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Devos being treated like she deserves

While stunts like this may be emotionally satisfying, I'm not sure it's a wise political strategy.

If left-wing dissidents want to take a page from the Tea Party playbook, they need to be directing a good portion of their ire at the Democratic Party establishment. That's really where their political power lies.
 
Watching people barricading a public school reminded me of the bigotry of George Wallace as he did the same.

Mmm, I don't know about that. I think it was bad optics and bad politics. But I don't see much of an analog to George Wallace.

Generally speaking, I'd say the left probably ought to be more careful than it is on the issue of education reform. Whether they realize it or not, they have some vulnerabilities there.
 
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I think it may get worse for her. She bought this position by her past campaign contribtions to R senators

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-keg-our-politics-are/?utm_term=.ca0a09ad2180

Once again, the left craps on free speech.

I was a Never Trumper, but after watching, I fear his opponents way more than Trump. As proven by the court rulings, the Constitution protects me from a rogue Presidential action. Nothing but counter-violence protects me from a street thug who thinks they are part of a superior intellectual race.
 
Mmm, I don't know about that. I think it was bad optics and bad politics. But I don't see much of an analog to George Wallace.

Generally speaking, I'd say the left probably ought to be more careful than it is on the issue of education reform. Whether they realize it or not, they have some vulnerabilities there.

I think the central core bigotry that leads to blocking entry to a public school is very similar. Bigotry isn't just about skin color.
 
I staunchly opposed her confirmation, but no one deserves to be treated like that. It was appalling.

I'm curious about that. Her schtick seems to be all about charters and vouchers. I'm opposed to vouchers but all in on charters. That said I thought her appointment was a big meh. I would think the same about any Secretary of Education. I think that is a very weak department except for Title IX and IDEA. What do you think she can do about her agenda?
 
I'm curious about that. Her schtick seems to be all about charters and vouchers. I'm opposed to vouchers but all in on charters. That said I thought her appointment was a big meh. I would think the same about any Secretary of Education. I think that is a very weak department except for Title IX and IDEA. What do you think she can do about her agenda?
This is about one thing and one thing only, They know she is anti union and this is a union issue.
 
I staunchly opposed her confirmation, but no one deserves to be treated like that. It was appalling.

Totally agree. I cringed upon seeing that. They should welcome her into the school and then approach her with the tough questions they have while she's there.
 
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I'm curious about that. Her schtick seems to be all about charters and vouchers. I'm opposed to vouchers but all in on charters. That said I thought her appointment was a big meh. I would think the same about any Secretary of Education. I think that is a very weak department except for Title IX and IDEA. What do you think she can do about her agenda?
Her lack of any relevant experience was more concerning to me than her views on things like charters and vouchers.
 
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I hope that most of you are smart enough to realize that Amway is a MLM (pyramid) scheme where some of the participants lose money, sometimes even enough to end up in Chap 7.

If you think that Amway is so great, quit your day job and join Amway as a distributor. Your friends will soon come to avoid you because you are constantly pestering them to buy $ 39.95 bottles of fabric softener or whatever their "bargain" happens to be.

Devos made her money from scamming many people. She really deserves to be sneered at.
Her business is running out of US victims and has now moved on to other countries.

Regardless, she is a snake oil salesperson
who should not be admired as some of you
seem to believe.




 
I hope that most of you are smart enough to realize that Amway is a MLM (pyramid) scheme where some of the participants lose money, sometimes even enough to end up in Chap 7.

If you think that Amway is so great, quit your day job and join Amway as a distributor. Your friends will soon come to avoid you because you are constantly pestering them to buy $ 39.95 bottles of fabric softener or whatever their "bargain" happens to be.

Devos made her money from scamming many people. She really deserves to be sneered at.
Her business is running out of US victims and has now moved on to other countries.

Regardless, she is a snake oil salesperson
who should not be admired as some of you
seem to believe.



You missed the point, bigly.
 
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And I assume that you would love to kiss her ass because she is a billionaire.

When she gets done with her governmental stint she will still likely be very rich.

Her ethics have long been to take advantage of people who have been financially desparate
 
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And I assume that you would love to kiss her ass because she is a billionaire.

When she gets done with her governmental stint she will still likely be very rich.

Her ethics have long been to take advantage of people who have been financially desparate
Who are you talking to?
 
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And I assume that you would love to kiss her ass because she is a billionaire.

When she gets done with her governmental stint she will still likely be very rich.

Her ethics have long been to take advantage of people who have been financially desparate

You just don't get it do you?

1) Everyone, except you, seems to be in consensus that actions taken by those that opposed her were not productive or decent, in any sense of the word

2) Amway, like most MLMs, is questionable legally, ethically, etc. as a business and continues to toe those lines. That being said, why are you bitching at Betsy for the crafting of company her FIL and Van Andel created? Hard to fault her for her FIL's and husband's business practices and decisions

3) Where was this animosity toward other MLMs that we've discussed in the past on this board (e.g. Herbalife, Natural Health Trends, Rodan & Fields?)

