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CTA can change IUFB this weekend ... and the great goose dropping debate

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"Utilize Scott, keep the Purdue offense off the field" was the EXACT game plan that Debord used - Scott got 2/3rds of the touches when IU wasn't in 3rd in long through the first 3 quarters. And that worked at keeping Purdue off the field, but the problem was the IU couldn't find the endzone with that strategy. The offense opened up when IU abandoned the run game.


Imo, DeBord's refusal to throw intermediate passes over the middle, the entire year, but especially against Purdue, killed our offense. We were either dink & dunk, WR screens (which rarely worked because the opponents DBs were drawn up so close to our WRs) or low % sideline jump balls down the field. When we finally thew over the middle against Purdue, we hit 4 in a row. We could have, and should have, been doing that the whole game.

I'm not talking about 20-25 yds downfield, but rather 10-15 yds. We got killed the entire year by 10-15 yd slant passes across the middle, but we refused to throw them.

I think he was afraid of ints....we got those anyway, 13 thrown by PR v. 19 TDs, most on little tipped passes on our dinks & dunks.

edit....I neglected to mention the repeated fade routes to the corner of the end zone every time we got in the red zone......every time I saw one of those I knew our kicker was not far behind.
 
"Utilize Scott, keep the Purdue offense off the field" was the EXACT game plan that Debord used - Scott got 2/3rds of the touches when IU wasn't in 3rd in long through the first 3 quarters. And that worked at keeping Purdue off the field, but the problem was the IU couldn't find the endzone with that strategy. The offense opened up when IU abandoned the run game.
I almost agree with you. Almost.

It's just that Ramsey threw the ball 51 times in the game. We didn't have 51 third and fourth down situations. We threw way too much.

Stevie had 20 carries, Ramsey had 7 (incl. sacks) and Ronnie only ran the ball ONCE.

We threw the ball almost TWICE as much as we ran it in a game when the largest lead was 2TDs and only 1 TD for most of the game.

The math clearly shows the game plan was very bad.

Bad game plan + Undisciplined play = Bad coaching
 
I almost agree with you. Almost.

It's just that Ramsey threw the ball 51 times in the game. We didn't have 51 third and fourth down situations. We threw way too much.

Stevie had 20 carries, Ramsey had 7 (incl. sacks) and Ronnie only ran the ball ONCE.

We threw the ball almost TWICE as much as we ran it in a game when the largest lead was 2TDs and only 1 TD for most of the game.

The math clearly shows the game plan was very bad.

Bad game plan + Undisciplined play = Bad coaching


Bottom line is we needed to keep Moore from catching two long TD passes. We could have lived with one. His #s for our game were as good as any he had all year......tied for 1st with 12 catches, 3 other games where he had 2 TDs, 2nd most yards.

Our O should have been able to score at least 28 v. Purdue's D, but we all knew it wouldn't. And it didn't.
 
Bottom line is we needed to keep Moore from catching two long TD passes. We could have lived with one. His #s for our game were as good as any he had all year......tied for 1st with 12 catches, 3 other games where he had 2 TDs, 2nd most yards.

Our O should have been able to score at least 28 v. Purdue's D, but we all knew it wouldn't. And it didn't.
I can understand Moore going off. He did it all year.

For me it was Jones and his ridiculous 8.5 ypc average. Why couldn't we freaking tackle him? Last year he embarrassed Scales. This year, it was Ball getting dragged into the end zone for a 35yd TD.

Awful, awful tackling technique in the box.
 
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I can understand Moore going off. He did it all year.

For me it was Jones and his ridiculous 8.5 ypc average. Why couldn't we freaking tackle him? Last year he embarrassed Scales. This year, it was Ball getting dragged into the end zone for a 35yd TD.

Awful, awful tackling technique in the box.


I think it came down to them wanting it more, which I in turn assign to their greater belief in their coaching staff. I'm not saying our players don't like & respect our coaches as men. LEO. But as screwed up as that game was, our chances came down to one drive where our D needed to turn them over....and they ran the ball down our throat. And no one was surprised. You could see with 5 games to go in the season that we couldn't slow Moore down, and couldn't stop anyone from running on us if they wanted it bad enough.

