Coronavirus, Thoughts, Musings, Observations

Discussion in 'Andy's Off Topic Forum' started by Crossblock, Mar 21, 2020.

  1. zeke4ahs

    zeke4ahs Hall of Famer
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    33,591
    Likes Received:
    10,038
    Are you too far in woods for delivery services? I had Kroger deliver to me this week, in case anything comes up. That sounds really stressful to be worrying about surgery right now. Try to get out when the weather is nice like today and don’t watch too much news. I about have a panic attack when I do. Find something good to read and watch. I watch a lot, but almost every day I watch at least one episode of The Office to make me laugh. Good luck.
     
  2. zeke4ahs

    zeke4ahs Hall of Famer
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    33,591
    Likes Received:
    10,038
    I think everyone is having anxiety right now, but you have pretty legitimate things to be anxious about. I’m a people person with lots of anxiety, so this is very difficult for me. I decided last weekend I needed a routine. I’ve been doing some form of exercise and get it in before noon. It’s food for you endorphins and makes you feel better the rest of the day. Lots of exercise classes on YouTube of you need them. I try to do one project in my house a day. I usually hate talking on the phone, but now I’m making sure I have a personal interaction at least. I’m lucky in that my neighbors and I have all been distancing for awhile, so we stand outside and chat when weather is nice. Make sure you talk to your family as much as you can. Now’s the time to call an old buddy you haven’t talked to in awhile. We’re all home! If you’re a reader get some book recommendations to download and find things you enjoy to watch. I’ve watched a few old IU basketball games. Limit your news and social media time. Besides Sope’s meditation ( and thanks for the links, I might try that too), you might think about journaling, puzzles, things to keep your mind busy. This has been helping for me, hope some of it might be useful for you.
     
    Cream&Crimson likes this.
  3. VanPastorMan

    VanPastorMan Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    Messages:
    13,760
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
    As of last week we are still having church. We've decided to not hug or shake hands, wash our hands a lot, and not be right near each other. To be honest I noticed that human touch meant more to me than I realized. Some of our elderly folks have decided to stay home for a while so I called them. It's good to hear their voice, but I can't see them or touch them. I'll be ready for this virus to say adios.
     
  4. tooold4

    tooold4 Freshman
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2018
    Messages:
    652
    Likes Received:
    397
    Good on you.
    I had much the same experience when SWMBO half convinced me I was not the man she married and had become a depressed asshole. Instead of saying no shite and pointing to the years of scuffling that might produce a bit of Darwin(esque) mutation or choosing the more dangerous path of holding up a mirror facing in her direction, I chose to just go with the flow. Took a few pills, after being surprised at how easy it was to obtain them, and the result was much the same as yours. Didn't take me a month though, my history with pill taking led me to believe in immediate effects of feeling goooood, not jittery.
    I'll share my personal mantra developed after making mistake after mistake in my life. "I can always make matters worse". It tends to bring a smile to my face because I'm real capable of FSUBAR(stuff). I don't take pride in screwing things up other than stirring the pot on occasion, but I do find it semi amusing that I handled depression by laughing at it.

    John Prine, Hunter Thompson and Bill Murray have something to say:
     
  5. VanPastorMan

    VanPastorMan Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    Messages:
    13,760
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
    One thing about your post which is encouraging is you know these things. You have a handle on your feelings. Some people don't want to admit they are anxious. At least you know. I hope your medication can be weaned easily and am glad you have sick leave to use. Hang in there my friend.
     
