Coronavirus Timeline Clarity

[hoot1]

While the virus is actively rolling throughout the world, health is the obvious first priority. But this pandemic is the direct result of gross incompetence, deliberate indifference, and active deception by China. Some sort of accountability is needed so we don’t go through this again.

When this pandemic is over and all the dead are put to rest we can then take the time and energy required to review how it all came about and what could have been done better.

Also CoH, as you indicated, make plans for the future.

Currently I don't see how focusing on blame with political implications helps us in the battle against this deadly and pervasive enemy.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

When this pandemic is over and all the dead are put to rest we can then take the time and energy required to review how it all came about and what could have been done better.

Also CoH, as you indicated, make plans for the future.

Currently I don't see how focusing on blame with political implications helps us in the battle against this deadly and pervasive enemy.

Blame is one thing. Politics is another. I think the Democrats from the git go have politicized blame because of their often knee-jerk tendency to think of xenophobia and racism as a motive for anything coming from people they don’t agree with.

 

[cosmickid]

Sigh. I asked a genuine question and that is what I get. I guess so far he has been found non guilty 2 times now.

But I hoped you might have some info for me. You apparently are too far infected with TDS to have any rational conversation. Hopefully someone else on the board will help me. Good evening to you.

No offense, but once you allow yourself to use a BS term like TDS, you lose all claim to rationality or objectivity.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Blame is one thing. Politics is another. I think the Democrats from the git go have politicized blame because of their often knee-jerk tendency to think of xenophobia and racism as a motive for anything coming from people they don’t agree with.

Note-not a Democrat, per se, but a member of the MSM. A distinction without a difference.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

why do you bother? You know what responses you are going to get with the majority not even reading. Trump bad.... They are ignorant and worst of all desire to stay that way. You are gonna be called stupid, an idiot, blah, blah. Then I’m sure the pied piper will come along and show us all where we are wrong.

[

[/QUOTE]
This + your crying to new owners to get this forum closed = you being a huge, sobbing, triggered snowflake.

 

[cosmickid]

Trump appointed the task force at the end of January and then he followed all their recommendations.

Well we know certain GOP Senators "followed their recommendations". They divested themselves of stocks having to do with travel, hospitality and leisure and in the case of Loeffler purchased stocks in companies who were likely to benefit from a global health crisis...

"The husband of Georgia Sen. Kelly Loeffler recently acquired as much as $415,000 in stock in DuPont de Nemours, a chemical company that manufactures protective equipment in exceedingly high demand because of the coronavirus pandemic."

https://time.com/5814158/georgia-kelly-loeffler-stocks-coronavirus/

No idea why you keep gaslighting for Trump. You say you didn't vote for him, but you just keep posting misinformation that is straight out of Team Trump...

So from the formation of the task force at the end of Jan, Trump did all of the following. Which would you characterize as following task force "recommendations"? Btw, in case you're going to give credence to another Trump false "talking point" (the Impeachment), the GOP formally acquitted Trump on Feb 5th. But for all intents and purposes, the trial ended on Jan 31, when Collins, Murkowski, and Alexander voted no witnesses.

Trump held rallies on:
—Jan 9th
—Jan 14th
—Jan 28th
—Jan 30th
—Feb 10th
—Feb 19th
—Feb 20th
—Feb 21st
—Feb 28th

Trump golfed on:
—Jan 18th
—Jan 19th
—Feb 1st
—Feb 15th
—Mar 7th
—Mar 8th

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Well we know certain GOP Senators "followed their recommendations". They divested themselves of stocks having to do with travel, hospitality and leisure and in the case of Loeffler purchased stocks in companies who were likely to benefit from a global health crisis...

I hope someone is checking out purchases of Sanofi. They make hydroxychloroquine. There might be elected officials, and radio/tv personalities buying it and touting it.

 

[IUclover]

I hope someone is checking out purchases of Sanofi. They make hydroxychloroquine. There might be elected officials, and radio/tv personalities buying it and touting it.

That was one of my first thoughts as well. I'm sure the "Kush" and others have made some investments.

Here's an article I just came across but the company producing the drug is Novartis.

"It just so happens that one of the largest manufacturers of the drug, Novartis, previously paid Trump’s now-incarcerated former personal attorney Michael Cohen more than $1 million for healthcare policy insight following Trump’s election in 2016.

The Swiss drug maker signed a contract that paid Cohen’s newly formed limited-liability corporation Essential Consultants $100,000 per month in February of 2017."

https://lawandcrime.com/covid-19-pa...ccess-to-trump/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

No offense, but once you allow yourself to use a BS term like TDS, you lose all claim to rationality or objectivity.

