Did the bottom fall out?

abraxis

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Some of the stories of Mary showing up at games with more people than her allotted number of tickets are legendary.

RF is Raef Lafrentz. Knight wanted him, but wanted his future teammate more, and thought he had him. One of his two most disappointing late recruiting misses.
With RL’s Iowa teammate of the future being...
 
Mar 14, 2003
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Get off my lawn
One of Knight’s many famous quotes, regarding a game like Crean’s against Syracuse, would have been, “Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you!”, although he was more of a rabbit hunter. Miller left here without one memorable quote. At least Crean had his now infamous, “It’s Indiana!” uttered in seemingly spontaneous response to “Why Indiana?” on his Day 1. Today, a coach is asked that same question, followed by a longer pause before explanation.
I am convinced that, 10 yrs from now, we'll struggle to remember Archie's name. He really had the 4 most unmemorable yrs here. He never once gave off the impression that he was even glad to be here. Complete waste of 4 yrs and $12M. Actually double that with the buyout.
 
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ButHerEmails

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The slide was underway the mid to late 90’s, while BK was still coaching.
Yes. After that great 92-93 season someone mentioned, we went to the sweet 16 the next season. After that you could pretty much bank on 11 or 12 losses every season and a first round tournament loss. Mid to late 90s weren’t fun for IU fans and the “we just won the title seven (then eight, then nine...) years ago” has turned into 34 years ago.
 
Mar 14, 2003
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Yes. After that great 92-93 season someone mentioned, we went to the sweet 16 the next season. After that you could pretty much bank on 11 or 12 losses every season and a first round tournament loss. Mid to late 90s weren’t fun for IU fans and the “we just won the title seven (then eight, then nine...) years ago” has turned into 34 years ago.
yep that S16 season was 94, Bailey's sr yr. That was our 4th consecutive S16. We had BC beat in the S16 game until they called Bailey for an offensive foul- push off in the lane while posting up, and put him in foul trouble in the second half and he came out. Game started to slide as soon as his ass hit the bench. All downhill since sans the 2002 run and couple Cody/Yogi seasons.

Edit- just watched the clip...Bailey wasn't in foul trouble but IU had roared back from 14 down to take a 5 pt lead and the Bailey call seemed to swing everything with about 6 min to go. Definitely let that one slip away.
 
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choptalk

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IU did not show itself well during that whole thing.

All I can say is this: any grown man lays his hands on my kid like that, and we're fighting.
No kidding...the way it should be.
 

choptalk

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I am convinced that, 10 yrs from now, we'll struggle to remember Archie's name. He really had the 4 most unmemorable yrs here. He never once gave off the impression that he was even glad to be here. Complete waste of 4 yrs and $12M. Actually double that with the buyout.
Look. Most people on here thought it was a sold hire. And they were very happy. It didn't work out for. number of reasons. People didn't complain getting Romeo, Lander, and TJD. They did complain about how they were used.
 
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Get off my lawn
Look. Most people on here thought it was a sold hire. And they were very happy. It didn't work out for. number of reasons. People didn't complain getting Romeo, Lander, and TJD. They did complain about how they were used.
I felt that way as well...until we had a few games under our belt, including a couple 20 pt home losses to mid majors.
I'm just being retrospective now....Archie never once gave me the impression that he enjoyed being the head coach of IU. Maybe it's just his low brow nature (vs Capt spazzy tan before him). Just never seemed like the right fit for either party- program, or Archie.
 

hunkgolden

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29 of IU's 30 coaches produced very average results. Knight just so happened to be one of the greatest of all time. IU was fortunate to have him. As soon as he started to decline, IU returned to their average results and have remained there since. Asking when the bottom fell out is kind of a silly.
 

RBB89

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29 of IU's 30 coaches produced very average results. Knight just so happened to be one of the greatest of all time. IU was fortunate to have him. As soon as he started to decline, IU returned to their average results and have remained there since. Asking when the bottom fell out is kind of a silly.
Uhhh, Branch McCracken?
 

GeddyHoosier

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Sorry . . . Jacques Vaughn. He and Sergio McClain were huge and disappointing recruiting misses for Knight, as he thought he had them both.
And Sergio would have come with Marcus Griffin. They were a package deal from somewhere in Illinois (Peoria?). They seemed like IU leans until the day announced for the Illini.
 

