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Discussion in 'IU Football Board' started by HermanB, Nov 30, 2019.
You clowns that doubt CTA’s approach. LEO, etc, need to get over it. The Hoosiers are back!
I love CTA..... I don’t like “LEO” but it’s his program and working in his view ..... the tears are old also.... reminds me of a U of L coach who destroyed a program implementing something similar.
You are talking about a guy who wears his emotions on his sleeve. He has done an amazing job changing the culture. They are finding ways to win as opposed to finding ways to lose.
Been a long time since 8 wins-you may not remember. But I do. Hoping we keep the momentum this time. Maybe you wanted to run off Mallory?
I think he is a Hoosier first no doubt and it is great having someone who LOVES the State of Indiana as much as other Hoosiers. He has done an amazing job with the culture.
Yep! As in back to the future. Only this time it wasn’t Marty McFly in the 1950s. Rather Bill Mallory in the late 1980s
Your posts are soooo insightful...
I am not the personality type who needs - or even really understands - that sort of motivation, but in truth we are commanded to love one another.
I'm pretty lousy at it. Most of the time, I wish I was better at it.
If CTA can build that sort of program with players who buy into it, more power to him. Everyone concerned will be better for it.
It's easy to mock. Better by far to encourage, even if I don't quite get it. Hell, yeah! LEO.
As in back from mediocrity from 25 years ago. Surely you get that right?
At least you “get it” i think
I understand the desire to encourage it.... the comparison is to Kragthorpe at U of L. He did the same type of thing. He even implemented required reading that was religion based to “better” the players and according to players, if you didn’t read and participate in “voluntary” meetings/bible studies, you didn’t play.
it crept in under Kragthorpe and the team suffered for it. I am seeing reference to this type of environment leaking out of CTA in interviews. Is it wrong? All I know is it went terribly wrong in Louisville.
I go to mass every Sunday. Dad was a minister. I see the value as a young man what biblical teachings do for young men. I just don’t think it belongs on a football team and we have seen it fail. It doesn’t personally resonate with me as something that GUIDES the program and I believe it will turn prospect players ...some... against the program.
with that said, he is having success that IU has not seen in a long time at IU. It’s his pot of stew. As long as he is winning great. It will be heavily criticized if the program falters and doesn’t continue its climb. There are worst things that can happen to young men. But that isn’t my concern. I want a winning program full of talented people and I’d hate to alienate a portion of the recruiting base out of the gate simply for something so rediculous.
Dabo Swinney has turned Clemson into a powerhouse using his faith as a cornerstone of the culture he built there. I see nothing wrong with what TA is doing with the culture he is building and the message he is using to get recruits.
There has not been any indication that Coaches faith is being forced down any players throat that I have heard of...
You don't have to like it.
But how many programs keep a QB who lost his job after starting for two years? His players believe in it. Teammates are more important than themselves. Ramsey said he never thought about leaving. That a credit to him but also the team culture. That culture doesn't exist in many places.
Exactly. I think it's a mistake to confuse the message of "LEO" with proselytizing. I know a couple of people who have worked closely with CTA (both in a direct faith-related way) and neither has indicated any attempt to impose religion on players.
From 30+ years of coaching at the high school level, I can say confidently that it is an enormous benefit to have players who really like and care about their teammates. Having players who genuinely care about each other takes care of a lot of peripheral issues. They play harder in order to avoid disappointing their teammates. They actively care about helping struggling players, especially younger players. They are comfortable giving and receiving instruction and criticism to each other. They want to be around each other socially, which keeps a lot of "borderline" kids from getting into trouble.
Most importantly, they feel like a family with a common goal. That matters more than people outside the program ever understand. I would expect that it is especially important to kids who are hundreds of miles away from home and family for the first time. When I hear "LEO" this is how I interpret it and I completely support it. I have to think it appeals to far more recruits and parents than it turns off.
The caveat to all of this though is that it has to be genuine. Once kids are in the program, they can spot phony rhetoric and bs from a mile away. They know whether coaches are sincere in their concern for the players or just self-serving. They especially are turned off by coaches who treat star players differently than others, or avoid imposing discipline on players if it means risking a win. Kids with high character won't lead in that environment, and kids with low character soon are doing as they please. That's a toxic situation that will ultimately blow up in a coach's face. I have a strong sense that Mr. Dantonio is finding that out this year.
I like Allen. He got it done this year. Here are the facts of what we accomplished this year:
Ball State 5-7 (4-4)
Eastern Illinois 1-11 (1-7)
UConn 2-10 (0-8)
Rutgers 2-10 (0-9)
Maryland 3-9 (1-8)
Nebraska 5-7 (3-6)
Northwestern 3-9 (1-8)
Purdue 4-8 (3-6)
Overall 25-71 (13-56)
Ohio State 12-0 (9-0)
Michigan State 6-6 (4-5)
Penn State 10-2 (7-2)
Michigan 9-3 (6-3)
Overall 37-11 (26-10)
The reality is we beat eight below average teams, and lost to one average team and three above average teams. I think that puts us around average. Allen got it done this year, and he has us moving in the upward direction. That said, I am not chalking up a bowl next year.
