So again, I'm not sure if it is the books or if it is the societies that in which those religions are practices that make the difference on many of the norms Dawkins objected to.

As for the increased number of mosques being built, I'm not sure that's a negative. I'm hoping that as more Muslims move to the West, they will be westernized and their religion and ideas will evolve like Christianity did. That could act as a nice counterbalance to the fundamentalist strains that dominate the Middle East.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

i'm not sober enough to give the response it deserves. it began with my daughter wearing a 4 inch lulu skirt to church. "oh my god it's fine dad." then when we got there she ran off to sit with her friends. together her crew were dressed like they'd just been denied admission to a club for being underage. my minion woke up on the wrong side of his bed and it was a fight i wasn't up for. followed later by uncles who deem a 12 pack a few beers.

but i digress. you know i love trump. he's my guy. but the only thing he shares is that of an outsider/disruptor, by happenstance more than conviction. he ran for yucks w/ no intention of winning. after he won the position and following sated his narcissistic shortcomings. all that said it's such a shame that he doesn't have the social graces and common sense to be the disruptor that so many desperately want. they don't want 50 year politician biden. they want someone who truly represents them. walks the walk. and it's next to impossible to garner the notoriety and branding requisite to getting a large enough following to succeed as a disruptor. only a trump type has it, but he doesn't again have the social graces, common sense, nor political acumen to succeed. he also doesn't really have a vision etc lol. so we'll probably end up with more failing/inept career politicians/gov

I tend to think you are just sober enough !!!

But 4"... Daughters do need a god curb stom for certain things ! they will thank you later.

 

[snarlcakes]

I don't know enough about the Muslim faith, to be honest, to say one is fundamentally worse than the other. I am like Dawkins in how I think about myself--a cultural Christian, if not a believer of the supernatural claims or a subscriber to some of the tenants--although I'm kinda surprised to hear him admit that. I, too, feel more at home in a christian nation, I would suspect since I'm used to it.

But the Christian faith of the 1500s would be as awful as today's most fundamentalist Muslim nations, I think. So again, I'm not sure if it is the books or if it is the societies that in which those religions are practices that make the difference on many of the norms Dawkins objected to.

As for the increased number of mosques being built, I'm not sure that's a negative. I'm hoping that as more Muslims move to the West, they will be westernized and their religion and ideas will evolve like Christianity did. That could act as a nice counterbalance to the fundamentalist strains that dominate the Middle East.

I appreciate the response. I assume where myself and you part ways is Christianity is the bedrock of Western society. It seems like Dawkins is able to recognize it, but can’t acknowledge it.

 

[outside shooter]

Christianity is the bedrock of Western society.

I would say that it is a widely shared mythology that has a generally positive effect on minimizing conduct that is inconsistent with a stable society (e.g., murder, theft). That undeniable good is somewhat counterbalanced by some sects encouraging widespread intolerance and even hatred for other mythologies, and also by the blending of Christianity with cultish nationalism. Mixing politics and religion makes both widely distasteful and ineffective.

 

[BradStevens]

I appreciate the response. I assume where myself and you part ways is Christianity is the bedrock of Western society. It seems like Dawkins is able to recognize it, but can’t acknowledge it.

It is one of them, for sure.

 

[VanPastorMan]

Martin Luther is the one that first turned away from the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. He is likely suffering in eternity for it as the rest of the protestants have and will.

Wait a minute. The Second Counsel of Trent said the Protestants were wayward brothers. Now which is it? Am I writhing in Hell for believing in Justification by Faith alone or am I just a little off but still in the family?

 

[NewGuyToTheBoard]

Wait a minute. The Second Counsel of Trent said the Protestants were wayward brothers. Now which is it? Am I writhing in Hell for believing in Justification by Faith alone or am I just a little off but still in the family?

You will probably go to hell Van. Not because you’re not catholic, but because you’re simple.

 

[snarlcakes]

It is one of them, for sure.

I bend my bills.

 

[VanPastorMan]

You will probably go to hell Van. Not because you’re not catholic, but because you’re simple.

I have the faith of a child. Jesus said no one can enter the Kingdom of Heaven without it.