Look at the MD game....we won, but they had 175 more yds than us. That win was a fluke.
 
I think it came down to them wanting it more, which I in turn assign to their greater belief in their coaching staff. I'm not saying our players don't like & respect our coaches as men. LEO. But as screwed up as that game was, our chances came down to one drive where our D needed to turn them over....and they ran the ball down our throat. And no one was surprised. You could see with 5 games to go in the season that we couldn't slow Moore down, and couldn't stop anyone from running on us if they wanted it bad enough.

Look at the MD game....we won, but they had 175 more yds than us. That win was a fluke.
I don't think the Maryland game was a fluke at all. They are very one-dimensional on Offense and, while we let them have too many yards, it's all about the scoreboard and their running offense couldn't put points on the board when they needed it.

Plus, we were just coming off a bye week and had plenty of time to game-plan for them.
 
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I think it came down to them wanting it more, which I in turn assign to their greater belief in their coaching staff. I'm not saying our players don't like & respect our coaches as men. LEO. But as screwed up as that game was, our chances came down to one drive where our D needed to turn them over....and they ran the ball down our throat. And no one was surprised. You could see with 5 games to go in the season that we couldn't slow Moore down, and couldn't stop anyone from running on us if they wanted it bad enough.

Look at the MD game....we won, but they had 175 more yds than us. That win was a fluke.
You're nothing if not predictable. Our losses, in your view, are always bad losses, and now our wins are "flukes." Amazing.

Miami's win over the Patriots yesterday was a fluke. There was nothing flukey about our win over Maryland. We forced some key turnovers and were up 31-15 at one point.

Your anti-IU bias is showing.
 
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You're nothing if not predictable. Our losses, in your view, are always bad losses, and now our wins are "flukes." Amazing.

Miami's win over the Patriots yesterday was a fluke. There was nothing flukey about our win over Maryland. We forced some key turnovers and were up 31-15 at one point.

Your anti-IU bias is showing.


Back at you bowl boy. Too bad we couldn't beat Minnesota & get that 6th win that would have made you so ecstatic.

Over the years we've had some lucky wins and some unlucky losses. I don't think any fall within that category this year other than MD.

Consider that we were out gained in the first quarter by 169 to 12. Or that they had 542 total yards to our 374, including 189 passing yds to our 243, or that despite 3 prior careless TOs by MD we had only a 2 point lead going into the last minute, only as a result of Justus' 42 yd FG. We had once again failed to score a TD when it would have put the game away, just like at Minnesota. Had he missed that FG, CTA would have been rightfully roasted on this forum. Or that MD was 25 yds from kicking a winning FG until their 4th careless error, by their 2nd team QB. So yes, indeed, it was indeed a lucky-ass win. Nothing wrong with one of those, but call a spade a spade.
 
Imo, DeBord's refusal to throw intermediate passes over the middle, the entire year, but especially against Purdue, killed our offense. We were either dink & dunk, WR screens (which rarely worked because the opponents DBs were drawn up so close to our WRs) or low % sideline jump balls down the field. When we finally thew over the middle against Purdue, we hit 4 in a row. We could have, and should have, been doing that the whole game.

I'm not talking about 20-25 yds downfield, but rather 10-15 yds. We got killed the entire year by 10-15 yd slant passes across the middle, but we refused to throw them.

I think he was afraid of ints....we got those anyway, 13 thrown by PR v. 19 TDs, most on little tipped passes on our dinks & dunks.

edit....I neglected to mention the repeated fade routes to the corner of the end zone every time we got in the red zone......every time I saw one of those I knew our kicker was not far behind.
First off a slant is not an intermediate pattern the receiver takes 3 steps off the los and breaks at a 45 degree angle and the pass is supposed to be delivered. The next thing is Timian caught a ton of balls over the middle on crossing routes both before and after his injury. Next thing was many of Ramsey ints happened in the Red Zone where the windows are smaller and was tough to squeeze the ball in or they were late in games when trailing and had to throw.
 
