Coronavirus vaccine shipment delays . . .

[Sope Creek]

. . . are occurring . . . Pfizer says it hasn't received instructions for distribution of millions of doses in inventory. Apparently states have been expecting larger supplies . . . as much as a 40% drop from what was expected.

What's going on here? From the article:

Another person involved in the planning who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the situation said Pfizer executives were baffled the administration was not immediately distributing all of its vaccine, and instead leaving much of it on the shelves.

Wut?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/17/pfizer-vaccine-supply-states/

 

[Noodle]

. . . are occurring . . . Pfizer says it hasn't received instructions for distribution of millions of doses in inventory. Apparently states have been expecting larger supplies . . . as much as a 40% drop from what was expected.

What's going on here? From the article:

Another person involved in the planning who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the situation said Pfizer executives were baffled the administration was not immediately distributing all of its vaccine, and instead leaving much of it on the shelves.

Wut?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/17/pfizer-vaccine-supply-states/

I am baffled by the fact that Pfizer is baffled the administration is not acting prudently

 

[Sope Creek]

I am baffled by the fact that Pfizer is baffled the administration is not acting prudently

Sarcasm?

 

[Noodle]

Sarcasm?

Actually, no, not at all.

 

[Sope Creek]

Actually, no, not at all.

Was that sarcasm?

 

[IUINSB]

I am baffled by the fact that Pfizer is baffled the administration is not acting prudently

Warp speed. baby.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

. . . are occurring . . . Pfizer says it hasn't received instructions for distribution of millions of doses in inventory. Apparently states have been expecting larger supplies . . . as much as a 40% drop from what was expected.

What's going on here? From the article:

Another person involved in the planning who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the situation said Pfizer executives were baffled the administration was not immediately distributing all of its vaccine, and instead leaving much of it on the shelves.

Wut?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/17/pfizer-vaccine-supply-states/

So let's get this straight: Azar claims Pfizer is having production issues and can't keep up, but Pfizer says, "Um, we're keeping up just fine, in fact we have a bunch of doses sitting around and we're just waiting for the feds to tell us where to send them."

That about sum it up?

 

[Sope Creek]

So let's get this straight: Azar claims Pfizer is having production issues and can't keep up, but Pfizer says, "Um, we're keeping up just fine, in fact we have a bunch of doses sitting around and we're just waiting for the feds to tell us where to send them."

That about sum it up?

I guess . . .

or maybe:

 

[UncleMark]

Pfizer says no COVID-19 vaccine production problems or shipment delays

Pfizer on Thursday said none of its coronavirus vaccine shipments are delayed or on hold, and there are no problems with its production.In a statement, the drugmaker said that this week it “s…

thehill.com

If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like they government has them sending just the first dose, with the second dose scheduled to ship later. Not sure if that's smart or not. I guess it gets twice as many people in the front of the line, but they sure as fvck better be able to follow through with the second/booster dose.

Add: There might be storage issues that preclude them from sending both doses. May not have the freezers to store the second dose for the 10 or 21 or whatever number of days they have to wait.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Pfizer says no COVID-19 vaccine production problems or shipment delays

Pfizer on Thursday said none of its coronavirus vaccine shipments are delayed or on hold, and there are no problems with its production.In a statement, the drugmaker said that this week it “s…

thehill.com

If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like they government has them sending just the first dose, with the second dose scheduled to ship later. Not sure if that's smart or not. I guess it gets twice as many people in the front of the line, but they sure as fvck better be able to follow through with the second/booster dose.

Add: There might be storage issues that preclude them from sending both doses. May not have the freezers to store the second dose for the 10 or 21 or whatever number of days they have to wait.

one positive is that there is more in a vile than they anticipated. so we have more than we thought

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I am baffled by the fact that Pfizer is baffled the administration is not acting prudently

I’m baffled at the fact that Pfizer or anybody would expect that government-led distribution of a vaccine would be handled anywhere near as well as it would via private industry.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I’m baffled at the fact that Pfizer or anybody would expect that government-led distribution of a vaccine would be handled anywhere near as well as it would via private industry.

The thing is, the government plays a minimal role in distribution, as I understand it. Pfizer already has the network in place. The only thing they need from the feds is a shipping address. The feds "own" the doses, so they get to decide who gets them. Pfizer is waiting for them to tell them.

