Defense First

[Frosty83]

I hope that CAM can be more dedicated to a defensive philosophy. OG was IU's most effective defensive player as he led in steals in MPG. More importantly he could defend the lane and alter or block shots which kept opponents off guard when testing the middle. When OG went down, IU had no one in the lane who could defend and intimidate. IU greatly needs a nasty post defensive presence.

The only other player effective on defense was DG when you look at steals and rebounds. It did seem at the end of the year that IU was most competitive when DG was on the floor and I wonder if that is part of the reason RJ and JBJ are testing the waters.

Barring injury I think DG sees an increase in time next year because of his ability to defend and his offensive numbers were decent with the exception of the turnovers which I expect to go down with CAM placing more emphasis on possessions.

Look for Smith to see opportunities as I don't expect much defensively from CH (knee). If Smith can provide any of the defensive presence inside that OG had that is IU's greatest need. Look for CAM to recruit some aggressive tough lane defenders in the future as that is what IU is sorely missing. Hopefully a different emphasis on stopping teams can turn DD and JM into an intimidating duo inside.

 

[kkott]

I hope that CAM can be more dedicated to a defensive philosophy. OG was IU's most effective defensive player as he led in steals in MPG. More importantly he could defend the lane and alter or block shots which kept opponents off guard when testing the middle. When OG went down, IU had no one in the lane who could defend and intimidate. IU greatly needs a nasty post defensive presence.

The only other player effective on defense was DG when you look at steals and rebounds. It did seem at the end of the year that IU was most competitive when DG was on the floor and I wonder if that is part of the reason RJ and JBJ are testing the waters.

Barring injury I think DG sees an increase in time next year because of his ability to defend and his offensive numbers were decent with the exception of the turnovers which I expect to go down with CAM placing more emphasis on possessions.

Look for Smith to see opportunities as I don't expect much defensively from CH (knee). If Smith can provide any of the defensive presence inside that OG had that is IU's greatest need. Look for CAM to recruit some aggressive tough lane defenders in the future as that is what IU is sorely missing. Hopefully a different emphasis on stopping teams can turn DD and JM into an intimidating duo inside.

I don't look at stats and efficiency numbers, but you're describing a very different defender in OG than I saw. Much like Troy, I thought OG had the capability to be a great defender, but never committed to it and was often out of position, especially to help. That to me is the hard part about defensive ratings, is so much of good defense is team defense. You have to be able to trust your teammates to do the right things. Otherwise my guy might get a basket, because I had to help because your guy beat you, I came over to help and then my guy gets an easy basket on the pass. Anyway, saw no commitment to that kind of team defense and precious little of good man D period. Agreed, hope AM corrects that!

 

[ufo33]

Returning players are going to learn new concepts of Pack Line team defense. Good defense should become a constant at IU under Coach Archie Miller.

 

[jaypay23]

I don't look at stats and efficiency numbers, but you're describing a very different defender in OG than I saw. Much like Troy, I thought OG had the capability to be a great defender, but never committed to it and was often out of position, especially to help. That to me is the hard part about defensive ratings, is so much of good defense is team defense. You have to be able to trust your teammates to do the right things. Otherwise my guy might get a basket, because I had to help because your guy beat you, I came over to help and then my guy gets an easy basket on the pass. Anyway, saw no commitment to that kind of team defense and precious little of good man D period. Agreed, hope AM corrects that!

OG was very committed to defense it was Crean that was not.

 

[ufo33]

Crean's style of play was the root cause for the inconsistent results during his tenure. No emphasis on tough hard nosed Defense, positionless offense with drive and kick 3s and wild passes while in the air or in heavy traffic in the lane which many times resulted in a unforced turnover. Big men not utilized in the post. No real post moves taught to post players. More 3pt shots or drives by post players than catch and seal or drop step and pivot post moves that Butler uses every year usually by an undersized 4 or 5.

