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Did I miss the Khashoggi thread ?

Another day, another murderous dictator. Someday I'll be telling my kids about a time when America used to object to that sort of thing. They'll laugh back at me, via Skype, from their homes in other parts of the world.

LOL...South America, Central America and the Middle East might beg to differ
 
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Mike Pompeo is on his way to Saudi Arabia to find out what happened to Khashoggi, Trump said though that the King has denied having anything to do with the killing/disappearance. Trump said it could have been rogue assassins who killed Khashoggi in the Saudi embassy. I have a feeling that we aren't going to be taking any action regarding Saudi Arabia and Khashoggi's killing.
https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...nowledge-missing-journalist/story?id=58502802
 
Mike Pompeo is on his way to Saudi Arabia to find out what happened to Khashoggi, Trump said though that the King has denied having anything to do with the killing/disappearance. Trump said it could have been rogue assassins who killed Khashoggi in the Saudi embassy. I have a feeling that we aren't going to be taking any action regarding Saudi Arabia and Khashoggi's killing.
https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...nowledge-missing-journalist/story?id=58502802
You mean you didnt know that 15 rogue killers gain access to embassy premises routinely?

Congress is the only hope here. They forced the issue on Russia. We have an administration that is actively working against American interest. That's historic.
 
Congress is the only hope here.

Only hope for what?

If we knew that SA killed the guy, what should we do? We have no criminal jurisdiction. Senator Rubio and others are yammering about halting the pending arms sale. What good is that? All it would do is cost U.S. workers their jobs and strengthen the Iranian Mullah's hand in the region. I don't think cutting the arms sale is an answer, what do you think we should do about it? We are already sticking it to SA with Trump's energy policy.

Russia has also killed or "disappeared" journalists and others for political reasons. Yet we still pay them $80 million per seat to transport our astronauts to the ISS. And another $70 million to bring them back. Should we abandon the space station cuz of Russia killing people? If not what is the difference?

It's easy to be angry at SA. It's not so easy to do something about it.
 
Only hope for what?

If we knew that SA killed the guy, what should we do? We have no criminal jurisdiction. Senator Rubio and others are yammering about halting the pending arms sale. What good is that? All it would do is cost U.S. workers their jobs and strengthen the Iranian Mullah's hand in the region. I don't think cutting the arms sale is an answer, what do you think we should do about it? We are already sticking it to SA with Trump's energy policy.

Russia has also killed or "disappeared" journalists and others for political reasons. Yet we still pay them $80 million per seat to transport our astronauts to the ISS. And another $70 million to bring them back. Should we abandon the space station cuz of Russia killing people? If not what is the difference?

It's easy to be angry at SA. It's not so easy to do something about it.

I agree with you that Khashoggi is none of our business. However, the United States is currently supporting a genocide in Yemen. This genocide will only produce more anti-American terrorists.

We don't even need Saudi oil at this point. You tell me how this alliance is even in the United States interest? I prefer a more balanced foreign policy. I.e. we shouldn't take sides in the ongoing Iran-Saudi struggle. Let them slug it out with each other, and get the hell out of the way. Frankly, the Saudis are a much greater threat to the United States. Virtually all of the lone wolf attackers follow Saudi ideology. They are furthering extremism all over the globe.
 
Israel. SA, Egypt, and Jordan are important players and provide a balance to Iran and Russia.

You mean NATO? None of the countries you listed are opposing Russia.

Jordan is a very weak state on the verge of collapse. Egypt is struggling mightily with its own insurgency. Also major economic problems. Oh and btw, Egypt is becoming closer to Russia by the minute. Those alliances are meaningless. We subsidize them.

As for Saudi and Israel, yes they provide a counter to Iran. Again, I think our entire strategic perspective is fault. We gain nothing from sticking our noses where they don't belong in the Middle East.

Militarily, neither Russia or Iran dare threaten kinetic action against the continental United States.
 
When you do business with criminals, be they the rulers of oil kingdoms or murderous dictators or the Mafia, you become beholden to them. Continuing to do business with them is baked in, so turning a blind eye is the only option available.
 
We don't even need Saudi oil at this point. You tell me how this alliance is even in the United States interest?
Uh, yes we do. It is a global oil market, no matter how much we produce. If the Saudis cut production or are severely sanctioned, then the price of oil goes up for everyone. We don't get back to sit back and gloat about all of our wonderful cheap oil, while the rest of the global economy suffers under the weight of high crude oil prices. No, we suffer right along with everyone else.

Now, I am not suggesting that the Saudis should go unpunished. But it's naïve to suggest that we do not need Saudi oil production to stabilize the price of oil.
 
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Uh, yes we do. It is a global oil market, no matter how much we produce. If the Saudis cut production or are severely sanctioned, then the price of oil goes up for everyone. We don't get back to sit back and gloat about all of our wonderful cheap oil, while the rest of the global economy suffers under the weight of high crude oil prices. No, we suffer right along with everyone else.

