https://slate.com/technology/2017/1...re-more-susceptible-to-believing-in-lies.htmlTypical, I would expect no less. Well Done! Can it be? It must be. You need a safe space but I'd rather...
Documents released by Parnas attorney are intriguing
- Thread starter zeke4ahs
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I really don’t understand why Lev has turned on team Trump? I thought he came across as truthful but his best strategy would have been to stay on board so Trump would pardon him after the election. I don’t get where Lev is coming from, but with that said it sure appears we have nothing but an organized crime family running our country.
Best guess, he felt betrayed when Trump said the he (Trump) did not know him. In one of his statements he commented that the FBI said after they raided Parnas' home that Parnas had built a "shrine to Trump". Parnas said he felt Trump was the savior. Being arrested and having Trump got all Peter, "Woman, I don't even know Him" probably hurt his feelings.
Now all that assumes Parnas is telling the truth on his involvement. There are three options; 1) Parnas was going rogue, 2) Rudy went rogue but invoked Trump's name as if Trump ordered it 3) Trump ordered it. #1 seems unlikely given he took notes. #2 is possible, but if that happened I would think Trump would have already fired Rudy. Would you not fire someone going around on their own and claiming it is on orders from you?
Yep. The GOP needs G Gordon Liddy 2.0 and not Cohen/Parnas.
Parnas clearly said that Bolton can fill in the connection to Trump. Polls show roughly 2/3s of Americans want Bolton to testify. It is going to be tough for McConnell to avoid calling Bolton, but if anyone can do it, Mitch can.
But it doesn't matter. If Bolton shows up and says that Trump ordered the aid halted until an investigation was launched, not a single Trump supporter would care. They would just view it as politics as usual. I was reading about the court case involving Bridgegate. It appears likely the convictions will be overturned because the convictions aren't appropriate for the federal fraud statute. But in reading the article, punishing a district by closing their bridge is just viewed as business as usual by the people who did it. And yes, they are Republican. It sure seems one party totally supports slash and burn politics.
I think it was just what he said. He’s afraid for his safety. You really think this crew of mobsters would be above arranging for another guy to fall out a window?
you know what would solve ALL of this?
Bolton, Mulvaney, Pompeo & a few others testify. And Trump, for God’s sake. Why no one mentions him is beyond me. He shouldBe testified in the Mueller probe.
Want to guess why that didn’t happen? Because the white refused to cooperate on ANYTHING, and blocked their testimony.
And the white household hasn’t turned over a single document- things that would absolutely prove that the hold was directed by Trump, until an announcement of a trumped up Biden probe appeared. Which would’ve happened, sans the whistleblower.
Even then, Barr’s “justice” department illegally withheld the complaint from congress.
it’s likely the largest and biggest political cover up of all time (the teapot dome scandal may rank ahead of it- but it was ultimately exposed by folks that gave a chit about the constitution).
I’ll give the pubs this- they are MASTERS at ignoring the obvious. And finding a way to support Trump, no matter what.
Parnas worked directly with Rudy to try to prove an insane, Russian generated conspiracy theory. And somewhere along the way, they decided that it was time to pull a Hillary 2.0, and try to slime Biden.
If anyone hasn’t seen the Parnas interview, watch it. That plus everything we already know, plus the new documents equal there’s no doubt what was going on here.
how in the hell anyone can see it otherwise is insane. It’s truly an alternate reality at this point. I actually fell bad for you- history won’t view it the same way you do.
The thing about conspiracies is that they are always uncovered (unless you’re in the mob, maybe). All it takes is a few people to suddenly develop a conscience, or get squeezed on something else criminal that they did.
I say let the pubs call witnesses. Whoever they want. It’ll expose the ridiculousness. It’ll be VERY clear that all their defenses so far as complete and utter BS.
seriously, what’s the harm? The pubs are acting like this, because they know the dems are timid, and aren’t used to bare knuckle fighting. It pisses me off about the dems sometimes.
Not a single one of Trump's people who have been prosecuted have been pardoned. Loyalty is a one way street with him. I don't see that changing unless Trump loses the election, and even then it sure as hell won't happen for anyone who cooperated to any extent.
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I’ll fire that cannon straight up your stupid ass. Thanks for polluting the board nitwit.Typical, I would expect no less. Well Done! Can it be? It must be. You need a safe space but I'd rather...
I don't think violating FBI protocol equates to being illegal. There was certainly reason to be suspicious of Page, including past discussions from GRU agents regarding their attempts to recruit him, in which they called him a "useful idiot". Page was also working very hard to get the sanctions against the Russian Energy sector lifted, sanctions which were imposed as a result of Russia invading Crimea (Ukraine). More than a little self-serving on Lil Carter's part, since he owned shares in Rosneft
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/03/30/revisiting-carter-page-and-the-rosneft-deal/
The FBI was overzealous, but they were genuinely alarmed by the coziness between Team Trump (Manafort, Page, and others) and Putin's team...