 

[hoosier_est_1984]

I guess I just watch a completely different game BC I was not impressed at all with Green or Mcswain. (Yet they were highly praised over the season on this board)
Yet I WAS impressed with Davis, & somewhat Mcroberts/cujo. (Who fans on here had atleast as much neg to say about them as pos. )

I'm really hoping these 'Crean' recruits work for Miller, BC if not I'm really gut-worried about Iu once our current starting lineup is gone

 

[hoosier_est_1984]

I don't look at stats and efficiency numbers, but you're describing a very different defender in OG than I saw. Much like Troy, I thought OG had the capability to be a great defender, but never committed to it and was often out of position, especially to help. That to me is the hard part about defensive ratings, is so much of good defense is team defense. You have to be able to trust your teammates to do the right things. Otherwise my guy might get a basket, because I had to help because your guy beat you, I came over to help and then my guy gets an easy basket on the pass. Anyway, saw no commitment to that kind of team defense and precious little of good man D period. Agreed, hope AM corrects that!

After O.g's freshman season I thought he was the next greatest thing for Iu.

After this season/before he was injured...
Still.impressive /exciting for sure, but only at moments, (inconsistent/didnt seem to grow as a player but instead plateaued)

 

[T.M.P.]

I don't look at stats and efficiency numbers, but you're describing a very different defender in OG than I saw. Much like Troy, I thought OG had the capability to be a great defender, but never committed to it and was often out of position, especially to help. That to me is the hard part about defensive ratings, is so much of good defense is team defense. You have to be able to trust your teammates to do the right things. Otherwise my guy might get a basket, because I had to help because your guy beat you, I came over to help and then my guy gets an easy basket on the pass. Anyway, saw no commitment to that kind of team defense and precious little of good man D period. Agreed, hope AM corrects that!

OG and Troy were both called good defenders by Crean because they had great physical characteristics that good defenders have. But, do you remember the multiple times that Vic or OG guarded *insert name here* and held them to half of their scoring average or less? Me either. How about Dane Fife? Almost every player he guarded.

Crean's idea of defense is vastly different than most coaches. He emphasized deflections as a way to show good defense and I bet both Vic and OG had great deflection counts but I'm thinking points per possession allowed is a better measure.

fwiw - Crean didn't like helping on defense because he believed that it caused breakdowns, he complained about over helping constantly, but then he switched defense in mid possession for 3 months which caused more breakdowns than any opposing offense ever could have.

The guy just buys into gimmicks. He thinks he's the smartest coach on the court, and does all these weird strange gimmicky things to prove it. Only, they don't work, ever. There's a reason other coaches call him "Tommy Basketball" and that nickname is not a compliment.

I am so glad he's gone. He was as far away from "Indiana Basketball" as a coach could be.

 

[Frosty83]

I don't look at stats and efficiency numbers, but you're describing a very different defender in OG than I saw. Much like Troy, I thought OG had the capability to be a great defender, but never committed to it and was often out of position, especially to help. That to me is the hard part about defensive ratings, is so much of good defense is team defense. You have to be able to trust your teammates to do the right things. Otherwise my guy might get a basket, because I had to help because your guy beat you, I came over to help and then my guy gets an easy basket on the pass. Anyway, saw no commitment to that kind of team defense and precious little of good man D period. Agreed, hope AM corrects that!

We had a 6'10" player in HS that most of us thought was horrible, but after he graduated our scoring defense got much worse. Having that size or that athlete makes a difference. If you look at OG's rebounds and steals per minutes played there is no one else on IU even close. For the style TC wanted to play he needed that kind of athlete.

I do agree that all of them could play better with a different approach to defense.

 

[82hoosier]

Crean's style of play was the root cause for the inconsistent results during his tenure. No emphasis on tough hard nosed Defense, positionless offense with drive and kick 3s and wild passes while in the air or in heavy traffic in the lane which many times resulted in a unforced turnover. Big men not utilized in the post. No real post moves taught to post players. More 3pt shots or drives by post players than catch and seal or drop step and pivot post moves that Butler uses every year usually by an undersized 4 or 5.

Don't forget his propensity to recruit players who had no business having scholarships.

 

[BrewCityCy]

OG and Troy were both called good defenders by Crean because they had great physical characteristics that good defenders have. But, do you remember the multiple times that Vic or OG guarded *insert name here* and held them to half of their scoring average or less? Me either. How about Dane Fife? Almost every player he guarded.