That's how I read it, anyway.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I’m baffled at the fact that Pfizer or anybody would expect that government-led distribution of a vaccine would be handled anywhere near as well as it would via private industry.

no shit. let amazon prime ship it to chick-fil-a and let them set up the stations for administration

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Pfizer says no COVID-19 vaccine production problems or shipment delays

Pfizer on Thursday said none of its coronavirus vaccine shipments are delayed or on hold, and there are no problems with its production.In a statement, the drugmaker said that this week it “s…

thehill.com

If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like they government has them sending just the first dose, with the second dose scheduled to ship later. Not sure if that's smart or not. I guess it gets twice as many people in the front of the line, but they sure as fvck better be able to follow through with the second/booster dose.

Add: There might be storage issues that preclude them from sending both doses. May not have the freezers to store the second dose for the 10 or 21 or whatever number of days they have to wait.

I believe the doses sitting on the shelves are not second doses, but first doses intended for more people. Because of the delay (and the storage issues you mentioned), the second doses for the first wave of people probably haven't even been manufactured yet.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

The thing is, the government plays a minimal role in distribution, as I understand it. Pfizer already has the network in place. The only thing they need from the feds is a shipping address. The feds "own" the doses, so they get to decide who gets them. Pfizer is waiting for them to tell them.

That's how I read it, anyway.

That’s my understanding as well. But if we’re letting a political body control dose release - it’s gonna get squirrelly.

I don’t know if anybody took a hard look at letting private insurers and public insurers handle this like they do the flu vaccine.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I believe the doses sitting on the shelves are not second doses, but first doses intended for more people. Because of the delay (and the storage issues you mentioned), the second doses for the first wave of people probably haven't even been manufactured yet.

They likely have been - all batches of pharmaceutical products undergo post-manufacture quality testing and monitoring that takes (usually) several days to weeks before they are released for distribution.

 

[sglowrider]

Because of the delay (and the storage issues you mentioned), the second doses for the first wave of people probably haven't even been manufactured yet.

Several points:

1. At -80 degree storage requirement, it will be difficult to distribute the Pfizer vaccine as easily as other traditional vaccines say like the flu jobs as suggested above. Even with the best cold chain distribution platforms with folks like Zuellig Pharma, it's very difficult to stretch the distribution beyond the larger population centres.

(Apparently the Pfizer vaccine cannot be taken out of its -80 temp environment more than 4 times including leaving the manufacturer facility. Any ins and outs more than that will reduce its efficacy and shelf life.
Then once it's out of its storage box at the hospital or clinic, it has like an 8 minutes exposure time before it deterioates.

2. Moderna has a lower threshold temp requirement like a -30 degree.

3. Singapore has approved both Pfizer and Moderna. The first rounds will be done next week to the healthcare workers. They have enough to innoculate every single resident of the country.
Interestingly they have also bought batches of Sinovac (China.)

4. The Pfizer/Moderna prices will be between $34-40 per vaccine including the double shots. The Chinese vaccines are prices like $10 or below. The Oxford vaccines are expected to be around $4.
Basically, the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines are 1st world solution and the rest due to its easier distribution attributes (no temp requirement) and cheap prices will be more for the 3rd world. (India's main manufacturer has promised that they will not charge more than $2 per vaccine.)

5. The distribution and inoculation process will be problematic as there have been enough unrealistic expectations of the vaccines and bad news coming out of the trials that people are hesitating. A friend of mine who was on the frontline here is now on the vaccine taskforce is hesitating. But she doesn't have a choice since she has to show 'leadership' to the troops in the hospitals! (I now have to take care of her cats and dogs in case she crooks ... as long as she signs her will over to me!!)

They will need to employ the whole Tipping Point approach and layer out the multiple segments of people that need to be inoculated like the introduction of new technology or product.

6. Its been suggested that now with the availability of the vaccines, you only require like 2/3rd of the population before allowing herd immunity to kick in. If this is the case I can't see anything close to a new normal till the end of next 2022.

What's interesting is Indonesia's approach to inoculation:
Younger People Get Vaccines First in Indonesia’s Unusual Rollout

It's causing quite a stir amongst the Indons I know.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I've heard that a single dose provides protection/immunity for some period of time (six months or so), so I wonder if it would be more prudent to try to immunize as many as possible with a single vaccination and then worry about the doing a two shot vaccination later. I'm thinking after the medical personnel and older folks are vaccinated with the standard two shots.

 

[Noodle]

(Apparently the Pfizer vaccine cannot be taken out of its -80 temp environment more than 4 times including leaving the manufacturer facility. Any ins and outs more than that will reduce its efficacy and shelf life.
Then once it's out of its storage box at the hospital or clinic, it has like an 8 minutes exposure time before it deterioates.

I stopped reading at the above, as it's not even remotely accurate. How the do you think someone can take a vial out of cold storage, thaw it to room temperature, mix it with diluent, then administer the vaccine, all within 8 minutes? Hell, it takes at least half an hour to thaw it out!

