Only fan base I know who refuse to come out and support players, coaches school. Then have the audacity to bitch about every aspect of the program. Refuse to take any ownership of lack of success just sit back and point fingers at everyone and everything else. I don’t care who you hire you have to go to the games and support the team. Big time players are not going to play in an empty stadium. You can argue that all you want and make excuses that they are just going to disappoint so there is no reason to show up. Next no quality coach is gonna want to coach in a place where they give you less than two seasons to turn around the program. So you can go ahead and fire the coaches continue to not go to games point fingers at everyone else. But what you are going to get is what you have gotten forevever.
Did Glass hire Allen to take a step backwards?
- Thread starter bdhman
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How exactly are Indiana fans supposed "take ownership" of the lack of success for the program? That falls squarely on the University leadership who continue to make poor decisions and coaching hires.
That's the most ridiculous GD thing I've ever heard. Some of you guys are unbelievable with this nonsense.
You just proved my point. Cannot expect kids to go to IU when there is ZERO fan support. But to sit it’s not our fault. True it is not All the fans fault but the fans do have some culpability. You can deny it all you want.
Your point is that the program hasn't achieved success because of the fans.
Think about that for a second...
It's absolutely ridiculous and a non-starter.
Success begins with leadership. More specifically, better leadership. It really is just as simple as that.
#LEO
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I ask you do you believe a Top Recruit is going to come and play in front of an empty stadium?
I don’t care what kind of recruiter you are , your are severely handicapped trying to recruit to an empty. That is why they try to bring guys to basketball games. Completely different atmosphere.
Well the stadium isn't empty, it's just not at capacity. But I understand your exaggeration. Players come for the coach and the right fit. No player ever has based their college choice on attendance numbers. That's just stupid.
As head coaches at the P5 level, they were both in over their heads. And arguing about who was better is almost like asking which was the better MLB team - - the '62 Mets or the 2018 Orioles.
The Lynch detractors love to point to the 83-20 loss against Wisconsin. But the Wilson worshipers conveniently overlook the many embarrassing losses during the Wilson era. The 2015 Rutgers game is the elephant in the room, but there were numerous other bad losses including the Navy game when the Midshipmen never had to punt. And that was after numerous practices - - both during the summer and during the two extra days of practice we had leading up to the Navy game - - that were devoted to prepping to defend against the triple-option.
Wilson's teams qualified for two bowls on the last day of the season because our opponent was historically and horrifically shitty Purdue. Period.
Danc...as usual your arguments don't pass the smell or eye tests. If you cant visually see how much better Wilson teams were than Lynch, its on you...also as usual. You are consistent at least. Your hatred of Wilson will be carved on your tombstone...
We were winning late in the third quarter and had missed three FGs and an XP IIRC. The game turned into a sleet storm every time we went on offense.
These are the same arguments that were used to retain Crean. I wonder how that could be?
Just to keep it real, there are a few improvements:
- We no longer have alcohol related “incidents” involving our HC
- There are fewer strained relationships with people important to the program (former players, HS coaches, etc.).
- TA recruited Mr. Football and signed the highest rated QB in forever in his first class. He is on track with his second class to ink back to back classes higher ranked than any two classes KW put together in six years.
and yes for all intents and purpose 30,000 people in a stadium that holds 54000 it is basically empty.
I remember the Missouri game and then I remember the fold after that.
What good does it do to beat a good team when you lose to a non-P5 team?
Dinardo beat Oregon at Oregon. Big whoop.
There are no standards for performance at IU as far as winning is concerned. Wins and losses don’t matter, especially in football. Winning isn’t even the main objective. It’s really pathetic.
So...over 50% capacity is "basicly" empty? Got it.
Maybe if you want people to take your ridiculous argument seriously, don't use such hyperbole.
Please show me one instance of a recruit choosing another school over Indiana because of fan turnout.
The reality that you claim some of us don't live in, is that until this football program shows even the slightest bit of success, expect the same amount of fan support.
It WILL NOT happen the other way around. It just won't. And you know this. To suggest otherwise isn't living in reality.
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Well if that is case then why is Cameron still not the coach since nobody cares about performance. We would not be on our 6th coach in the last 25 years if they did not care about performance. If they did not care about football then they would not have put all of those millions of dollars in the facilities and the stadium.
It is amazing that you can even believe that stadium that is half empty has no effect on a recruits decision.
No, what's amazing is you can't provide one instance where that's actually been the case.
Let's say you're correct, and in some strange bizarro world the fans are some how responsible for a winning football program...what do you propose Indiana do about it? How do you convince an extra 15,000 fans (50,000-35,000=15,000) to show up every Saturday and watch blowout losses to Iowa? Or Penn St? Or any other team Indiana is trying to surpass in the Big Ten?
The programs that fill 100,000 seat stadiums have tradition and culture and dynamic coaches who are held to very high standards...all because of a history of winning. Indiana, unfortunately doesn't.
Start winning. The fans will come. I promise.
