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Discussion in 'IU Football Board' started by snowling, Dec 7, 2018.
Article does nice job pointing out that at end of day, PU’s last two seasons came down to 7-pt wins for bet IU and 6-6 seasons. Hardly world beating but yes, wish the script were flipped.
That said, Allen & IU seem to have good recruiting skills, and if this class continues as planned, and combines with last year’s best, the foundation will be there for potential breakthroughs ahead, maybe sooner than we think. David Bell would be the ultimate cherry on top.
Nice article and that is a great looking crop of recruits!
What the article is missing however, is the fact that Allen doesn't get enough out of the players he already has. His teams don't play up to potential... Yet.
The big question for me is: Can he and Debord get the team in position to get 4 star performance out of these 4 star players?
Jury is still out.
The challenge the last decade or so is not that recruiting hasn’t improved in comparison the the nation (it has), but that recruiting hasn’t markedly improved compared to our B1G peers. Unfortunately, our average star rating continually falls near the back of the pack in the B1G. It’s hard to consistently compete when your talent just doesn’t measure up in your own conference, and we’re just not going to make much headway long term until the average star rating is over a 3.0.
Here's the deal, though. Allen is recruiting these outstanding classes after 5-7 seasons. If we can manage a 6+ win season in '19 or '20, I have no doubt we'd move up even further in the recruiting rankings, both nationally and in the B1G.
And for now, all I want for Christmas is at least two of the three 4* guys mentioned in the article at the top of this thread.
Current class rating is over 3.0 and 6th in B1G! We still can add about 7 more recruits & they should help our ranking
I would tend to agree with the idea that Allen needs to be able to win with what he's got on hand. Indiana recruits better than Northwestern but the results aren't showing up. Indiana recruits very similar to an Iowa, yet Indiana doesn't produce results like Ferentz does at Iowa...at least not yet.
I think Allen's improved recruiting will pay off. The million dollar question is will it pay off for him, or the next coach? Hopefully it pays off for Tom!
The overall star ratings are up but where we still lag behind is line recruits. It's nice to get James and other good skill guys but we need the hogs to go with them or at least really good coaching, training and development for both lines. Kirk Ferentz knows how to get the most out of his line play, that is why they do better than us.
One more year! Go bowling OR lose to purdue 3 years straight BYE! Don't let the door hit ya in the ass. You have a chance CTA to coach at this level which you were blessed to receive. Put up or shut up!
Iowa has much better talent than us! I am not sure we have one position wth more talent than them.
Well you've continuously failed to put up anything worthy . . . can we expect you to follow your own advice? It's about time . . . .
Interesting development . . . Gophers just flipped a 4* DT from Alabama, of all programs . . .
It wasn't all good news for Nick Saban's staff on Saturday, however, as Rashad Cheney, the No. 15 defensive tackle (No. 215 overall), decommitted from the Tide and flipped to Minnesota.
. . . does that take the schollie Minny had open for Kristian Williams?
Amen. What an obnoxious post.
Over the years, IU has attracted many top skill players...but unfortunately its in the trenches that games are mostly won. And in that, we are still struggling to reach the rare air of Wilson. That's no real insult to Allen in the sense no other coach other than Wilson was able to attract enough top line talent to control the position...competitive maybe, but that's it. It the biggest hurdle for Allen...long way to go but not on the bottom either...imo
Purdoo is hosting a 4-star 2020 offensive tackle this weekend. IU needs to start bringing those hosses to campus and closing on them.
'rare air'..... lol
You really want to go there ? LOL try using a memory cell...if you've any left...lol
Feeney & Spriggs were great!, but not sure the Wilson era was truly “rare air” was it?
Sure, let's go there. Back up what you're saying.
Because if you want to talk about NFL linemen, Lynch had 3 playing for him.
Lynch also had 7 wins and a winning record, which Wilson never had.
But go ahead and 'go there' with your 'rare air'.
I largely agree and have said so for years. I've also been adamant that Purdue should never have a better football program than Indiana. I say that knowing very well the history of the programs, too. IU has just never put a good foot forward.
Mallory had some successful years. One would have thought Cameron might have worked out. Remember a guy named Sam Wyche? He must have been a pretty good coach, no?
How about let this recruiting class sign, see if any staff tweaks made now? Allen is 10-14 after two years. Not great and for sure one more game was winnable both years (PU as an example) which could have been a bowl each year.
But what if maturing talent and new QB were tonlead to a 7-5 year next year? Perceptions can change quickly.
I am willing to give the coach 4 years, but should things go deeply south next season that would be one thing. But if there are good results and signs of improvement, that should be cheered as well.
I agree with you. Let’s give CTA and staff at least a couple more years. He’s doing a better job than anyone since BM at upgrading our talent and depth. We are still not even up to the level that Maryland had been recruiting at but have managed to win a few from them in the last couple of years.
Some people post on here like we have already been recruiting at the Iowa level and that is just not the case. We need to have four or five classes in a row to be able to tell what these guys are able to do with just average B1G talent. We are not there yet.
Let them have four years to see how we develop and then we might be able to judge how well they can coach kids up and how well they can prepare a team for a certain opponent and how well they can make in game adjustments.
It's been 51 years since I became an IU fan and I finally came to the realization that other than a handful of fans on this board and a couple thousand fans in MS nobody cares. It's as if the powers that be are just going through the motions to field a fb team to stay in the BIG but remain totally satisfied if the team doesn't embarrass the university with problems or total ineptness.