    Cream&Crimson likes this.
  6. Cream&Crimson

    Cream&Crimson All-Big Ten
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2003
    Messages:
    4,956
    Likes Received:
    2,571
    Thanks Zeke. Yeah, I'm too far away from delivery services. But I'm ok for a good month at least I think. I'm trying to detach from all the news over the past few days some, because, yeah, it about puts me in a panic if I focus on it too much. Trying to just watch something distracting. But it's hard to do that because I'm so concerned about how everything is going and what's happening. It's a struggle right now.
     
    sdhoosier and hookyIU1990 like this.
  7. UncleMark

    UncleMark Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2001
    Messages:
    15,485
    Likes Received:
    12,087
    Personally not a fan of this kind of medication except in the most serious cases. Clinical depression is some badass shit; chronic depression can be debilitating and acute depression can be deadly. But too often meds are prescribed for a quick fix for transient stress or anxiety, and how one reacts to the particular drug and dosage is hit or miss. I've seen it backfire spectacularly with a number of the people I see in my volunteer work.
     
  8. kkott

    kkott Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    13,600
    Likes Received:
    6,918
    I hope you have the sense to fix that. There is just no reason to risk a group meeting and churches, of all places, should be showing leadership in not meeting and going online. I've watched church services the last 2 weeks and enjoyed the message. This church is still doing a smaller choir after they vet participants and place them 6' apart. Guessing that your congregation, like most, is elderly, if you keep meeting as a church you're most likely going to be helping to say adios to some of your members or other neighbors if your members are lucky enough to get beds, medical attention and resources that will quickly be unavailable to everyone who needs it. I heard a broadcast of a rural hospital, the only one in an IN county of 28,000 and they have 1 ventilator. Healthcare workers are going to be hard-pressed enough, they don't need to be pushed faster in to making a decision of who to give 1 ventilator to, when they have 2 or more sick people who will die without it. Foolish, selfish and irresponsible are not Christian values. Take your message and worship online and embrace the opportunities that creates. The church is not the building or pews, your message will reach your members online and you might be surprised at who else you reach. The church I mentioned's viewership apparently is exceeding their normal in-person and online audience for a normal Sunday.
     
  9. VanPastorMan

    VanPastorMan Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    Messages:
    13,760
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
    We are smaller right now and do practice the 6' rule. I hear ya. We've had one incident of the virus in our county. So we are keeping an eye on the situation. Our most vulnerable elderly members are staying home. They don't have computers and I am not sure they do internet on their phones. What I have been doing is calling them individually and having extended conversations.
     
  10. Cream&Crimson

    Cream&Crimson All-Big Ten
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2003
    Messages:
    4,956
    Likes Received:
    2,571
    This, is awesome. I love John Prine, and Bill Murray. Two of my favorite humans that I don't actually know. Looking up that song now...

    Thank you.
     
  11. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    5,697
    Likes Received:
    7,324
    Location:
    Indiana

    Don't be This Guy:

    A devout minister found himself trapped on a roof during an extreme flood event..., an emergency team came by in a boat offering assistance... The minister said: "I'm fine, the Lord will protect me...", later..., as the water rose to within an inch of the top of his perch an emergency services helicopter flew over, spotted him, came back, hovered and dropped him a horse collar long line, all the while pleading with him to grab it..., his response: "the Lord will protect me..."

    An hour later our devout, "non-swimmer", minister found himself in front of Saint Peter next to the the Pearly Gates...

    Saint Peter looked at his ledger twice and boomed in a irritated and surprised growl: "What are You doing here? We sent you a boat And a helicopter!!!!!

    Moral of the story:

    The Lord Gave You a Brain, He Wants You To Use It To Make Good Decisions
     
    51 76-1, Mar 26, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
    Cream&Crimson and kkott like this.
  12. VanPastorMan

    VanPastorMan Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    Messages:
    13,760
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
    I am not that guy so it's good news. We are being very safe, doing the six ft rule, distancing, washing our hands. And if one was sick staying home.
     
  13. kkott

    kkott Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    13,600
    Likes Received:
    6,918
    Getting a group of people together, especially with no other limitation than "stay home if you're sick", is not being very safe. 1) you shouldn't be gathering at all; you have options (radio perhaps?), but no one who has been on a plane or airport in the last 2 weeks, nor in NYC, nor in a household or proximity w someone who has, should be there. Even then the trouble is, someone can meet those requirements, but the person they interacted with at the grocery store a few days ago, didn't. Just be prepared to have on your conscious if one of your members, or someone in their household gets very ill or dies. Why would you risk that?
     