Not saying it was the only factor but Tommy Stevens de4commit from IU to pledge to PSU followed his visit to the OSU @ PSU "White-out" night game won by PSU. What an atmosphere!
Fans have to take a leap of faith and support someone and not jump ship first sign of trouble. Stop waiting for the sky to fall in. I would also suggest IU do its part and lower ticket prices to draw more fans. You show the same fan frenzy at Memorial stadium as Assembley Hall you will get kids interested. I know what you are saying people don’t want to go out to watch losses but during some of IU s darkest basketball days fan support never waned and Tom Crean was still able to bring in Noah Vonleh, Oladipo, Zeller, Ferrell , Blackmon, Davis, and other quality guys.
That MSU game was close until the end. Mostly came down to Wilson’s lack of concern for defense. We directly were able to point to about 5 errors made by young guys who Wilson urged Knorr to play... who had no business playing. Again, Wilson brought a lot of good to the program, but he needed a guy like CTA to take control of the defense much sooner... and those guys who made mistakes vs. MSU, did not see any action the next year and are now no longer playing college football although they have eligibility. The combination of CKW running the offense and CTA holding the defense accountable would’ve been the ideal arrangement for IU. Again, I’m not giving up on Allen as the HC, but when he and Wilson could just focus on their particular strengths, that was ideal.
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This is somewhat unrelated, but does anyone know why IUPUI students aren't marketed more to when it comes to ticket sales? They have access to the IU student ticket rate and can sit in the student section, but almost none of them know about it. That could easily be another 1,000 fans or more every Saturday, if they knew the offer was available
Tommy Stevens decommitted from Indiana on 11/10/2014. Two days after Penn St. defeated Indiana (Nov. 8) 13-7 in Memorial Stadium.
Win and they will come. Players and fans alike. I promise.
I think that the leadership has done enough. I can only remember one coaching instance during my time at IU (Wilson’s lack of regard for defense) that I can honestly blame coaching for. And the leadership at IU has given these guys plenty of resources to be successful. In the end it’s not on fans, or CKW, or CTA, or Glass, or Dan Dakich (whatever his name is) blasting the program. It’s on the players who don’t execute well enough to win. And until those guys change, the team won’t change. I remember IU basketball for example not turning around until Oladipo and those guys took ownership, even with a suspect coach. It was important to them. They went an extra mile. They went to Kilroys a little less often. When that group left, the program collapsed. IU football will need a group of players who take ownership, similar to the group of IUBB players who turned that program around for a short time.
Poor marketing as the more college age kids yelling and having fun helps create a better atmosphere. Football is and always has been a game of emotion and enthusiasm.
“It’s not just about the x’s and o’s It’s about the Jimmys and Joes.”Right now are best Jimmys and Joes are freshman and Sony and high schoolers.
So it's not on the coaches or the Athletic Director? Well that's refreshing. I can go back 20+ years and give examples of what the University has given us (the fans) as far as leadership, or lack thereof. From Miles Brand to Mike Davis to Adam Herbert to Gerry DiNardo to Kelvin Sampson to Bill Lynch to Fred Glass to Tom Crean, the "leadership" has been downright abysmal.
But I get it, it falls solely on the players. It's just bad luck that Indiana keeps getting ones that don't buy in.
I see your point, but a decent example of a team that turned around when the players decided it was time to turn around was IUBB circa 2011-2012.
I agree wholeheartedly with your example. And what you've described is culture. You are correct, it absolutely changed once those players moved on. And not for the better. A player was almost killed. But that change in culture falls squarely on the coach at the time for letting it fester. And with better leadership it should have cost him his job. It didn't (at least not right away) and the results speak for themselves...
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I wouldn't say the game against Navy was a bad loss. They were coming off an 8 win season and won 9 in the year you are referencing. Most people tend to forget how good Navy was the years we played them. They even played at Notre Dame that season and only lost by 4 in a back-and-forth type of contest.
What was bad was how much practice time (even in spring ball) KW used to prep for the triple option - KW preferred term was “Navy Bone” - and we still looked completely unprepared, just lost out there. I don’t agree the coaches didnt know how to stop it, they just didn’t get the players ready to stop it.
In that case it was scheme as they placed d tackles in A gaps and put them in easy blocking rules as guards blocked down on tackle the o tackles went to line backers and read defensive ends the olb on triple option. They should have put them head up or a 3 technique and stacked backers. Forced them to try and trap and would have been 4on 3 in the middle and left guy unblocked and if they tried to run triple the 3 technique would be first read tackles would block down on 3 technique and allowed linebackers to be free
I agree 100%. Wilson dedicated periods to stop that even in the spring. The issue was more so Mallory at that time and the overall lack of defensive teaching I’d argue. But the coaches definitely put a lot of effort into stopping that attack. The issue was translating that information to the players.
That’s exactly what they did. and that put TJ Simmons in a terrible position as a true freshman. But him in a position where he was essentially going to have to contain anything off tackle from the middle of the field, and with his lack of speed it hurt.
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