Or perhaps they're assuming that Trump is keeping extra ventilators for the "good Pennsylvania folks" to the exclusion of those heathens in New York.
Coronavirus, Thoughts, Musings, Observations
- Thread starter Crossblock
- Start date
How many beds and respirators does your local hospital have? I doesn't have to run rampant to overload the healthcare system in small towns and localities. A couple of cases would be all it takes in a small town.
I'm done. I did my little part to try and open your eyes to it. I feel sorry for anyone that ends up with it as a result of you and the deacons "keeping an eye on it", whatever that means, since people can carry it, infect others and still be asymptomatic the entire time.
I'm done. I did my little part to try and open your eyes to it. I feel sorry for anyone that ends up with it as a result of you and the deacons "keeping an eye on it", whatever that means, since people can carry it, infect others and still be asymptomatic the entire time.
Pennsylvania has closed every school in the state but Van and his Deacons evidently don't think that means much...
Amazing!!!
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Nearly 3 dozen who attended Arkansas church event test positive for corona virus
link: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...jneq7IrOIoktu6yzdzbR5VYxufW-2BPWVs9uCb70ZjisI
Pastor Who Claimed Covid-19 ‘Hysteria’ Was Plot Against Trump Dies From Virus
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progr...2Nt5uGBmeUA4TmCNFpasMSOaLYoDZw9RH2fZy-a1WCIpQ
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Darwin award winners definitely include the religious right
link: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...jneq7IrOIoktu6yzdzbR5VYxufW-2BPWVs9uCb70ZjisI
Pastor Who Claimed Covid-19 ‘Hysteria’ Was Plot Against Trump Dies From Virus
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progr...2Nt5uGBmeUA4TmCNFpasMSOaLYoDZw9RH2fZy-a1WCIpQ
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Darwin award winners definitely include the religious right
I just saw an interview with a pastor in Louisiana on a TV Show. he had been cited for conducting a service with 300 members in violation of the orders. He went through many of the same reasons you are giving - poor congregation that is not technically astute, hard to communicate with, and elderly who would be isolated. Can't just stream online and have them find it.
There are several things I think about when I look at this.
1. Is this really about providing a necessary service, or is this about self importance? Are you making the point that no Government is going to restrict religion and keep you from meeting? And then there is the 15 minutes of fame, problem. are you doing this for the benefit of the Congregation, or because news media may pick this up and give you publicity?
2. Whenever i see things like this I want to follow the Money. Churches have ongoing expenses whether or not they hold Services. It is much easier to receive contributions when you have everybody together in one place and you can tell them to "reach into your jeans and pull out those greens" than it is to send a letter to remind them to continue contributions when services are suspended.
3. Once people are there, you can't control their behavior. This happened to me 5 or 6 weeks ago when I attended mass while my wife stayed home, before all of these directives for preventing spread of the virus were in place. A friend of ours sent us something in the mail that we received that week. I found her after Church to let her know we had received the mailing. This Woman is on the "touchy, feeley" side, and she probably grabbed my arm or touched my hand as we talked. When I finished talking to her another female friend of ours who was about 10 feet away waved at me and motioned me to come over and see her. She immediately got me in a Death Grip Hug(She does this to a lot of people and not all the time to me. It's just part of her personality).
About 5 days later I was running a fever and went to the Doctor and was diagnosed with Influenza Strain A. Fortunately I had the flu shot last fall, so the symptoms were more like a moderate cold. I certainly can't prove that I received the flu through my contact with these two. However, if we were holding services now, I wonder if either one of these Women could control their personality tendencies and avoid physical contact.
Your point reminds me of the stories you see about fatal multiple fatality auto accidents. For some reason, it seems like 90 % of the time it is the innocent people in the second car who die while the drunken driver or reckless speeder who caused the accident live.
Hey Van! Thought you might have an interest in this article about Georgia considering closing down worship services:
https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-n...gations-amid-pandemic/xjDx2urFFZqS7qsIR6Ma5H/
https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-n...gations-amid-pandemic/xjDx2urFFZqS7qsIR6Ma5H/
Here's a poignant message from ICU Nurses in a hand written note viewed through a separation window:
*****We Are Here For You. PLEASE STAY HOME FOR US.*****
//If you won't listen to us, maybe you'll listen to them...\\
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...inion/coronavirus-trump-evangelicals.amp.html
Religious Right crippling fight against Coronavirus. That make you proud, Van?
Religious Right crippling fight against Coronavirus. That make you proud, Van?
Came across an interesting story involving travel and the virus. A client of mine owns a vacation home in Saint Martin. He is retired so he spends time there from just after the first of the year until late March or early April. I talked to him several times since he was down there, and knew that he planned to return at month's end. When I looked at the calendar several days ago, I thought I better call him and see if he could get back home without a problem.
He was already home. He and his girlfriend discovered that they were planning to close the airport the day before they were scheduled to leave. Fortunately they were able to change their Plans and leave early with a flight back to Miami, with a transfer to Charlotte, and then a transfer to Fort Wayne.