    Cream&Crimson and 76-1 like this.
  14. VanPastorMan

    VanPastorMan Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    Messages:
    13,760
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
    Our elderly are staying home. We don't have a way for them to hear services right now, but are working on it. Believe me the Deacons and I have been very serious about this issue. We've talked a lot about the issues you brought up in fact.
     
  15. kkott

    kkott Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    13,600
    Likes Received:
    6,918
    I'm sorry, but if you're still meeting, you're not very serious about the issue. Do personal bible study, book read/book on tape, youtube or share recorded messages. There are 1,000s of great discussions, sermons and studies available. If your church is of any size, I can almost guarantee there are folks there that shouldn't be (that's just Myrtle.... nothing is keeping her from church on Sunday!). Elderly, risk factors.... why would they stay home, you're not?
     
    76-1 likes this.
  16. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    5,697
    Likes Received:
    7,324
    Location:
    Indiana
    If that is how you're approaching this, you Are that guy...
     
  17. Cream&Crimson

    Cream&Crimson All-Big Ten
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2003
    Messages:
    4,956
    Likes Received:
    2,571
    VPN: Shut it down. You're being irresponsible. What makes you think you people gathering in your church is any less reckless or dangerous than people working in offices, etc? You're taking chances with people's lives.

    Edit: the only way we can slow the spread of this virus is to have everyone - everyone who possibly can - to stay home. Period. Getting together for church services right now is not wise.
     
    57 Cream&Crimson, Mar 26, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
    kkott, cryano and 76-1 like this.
  18. VanPastorMan

    VanPastorMan Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    Messages:
    13,760
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
    By your reasoning should every business shut down altogether? My youngest daughter works at McDonalds. She is with those people far more than we are together at church. We have Sunday School and Two Church services. The most anybody would be at church would be three hours on a Sunday. In my mind we are more safe than any business where people are together for 8 hrs a day, five days a week. Now don't get me wrong. I think you and I want the same things which is safety. Our elderly are shut in and don't see people. In fact I was on the phone today with a few of them.
     
  19. Cream&Crimson

    Cream&Crimson All-Big Ten
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2003
    Messages:
    4,956
    Likes Received:
    2,571
    McDonald's, groceries, and other food and essential service businesses are open because people need to eat and need essential supplies and services. And I feel for those people working in those businesses, like both of my kids.

    Everyone else should be staying home.
     
    59 Cream&Crimson, Mar 26, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
    outside shooter, cryano and 76-1 like this.
  20. VanPastorMan

    VanPastorMan Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    Messages:
    13,760
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
    I think those folks need masks. I haven't seen anybody with them yet, but it seems like it would be a good idea.
     
    76-1 likes this.
  21. zeke4ahs

    zeke4ahs Hall of Famer
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    33,591
    Likes Received:
    10,038
    kkott and cryano like this.
  22. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    5,697
    Likes Received:
    7,324
    Location:
    Indiana
    I hate to say it but people like you and your flock (multiplied by the whole country) are exactly the reason I have an extremely hard time believing this will be over by Easter...

    Please stay out of Indiana for the next 18 months. We've got enough people roaming around believing it can't affect them and they can't hurt anyone else...

    You've always seemed to be an okay guy but you and your Deacons need to look at the bigger picture and think of others outside your church. You guys could end up infecting 3 or 4 counties, plus...!!!

    You're being extraordinarily self absorbed in your approach, in my opinion.
     
    sdhoosier and MaxCoke like this.
  23. VanPastorMan

    VanPastorMan Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    Messages:
    13,760
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
    I never said the virus could not infect us. I said we are careful to make sure it doesn't. We have only had one case in our county and the man who had it knew he wasn't feeling well and self quarantined after he got back from Philly because he didn't feel well after being there for an extended time. We are being careful with the self distancing ie six feet rule, and not shaking hands, and washing our hands often.
     