The Hoosiers have had so many coaches fail that fans are reluctant to mentally invest in the program. That and no more pizza.
I'm in partial agreement. The current 2019 class is ranked 9/14 in the B1G and 6/14 by average star rating (which I think is a more accurate read). If that is maintained and duplicated in subsequent years, we should reasonably expect IU to win more games. BUT - the class isn't complete yet and it would be the first class of that quality. I'm not super confident in the likelihood that the complete class looks that competitive, but I hope I'm wrong. Last year's CTA class was ranked 10th overall in the B1G and 12th by average star rating - that's not an outstanding class, that's a really, really bad class. We will feel the effects of that class for several more years.
I'd love for you to receive your Christmas gift!
So last year’s class with all of the contributors is a “bad class?” That’s one that will include Penix who RS’d. Me thinks you are too quick to judge a class after one season.
Well, the average star rating last year was brought down by 4 2-star recruits, but if you look closer, 3 of those 4 had other P5 offers and 2 saw significant playing time this year (McFadden and Matthews).
And overall, I think there were only 2 commits that didn't have another P5 offer. Compare that to Purdue, who had 14 of their 24 commits without another P5 offer (14!!!) and Minnesota had 7 of 26 lacking a P5 offer. Both of which had higher average star ratings than IU.
I wouldn't agree that Purdue "never" should have had a better football program than IU because, through the 1960s, Purdue's relative proximity to Chicago & the Region was a huge advantage for them. See Otis Armstrong, Mike Alstott, Don Brumm, Abe Gibron, Jerry Shay among others. PU is also closer to Ft. Wayne, and FW was always a football hot spot (Rod Woodson). With that advantage Purdue was able to establish a reputation as a football school and attract some high profile players that more logically could/should have come to IU (Mike Phipps, Columbus, Bob Griese, Evansville).
I think Purdue's advantages have dissipated for several reasons. In the social media age, young people have very short memories. They have no sense of history. Also, Indiana football generally, but especially in Indianapolis, has improved to such an extent that Indiana's natural advantage in the area (more media coverage, alumni) should more than cancel out Purdue's relative proximity to Chicago/the Region/Ft. Wayne. I also think that, for the time being at least, IU's football stadium is a relative advantage that offsets the new facilities Purdue has built.
FYI - Alstott played in the 90s.
You're right. Referring to the 2018 class as "outstanding" was a stretch. If memory serves, though, it was an improvement over Wilson's last couple, and it yielded some gems, including Penix and Head.
One can only hope.
Think recruiting classes, like drafts by NFL Teams, cannot truly be judged for 2-3 years looking backwards.
If Penix lights it up and say became All-B10, would that still be seen as a 10th best B10 class in hindsight?
If players produce on the field, who cares? McFadden looks like a real player with size & speed, so if he was only a 2-star (as was Marcalino Ball wasn't he?) then give me a team full of 2-stars like them!
This is where I get frustrated with some of our fans. Crimson colored glasses are just as frustrating as all doom and gloom. I never said the class didn't have anybody worthy or any contributors, but compared to our B1G peers, as a whole, it leaves a lot to be desired. I know a lot of fans on here like to explain away class and star ratings and I've see countless silly arguments explaining how they don't matter by giving individual examples where it wasn't a great predictor. But when averaged, history is pretty damn clear that higher average star ratings for a class is a helluva lot better than lower. Yes, 12/14 in the B1G is bad; it can be a bad class while also having a few desirable and contributing guys in the bunch. It's not coincidence that, on average, teams that finish well-ranked typically have well-ranked recruiting classes. I don't see a lot of teams with recruiting classes that average 2.82 really lighting it up - that's my point. We need classes with an average star of 3.0+ consistently if we're to realistically expect a consistently competitive team that goes bowling more often than not.
I read lots of boards and rumors are that there are attitude problems here. Fleck is not in a position to be as choosey as St. Saban can be.
don't you think our coaching staff is trying to do just that? do you have any suggestions on how we can recruit better?
Here is a look at the star ratings of Iowa and NW for the previous 5 seasons
Iowa 3, 2.91, 2.88, 2.71, 2.75 - average 2.85
NW 2.94, 2.84, 2.90, 2.65, 3 - average 2.86
In other words IU's "bad" 2018 class (2.88 stars) is better than the average NW/Iowa classes over the last 5 years, which I think shows that you don't need 3+ consistently to be consistently competitive
Better coaching takes equal (or relatively equal talent) and beats you.
IU has everything set up for the last game vs Purdue. Home game, Purdue coming off a 3-OT loss at home. The better coach won. That’s where coaches earn their paycheck.
Some coaches just have the “it” factor and it’s simple as that. Debord didn’t realize the game plan that would have worked. He just simply didn’t see it.
Utilize Scott, keep the Purdue offense off the field. I just think this setup is very parallel to the Tiller-Cameron era. Seems eerily similar.
"Utilize Scott, keep the Purdue offense off the field" was the EXACT game plan that Debord used - Scott got 2/3rds of the touches when IU wasn't in 3rd in long through the first 3 quarters. And that worked at keeping Purdue off the field, but the problem was the IU couldn't find the endzone with that strategy. The offense opened up when IU abandoned the run game.