Crean's idea of defense is vastly different than most coaches. He emphasized deflections as a way to show good defense and I bet both Vic and OG had great deflection counts but I'm thinking points per possession allowed is a better measure.

fwiw - Crean didn't like helping on defense because he believed that it caused breakdowns, he complained about over helping constantly, but then he switched defense in mid possession for 3 months which caused more breakdowns than any opposing offense ever could have.

The guy just buys into gimmicks. He thinks he's the smartest coach on the court, and does all these weird strange gimmicky things to prove it. Only, they don't work, ever. There's a reason other coaches call him "Tommy Basketball" and that nickname is not a compliment.

I am so glad he's gone. He was as far away from "Indiana Basketball" as a coach could be.

Crean is viewed as a master promoter and joke by most of his fellow coaches. He rode Wade to a Final Four, only to get destroyed by Kansas by 33.
I know four college coaches, and a former NBA assistant. My first received text after landing Archie was "Great hire. Welcome back to the league."

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

OG and Troy were both called good defenders by Crean because they had great physical characteristics that good defenders have.

This is so very true.

I'm glad OG is going to cash his lottery ticket and get paid, but a selfish part of me really would have loved to see him be coached by Miller for a year. He'd have really been a defensive beast after being taught great defense fundamentals.

There's a reason other coaches call him "Tommy Basketball" and that nickname is not a compliment.

And people wonder why we didn't get recruits in this state. If the coaches see it, don't people think it'll get around?

I heard the mother of a Mr. BB tell Buckley not to bother recruiting junior "because he's not going to go play for some flake."

I am so glad he's gone. He was as far away from "Indiana Basketball" as a coach could be.

Junk defenses - when defense was played at all.
High turnover rates.
Excessive dribbling and an over-reliance on offense for continued success.

This was not the basketball most of us was raised on - and before you say "Get over Bobby Knight", listen, RMK DID NOT coach my high school team. Nor any of the HS teams in the state, where coaches taught fundamental basketball. Knight was embraced by this state because the way his teams played were molded after what so many here in the state were used to - good basketball, fundamental basketball.

And we're not even counting the extra-curricular crap: blow-by handshakes, cutting down nets after a loss on Senior Day, holding up signs from the bench on how to play, offering a scholarship to EVERYONE and Creaning guys out of the program to make room for his roster mis-management. And the coup de gras: your strength coach dancing around on the sidelines like an idiot and talking trash to opposing players as they shot free throws.

How will Archie do? I really think he'll do quite well, mainly because of the things he emphasizes. But there is no doubt he'll be a VAST improvement over his predecessor.

 

[TR32]

Returning players are going to learn new concepts of Pack Line team defense. Good defense should become a constant at IU under Coach Archie Miller.

Not new concepts. Old concepts.

I think that Durham looks like he has the quickness and athleticism to be an effective defensive guard. If he scores all his baskets off of steals and breaks that will be just fine by me.

 

[TR32]

I hope that CAM can be more dedicated to a defensive philosophy. OG was IU's most effective defensive player as he led in steals in MPG. More importantly he could defend the lane and alter or block shots which kept opponents off guard when testing the middle. When OG went down, IU had no one in the lane who could defend and intimidate. IU greatly needs a nasty post defensive presence.

The only other player effective on defense was DG when you look at steals and rebounds. It did seem at the end of the year that IU was most competitive when DG was on the floor and I wonder if that is part of the reason RJ and JBJ are testing the waters.

Barring injury I think DG sees an increase in time next year because of his ability to defend and his offensive numbers were decent with the exception of the turnovers which I expect to go down with CAM placing more emphasis on possessions.

Look for Smith to see opportunities as I don't expect much defensively from CH (knee). If Smith can provide any of the defensive presence inside that OG had that is IU's greatest need. Look for CAM to recruit some aggressive tough lane defenders in the future as that is what IU is sorely missing. Hopefully a different emphasis on stopping teams can turn DD and JM into an intimidating duo inside.

I agree with many of your comments. Green stood out this year in that he got up on the ball pretty well. He sort of bounded right past his guy a lot and it cost him, but at least he was actually playing active defense.

I don't think some of IU's guys understand that defense means stopping the ball, not stopping the off-chance that he might pass it your way from seven feet back.