  24. kkott

    kkott Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    13,600
    Likes Received:
    6,918
    They do need masks, but in case you haven't noticed, and you probably haven't since you're still having your church meet, there is a national shortage of masks right now. Anyone who has to go out needs one, but the worry right now is can we even get enough together for our healthcare workers to deal with this crisis. I heard an administrator saying his hospital is conserving, but they aren't in bad shape because they have a 2 week supply. Guess what, this isn't going away in 2 weeks. In 2 weeks they are likely to have 4-5X the number of patients they do now and probably 10% less staff.
     
    sdhoosier and 76-1 like this.
  25. kkott

    kkott Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    13,600
    Likes Received:
    6,918
    You can't take enough precautions to overcome the risk that gathering presents. There are still many opportunities for transmission beyond not shaking hands. Does every door open automatically? Hand railings? Folks aren't using the bathrooms when you meet? I'll bet you're still passing the collection plate, right? And, as I said, you can take every precaution you want, but there's no guarantee that the guy who hands one of your parishioners their carry out order, or who they passed in the grocery store the day before did.
     
    sdhoosier and 76-1 like this.
  26. VanPastorMan

    VanPastorMan Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    Messages:
    13,760
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
    Stopped the plate. We put it in the back. The things you talked about are things we have talked about. It's why we wash our hands because we don't have automatic doors etc. I'm with you on being careful.
     
  27. kkott

    kkott Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    13,600
    Likes Received:
    6,918
    No, no your not. I'm sure God will protect you. You're one step removed from snake handling, so why stop there? I'd suggest a large timber rattler for you, as I think they're one of the only indigenous poisonous snakes in PA. Remember to wash your hands. No worries, I'm sure God will protect you.
     
    Cream&Crimson and sglowrider like this.
  28. The Vid

    The Vid All-American
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    7,039
    Likes Received:
    3,439
    Microcosm as to why the US is going to really struggle with this.
     
  29. zeke4ahs

    zeke4ahs Hall of Famer
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    33,591
    Likes Received:
    10,038
    This is typical Van. Every single person is telling Van to stop this, that it is dangerous and it could end up,killing people. I guess Van thinks his job is to help people meet the Lord sooner, rather than later? This is exactly the reason this will not be over as quickly as in other countries. We have stubborn, obstinate, irresponsible people who won’t follow the rules. Is your gathering over 8 people? Do the leaders above you in the church know you are still doing it? Shame on them and shame on you.
     
  30. jet812

    jet812 Senior
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,463
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    If it were just you & your flock that would get sick & die we could just chalk it up to natural selection, but the sad part is you’re all likely to get others sick as well...
     
    UncleMark, 76-1, kkott and 1 other person like this.
  31. sglowrider

    sglowrider Hall of Famer
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    17,545
    Likes Received:
    12,074
    Location:
    Tiny Red Dot
    [​IMG]
     
  32. hookyIU1990

    hookyIU1990 Senior
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    2,480
    Likes Received:
    2,650
    I don't have a single friend that is still going to church on Sundays. Even the little country church where 5 generations of my family have attended has moved to streaming only during this time.

    You should look into the option https://sermon.net/

    You and the Deacons should also take a look at some of the research and policy http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19
     
    76-1, sdhoosier and Sope Creek like this.
  33. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    5,697
    Likes Received:
    7,324
    Location:
    Indiana
    Van, read the first paragraph of this article from Johns Hopkins (famous university [in the medical field] in MD):

    https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/03/20/sars-cov-2-survive-on-surfaces/

    Just based on those numbers, there is no possible way that just staying 6 feet apart will provide real protection...

    I heard on one of the news channels a doctor say that when someone sneezes those droplets expelled can travel up to 18 feet...( now that sounds like a Hurculean sneeze to me but even if it's only half that distance you have a major problem)...

    Hopefully everyone in your building can anticipate every sneeze and cover properly but even if they try to do everything right COVID19 is clearly so persistent and infectious that all it will take is one person coughing on their hand rather than in their elbow, or not washing their hands long enough..., to spread it to the whole congregation...