Now who isn’t being rational

 

[mohoosier]

why do you bother? You know what responses you are going to get with the majority not even reading. Trump bad.... They are ignorant and worst of all desire to stay that way. You are gonna be called stupid, an idiot, blah, blah. Then I’m sure the pied piper will come along and show us all where we are wrong.

[

[/QUOTE]
lol!

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

This + your crying to new owners to get this forum closed = you being a huge, sobbing, triggered snowflake.[/QUOTE]
Sniff sniff.... I’m sorry that I don’t agree with you. Everyone has an opinion. You don’t like mine. You rule to name calling.... who is a snowflake? I openly aired my issue where it could be seen. The owner asked a question on a board I was on...I responded. I still I’m right. As a PAYING customer, we have watched several Talented writers leave the paying forums because new ownership can’t or won’t pay them. Just from one standpoint, if money is an issue, I’d rather see it spent on writers of content not a place for people who don’t contribute to IU sport to go and make outlandish claims about politics.

They won’t close this board down in my estimation. BUT I do see an actual oversight committee to be formed to govern the overseers on the boards. That is a win win for everyone. Right now the judge and jury rests in the hands of the very few and people have zero recourse. Hopefully, people will have a place to go with complaints now. As someone who does pay, I do have a problem with people who don’t having the ability to basically cancel my membership on their terms....

so once again, keep running off at the mouth without consideration. I’m accustom to it here.

 

[IUJIM]

Well we know certain GOP Senators "followed their recommendations". They divested themselves of stocks having to do with travel, hospitality and leisure and in the case of Loeffler purchased stocks in companies who were likely to benefit from a global health crisis...

"The husband of Georgia Sen. Kelly Loeffler recently acquired as much as $415,000 in stock in DuPont de Nemours, a chemical company that manufactures protective equipment in exceedingly high demand because of the coronavirus pandemic."

https://time.com/5814158/georgia-kelly-loeffler-stocks-coronavirus/

No idea why you keep gaslighting for Trump. You say you didn't vote for him, but you just keep posting misinformation that is straight out of Team Trump...

So from the formation of the task force at the end of Jan, Trump did all of the following. Which would you characterize as following task force "recommendations"? Btw, in case you're going to give credence to another Trump false "talking point" (the Impeachment), the GOP formally acquitted Trump on Feb 5th. But for all intents and purposes, the trial ended on Jan 31, when Collins, Murkowski, and Alexander voted no witnesses.

Trump held rallies on:
—Jan 9th
—Jan 14th
—Jan 28th
—Jan 30th
—Feb 10th
—Feb 19th
—Feb 20th
—Feb 21st
—Feb 28th

Trump golfed on:
—Jan 18th
—Jan 19th
—Feb 1st
—Feb 15th
—Mar 7th
—Mar 8th

Is the fact that DuPont manufactures protective equipment not public information? What exactly is wrong with her husband buying stock in one of the largest corporations in the country, because they sell a product that everyone, and their sister, knows they sell? Is he forbidden to buy stock? If he does, is he not allowed to make thoughtful decisions and buy stock in a company with a desired product?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Well we know certain GOP Senators "followed their recommendations". They divested themselves of stocks having to do with travel, hospitality and leisure and in the case of Loeffler purchased stocks in companies who were likely to benefit from a global health crisis...

"The husband of Georgia Sen. Kelly Loeffler recently acquired as much as $415,000 in stock in DuPont de Nemours, a chemical company that manufactures protective equipment in exceedingly high demand because of the coronavirus pandemic."

https://time.com/5814158/georgia-kelly-loeffler-stocks-coronavirus/

No idea why you keep gaslighting for Trump. You say you didn't vote for him, but you just keep posting misinformation that is straight out of Team Trump...

So from the formation of the task force at the end of Jan, Trump did all of the following. Which would you characterize as following task force "recommendations"? Btw, in case you're going to give credence to another Trump false "talking point" (the Impeachment), the GOP formally acquitted Trump on Feb 5th. But for all intents and purposes, the trial ended on Jan 31, when Collins, Murkowski, and Alexander voted no witnesses.

Trump held rallies on:
—Jan 9th
—Jan 14th
—Jan 28th
—Jan 30th
—Feb 10th
—Feb 19th
—Feb 20th
—Feb 21st
—Feb 28th

Trump golfed on:
—Jan 18th
—Jan 19th
—Feb 1st
—Feb 15th
—Mar 7th
—Mar 8th

Ya know what? Trump wore a blue-striped neck tie the other day without a task force recommendation that he do so. Schiff is going to investigate that.

Oh, I did vote for Trump. I never denied it.