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Better coaching takes equal (or relatively equal talent) and beats you.
IU has everything set up for the last game vs Purdue. Home game, Purdue coming off a 3-OT loss at home. The better coach won. That’s where coaches earn their paycheck.
Some coaches just have the “it” factor and it’s simple as that. Debord didn’t realize the game plan that would have worked. He just simply didn’t see it.
Utilize Scott, keep the Purdue offense off the field. I just think this setup is very parallel to the Tiller-Cameron era. Seems eerily similar.
i thought you became an alabama fan. what brought you back?
 
Better coaching takes equal (or relatively equal talent) and beats you.
IU has everything set up for the last game vs Purdue. Home game, Purdue coming off a 3-OT loss at home. The better coach won. That’s where coaches earn their paycheck.
Some coaches just have the “it” factor and it’s simple as that. Debord didn’t realize the game plan that would have worked. He just simply didn’t see it.
Utilize Scott, keep the Purdue offense off the field. I just think this setup is very parallel to the Tiller-Cameron era. Seems eerily similar.
can you please explain the "it" factor?
 
Back at you bowl boy. Too bad we couldn't beat Minnesota & get that 6th win that would have made you so ecstatic.

Over the years we've had some lucky wins and some unlucky losses. I don't think any fall within that category this year other than MD.

Consider that we were out gained in the first quarter by 169 to 12. Or that they had 542 total yards to our 374, including 189 passing yds to our 243, or that despite 3 prior careless TOs by MD we had only a 2 point lead going into the last minute, only as a result of Justus' 42 yd FG. We had once again failed to score a TD when it would have put the game away, just like at Minnesota. Had he missed that FG, CTA would have been rightfully roasted on this forum. Or that MD was 25 yds from kicking a winning FG until their 4th careless error, by their 2nd team QB. So yes, indeed, it was indeed a lucky-ass win. Nothing wrong with one of those, but call a spade a spade.
would you rather we had lost?
 
Mallory had some successful years. One would have thought Cameron might have worked out. Remember a guy named Sam Wyche? He must have been a pretty good coach, no?
Wyche stayed one year and did more to wreck the program than anyone who coached here. Thank God, Mallory followed him.
 
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"Utilize Scott, keep the Purdue offense off the field" was the EXACT game plan that Debord used - Scott got 2/3rds of the touches when IU wasn't in 3rd in long through the first 3 quarters. And that worked at keeping Purdue off the field, but the problem was the IU couldn't find the endzone with that strategy. The offense opened up when IU abandoned the run game.
Disagree...Scott touched the ball 20 times. We threw it 51 times. Scott wasn't used enough. AND our defense gave up big plays.

Agree with goody and BRCB our class was at the bottom but you have to coach those guys up. Brohms staff did OURS didn't.

Again if we lose the bucket 3 years straight Allens seat should be boiling. We are settling for below mediocrity and thats just what it is.

I watched Mel Tucker and family come in to Colorado a few days back and get a tour of the facilities which were just completed. During his press conference he mentioned how his kids said "We can win here". Keep in mind the facilities were just done and he is coming from stops like Georgia and Bama and was totally impressed. POINT IS...

IU is also coming off new facilities and this year a new locker room as well as other builds. There is a time to strike while the iron is hot. If these kids come out shooting themselves in the foot again for a straight 3rd year and cant go bowling OR beat purdue a change needs to be made. JMHO
 
Disagree...Scott touched the ball 20 times. We threw it 51 times. Scott wasn't used enough. AND our defense gave up big plays.

Agree with goody and BRCB our class was at the bottom but you have to coach those guys up. Brohms staff did OURS didn't.

Again if we lose the bucket 3 years straight Allens seat should be boiling. We are settling for below mediocrity and thats just what it is.

I watched Mel Tucker and family come in to Colorado a few days back and get a tour of the facilities which were just completed. During his press conference he mentioned how his kids said "We can win here". Keep in mind the facilities were just done and he is coming from stops like Georgia and Bama and was totally impressed. POINT IS...

IU is also coming off new facilities and this year a new locker room as well as other builds. There is a time to strike while the iron is hot. If these kids come out shooting themselves in the foot again for a straight 3rd year and cant go bowling OR beat purdue a change needs to be made. JMHO

Yes, we threw 51 times, but about 17 of those came in the 4th quarter. Through 3 quarters Scott had run the ball 19 times already, others ran the ball 8 times, and we passed the ball 34 times. And of the 34 passes, 22 were long yardage 2nd or 3rd down.