In reality, they have 8 HOURS from when the vaccine is at room temperature to administer it. In fact, it's actually a little easier than the MMR (measles, etc.) vaccine. The MMR vaccine must be returned to a refrigerator if it is not used immediately after being mixed with the diluent.

Also, the COVID vaccine can be thawed in a refrigerator. Once removed from ultra-cold storage and put into a regular refrigerator (36-46 F) and kept there for up to 5 days.

Given the speed at which the vaccine is being delivered and used, it's really not all that complicated or burdensome for most. As long as it's still in its ultra-cold shipping container when you receive it, just take out what you need and put it in a refrigerator. The rest can stay in the container (but you need to add dry ice within 24 hours of receipt and then once every 5 days after that).

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC

Information about the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and how to store, handle, and administer it.

www.cdc.gov

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/downloads/storage-summary.pdf

 

[sglowrider]

I stopped reading at the above, as it's not even remotely accurate. How the do you think someone can take a vial out of cold storage, thaw it to room temperature, mix it with diluent, then administer the vaccine, all within 8 minutes? Hell, it takes at least half an hour to thaw it out!

In reality, they have 8 HOURS from when the vaccine is at room temperature to administer it. In fact, it's actually a little easier than the MMR (measles, etc.) vaccine. The MMR vaccine must be returned to a refrigerator if it is not used immediately after being mixed with the diluent.

Also, the COVID vaccine can be thawed in a refrigerator. Once removed from ultra-cold storage and put into a regular refrigerator (36-46 F) and kept there for up to 5 days.

Given the speed at which the vaccine is being delivered and used, it's really not all that complicated or burdensome for most. As long as it's still in its ultra-cold shipping container when you receive it, just take out what you need and put it in a refrigerator. The rest can stay in the container (but you need to add dry ice within 24 hours of receipt and then once every 5 days after that).

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC

Information about the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and how to store, handle, and administer it.

www.cdc.gov

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/downloads/storage-summary.pdf

Apologies for some of the inaccuracies. My bad. But the other points still stand.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Several points:

1. At -80 degree storage requirement, it will be difficult to distribute the Pfizer vaccine as easily as other traditional vaccines say like the flu jobs as suggested above. Even with the best cold chain distribution platforms with folks like Zuellig Pharma, it's very difficult to stretch the distribution beyond the larger population centres.

(Apparently the Pfizer vaccine cannot be taken out of its -80 temp environment more than 4 times including leaving the manufacturer facility. Any ins and outs more than that will reduce its efficacy and shelf life.
Then once it's out of its storage box at the hospital or clinic, it has like an 8 minutes exposure time before it deterioates.

2. Moderna has a lower threshold temp requirement like a -30 degree.

3. Singapore has approved both Pfizer and Moderna. The first rounds will be done next week to the healthcare workers. They have enough to innoculate every single resident of the country.
Interestingly they have also bought batches of Sinovac (China.)

4. The Pfizer/Moderna prices will be between $34-40 per vaccine including the double shots. The Chinese vaccines are prices like $10 or below. The Oxford vaccines are expected to be around $4.
Basically, the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines are 1st world solution and the rest due to its easier distribution attributes (no temp requirement) and cheap prices will be more for the 3rd world. (India's main manufacturer has promised that they will not charge more than $2 per vaccine.)

5. The distribution and inoculation process will be problematic as there have been enough unrealistic expectations of the vaccines and bad news coming out of the trials that people are hesitating. A friend of mine who was on the frontline here is now on the vaccine taskforce is hesitating. But she doesn't have a choice since she has to show 'leadership' to the troops in the hospitals! (I now have to take care of her cats and dogs in case she crooks ... as long as she signs her will over to me!!)

They will need to employ the whole Tipping Point approach and layer out the multiple segments of people that need to be inoculated like the introduction of new technology or product.

6. Its been suggested that now with the availability of the vaccines, you only require like 2/3rd of the population before allowing herd immunity to kick in. If this is the case I can't see anything close to a new normal till the end of next 2022.

What's interesting is Indonesia's approach to inoculation:
Younger People Get Vaccines First in Indonesia’s Unusual Rollout

It's causing quite a stir amongst the Indons I know.

end of 2022? no way. we'll be back to normal this summer. optimism sgl

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I stopped reading at the above, as it's not even remotely accurate. How the do you think someone can take a vial out of cold storage, thaw it to room temperature, mix it with diluent, then administer the vaccine, all within 8 minutes? Hell, it takes at least half an hour to thaw it out!