You missed the REAL significance of Sondland's testimony. It was REMARKABLY different from his initial deposition. But when MULTIPLE witnesses being deposed subsequent to Sondland began contradicting HIS testimony, then he felt the need to begin to "remember" certain events in more detail. Remember Sondland was a pro-Trump POLITICAL APPOINTEE who was appointed solely on the basis of partisan bias- and donating MILLIONS to Trump's campaign...
When NON-PARTISAN, CAREER DIPLOMATS began to swear to testimony that contradicted his- he started to see charges of PERJURY in his future. THAT is why he was forced to change his testimony and begin to remember things he earlier had claimed he had no knowledge of. He didn't want to take the bullet for Trump, so he suddenly got over his amnesia...
He never said Trump wanted no quid pro quo, he said that TRUMP CLAIMED he wanted no quid pro quo. HUGE DIFFERENCE, and not exactly borne out by Trump's actual actions...
I suppose it all depends on the "goods" Rudy might have on him. If Rudy can show that DJT was in on the whole scheme, then Trump can't throw Rudy under the bus like he did with Cohen.
Oh fun. I'm sure they saved at least some juicy tidbits. If they got all the good stuff out in night #1, then night #2 would fall flat.
This editing and commentary method of broadcasting the interview is too heavy-handed. I can hear what he's saying. I don't need Rachel to repeat it for me.
No argument from me on that. Setting the context is one thing, but she's stepping all over the interview. Didn't seem as heavily done last night.
I didn't watch last night, only saw the clips on replay. My first instinct tonight was that they took a one-night interview, and spread it out to increase ratings.
However, there hasn't been a lot of meat on the bones tonight. So if you say it was a lot more tightly put together last night, maybe it was just the opposite. Maybe they had an interview they couldn't squeeze into one night, so they were forced to split it up, and tonight is the result of not having quite enough left over to fill up the entire hour.
Watching this interview, it fits right in with the larger picture of the Trump mafia family. Obviously, the entire Trump enterprise - including the administration - is corrupt as hell, and essentially a psuedo-feudal organization built entirely on graft.
A lot of people have asked how Republicans can go along with this. We know why some of them do. Some of them - the so called "deplorables" - genuinely like and support who Trump is. He speaks to their racism, their misogyny, their longing for a mythical America from a bygone era before the world passed them by. We might not like those people, but at least their support makes sense.
But what about all the other Republicans that have stayed on board? We've tossed around a lot of ideas. Evangelicals want judges. Business interests want lower taxes. Whatever it is, it's usually based on something transactional. They know Trump is bad news, but he can give them something they won't get from the Democrats, so they suck it up and deal with it.
But there's another possibility that's been tossed around - and watching Parnas talk about Rudy being incensed that Ukraine had the gall to announce anti-corruption measures without specifically mentioning Biden makes me think this really might be the biggest factor - is that it's almost entirely tribal. For all of Trump's corruption, what he's essentially being accused of boils down to this: he's going after Democrats. Maybe that's all it takes to make it all okay for a lot of people.
Edit: Minor format and syntax fixes.
A lot of people have asked how Republicans can go along with this. We know why some of them do. Some of them - the so called "deplorables" - genuinely like and support who Trump is. He speaks to their racism, their misogyny, their longing for a mythical America from a bygone era before the world passed them by. We might not like those people, but at least their support makes sense.
But what about all the other Republicans that have stayed on board? We've tossed around a lot of ideas. Evangelicals want judges. Business interests want lower taxes. Whatever it is, it's usually based on something transactional. They know Trump is bad news, but he can give them something they won't get from the Democrats, so they suck it up and deal with it.
But there's another possibility that's been tossed around - and watching Parnas talk about Rudy being incensed that Ukraine had the gall to announce anti-corruption measures without specifically mentioning Biden makes me think this really might be the biggest factor - is that it's almost entirely tribal. For all of Trump's corruption, what he's essentially being accused of boils down to this: he's going after Democrats. Maybe that's all it takes to make it all okay for a lot of people.
Edit: Minor format and syntax fixes.
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She is hard to watch even on her regular show. The tell 'em, tell 'em what you told 'em and tell 'em again gets distracting, to be kind.
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and I only watch snippets on utube
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Maybe that's why she's so popular. I always figured her popularity was due to the fact she was one of the few primetime personalities who was actually, you know, intelligent, but maybe it's just that people like being repeatedly told what they want to hear.
I mean, that's why Hannity is popular, right? So, who knows...
Honestly, I can't say I've ever watched or listened to Hannity, getting the high points second hand on here is good enough for me.
Steve Bannon on the other hand, I'll listen to what he says anytime. His word per min. and thought process is fascinating. He's a madman but interesting nonetheless.
Steve Bannon is a smart mofo. Too bad he uses his powers for evil.
I also think that an increasing number of people- mostly republican, are privately on board with the Nationalist or more specifically, White Nationalist movement. There’s no other way to explain certain people and otherwise intelligent posters on this board’s defense of the indefensible.
If you call Trump organization a Crime Family, what would you call those who defend him right or wrong? Soldato? We have a few on this board!