4) Can you just admit that you are jealous of those with wealth?
 
I hope that most of you are smart enough to realize that Amway is a MLM (pyramid) scheme where some of the participants lose money, sometimes even enough to end up in Chap 7.

If you think that Amway is so great, quit your day job and join Amway as a distributor. Your friends will soon come to avoid you because you are constantly pestering them to buy $ 39.95 bottles of fabric softener or whatever their "bargain" happens to be.

Devos made her money from scamming many people. She really deserves to be sneered at.
Her business is running out of US victims and has now moved on to other countries.

Regardless, she is a snake oil salesperson
who should not be admired as some of you
seem to believe.

Don't want her admired.
Do want her treated like a citizen entitled to speak.
Too much to ask?
 
I hope that most of you are smart enough to realize that Amway is a MLM (pyramid) scheme where some of the participants lose money, sometimes even enough to end up in Chap 7.

If you think that Amway is so great, quit your day job and join Amway as a distributor. Your friends will soon come to avoid you because you are constantly pestering them to buy $ 39.95 bottles of fabric softener or whatever their "bargain" happens to be.

Devos made her money from scamming many people. She really deserves to be sneered at.
Her business is running out of US victims and has now moved on to other countries.

Regardless, she is a snake oil salesperson
who should not be admired as some of you
seem to believe.

Her lack of any relevant experience was more concerning to me than her views on things like charters and vouchers.

I don't know anything about her, other than what I've learned after she was nominated. While I am certainly no fan of Amway, i don't think it is fair to claim some kind of moral high ground about her business as a means to criticize her. We have many business people in power, in positions of influence, and in government who take economic advantage.

Regarding experience I would point out that Ike was a pretty good president of Columbia with absolutely no academic background. He wasn't even a good student at West Point. A few years ago the academic community at the University of Colorado went bonkers when the regents went outside of the academic community and selected a successful businessman as president of the university. He's been pretty good at the job.

So when it comes to operating as a chief executive officer, or even a cabinet secretary, I'm not sure relevant experience must be experience in the particular field.

Edit: According to Wiki, Betsy Devos had nothing to do with starting, operating, or expanding Amway. Seem her only connection was to have married the son and former CEO of the founder. The moral preening over Amway and Devos seems to be a nothingburger.
 
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I hope that most of you are smart enough to realize that Amway is a MLM (pyramid) scheme where some of the participants lose money, sometimes even enough to end up in Chap 7.

If you think that Amway is so great, quit your day job and join Amway as a distributor. Your friends will soon come to avoid you because you are constantly pestering them to buy $ 39.95 bottles of fabric softener or whatever their "bargain" happens to be.

Devos made her money from scamming many people. She really deserves to be sneered at.
Her business is running out of US victims and has now moved on to other countries.

Regardless, she is a snake oil salesperson
who should not be admired as some of you
seem to believe.




It's a reverse funnel system...
 
If educators actually had the children's best interest foremost in their minds they would welcome a fresh perspective with education failing so badly in it's current state. But unions refuse to let kids educational best interests get in the way of smaller classes,more funding,less hours and more vacation time not to mention tenure that protects the bad and worst among them. One thing that will come to fruition if Betsy gets her way with vouchers and charter schools is the best teachers will certainly not have a hard time finding work. In better environments and making more money.
 
If educators actually had the children's best interest foremost in their minds they would welcome a fresh perspective with education failing so badly in it's current state. But unions refuse to let kids educational best interests get in the way of smaller classes,more funding,less hours and more vacation time not to mention tenure that protects the bad and worst among them. One thing that will come to fruition if Betsy gets her way with vouchers and charter schools is the best teachers will certainly not have a hard time finding work. In better environments and making more money.
DeVos should be allowed to enter a school. That protest was bad.

However, you are so unbelievably ignorant. DeVos' influence in Michigan (and we're talking several years here) has led to horrific test scores and 35% college readiness. How do you excuse that? I mean do you actually know any teachers or do you just read Drudge all day? Good gracious. You have no idea what you are talking about. None. Not a clue.
 
If educators actually had the children's best interest foremost in their minds they would welcome a fresh perspective with education failing so badly in it's current state. But unions refuse to let kids educational best interests get in the way of smaller classes,more funding,less hours and more vacation time not to mention tenure that protects the bad and worst among them. One thing that will come to fruition if Betsy gets her way with vouchers and charter schools is the best teachers will certainly not have a hard time finding work. In better environments and making more money.

It's a system that works for the teachers and not the kids, and the only solution they're willing to offer is to give them more money.
 
DeVos should be allowed to enter a school. That protest was bad.