Not only does it belong on a football team, it belongs everywhere, with the caveat that it's done correctly.
I have been in the situation you describe vis Kragthorpe at a place of employment. The CEO's mantra was discipleship and readings were "required". I think he was a genuinely decent guy who confused his own self-interest with Jesus's. It never did jibe with me. I made the same mistake once myself. Turns out it's far more important that I live my own belief (in this case, I was not Christian) and insist that my employees follow the processes that get the result I am after than that my employees dogmatically believe what I believe. Surprisingly - or not - the employees sort themselves, and that's a good thing.
A team of players and leaders committed to each other and focused on one goal outside of narrow self-interest is a beautiful thing, understanding that acting in your own - and your employees - enlightened self-interest is also right and proper. It needn't even be particularly Christian. It goes off the rails whenever you forget what you are and whom you serve.
Obviously with our program's history, it's hard to expect success. That said, you don't foresee a bowl game next year given the fact that so many of our best players are only freshmen or sophomores and will only be better next year? Besides, look at our schedule. We have WKU, BSU, MD, MSU, PSU, ILL, and PU at home next year. I'd say we should win all of those aside from PSU. Aside from that, we have UCONN and Rutgers that should also be Ws.
It's hard for me to imagine us NOT winning at least 6 next season.
What are you hearing in interviews? I'm hearing brief references to God (I think he said "to the glory of God" during an interview after the Bucket game) and I don't see anything wrong with that. Also, that's a far cry from making playing time contingent upon participation in bible studies. That, obviously, would be a bad idea.
Allen's not the first coach for whom his Christian faith is extremely important (Tony Dungy immediately comes to mind). And loving your neighbor as yourself was a recurring theme of Christ. Sounds like a good message for everyone, Christian or not.
Allen is solid - - a faith-based guy of character. He's the kind of person I'd like leading my kids.
If our defense does not get better, we can lose to any of those teams.
I'll be the first to admit that our defense needs to improve vastly to compete with PSU and Michigan (OSU is another level from them), but lets not forget we had two shut outs this year and 2 games where we only gave up 3 points. That is six points in four games and two of them were against Big Ten schools. We need to improve but we showed flashes this year.
We were inconsistent but we also had 4 games where we allowed a combined 6 points. 2 of which were conference games.
Our defense guaranteed wins against Eastern Illinois, Rutgers, and Northwestern so there’s three wins. We limped through the Ball State game, but did enough. We gave up 40 to MSU, 28 to Maryland, 31 to Nebraska, and 31 to Purdue (in regulation). When we give up this many points, we leave the results up to a few plays at the end of the game. It’s almost a coin toss. We went 4-1 in those games. Further, our defense didn’t even give us a chance against OSU, Penn State, and Michigan. We played well enough this year, but going 1-4 in those close games would have put us at 5-7.
Our defense did give us a chance to win against Penn State. We had two possessions stolen from us (albeit Whop should have gotten away from that punt). Not saying we played on a premier level but they gave us a chance to win that game.
Look at the program that Bill McCartney built at Colorado. He went a quite bit over the top and he didn’t exactly practice what he preached all the time.
Does anybody think that members of CKW’s staff we’re not looking the other way when Antonio Allen was selling heroin?
Wtf? No opponent had a chance against OSU. And the reason we didn't have a chance against Penn State wasn't because of our defense - - it was because of the refs.
Regarding Michigan, yeah, the D disappeared in the second half - - possibly our worst half of football all season.
Defense needed a stop in 4th Q and PSU went on an 8 minute drive to seal it.
D also was nowhere to be found in WL. No way we allow a walk-on QB to throw for 400+ in the rain and allowed Purdue's first 100 yard rusher of the season, another walk-on.
Just a quick reminder: *We Have the Bucket.*
I was responding to the other poster's claim about our "no chance" games. Agreed, our defense didn't play very well against Purdue but if Justus had kicked like he usually does, the game wouldn't have been particularly close. And, as 76-1 said, we won back the Bucket and that's the bottom line.
I was just saying the defense sort of fell apart as the year went on, basically. Of course we won and that's what matters. Defense needs fixed to be better than we are. Offense is there and hopefully stays there (or rather stays here!).
Call me a clown. Going 8-4 by beating the five (5) worst teams in the Big Ten does indicate your "back." Nor does beating we beat the teams we should beat ...though that certainly is an improvement and big step forward. We have A great deal of work to do. we need to be able to beat at least some of the the teams in the upper tier of the big Ten to get respect. Time will tell if Allen has brought the program to a new level. One year "where all the planets aligned" will not. Also, the term "back" is totally inappropriate as the program has historically been one of the worst in the BTN. Perhaps "turned the corner" or "finally arrived" are better terms. Going "back" is not an option.