Trump appointed the task force at the end of January and then he followed all their recommendations.

 

[mohoosier]

No offense, but once you allow yourself to use a BS term like TDS, you lose all claim to rationality or objectivity.

I guess it hit home

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Experts are somewhere between Trump and CNN

https://www.thoracic.org/profession...sease-related-resources/covid-19-guidance.pdf

Results: The task force recommended collecting data and comparing outcomes among COVID‐19 patients who received an intervention to those who did not receive the intervention using appropriate methods for causal inference and control of confounders. Suggestions were made to treat hospitalized patients who have COVID‐19 and severe pneumonia with hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine on a case‐by‐case basis if certain requirements are present, and to utilize prone ventilation and extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO) in patients with refractory hypoxemia due to COVID‐19 pneumonia (i.e., acute respiratory distress syndrome [ARDS]). The task force made no suggestions for or against

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Is the fact that DuPont manufactures protective equipment not public information? What exactly is wrong with her husband buying stock in one of the largest corporations in the country, because they sell a product that everyone, and their sister, knows they sell? Is he forbidden to buy stock? If he does, is he not allowed to make thoughtful decisions and buy stock in a company with a desired product?

You cannot be serious.

 

[IUJIM]

You cannot be serious.

He bought stock in DuPont in March. The first week of March, when it was said to have been bought, DD was in the mid 40's. It is now at $35. By March, pretty much everybody knew this was a major issue. Are you saying he is not allowed to buy stock, or that by March, he was privy to inside information wrt DuPont?

 

[mashnut]

Experts are somewhere between Trump and CNN

https://www.thoracic.org/profession...sease-related-resources/covid-19-guidance.pdf

Results: The task force recommended collecting data and comparing outcomes among COVID‐19 patients who received an intervention to those who did not receive the intervention using appropriate methods for causal inference and control of confounders. Suggestions were made to treat hospitalized patients who have COVID‐19 and severe pneumonia with hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine on a case‐by‐case basis if certain requirements are present, and to utilize prone ventilation and extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO) in patients with refractory hypoxemia due to COVID‐19 pneumonia (i.e., acute respiratory distress syndrome [ARDS]). The task force made no suggestions for or against

Hmm, what I've seen from CNN is that we should trust medical experts on how to assess the efficacy and safety of using this as a treatment. This is a statement from experts giving those recommendations. Note that doesn't say that we should all run out and buy it from the pharmacy ourselves, it says that in certain cases doctors should consider trialing this. I have not seen a single expert say to self-dose prophylactically like the president repeatedly encouraged.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

He bought stock in DuPont in March. The first week of March, when it was said to have been bought, DD was in the mid 40's. It is now at $35. By March, pretty much everybody knew this was a major issue. Are you saying he is not allowed to buy stock, or that by March, he was privy to inside information wrt DuPont?

February. Per reports, they first started buying DuPont in February. And they bought Citrix (telecommuting technology) in January, literally on the same day as the now infamous senator-only briefing.

 

[IUclover]

He bought stock in DuPont in March. The first week of March, when it was said to have been bought, DD was in the mid 40's. It is now at $35. By March, pretty much everybody knew this was a major issue. Are you saying he is not allowed to buy stock, or that by March, he was privy to inside information wrt DuPont?

Nothing to see here. We definitely shouldn't hold elected officials to a higher standard. Let freedom ring.

"The couple also reportedly sold $46,027 worth of stock in online travel company Booking Holdings in the day leading up to President Donald Trump’s ban on most European travel to the United States. Booking, which helps customers book flights, hotels and other travel-related necessities, is down 40% this year.

The couple came under fire last month after it was revealed that they had sold up to $3 million worth of equity after the senator was privately briefed by federal officials about the spread and impact of the novel coronavirus."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/03/sen...-often-used-as-hedges-against-volatility.html

 

[IUJIM]

He bought stock in DuPont in March. The first week of March, when it was said to have been bought, DD was in the mid 40's. It is now at $35. By March, pretty much everybody knew this was a major issue. Are you saying he is not allowed to buy stock, or that by March, he was privy to inside information wrt DuPont?

The article also says he

February. Per reports, they first started buying DuPont in February. And they bought Citrix (telecommuting technology) in January, literally on the same day as the now infamous senator-only briefing.

Well, I don't know about Citrix. Trust me, I am all about punishing those who buy/sell on insider info. It is wrong!! But lets make sure we know the entire story before we just throw them all to the wolves.

His wife has managed accounts, that are managed by an outside firm, and are done on a discretionary basis. On the surface, I see nothing wrong with trades happening in those accounts. Burr, on the other hand, seems to have made some solicited trades at his doing, based off of info that MAY have been private. That would be wrong if proven, and I would have no trouble throwing him in jail.