Courtsensetwo

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No you are absolutely correct. I think the majority of the IU fan base was alarmed at the lack of progress after 3 years but also had the keen understanding that Crean started with absolutely nothing. Then 11-12 and 12-13 happened and everything appeared to be back on track until the total lack of preparedness cost them the Syracuse game. I believe after that game there was a very high number volume of people who understood Crean was not the long term answer. After the conclusion of the following season that resulted in a missed tournament did most people get on board that Crean's days were numbered. Unfortunately he was held onto three years too long.

But this cult this poster speaks of simply isn't true. More drivel.
Spot on. There was a lot of initial excitement followed by appreciation for the progress he had made. The red flags began being noticed shortly after the initial euphoria and spiraled beyond comfort levels for anyone. Fred made a big mistake with the extension but to his credit knew it was time to cut ties. BOT held him back for a couple of years until a well known Trustee helped Fred get it done.
 

Courtsensetwo

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And Sergio would have come with Marcus Griffin. They were a package deal from somewhere in Illinois (Peoria?). They seemed like IU leans until the day announced for the Illini.
There were a lot of eyebrows raised about that at the time.
 

Birnk403

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And Sergio would have come with Marcus Griffin. They were a package deal from somewhere in Illinois (Peoria?). They seemed like IU leans until the day announced for the Illini.
Sergio was ready to commit but Marcus, who ended up at JC anyway, wouldn’t play for Knight, and it was well known that he wasn’t on board with it. But Sergio wanted to go IU. Frankie Williams would’ve followed them, too. A very expected outcome, but one that still disappointed BK.
 

hunkgolden

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Uhhh, Branch McCracken?
He won two NCAA championships when it was second fiddle to the NIT. Very Minnesota like. He coached at IU for 24 years and only won the conference outright 3 times. You guys love to downplay Keady's accomplishments at Purdue - he won twice as many conference championships in the same time frame. The point stands, minus one of their 29 coaches, iu has been a very average basketball program.
 

outside shooter

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No coach with two national championships, neither vacated, is getting "very average results". That's silly.
 

abraxis

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I am convinced that, 10 yrs from now, we'll struggle to remember Archie's name. He really had the 4 most unmemorable yrs here. He never once gave off the impression that he was even glad to be here. Complete waste of 4 yrs and $12M. Actually double that with the buyout.
He had no known personality to embrace. I sensed it in attendance of his first press conference in AH. He was uptight with a deer in headlights look about him. I think the magnitude of just the media coverage there for his introduction overwhelmed him. We never heard any reports of Coach Miller social sightings around Bloomington. He left town just as quietly. His hiring left a permanent stain on his athletic director’s resume.
 

abraxis

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Sorry . . . Jacques Vaughn. He and Sergio McClain were huge and disappointing recruiting misses for Knight, as he thought he had them both.
How do you know Knight was so confident that he already had them both? A quote would be more convincing, otherwise just saying so only fits someone’s narrative that Knight blew the deal because he slacked off in interest when it came to recruitment during his final years.
 

Birnk403

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How do you know Knight was so confident that he already had them both? A quote would be more convincing, otherwise just saying so only fits someone’s narrative that Knight blew the deal because he slacked off in interest when it came to recruitment during his final years.
I never claimed he “blew the deal” or anything like that. Was simply saying that it was a disappointing recruiting miss for him. He did blow any chance he had with Raef Lafrentz, though, and it was a sign that he was starting to have trouble communicating with parents. Sergio’s dad was a coach, so there wasn’t the same issue with WM. Hope that fills in the gaps. As for his confidence level, both kids had indicated a strong interest in attending IU and playing for BK. He thought both were coming.
 

Courtsensetwo

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He won two NCAA championships when it was second fiddle to the NIT. Very Minnesota like. He coached at IU for 24 years and only won the conference outright 3 times. You guys love to downplay Keady's accomplishments at Purdue - he won twice as many conference championships in the same time frame. The point stands, minus one of their 29 coaches, iu has been a very average basketball program.
lol...such an embittered little brother response. "Those Nattys don't count"!!
 

Courtsensetwo

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I admire a man who stays true to his convictions, despite others changing around him.

”I wanted only to try to live with the promptings which came from my true self. Why was this so very difficult?” ~ haunting epigraph to Herman Hesse’s Demian.

I’m not, yet, convinced those changes by others around him have led to the betterment of today’s society.
Overall. these changes have not led to the embetterment of anyone except for those who profit from it.