However, you are so unbelievably ignorant. DeVos' influence in Michigan (and we're talking several years here) has led to horrific test scores and 35% college readiness. How do you excuse that? I mean do you actually know any teachers or do you just read Drudge all day? Good gracious. You have no idea what you are talking about. None. Not a clue.
Are you fine with the current state of the education system?
 
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DeVos should be allowed to enter a school. That protest was bad.

However, you are so unbelievably ignorant. DeVos' influence in Michigan (and we're talking several years here) has led to horrific test scores and 35% college readiness. How do you excuse that? I mean do you actually know any teachers or do you just read Drudge all day? Good gracious. You have no idea what you are talking about. None. Not a clue.

Can you elaborate? Accoding to Wiki, Devos has never held position at any level in the Michigan edcucation system. Did she have some super secret influence? If the schools are such poor performers, there will be a lot of fingerprints on that which don't include Devos'.
 
mention tenure that protects the bad and worst among them

Tenure and the protection of teachers is a problem, no doubt. I experienced this first hand during grad school. I haven't seen many solutions for alternatives that would provide incentives for the teachers to not only work hard and help their kids perform well in their early years, but all throughout their tenure. Has anyone seen any good ideas regarding restructuring of the current system?
 
I don't know anything about her, other than what I've learned after she was nominated. While I am certainly no fan of Amway, i don't think it is fair to claim some kind of moral high ground about her business as a means to criticize her. We have many business people in power, in positions of influence, and in government who take economic advantage.

Regarding experience I would point out that Ike was a pretty good president of Columbia with absolutely no academic background. He wasn't even a good student at West Point. A few years ago the academic community at the University of Colorado went bonkers when the regents went outside of the academic community and selected a successful businessman as president of the university. He's been pretty good at the job.

So when it comes to operating as a chief executive officer, or even a cabinet secretary, I'm not sure relevant experience must be experience in the particular field.

Edit: According to Wiki, Betsy Devos had nothing to do with starting, operating, or expanding Amway. Seem her only connection was to have married the son and former CEO of the founder. The moral preening over Amway and Devos seems to be a nothingburger.
I agree but she has next to no management experience either. So it's not just no experience in the field it's also no other pertinent experience demonstrating that she knows how to lead a large organization either.
 
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I agree but she has next to no management experience either. So it's not just no experience in the field it's also no other pertinent experience demonstrating that she knows how to lead a large organization either.
A lot of Cabinet Secretaries have next to no management experience when they get into their post. They're supposed to lead rather than manage anyway. HRC for instance, not only had next to no management experience, she demonstrated a text book case of a "do as I say, not as I do" leadership style. In the defense of all those Secretaries with little to no management experience, that's what the career service civilians in those Departments are there to do.

I also think Devos isn't a good pick, but not on the worst list. I don't think she can do much harm in that Department anyway. I'm among those that would be happy to cut that Department in half or even roll in back into another Department and to get rid of it, so I can get bent out of shape about her nomination and confirmation.
 
I'm curious about that. Her schtick seems to be all about charters and vouchers. I'm opposed to vouchers but all in on charters. That said I thought her appointment was a big meh. I would think the same about any Secretary of Education. I think that is a very weak department except for Title IX and IDEA. What do you think she can do about her agenda?
Why all in on charters? As a public educator, I am interested to hear your opinion...thank-you in advance.
 
Why all in on charters? As a public educator, I am interested to hear your opinion...thank-you in advance.

In general, when free public education was mandated by many, and now all, state constitutions, the various states organized themselves into school districts. Districts are creatures of state government and state law uniformly applies to each district. The districts were usually established when the states were organized, and except for consolidations, they are the same. Regardless of consolidation, the top down state administration of education applies just as it did a hundred years ago. This led to various problems typical of large organizations including heavy and cumbersome bureaucracies, important decisions made by detached individuals, lack of flexibility, lack of innovation and more. Charters came along to cut through some of these issues.

I think charter are more innovative.
I think they are more flexible.
I think they are more responsive to changing conditions.
I think they are more dedicated to delivering a service to youngsters instead of dedicated to accommodating interests of adults.

I am well aware of some of the problems such as selectivity, budgets, and failure to meet minimum standards. These objections can be met with sound legislation and local school boards committed to these ideas about reform. Colorado and Denver I think is committed to both, and judging from a few threads from time to time about charters, I think is a leader in the field.

Denver has also adopted the concept of innovation schools which are schools that operate with the freedom of charters, but have no charters. This has been a way to fix the problems of some failing schools.

Some school districts are just too big and unwieldy and should be broken up. Along these lines, I think charter districts are also a good idea where a single charter concept can apply from elementary through high school using different schools.
 
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During my local travels, I happen to drive by 2 charter schools. One is located in a former
furniture store and the other is located in an abandoned 1950s style motel.

Hopefully, they both are technologically up-to-date, in terms of equipment and have competent administrators and faculty.




 
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