Saint Martin is an island, so a lot of their goods come in by boat, but I am sure there are smaller items that come in periodically by Plane. Wonder how they will deal with that problem over the next few months.
He was already home. He and his girlfriend discovered that they were planning to close the airport the day before they were scheduled to leave. Fortunately they were able to change their Plans and leave early with a flight back to Miami, with a transfer to Charlotte, and then a transfer to Fort Wayne.
Saint Martin is an island, so a lot of their goods come in by boat, but I am sure there are smaller items that come in periodically by Plane. Wonder how they will deal with that problem over the next few months.
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
Crap article. The very first sentence is not true. We don't deny science. We reject science with an agenda. Evolution for instance is taught as fact, but it is not a fact. It is a theory. For something to be a fact you have to be able to use the scientific method on it. Part of this is observation. The problem is we were not there at the beginning. We can't observe evolution as far as one species becoming another. Of course we observe change within species. We can even direct it if we want. None of us are saying this virus isn't real. If I lived in New York or Washington where it is more pronounced then we wouldn't be having services. But the virus is not here yet. Once we start seeing more then I will preach on the internet like some other pastors have done.
The article had an agenda but your attitude that you'll wait till it gets here is lunacy. You won't know it's upon you until a week After it shows up...; by then you'll have spread it to your entire community...!
Forget the science, your choice is simply a Common Sense one...
What if the agenda of science is the truth, as it should be (and I'm not saying this article is truthful)? I think you'd still be against it, if it differed from your agenda, as is the case in this situation with you still meeting. The truth is we know that puts others at risk, and yet you refuse to follow that advice. One of the worst outbreaks in SC is in a fairly small and rural county, and others have posted articles of similar outbreaks fostered by meetings of their CHURCH! They are not in Wash or NY either. I try and give you the benefit of the doubt on here, but damn you make it hard sometimes. Don't take this the wrong way, but I wish you were a garbageman, trade or postal worker and not a pastor. Again, I try and give folks the benefit of the doubt, but you have no business leading folks and trying to give them life advice.
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
Luckily my people disagree with you and appreciate me. I talked to some of them this morning about the virus situation. We are monitoring it and are being careful. One guy suggested that if we end up needing to not meet together perhaps we could meet in the parking lot so people would stay in their cars and I would preach from the parking lot. We even have a movable organ/piano/ synthesizer that can be used. So we are taking it seriously. We've only had a couple of people in the whole county who have come down with the virus and they are being quarantined. We will take appropriate steps when necessary.
Sooo . . . essentially you'd have Boat Church but in a parking lot instead of on a lake . . . I like the idea . . . and the creativity!
Is this an Ozarks spinoff?
Could be if you want it to be . . .
. . . the fact is I went to Boat Church in Rabun County (Lake Rabun) 33 years ago, long before Ozark was an evil thought in someone's sick mind.
BTW, Ozark is filmed just north of here on Lake Allatoona . . . so not a bad thought on your part.
Our Parish Priest is doing something similar. The Diocese has suspended all Sunday Masses indefinitely. However, he is hearing "drive up" confessions from 4:00 to 5:00 p.m. in the Church/school Parking Lot. I have suggested creating an express lane for 3 Sins or less.
So..., the fact that the governor of Pennsylvania has shut down all of the schools in your state makes zero impression on you or your Deacons...?
Holy shit, you are quite possibly the dumbest SOB on the planet. You think the virus announces when it's going to show up? People get sick up to 14 days after being exposed.
And of course you deny science. You don't even understand science as you misuse terms like theory.
I know the recommended quarantine period is generally 14 days, but I haven't seen any cases where anyone who knew or guessed when they were exposed got sick that long after. Generally from what I've seen it's been 2-4 days after exposure, thankfully. But then you can be sick for several days, so I think the 14 day period includes a safety buffer. I'm not trying to nitpick but I'd often heard early on that it might take as long as 14 days to show symptoms and I've not seen anything close to that, and if it were true, then the quarantine period needs to be closer to 4 weeks.
The average is about 5 days.... but up to 14 has been observed.
Regardless.... @VanPastorMan is a terribly irresponsible human being. And dumb as a fkn rock.
Listened to an interview with Dr. Fauci, he stated that the virus quite possibly started with ONE person in China and has now spread across the entire planet. That is mind boggling in terms of the infectious abilities of the virus.
I suppose with few facts considered, your little gatherings are no different than going into a crowded grocery for a gallon of milk.
I suppose with few facts considered, your little gatherings are no different than going into a crowded grocery for a gallon of milk.
People gotta eat. Personally, I don't think people need to hear Van preach. But obviously they feel differently, and Van isn't about to try and dissuade them.
PA ordered all non life- sustaining business to shut their doors a week ago. Apparently Van is sustaining life.