Yes looking at the final box score it looks like we didn’t use Scott enough, but 4th quarter really skews things. Had we not switched gears offensively, Scott was on track for around 26 carries, which would have be his 3rd highest total of the season. But we had to switch gears because we only had 7 pts
 
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Yes, we threw 51 times, but about 17 of those came in the 4th quarter. Through 3 quarters Scott had run the ball 19 times already, others ran the ball 8 times, and we passed the ball 34 times. And of the 34 passes, 22 were long yardage 2nd or 3rd down.

Yes looking at the final box score it looks like we didn’t use Scott enough, but 4th quarter really skews things. Had we not switched gears offensively, Scott was on track for around 26 carries, which would have be his 3rd highest total of the season. But we had to switch gears because we only had 7 pts
I watched the game...No we did not use Scott enough. Go back and look at the play by play. In the first half every time we threw the ball double the times we ran it during a drive we turned the ball over on downs. The only drive we scored on in the first half we ran it 7 times and passed for 8. Scott scored running the ball.

The other time we ran the ball alot we had a stupid penalty and turned the ball over on downs on purdues 24. That drive started at our own 20 and featured 9 runs and 5 passes.

Bottom line if we don't go bowling, OR lose again to purdue for the 3rd straight year are the fans willing to settle for that again?
 
A "true fan" question? No, I've been watching football since 1966. I'd rather we win every game.

But unlike some on this board, being a true fan does not keep me from looking at the situation objectively.
I do agree about being objective and realistic. Years of not doing things right are not going to be corrected in a year and a half. You can’t just look at wins and losses when winning seasons are not the norm. You can’t just look at scoring stats without looking at the players. You can’t just look at the defensive stats and look at how many freshmen and sophomores are playing significant minutes. You have to look at everything. The good and the bad. See which out we
 
I watched the game...No we did not use Scott enough. Go back and look at the play by play. In the first half every time we threw the ball double the times we ran it during a drive we turned the ball over on downs. The only drive we scored on in the first half we ran it 7 times and passed for 8. Scott scored running the ball.

The other time we ran the ball alot we had a stupid penalty and turned the ball over on downs on purdues 24. That drive started at our own 20 and featured 9 runs and 5 passes.

Bottom line if we don't go bowling, OR lose again to purdue for the 3rd straight year are the fans willing to settle for that again?
Most fans I know aren’t willing to settle for it now. Let alone next year.

Attendance will be WAY down next year I can guarantee you that.
 
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You're right. Referring to the 2018 class as "outstanding" was a stretch. If memory serves, though, it was an improvement over Wilson's last couple, and it yielded some gems, including Penix and Head.
Don't forget about Monster, Williams, Jones, Stevie Scott, R. Walker, Taylor, and a number of others that showed talent in the games they played. The 2018 class is showing it is much better than you claim heading into the 2019 season.
 
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It is what it is...At least pull for the guy. BUT, I swear if we start beating ourselves again next year after no coaching changes were made (so far) this year something has to be done. Fred has to own this and if he has any smarts about it he needs to start preparing now by lining up the future coaches salary pot with donors.


Nothing from Fred about Goosecrapgate & concession stands debacle, and no coaching changes......crickets.....discouraging & odd. You would think somebody would have something to say. The one change that has been discussed, making someone else DC, seems misguided to me. CTA has shown he can two things pretty well, recruiting and DCing. Do we really want him more involved with the offense? I'd rather we get a really good OC and turn the offense over entirely to him.

With regard to coaching changes.....the coaches' conference ends Jan. 9th. One or two posters have said we might see something after that....but aren't all the current coaches recruiting now? Do we let one go after he's recruited x # of players?
 
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Nothing from Fred about Goosecrapgate & concession stands debacle, and no coaching changes......crickets.....discouraging & odd. You would think somebody would have something to say. The one change that has been discussed, making someone else DC, seems misguided to me. CTA has shown he can two things pretty well, recruiting and DCing. Do we really want him more involved with the offense? I'd rather we get a really good OC and turn the offense over entirely to him.