Bannon is fascinating person. His positions don't fit in anyone's box that they are used to. He can just as well being arguing a Bernie position as he can a Trump's position.... people that don't pay attention don't really understand what's going on. They are stuck in their little boxes and can't even use the slightest bit of independent thought... they hate Trump so much personally that they don't see he's basically carrying out policies they advocated for years/ decades. And why he will probably win again this year.
I don't know what drives Bannon. Sometimes it seems like Bannon's own beliefs drive him. Sometimes it seems like whomever he works for drives him. Whatever it is, he's a force to be reckoned with, and his political opponents need to take him seriously, even when he's positioned among the unserious.
Bannon thinks we are at war with China... economically. And he's probably correct.
The debate is how you wage that war.
We, as Americans, have a supreme standard of living for two reasons.... our economic system works more or less (with all its worts).... and it works so well for us because we dominate the global security blanket.
These things don't happen independently.
China is the biggest threat to toss all of that in the air. Bannon understands that. Most of national security people do as well.
The Huawei (5g) issue is a massive part of that, and why it will stay in the news for a long time.
Bannon believes we are fighting an economic war with China that will extend for most of our lives..... he may be right or wrong, but I wouldn't dismiss it just because you don't like Trump.
Hating the president is such a waste of effort,I agree. His support IMO isn't his support, it translates into votes and money that he takes advantage of, but cult of personality? no.
His support comes from the students of Robert Bork at Yale who organized and set out to make right a perceived wrong. The president had nothing to do with it. His support comes from the efforts of the Koch bros. and their focus on statewide elections. Their funding and organizing was a long term, intelligent long game strategy that the president had nothing to do with. A large bloc of votes that went his way came from workers that watched their jobs vanish only to pop up in Mexico or Asia. The president had nothing to do with it, as a cause or a solution.
I concede the nazi BS if you want to give him credit for that.
Can such a confluence be overcome in the next election? I hope that would be the case.What it will take is an appeal to the better nature of voters, there really is no other way IMO. It can be done and I can think of no better example than the following...
His support comes from the students of Robert Bork at Yale who organized and set out to make right a perceived wrong. The president had nothing to do with it. His support comes from the efforts of the Koch bros. and their focus on statewide elections. Their funding and organizing was a long term, intelligent long game strategy that the president had nothing to do with. A large bloc of votes that went his way came from workers that watched their jobs vanish only to pop up in Mexico or Asia. The president had nothing to do with it, as a cause or a solution.
I concede the nazi BS if you want to give him credit for that.
Can such a confluence be overcome in the next election? I hope that would be the case.What it will take is an appeal to the better nature of voters, there really is no other way IMO. It can be done and I can think of no better example than the following...
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The GOP seems to simultaneously be calling Parnas a liar and dropping all support for Hyde. We might wonder why they would drop Hyde if they thought nothing Parkas said was true.
Parnas seemed to link Greg Pence and Hyde together in the first night of the interviews..but it was kind of hard to follow. Parnas thinks Hyde is crazy and based on the emails between them I can see why he and the Republican Party wants to distance themselves from him. But if Greg Pence and Hyde are actually buddies that should be worrisome for those that live in Pence’s congressional district.
You may not, but much of the MSNBC fan base does indeed need the talking points repeated and reframed for their ease of use by whomever is on stage (Maddow, Hayes, Matthews, Brzezinski etc). Same scenario as FOX, and FOX is even worse.
What I remember him saying was that Hyde and Pence "got into it" at the Trump hotel bar where all the sycophants hang out, like there was some kind of argument or fight. BICBW.
I tried listening to it a couple of times and still was unsure but maybe you could make more out of it than I could. BTW, trying to figure out what Parnas was saying was not always easy which is why I think we saw Maddow do a lot of editing the second night so you could follow better what Parnas was saying.
I agree with everything you've stated. China is an economic powerhouse for many reasons, most of which, we can't control. But of the things we can control, everything we have ceded, has been in the interest of corporate greed.
What has Bannon, or any other Republican for that matter, done to prevent corporate greed from helping China ascend? Trump/Bannon started a trade war and their main ask, was that China stop stealing corporate IP. How does making US costs for Chinese labor cheaper, help US interests? How does it help the deplorables that put Trump/Bannon in power? It doesn't.
We wonder what drives Bannon? Probably money. What we've seen is a man who can turn economic anxiety, fear, and ignorance into an opportunity for corporate profits.
The deplorables hate the America they've helped create, but Fox news has them convinced the only thing worse than a Reagan Republican is a Socialist Democrat. So we'll try a new form of Republicanism. We'll call it America first.
I don't know what drives Bannon.... but I don't get the sense that it's money. And I wouldn't even call him a Republican. He's not a fan of corporate America and they are not a fan of him. If you read Breitbart.... particularly when he was in control of it.... they railed on corporate America unlike anything outside of a Bernie rally. Their main position being that big business imports cheap labor and cheap goods to the harm of the working class. It has a much stronger xenophobic tilt than a Bernie rally..... but it ends up in the same place.
What policies is Trump carrying out that people have been advocating for years? Particularly those of us that detest him.
His trade policy is more or less identical to what the populist progressive left has long advocated. TPP, NAFTA, China, e.t.c....
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/this...avor-of-a-trade-deal-until-now-185531943.html
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