“My people” lol. You sound more like Jim Jones all the time. Probably going to end the same for some of your flock too. Try not to take too many innocents with you, please limit contact only to the dummies showing up to hear your bs...
again, THAT's the problem. These yokels will be taking the beds and respirators, because they'll almost assuredly be in the first wave in his area, and they'll have the respirators those who come later will die without. Then, as I said, they'll be back in church a couple weeks later saying "Praise God he spared me, 'cause he let a lot of sinners die!"
I think VPM likes few facts considered. The fewer the better apparently.
Honestly, Van, going to the grocery store DOES put you at risk. Going anywhere where other people are at DOES put you at risk. This is precisely why you should not be holding church services. It really is that serious and the virus really is that contagious.
You mentioned your county only having one case. That's one confirmed case. You do realize, right, that not everyone in your county has been tested? And that the virus takes days up to over a week to incubate and show symptoms? I guarantee you, your county has more than one person infected. We have 2 confirmed cases in Brown County now. Do you know how sparsely populated Brown County is? I don't know where you live in PA but I bet you have more people there in your county than we do here. And you're closer to NY so the migration of the virus will hit you soon enough.
By the way, on buying groceries? You should have already bought at least a couple weeks worth - weeks and weeks ago when everyone was telling us to do that. You're a little late now.
You need to close the church effective tomorrow.
Yes it is. You just aren't seeing it yet. Waiting until "we start seeing more" will be too late. That's what ALL the experts are saying. That's why we're in the mess we're in with this virus - too many people waited too long. You're waiting too long.
The problem with being a leader in any environment is that you can take it one of two ways. You can admit that there is a higher power than you and subject yourself to that power, and recognize that on earth, there are people with expertise on certain subjects that exceeds your expertise and their input should be taken seriously and considered in any decisions that are made. In short, you need to recognize that you are not the sharpest knife in the Drawer and the guidance of the higher power is necessary for you to lead your followers to achieve a better personal and spiritual life, and that part of that equation is that the higher power will surround you with the resources to help you improve yourself and those around you if you are smart enough to recognize and utilize those resources.
On the other hand, you can be egotistical enough to believe that you are that power and all things to all people, wrap yourself in the Cloak of Religion and as much of the Word of the Bible as you want your followers to see. Your Goal isn't to make your followers better people and improve their relationship with God.It is to prey on their weaknesses to gain control of their lives ( and in some cases their financial assets). Then you isolate these people from the outside world and family, and convince them those are necessary steps so they can become worthy to enter the kingdom. While they are living like peasants under strict daily schedules and moral rules, you live like a King off their assets in a completely different lifestyle. When their lives are ruined and circle the porcelin Goddess, you are off on an Island somewhere with The Money of the Organization in your Swiss Bank account. Alternatively, if everything goes wrong, you die as a Martyr along with your followers in a contrived incident (Jim Jones, David Koresh).
It's your choice as to which type of leader you want to become.
I understand that he feels his message to be the most important out there.
What I don't understand is why he can't grasp the concept that he's putting everyone in his county at risk by holding services indoors...
I found a new activity to do while maintaining social distance. My wife and I played Yahtzee with my daughter and son in law via Facetime. The game continued through severe weather. We each had dice and score cards. Going to try a game of dice with our friends next weekend.
Sorry, but it is dumb to continue to have a congregation together when there are a number of ways to preach safely. We have had our service with our pastor, liturgist, organist and our music leader broadcasting on video seen from the church website and Facebook live for 3 weeks. We have a Thursday video conference where we check in on each other and identify people that might need things drooped off at their house..
For Easter, the pastor will be broadcasting from a platform in a large parking lot broadcasting through a FM frequency we will listen to in our cars. Communion will be done in a service online with every person selecting their own elements and being blessed by the pastor in the live feed.
Be creative, Be smart. Invest in a Zoom account to connect with everyone that has a computer and the internet . Most importantly, BE A GOOD AND RESPONSIBLE MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY AND STOP PUTTING PEOPLE AT RISK WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO!
Omg...do you even KNOW what a scientific theory is?
Some examples...
Theory of gravity
Germ theory of disease
Theory of evolution
Einstein's theories of general and special relativity
A scientific theory is NOT somebody's guess, a hypothesis, a conjecture, a wild and uncertain idea, or anything like the lay public use the term "theory".
A scientific theory is a unifying principle, a concept far more established and true than are even the many laws which support the larger theory.
The principles of evolution are as firmly established as is the existence of gravity.
To think that there are people out there like you, people so utterly ignorant, and people responsible for perpetuating that ignorance in others that come to them for guidance, is CHILLING.
You are an abomination to civilized society. No, I am not exaggerating.
Again, the hypocrite.
First, you wrote, "For something to be a fact you have to be able to use the scientific method on it. Part of this is observation."
Then, you asserted as a fact, "But the virus is not here yet."
You don't know that "the virus is not here yet" and you cannot possibly demonstrate that as fact by the scientific method you claim you follow.
Yes, by all means!! What about the grocery stores?! What about New York City!!
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