With regard to coaching changes.....the coaches' conference ends Jan. 9th. One or two posters have said we might see something after that....but aren't all the current coaches recruiting now? Do we let one go after he's recruited x # of players?
That is odd that he hasn't addressed the season ticket holders about the goosecrap and concession incident. That is just flat embarrassing. Someone should cover his office door with pics from that day. Better to communicate then let attitudes and minds spin out of control.

As far as the coaches conference we may have a few (3-4) more recruits headed this way after the early signing period. Thats on par with last year. All the coaches need to be in high gear right now anyways. I have to admit they got a couple late surprises last year but that full court press for Penix was sweet.
 
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Nothing from Fred about Goosecrapgate & concession stands debacle, and no coaching changes......crickets.....discouraging & odd. You would think somebody would have something to say. The one change that has been discussed, making someone else DC, seems misguided to me. CTA has shown he can two things pretty well, recruiting and DCing. Do we really want him more involved with the offense? I'd rather we get a really good OC and turn the offense over entirely to him.

With regard to coaching changes.....the coaches' conference ends Jan. 9th. One or two posters have said we might see something after that....but aren't all the current coaches recruiting now? Do we let one go after he's recruited x # of players?
Yes, that's how it's done - wait until the Coach's Conference. Happens every year.
 
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i thought you became an alabama fan. what brought you back?

Well, that’s true. Roll Tide! But, having grown up around IU football I still take in interest in the program and want to see it do well but the track record and current path doesn’t seem to be suggesting much change.

Too much emotional energy invested over the years to not still want to see it put things together.

As far as “it” factors for coaches, as another poster astutely mentioned:
“You know ‘it’ when you see it.”

It’s guys who transform programs. They look night and day compared to previous regimes. They do more with less. Their team has an identity. They are unconventional and mavericks. They have track records of success wherever they land. Mike Leach comes to mind. Jeff Brohm.
 
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That is odd that he hasn't addressed the season ticket holders about the goosecrap and concession incident. That is just flat embarrassing. Someone should cover his office door pics from that day. Better to communicate then let attitudes and minds spin out of control.

As far as the coaches conference we may have a few (3-4) more recruits headed this way after the early signing period. Thats on par with last year. All the coaches need to be in high gear right now anyways. I have to admit they got a couple late surprises last year but that full court press for Penix was sweet.

I am disappointed that the press has given them a free pass on all the gameday screw-ups.
 
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Why do you need to see another year of it? We’ve already seen two years. Only Indiana would do this.
Did you think before you typed that? Glass is not making a change this year nor should he. AND if you think another university would pull the plug after 2 years your smokin crack. Unless theres a scandal OR as Jon Embree did in Colorado, getting whooped by 50 at half every game there is not going to be a change. No coach in the country would even consider working for a LOOONEY BIN university firing a coach at this point....jeeeeesh
 
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That pretty much nails it...The defense needs to step up period.
Or... The coaches need to wake up and realize they need to score more points by opening up the offense. It was Allen himself that said he values points per possession rather than time of possession.
 
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Well, that’s true. Roll Tide! But, having grown up around IU football I still take in interest in the program and want to see it do well but the track record and current path doesn’t seem to be suggesting much change.

Too much emotional energy invested over the years to not still want to see it put things together.

As far as “it” factors for coaches, as another poster astutely mentioned:
“You know ‘it’ when you see it.”

It’s guys who transform programs. They look night and day compared to previous regimes. They do more with less. Their team has an identity. They are unconventional and mavericks. They have track records of success wherever they land. Mike Leach comes to mind. Jeff Brohm.
I agree with what you say here. You do know "it" when it's happening, much like with Mallory in the middle 80s. We are seeing "it" now at Purdue. When you paddle Ohio State in that manner and then work a decent Iowa team over, the proof is happening before your eyes.

What we are seeing at IU is a general uptick in recruiting. That's a very nice development considering just how lousy our recruiting truly was about a decade ago. I think it took the North endzone to boost recruiting just to a three star level. Our level before that was all two star people, it wasn't much above a Mid American conference level.

Tom seems to know enough about defense to possibly generate a bowl program but he's going to have to cut loose with some of his conservative philosophies and become more aggressive, particularly offensively. It was silly to wait until the Minnesota game to open up the offense, just completely goofy. Many of us thought it was silly for him to sit on MP as long as he did.