    I can't quote scripture accurately but as I recall there's something in there about Not putting the Lord to the test...
     
    kkott likes this.
  34. Sope Creek

    Sope Creek Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    41,061
    Likes Received:
    5,968
    Van, you're gambling, plain and simple, and so is your congregation.

    This is going to be hard for you to accept, I know, but the fact is that churches are not synonymous with God . . . and therefore churches can become idols that are worshiped instead of the worshiping of God. I see it all over the place in liberal, conservative, evangelical and traditional churches . . . .

    I suspect that might know Deuteronomy 30: 15-20, which is the passage that Right-To-Life folks like to cite. I'll cite it here, from the KJV (emphasis provided):

    15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

    16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

    17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

    18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

    19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

    20 That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

    I'm not going to tell you what you should do; Lord knows that you're too hardheaded for me to be able to do that anyway. But I am going to ask you to consider whether you actually are doing what God wants you to be doing regarding your congregation, or whether you and your congregation just might be testing God in a way that Jesus said no one should . . . see Matthew 4:7.

    God will be with each of your congregants at home . . . and y'all can rejoice with the fullest of joy when they make it through this epidemic . . . plus in the meantime y'all can set up a phone tree to maintain contact with the congregation, raising up any personal concerns that the congregants might have through those calls.

    Your call.

    In any case, and in all cases for you and your congregation, I pray that you and your congregation have the love of the Lord thy God, that you may obey his voice, and that you may cleave unto him . . . for the fullest length of your days. Amen.
     
  35. VanPastorMan

    VanPastorMan Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    Messages:
    13,760
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
    So what you are saying is all of us are going to get this if we go outside. How can we get food at restaurants at the drive through if this virus is possibly on food handlers? If six feet is not enough then why were were told six feet was enough? By this article I question whether we can even go to the grocery store. I will be careful as I can, but I have to live. Now if this virus was rampant here like in like New York City I would probably buy a bunch of groceries and never leave the house and then preach online somehow, though some of my people would not have the ability to see it.
     
  36. VanPastorMan

    VanPastorMan Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    Messages:
    13,760
    Likes Received:
    2,384
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
    We are not hardheaded. But we don't overreact. These are good Pennsylvania folks. As we had our meeting, we are monitoring the situation closely.
     
  37. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    5,697
    Likes Received:
    7,324
    Location:
    Indiana
    We pride ourselves on not overreacting here in INDIANA too.

    Guess what: https://www.in.gov/gov/3232.htm
     
  38. Sope Creek

    Sope Creek Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    41,061
    Likes Received:
    5,968
    hookyIU1990 and kkott like this.
  39. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    5,697
    Likes Received:
    7,324
    Location:
    Indiana
    Tell you what: The relatives of those of your congregation that die from COVID19 next month ought to bring you and your Deacons up on murder charges because you clearly had the information you needed to make the correct decision to keep them safe but didn't. Same thing with the relatives of those who end up being infected peripherally by your flock...
     
  40. kkott

    kkott Hall of Famer
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    13,600
    Likes Received:
    6,918
    It's not just that. These dumbasses will likely live... but they'll be in the hospital beds with the respirators that the ones that come after them need, and they'll be the ones that die. And then these dumbasses will end up back at church saying: "thank God the Lord spared me, 'cause he let a bunch of sinners die!"

    I think because it's once removed, people aren't grasping the problem. This virus isn't that lethal, IF it can be treated, but it's the lack of access to beds, medical personnel and especially the ventilators that is going to kill people. That's why the fatality rate is so much higher in Italy at the moment, they are at or past the critical mass stage where they don't have enough ventilators and resources so way more people are dying. That's when the gov't will really get serious about it, once it's too late and we start having high mortality rates because of the lack of equipment.
     
    80 kkott, Mar 27, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
    MaxCoke, 76-1 and sdhoosier like this.

Share This Page