In reality, they have 8 HOURS from when the vaccine is at room temperature to administer it. In fact, it's actually a little easier than the MMR (measles, etc.) vaccine. The MMR vaccine must be returned to a refrigerator if it is not used immediately after being mixed with the diluent.

Also, the COVID vaccine can be thawed in a refrigerator. Once removed from ultra-cold storage and put into a regular refrigerator (36-46 F) and kept there for up to 5 days.

Given the speed at which the vaccine is being delivered and used, it's really not all that complicated or burdensome for most. As long as it's still in its ultra-cold shipping container when you receive it, just take out what you need and put it in a refrigerator. The rest can stay in the container (but you need to add dry ice within 24 hours of receipt and then once every 5 days after that).

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC

Information about the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and how to store, handle, and administer it.

www.cdc.gov

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/downloads/storage-summary.pdf

Correct. And the flu vaccine pondering I made had nothing to do with logistics. It had to do with distribution and payment. Pfizer or their 3PL handles the logistics (including the deep freeze) and they’d be more than capable - more so than the government - at doing the allocations.

 

[sglowrider]

end of 2022? no way. we'll be back to normal this summer. optimism sgl

Did you watch both Rashford goals? I am feeling it now.

2021 Spring then!

 

[mcmurtry66]

Did you watch both Rashford goals? I am feeling it now.

2021 Spring then!

yes! united's third goal was absolutely spectacular. the goalie shit himself a bit but i was still glad to see united rewarded. one of the best team goals i've seen this year.

 

[sglowrider]

yes! united's third goal was absolutely spectacular. the goalie shit himself a bit but i was still glad to see united rewarded. one of the best team goals i've seen this year.

And the ignoramuses here think its a boring sport! Its a thing of beauty.

United's a very young squad (youngest in the league) and which is why you expect such inconsistencies and the lack of mental focus. But when they get it right..

 

[mcmurtry66]

And the ignoramuses here think its a boring sport! Its a thing of beauty.

United's a very young squad (youngest in the league) and which is why you expect such inconsistencies and the lack of mental focus. But when they get it right..

Yep. When they’re clickin it’s beautiful

 

[Sope Creek]

one positive is that there is more in a vile than they anticipated. so we have more than we thought

That's vial to you, mister. Better not be vile . . . .

 

[mcmurtry66]

That's vial to you, mister. Better not be vile . . . .

Hahaha good catch

 

[HillzHoozier]

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Pfizer says no COVID-19 vaccine production problems or shipment delays

Pfizer on Thursday said none of its coronavirus vaccine shipments are delayed or on hold, and there are no problems with its production.In a statement, the drugmaker said that this week it “s…

thehill.com

If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like they government has them sending just the first dose, with the second dose scheduled to ship later. Not sure if that's smart or not. I guess it gets twice as many people in the front of the line, but they sure as fvck better be able to follow through with the second/booster dose.

Add: There might be storage issues that preclude them from sending both doses. May not have the freezers to store the second dose for the 10 or 21 or whatever number of days they have to wait.

This has been one of my concerns all along. "been trying to get my second dose for four weeks"

 

[UncleMark]

This has been one of my concerns all along. "been trying to get my second dose for four weeks"

The number of people getting second doses on time or at all will be less than the number getting the first. That difference needs to be as small as is humanly possible. The worst possible scenario would be for there to be a shortage of vaccine or supply chain/distribution issues.

 

[SSB]

. . . are occurring . . . Pfizer says it hasn't received instructions for distribution of millions of doses in inventory. Apparently states have been expecting larger supplies . . . as much as a 40% drop from what was expected.

What's going on here? From the article:

Another person involved in the planning who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the situation said Pfizer executives were baffled the administration was not immediately distributing all of its vaccine, and instead leaving much of it on the shelves.

Wut?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/17/pfizer-vaccine-supply-states/

I don’t remember the who was quoted in the article as saying the original target number of doses will still be shipped out by year end, but my assumption is that we still fall well behind on vaccinations. Unless CVS and Walgreens hire additional staff beyond what was already projected to administer the vaccine, they won’t be able to catch up.

 

[Spartans9312]

. . . are occurring . . . Pfizer says it hasn't received instructions for distribution of millions of doses in inventory. Apparently states have been expecting larger supplies . . . as much as a 40% drop from what was expected.

What's going on here? From the article:

Another person involved in the planning who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the situation said Pfizer executives were baffled the administration was not immediately distributing all of its vaccine, and instead leaving much of it on the shelves.