 

[UncleMark]

Blame is one thing. Politics is another. I think the Democrats from the git go have politicized blame because of their often knee-jerk tendency to think of xenophobia and racism as a motive for anything coming from people they don’t agree with.

LOL. COH is actually complaining about "knee-jerk tendencies". That would be like me complaining about bald people.

 

[mashnut]

The article also says he

Well, I don't know about Citrix. Trust me, I am all about punishing those who buy/sell on insider info. It is wrong!! But lets make sure we know the entire story before we just throw them all to the wolves.

His wife has managed accounts, that are managed by an outside firm, and are done on a discretionary basis. On the surface, I see nothing wrong with trades happening in those accounts. Burr, on the other hand, seems to have made some solicited trades at his doing, based off of info that MAY have been private. That would be wrong if proven, and I would have no trouble throwing him in jail.

I haven't seen people on this board calling for anyone to be "thrown to the wolves", I've seen people saying this should be investigated, and that government officials should not be allowed to trade based on information they received in the course of their job that is not public. Do you disagree with any of that or are you just here to argue with the strawmen you brought along?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

The article also says he

Well, I don't know about Citrix. Trust me, I am all about punishing those who buy/sell on insider info. It is wrong!! But lets make sure we know the entire story before we just throw them all to the wolves.

His wife has managed accounts, that are managed by an outside firm, and are done on a discretionary basis. On the surface, I see nothing wrong with trades happening in those accounts. Burr, on the other hand, seems to have made some solicited trades at his doing, based off of info that MAY have been private. That would be wrong if proven, and I would have no trouble throwing him in jail.

Managed accounts are not blind trusts. She still has the ability to pass along information or instruction.

By all means, let's get all the information first, but if it looks like a skunk and smells like a skunk, it's probably not a pineapple.

 

[IUJIM]

Nothing to see here. We definitely shouldn't hold elected officials to a higher standard. Let freedom ring.

"The couple also reportedly sold $46,027 worth of stock in online travel company Booking Holdings in the day leading up to President Donald Trump’s ban on most European travel to the United States. Booking, which helps customers book flights, hotels and other travel-related necessities, is down 40% this year.

The couple came under fire last month after it was revealed that they had sold up to $3 million worth of equity after the senator was privately briefed by federal officials about the spread and impact of the novel coronavirus."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/03/sen...-often-used-as-hedges-against-volatility.html

I am not sticking up for Burr. His particular case seems questionable to me.
As for Loeffler, it says she was not involved in the trades, that she uses outside money mangers that make those decisions for her. That is very plausible. That is a very normal investment strategy that wealthy people use, and yes, most clients, unless they were paying very close attention, probably didn't even notice the specific trades. It could be cleared up very easily. Did the managers that Loeffler was employing make sweeping changes across all clients accounts, or just hers? If it is just hers, she has a problem. If they bought DuPont across every clients account on the same date, I see no issue what-so-ever.

 

[IUJIM]

Managed accounts are not blind trusts. She still has the ability to pass along information or instruction.

By all means, let's get all the information first, but if it looks like a skunk and smells like a skunk, it's probably not a pineapple.

That is why I said what I said below. If Manager XYZ sells Apple for all their clients on Jan 27th, and Buys Home Depot, then there there is nothing there. If it was only done in her account, there is a major problem.

And yes, I understand managed accounts are not blind trusts. That does not mean her managed accounts are not in a blind trust, I don't know.

 

[IUJIM]

I haven't seen people on this board calling for anyone to be "thrown to the wolves", I've seen people saying this should be investigated, and that government officials should not be allowed to trade based on information they received in the course of their job that is not public. Do you disagree with any of that or are you just here to argue with the strawmen you brought along?

It should be investigated. My last 2 posts say exactly what should be investigated

 

[CO. Hoosier]

LOL. COH is actually complaining about "knee-jerk tendencies". That would be like me complaining about bald people.

Enough about me. What, if any, consequences do you think China should bear for this virus?

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Hmm, what I've seen from CNN is that we should trust medical experts on how to assess the efficacy and safety of using this as a treatment. This is a statement from experts giving those recommendations. Note that doesn't say that we should all run out and buy it from the pharmacy ourselves, it says that in certain cases doctors should consider trialing this. I have not seen a single expert say to self-dose prophylactically like the president repeatedly encouraged.

You need a prescription for it. It's not Advil.

 

[mashnut]

You need a prescription for it. It's not Advil.