But this is a conversation for the Cooler.
 

RBB89

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He won two NCAA championships when it was second fiddle to the NIT. Very Minnesota like. He coached at IU for 24 years and only won the conference outright 3 times. You guys love to downplay Keady's accomplishments at Purdue - he won twice as many conference championships in the same time frame. The point stands, minus one of their 29 coaches, iu has been a very average basketball program.
Keady was a damn fine coach. The rest of your post is absurd.
 

Bligedy

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First let me say that I believe deep in my heart that the Hoosiers are on the rebound. I don’t know if it will take two years or five years for them to get back to some sort of national recognition. But I believe it is in the works and I am confident that it eventually will happen before I die.

During the years where the Hoosiers were on a long slow slide towards national mediocrity, which I believe is owned by Crean, there was never a shortage of fanatical Hoosiers who thought each year was just an aberation. Everybody was spending their time on this website trying to justify that Indiana was still a blue blood program. With the benefit of hindsight when do you think the bottom fell out?

I’ll go with December 18th 2017, when the Hoosiers lost to the Fort Wayne Mastadons by 20 points. With the benefit of hindsight Crean should have been on after that loss.
It started when they decided to hire Kelvin Sampson and bring NCAA heat with him. Up to that point IU had been better than that. Rock bottom was Archie losing by a thousand to Purdue on the day Knight returned to Assembly Hall.
 
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hunkgolden

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Like your retroactively "national title" awarded years after the season was completed? Go on though. Dolt.
Similar but slightly different. I look at the Helms national title similarly as I do the mythical football national championships won by Notre Dame and others.
 

hunkgolden

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NCAA titles are NCAA titles, the same way that NIT championships are NIT championships. One is recognized by one association and vice versa. Nothing more, nothing less. How many NCAA titles does Purdue have? NIT titles? I didn't think so.
Not sure if you’re intentionally being ignorant but the NIT tournament was THE national championship tourney at that time. They flipped in the mid 50’s. So yes, IU does have 5 NCAA championships but only 3 national championships.
 
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abraxis

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I never claimed he “blew the deal” or anything like that. Was simply saying that it was a disappointing recruiting miss for him. He did blow any chance he had with Raef Lafrentz, though, and it was a sign that he was starting to have trouble communicating with parents. Sergio’s dad was a coach, so there wasn’t the same issue with WM. Hope that fills in the gaps. As for his confidence level, both kids had indicated a strong interest in attending IU and playing for BK. He thought both were coming.
Would you ever consider that with RL, maybe it could have been his dad who was starting to have trouble listening, at no fault of Bob’s communication skills?Everyone knew the message so it didn’t really have to be communicated. His presence in a home was a mere formality. Now, maybe by then hotshot dad’s were starting to buy into the negative press’ new emphasis, the moral high ground. Knight communicated like he always did, in a way that got your attention. It was his way, uniquely tongued. Now, compare his communication skills to that of the four years we just had with Miller. Tell me again how BOB was having a problem communicating his message to parents?
 

Birnk403

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NCAA titles are NCAA titles, the same way that NIT championships are NIT championships. One is recognized by one association and vice versa. Nothing more, nothing less. How many NCAA titles does Purdue have? NIT titles? I didn't think so.
It’s the context that you’re obviously unaware of that is at the crux of this. We won a ton of Indiana and Hoosier Classics, too, and we won the Collegiate Commissioner’s Association championship, as well. Branch was obviously a very good coach, but hunk isn’t wrong, either.
 

Birnk403

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Would you ever consider that with RL, maybe it could have been his dad who was starting to have trouble listening, at no fault of Bob’s communication skills?Everyone knew the message so it didn’t really have to be communicated. His presence in a home was a mere formality. Now, maybe by then hotshot dad’s were starting to buy into the negative press’ new emphasis, the moral high ground. Knight communicated like he always did, in a way that got your attention. It was his way, uniquely tongued. Now, compare his communication skills to that of the four years we just had with Miller. Tell me again how BOB was having a problem communicating his message to parents?
If that’s what happened, sure I would consider it. But that’s not what happened. As was the case with the Lafrentz’s, more and more people came to not care for Knight’s style and general demeanor. Didn’t make anyone right or wrong, per se, but it began to greatly narrow his recruiting opportunities. His latter year results show that conclusively.
 
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Actually, you just won it with this post. Unreal.
Ord's portrait in his house. (which means the basement of his mommy's house).

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