Now, I am not suggesting that the Saudis should go unpunished. But it's naïve to suggest that we do not need Saudi oil production to stabilize the price of oil.
Oil is far too cheap. The future of this planet depends on the price of oil ten timesing.
 
wolverton_1230.jpg
 
Uh, yes we do. It is a global oil market, no matter how much we produce. If the Saudis cut production or are severely sanctioned, then the price of oil goes up for everyone. We don't get back to sit back and gloat about all of our wonderful cheap oil, while the rest of the global economy suffers under the weight of high crude oil prices. No, we suffer right along with everyone else.

Now, I am not suggesting that the Saudis should go unpunished. But it's naïve to suggest that we do not need Saudi oil production to stabilize the price of oil.

Without going into the weeds too much, we would survive if the Saudis shut off oil to us. On the other hand, the Saudi regime would collapse within a week if they cut production to us.

What's astonishing to me is how this administration refuses to recognize that we are in the absolute position of strength. Meanwhile, the Saudis are directing all kinds of threats and blusters toward us. What kind of ally is this exactly? We are treated better by our sworn enemies. It's about time this alliance cease.
 
Without going into the weeds too much, we would survive if the Saudis shut off oil to us. On the other hand, the Saudi regime would collapse within a week if they cut production to us.

What's astonishing to me is how this administration refuses to recognize that we are in the absolute position of strength. Meanwhile, the Saudis are directing all kinds of threats and blusters toward us. What kind of ally is this exactly? We are treated better by our sworn enemies. It's about time this alliance cease.
Sure, we would survive. And yes, the Saudis would lose far more than the U.S. But, if Saudi Oil were to stop selling oil to the U.S. we would surely end up in a recession. Oil would spike to $100+ overnight, and $150 to $200 within a week or two if the disruption lasted that long. Also, some of our refineries would probably go offline within a few weeks, as it would be difficult to make up for the loss of Saudi oil. You can't just use any crude oil you want at a refinery - each is designed for a specific type of crude oil. For example, refineries currently using Saudi crude oil cannot run U.S. shale oil--not to mention the logistical problems (e.g., no way to get the oil to the refineries that need med/heavy sour crude).
 
I wonder how happy Kavanaugh must feel with Trump comparing his situation to that of Khashoggi’s killing? Those darn journalist...btw wasn’t Khashoggi one of them?
 
Without going into the weeds too much, we would survive if the Saudis shut off oil to us. On the other hand, the Saudi regime would collapse within a week if they cut production to us.

What's astonishing to me is how this administration refuses to recognize that we are in the absolute position of strength. Meanwhile, the Saudis are directing all kinds of threats and blusters toward us. What kind of ally is this exactly? We are treated better by our sworn enemies. It's about time this alliance cease.

Most of our oil does not come from Saudi Arabia, as you mentioned. What would happen if we ceased getting oil from them? The price of crude would increase and all of our "friends" like Iran, Russia, and Venezuela would see an influx of cash, much like what happened before the price of oil crashed earlier this century.

This idea that we have to go around sanitizing the world is a neo-con construct. Our relationship with the Saudis is transactional. They get us what we need in the region.

Listen toasted, I know you have a reason to be sympathetic to Iran but the political right in this country is not turning to them until the mullahs are gone.
 
Most of our oil does not come from Saudi Arabia, as you mentioned. What would happen if we ceased getting oil from them? The price of crude would increase and all of our "friends" like Iran, Russia, and Venezuela would see an influx of cash, much like what happened before the price of oil crashed earlier this century.

This idea that we have to go around sanitizing the world is a neo-con construct. Our relationship with the Saudis is transactional. They get us what we need in the region.

Listen toasted, I know you have a reason to be sympathetic to Iran but the political right in this country is not turning to them until the mullahs are gone.

You do realize that the Russians have been the biggest beneficiary of the Iran sanctions?

If everything is transactional in your view, then why are we meddling in Venezuela? They are not the slightest strategic threat to the U.S.

With respect to the Saudis, they would not dare stop pumping to the US in a new York minute. The regime would collapse within a week as soon as the public stops receiving their welfare check.

I'm not remotely sympathetic to the Iranian regime. They are certainly no worse than the Saudis.The reality is that we have a number of American officials who have an obsessive fixation with Iran. The Saudis have been causing serious problems for us, starting with 9/11. Need I remind you of the body count?

We should treat each player in a transactional manner. It suggests that many of our officials are not acting in the best interest of the United States, but rather in the interest of their ideology and pocketbooks.
 
I continue to be baffled by the level of incompetence in both Riyadh and Washington. It seems obvious that MbS had Khashoggi tortured, brutally murdered, and dismembered. Our own intelligence community is increasingly convinced of it. Yet Trump absurdly speculates about "rogue killers" while crediting MbS's "very strong" denials. Meanwhile, Washington and Riyadh are working to concoct some implausible cover story that no one will believe.