Understood. People were asking doctor and pharmacist friends for scripts to take home and self-dose. In many cases doctors were doing that for themselves and their families and friends. That's irresponsible and not only meant that people with other conditions these drugs treat weren't able to get their medicine, it can mean that we delay the actual hospital supervised usage your article suggested because we don't have a large stockpile of these drugs. One poster on this board admitted he was trying to acquire some of this medicine for his own personal use at home. That's not what your article recommends at all, it is what the president is recommending. "What do you have to lose?"

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Understood. People were asking doctor and pharmacist friends for scripts to take home and self-dose. In many cases doctors were doing that for themselves and their families and friends. That's irresponsible and not only meant that people with other conditions these drugs treat weren't able to get their medicine, it can mean that we delay the actual hospital supervised usage your article suggested because we don't have a large stockpile of these drugs. One poster on this board admitted he was trying to acquire some of this medicine for his own personal use at home. That's not what your article recommends at all, it is what the president is recommending. "What do you have to lose?"

I'm not defending Trump's usage of it. I'm only suggesting that if you are in an ICU and on a ventilator, the risk-reward makes it much more worthwhile. Under average symptoms or less, there is zero reason to resort to it.

I fully agree with you that he's totally and embarrassingly failed to properly message this concept. And as everyone knows, there are a lot of stupid people in this country.

 

[Harry Hondo]

Enough about me. What, if any, consequences do you think China should bear for this virus?

The thing that must be done is to force them to close the wet fish markets, which is likely how it started. Beyond that, not sure what kind of punishment is deserved for initially lying about the outbreak. Closing the source though will go a long way. The Chinese government is going to lie and coverup things, that’s what they do.

 

[mashnut]

I'm not defending Trump's usage of it. I'm only suggesting that if you are in an ICU and on a ventilator, the risk-reward makes it much more worthwhile. Under average symptoms or less, there is zero reason to resort to it.

I fully agree with you that he's totally and embarrassingly failed to properly message this concept. And as everyone knows, there are a lot of stupid people in this country.

I think we're on the same page here. My only issue with your original post was when you said "Experts are somewhere between Trump and CNN". This isn't a both sides thing. CNN (and I assume you're using them as a stand-in for media in general) haven't been advocating for not using this, they've simply advocated for waiting for expert advice on how to test this. It sounds like you agree with that advice.

 

[ribbont]

No offense, but once you allow yourself to use a BS term like TDS, you lose all claim to rationality or objectivity.

No offense, but once you allow yourself to acknowledge TDS exists, you lose all claim to rationality or objectivity.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

The thing that must be done is to force them to close the wet fish markets, which is likely how it started. Beyond that, not sure what kind of punishment is deserved for initially lying about the outbreak. Closing the source though will go a long way. The Chinese government is going to lie and coverup things, that’s what they do.

To be clear, we have no idea if the market is where this virus jumped to humans. In fact, there is some evidence now that it is not.

 

[Cream&Crimson]

To be clear, we have no idea if the market is where this virus jumped to humans. In fact, there is some evidence now that it is not.

This is true. I read an interview with some epidemiologists today (don't have the link though I could dig it up) that believe the virus may have jumped to humans more months than we initially thought, or even years, ago.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

This is true. I read an interview with some epidemiologists today (don't have the link though I could dig it up) that believe the virus may have jumped to humans more months than we initially thought, or even years, ago.

I saw that too. Started a thread below about the paper they published on it.

 

[cosmickid]

Now who isn’t being rational

Anyone that attempts to use a pejorative term for people who don't approve of Trump. By any measure, an opinion shared by the majority of eligible voters...

"Monday, April 06, 2020

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 44% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance. Fifty-three percent (53%) disapprove.

The latest figures include 33% who Strongly Approve of the job Trump is doing and 44% who Strongly Disapprove. This gives him a Presidential Approval Index rating of -11. (see trends)."

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/political_updates/prez_track_apr06

 

[cosmickid]

The article also says he

Well, I don't know about Citrix. Trust me, I am all about punishing those who buy/sell on insider info. It is wrong!! But lets make sure we know the entire story before we just throw them all to the wolves.

His wife has managed accounts, that are managed by an outside firm, and are done on a discretionary basis. On the surface, I see nothing wrong with trades happening in those accounts. Burr, on the other hand, seems to have made some solicited trades at his doing, based off of info that MAY have been private. That would be wrong if proven, and I would have no trouble throwing him in jail.

You do realize that the loudest critic of Loeffler's actions has been (Trump flunky) Collins (R-Ga) right...?

 

[IUJIM]

You do realize that the loudest critic of Loeffler's actions has been (Trump flunky) Collins (R-Ga) right...?

What difference does that make? I don’t look at the world through one way glasses.