Wut?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/17/pfizer-vaccine-supply-states/

NBC: "Thousands of Covid-19 vaccines wind up in the garbage because of Fed, state guidelines"
Ashish Jha: "I have personally heard stories like this from dozens of physician friends in a variety of different states. Hundreds, if not thousands, of doses are getting tossed across the country every day."
This is spot on. I have seen it multiple times at my location. Even though we have vaccine that is still good, we have to waste due to government idiocy

 

[sglowrider]

NBC: "Thousands of Covid-19 vaccines wind up in the garbage because of Fed, state guidelines"
Ashish Jha: "I have personally heard stories like this from dozens of physician friends in a variety of different states. Hundreds, if not thousands, of doses are getting tossed across the country every day."
This is spot on. I have seen it multiple times at my location. Even though we have vaccine that is still good, we have to waste due to government idiocy

The Pfizer vaccine has always been a more difficult solution to deploy. It requires military or FedEx/DHL expertise level of logistical deployment. You need one window to be able to ensure coordination and manage.

8 hours to thaw, and then each vial is good for 5 patients. Can you imagine how you would do this?

There has to be a lot of buffering in terms of the patient appointments especially with the elderly who may not be able to show up on time etc. The wastage levels will inevitably be pretty high.

I had said from the start, the Oxford-AZ vaccine has always been the better option. But the Pfizer vaccine was rushed through for political reasons.

We are facing the same issue here -- plus we seem to be a high level of allergic reactions by the healthcare workers.

We only bought Pfizer, Moderna and about to approve Sinovac to cover at least 80% of the population to achieve herd immunity.
It will be a political issue soon since the decision to put all the eggs in one basket especially in an unproven technology like mRNA.

 

[outside shooter]

Janssen/J&J is also on the way and requires no freezer storage, just normal refrigeration. Not mRNA, but an adenovirus vector (modified cold virus that delivers spike protein). Single dose results may be in by the end of next week. Two dose trial is also underway.

 

[Spartans9312]

The Pfizer vaccine has always been a more difficult solution to deploy. It requires military or FedEx/DHL expertise level of logistical deployment. You need one window to be able to ensure coordination and manage.

8 hours to thaw, and then each vial is good for 5 patients. Can you imagine how you would do this?

There has to be a lot of buffering in terms of the patient appointments especially with the elderly who may not be able to show up on time etc. The wastage levels will inevitably be pretty high.

I had said from the start, the Oxford-AZ vaccine has always been the better option. But the Pfizer vaccine was rushed through for political reasons.

We are facing the same issue here -- plus we seem to be a high level of allergic reactions by the healthcare workers.

We only bought Pfizer, Moderna and about to approve Sinovac to cover at least 80% of the population to achieve herd immunity.
It will be a political issue soon since the decision to put all the eggs in one basket especially in an unproven technology like mRNA.

I haven't dealt with Pfizer but the waste on Moderna should be almost nonexistent.
We were informed that it is now stable for 30 days at refrigerated temperatures. Good for 6 hours after puncture. Each vial has 10 doses. Even if you only schedule 3 folks an hour you should be able to get people to your location to utilize those doses before they go bad. Demand is high right now.

 

[sglowrider]

I haven't dealt with Pfizer but the waste on Moderna should be almost nonexistent.
We were informed that it is now stable for 30 days at refrigerated temperatures. Good for 6 hours after puncture. Each vial has 10 doses. Even if you only schedule 3 folks an hour you should be able to get people to your location to utilize those doses before they go bad. Demand is high right now.

What I find strange is the allergic reactions over here with Pfizer but not much reporting of it in the States.

 

[sglowrider]

I haven't dealt with Pfizer but the waste on Moderna should be almost nonexistent.
We were informed that it is now stable for 30 days at refrigerated temperatures. Good for 6 hours after puncture. Each vial has 10 doses. Even if you only schedule 3 folks an hour you should be able to get people to your location to utilize those doses before they go bad. Demand is high right now.

I did tell one of my friends who is on the vaccine taskforce here -- mass vaccination isn't really the domain of healthcare organisations. They are used to having people walk in. But to go out and chase 'customers' is more of a commercial activity. You can scoop up the early adopters but what happens after that? Its a go to market (GTM) strategy that needs to be employed.

 

[iuwclurker]

Warp speed. baby.

Wart speed. Wart Spurs. Bone spurs.

 

[iuwclurker]

. . . are occurring . . . Pfizer says it hasn't received instructions for distribution of millions of doses in inventory. Apparently states have been expecting larger supplies . . . as much as a 40% drop from what was expected.

What's going on here? From the article:

Another person involved in the planning who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the situation said Pfizer executives were baffled the administration was not immediately distributing all of its vaccine, and instead leaving much of it on the shelves.

Wut?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/17/pfizer-vaccine-supply-states/

Ask McM. He’ll tell you it’s not Trump. It’s all our fault. We’re all in this together.