Wilson would've had "it" if Tom Allen had been here since Day One, but he had Doug Mallory instead. Doug cost KW dearly, no telling how much he cost KW. Jeff Brohm looks good at Purdue in large part because of Nick Holt, their DC. At least Jeff had the right man all along, he came with him from WKU.

Let's hope Tom's our "it" man! His recruiting is good, just imagine his recruiting with a bowl season.
 
I agree with what you say here. You do know "it" when it's happening, much like with Mallory in the middle 80s. We are seeing "it" now at Purdue. When you paddle Ohio State in that manner and then work a decent Iowa team over, the proof is happening before your eyes.

What we are seeing at IU is a general uptick in recruiting. That's a very nice development considering just how lousy our recruiting truly was about a decade ago. I think it took the North endzone to boost recruiting just to a three star level. Our level before that was all two star people, it wasn't much above a Mid American conference level.

Tom seems to know enough about defense to possibly generate a bowl program but he's going to have to cut loose with some of his conservative philosophies and become more aggressive, particularly offensively. It was silly to wait until the Minnesota game to open up the offense, just completely goofy. Many of us thought it was silly for him to sit on MP as long as he did.

Wilson would've had "it" if Tom Allen had been here since Day One, but he had Doug Mallory instead. Doug cost KW dearly, no telling how much he cost KW. Jeff Brohm looks good at Purdue in large part because of Nick Holt, their DC. At least Jeff had the right man all along, he came with him from WKU.

Let's hope Tom's our "it" man! His recruiting is good, just imagine his recruiting with a bowl season.
This.
 
I agree with what you say here. You do know "it" when it's happening, much like with Mallory in the middle 80s. We are seeing "it" now at Purdue. When you paddle Ohio State in that manner and then work a decent Iowa team over, the proof is happening before your eyes.

What we are seeing at IU is a general uptick in recruiting. That's a very nice development considering just how lousy our recruiting truly was about a decade ago. I think it took the North endzone to boost recruiting just to a three star level. Our level before that was all two star people, it wasn't much above a Mid American conference level.

Tom seems to know enough about defense to possibly generate a bowl program but he's going to have to cut loose with some of his conservative philosophies and become more aggressive, particularly offensively. It was silly to wait until the Minnesota game to open up the offense, just completely goofy. Many of us thought it was silly for him to sit on MP as long as he did.

Wilson would've had "it" if Tom Allen had been here since Day One, but he had Doug Mallory instead. Doug cost KW dearly, no telling how much he cost KW. Jeff Brohm looks good at Purdue in large part because of Nick Holt, their DC. At least Jeff had the right man all along, he came with him from WKU.

Let's hope Tom's our "it" man! His recruiting is good, just imagine his recruiting with a bowl season.
Spot on assessment
 
Well, that’s true. Roll Tide! But, having grown up around IU football I still take in interest in the program and want to see it do well but the track record and current path doesn’t seem to be suggesting much change.

Too much emotional energy invested over the years to not still want to see it put things together.

As far as “it” factors for coaches, as another poster astutely mentioned:
“You know ‘it’ when you see it.”

It’s guys who transform programs. They look night and day compared to previous regimes. They do more with less. Their team has an identity. They are unconventional and mavericks. They have track records of success wherever they land. Mike Leach comes to mind. Jeff Brohm.
i know shit when i see it. and you're full of it. that's my "it" factor.
 
That is odd that he hasn't addressed the season ticket holders about the goosecrap and concession incident. That is just flat embarrassing. Someone should cover his office door with pics from that day. Better to communicate then let attitudes and minds spin out of control.
As far as the coaches conference we may have a few (3-4) more recruits headed this way after the early signing period. Thats on par with last year. All the coaches need to be in high gear right now anyways. I have to admit they got a couple late surprises last year but that full court press for Penix was sweet.
Because there's nothing for him to say. Birds crap. That's what they do. Was he supposed to generate a force field over the stadium? I didn't have any problems at concession stands and I went to two different ones. Concession stands have lines. Just walk down and find one that doesn't.
These aren't controversies except to people whose starting point is "I hate Fred Glass".
 
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