What a mess:

Turkey has caught a regional rival in a compromising position—with no alibi or coherent strategy to defend itself. By letting one detail slip each day, titrating the dosage of grotesquerie to prolong the headlines, it has turned the likely torture of Khashoggi into a torture of another sort for Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MbS). David Ignatius reported yesterday that MbS has been in a “rage” and a “funk” for days. Even before these calamitous last weeks, rumors circulated in the kingdom of MbS’s possible ouster or assassination. Turkey has prolonged the news cycle to nourish the perception that MbS is crazy and murderous. As if to illustrate how terrible his options are, CNN reported that MbS will acknowledge Khashoggi’s death at the hands of his security services but will attribute it to “rogue” elements. That excuse will, if anyone believes it, replace the perception that he is a crazy murderer with the perception that he is surrounded by crazy murderers he is unable to restrain, potentially including even his own senior diplomats, intelligence officers, pilots, and physicians.​
 
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They're already talking about it being between the Saudis and Turkey, that he was a Saudi citizen (no matter that he was a US permanent resident), and it's none of our business. No way they'll scuttle the arms sale over one raghead getting killed by his own government. Business is business.

Might you edit the crudity out of this post so that the point is effectively made without the offense?
 
I continue to be baffled by the level of incompetence in both Riyadh and Washington. It seems obvious that MbS had Khashoggi tortured, brutally murdered, and dismembered. Our own intelligence community is increasingly convinced of it. Yet Trump absurdly speculates about "rogue killers" while crediting MbS's "very strong" denials. Meanwhile, Washington and Riyadh are working to concoct some implausible cover story that no one will believe.

What a mess:

Turkey has caught a regional rival in a compromising position—with no alibi or coherent strategy to defend itself. By letting one detail slip each day, titrating the dosage of grotesquerie to prolong the headlines, it has turned the likely torture of Khashoggi into a torture of another sort for Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MbS). David Ignatius reported yesterday that MbS has been in a “rage” and a “funk” for days. Even before these calamitous last weeks, rumors circulated in the kingdom of MbS’s possible ouster or assassination. Turkey has prolonged the news cycle to nourish the perception that MbS is crazy and murderous. As if to illustrate how terrible his options are, CNN reported that MbS will acknowledge Khashoggi’s death at the hands of his security services but will attribute it to “rogue” elements. That excuse will, if anyone believes it, replace the perception that he is a crazy murderer with the perception that he is surrounded by crazy murderers he is unable to restrain, potentially including even his own senior diplomats, intelligence officers, pilots, and physicians.​

There are two very clear reasons.

1. Both elected official and bureaucratic officers have a messianic world view of Iran.
2. Follow the money. The Saudis have flooded Washington with massive amounts of $$$. (They are following the Israeli model). I've posted before how numerous think tanks were taking million dollar "donations" from them, poisoning all analysis.
 
Note that NPR research indicated we currently have a few billion $ in military deals with Saudis. The $111B Trump has been using as an excuse dates to the Obama Administration.
 
I continue to be baffled by the level of incompetence in both Riyadh and Washington. It seems obvious that MbS had Khashoggi tortured, brutally murdered, and dismembered. Our own intelligence community is increasingly convinced of it. Yet Trump absurdly speculates about "rogue killers" while crediting MbS's "very strong" denials. Meanwhile, Washington and Riyadh are working to concoct some implausible cover story that no one will believe.

What a mess:

Turkey has caught a regional rival in a compromising position—with no alibi or coherent strategy to defend itself. By letting one detail slip each day, titrating the dosage of grotesquerie to prolong the headlines, it has turned the likely torture of Khashoggi into a torture of another sort for Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MbS). David Ignatius reported yesterday that MbS has been in a “rage” and a “funk” for days. Even before these calamitous last weeks, rumors circulated in the kingdom of MbS’s possible ouster or assassination. Turkey has prolonged the news cycle to nourish the perception that MbS is crazy and murderous. As if to illustrate how terrible his options are, CNN reported that MbS will acknowledge Khashoggi’s death at the hands of his security services but will attribute it to “rogue” elements. That excuse will, if anyone believes it, replace the perception that he is a crazy murderer with the perception that he is surrounded by crazy murderers he is unable to restrain, potentially including even his own senior diplomats, intelligence officers, pilots, and physicians.​


Well Lindsey Graham is foaming at the mouth again...and this time towards the Saudis. Listening to him, Corker, Rubio, etc....I don't think they'll let some concocted story fly. Of course, Corker is lame duck.
 
Well Lindsey Graham is foaming at the mouth again...and this time towards the Saudis. Listening to him, Corker, Rubio, etc....I don't think they'll let some concocted story fly. Of course, Corker is lame duck.
Corker is claiming the intels have slammed the door on further updates to the Intelligence Committee on the Saudi situation, have even canceled scheduled briefings.
 
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