Did Einstein catch Newton in a lie about laws of motion? Or did science do what science does, and correct itself?
Coronavirus case increase sets new U.S. record, rising to over 184K in one day
- Thread starter sglowrider
- Start date
So you still believe disease is caused by bad air or is punishment from god? Or have you updated your beliefs as science and knowledge has moved forward>
Why do you go out of your way to blame others but deflect any accountability when it comes to Trump's role?
The Homeland Security angle has not been tested, but local authority is clear. If Federal authorities request local authorities to comply and demand local enforcement, they won't get 100% cooperation, but that is not a huge concern. Any added complicance helps. Plus they can use federal resources to assist at a higher level those who choose to comply. States did not have to raise the drinking age to 21, but Reagan sure got them all to fall in line, didn't he? (I'm not arguing that 21 is the proper drinking age.)
irrelevant. the reason we were told they were ineffective was because of a fear of a run on them. that's a lie. the truth would have been "they are effective we believe and you can make your own but we can only give what we have to first line people." when you begin with a lie you create a sense of skepticism that will poison all that is said. if you don't believe it look to our liar in chief. see lots of people made mistakes but when you have tunnel vision you lose all credibility as well as undermine the ability to have meaningful discussions. being hopelessly biased/partisan is an obstacle plaguing our country.
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Dumb. Nobody lied. They were not sure at the time how effective non-surgical mask were.
If you think a recommendation is 50/50 on whether it's valid, you also consider the possible consequences. Then when more science makes the obvious recommendation to make clearer, you prepare for the consequences, make the proper recommendation, and hope that some dictatorial buffoon doesn't undermine your efforts.
Some dictatorial buffoon undermined the efforts. To your applause.
If you think a recommendation is 50/50 on whether it's valid, you also consider the possible consequences. Then when more science makes the obvious recommendation to make clearer, you prepare for the consequences, make the proper recommendation, and hope that some dictatorial buffoon doesn't undermine your efforts.
Some dictatorial buffoon undermined the efforts. To your applause.
you said we were told they were ineffective (lie) because they were concealing their effectiveness due to a shortage. correct? these were your words. do you know what a lie is?
I assumed Fauci based his initial opinion on the Hong Kong study which showed masks didn't prevent spread of respiratory virus (flu, specifically) spread by aerosol.
I wear my mask when I shop, because I don't want to be stabbed, but I don't believe warnings and projections that wearing them will save tens of thousands of lives. I expect flu deaths to overtake covid deaths very soon, except many flu patients will also have covid (I wonder how they'll be coded and reported?)
The CDC needs to begin heavy messaging about cheap and effective measures available now to limit severity and improve our ability to recover. I wonder how many lives were lost because of the politically motivated backlash against hydroxychloroquine?
local health boards. ohhhhhhh so we're back to state and local. got it. federalism. again. not trump. not feds.
There is a lot we didn't know. Here is a story from July stating that there was a growing belief that COVID was spread through the air. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02058-1. That is why so much emphasis was on hand washing. Not that hand washing is bad, but it isn't nearly as important as distance and/or masks. Remember the early days when people were advised to wipe down their groceries?
In addition, we didn't know early on how many people would be asymptomatic. That is the biggest reason for masks. We assume people are smart enough to stay home if they feel like they are dying (though way too many ignore that sage wisdom). But the fact that 50% are asymptomatic and even symptomatics start shedding the virus before showing symptoms. Once that all that was known, mask logic changed.
that's all well and good and acceptable, but materially different than concealing a shortage of masks and not wanting a rush on same so telling people you don't know or don't think they work is a lie.
Trump had a role. He should have kept his mouth shut except to urge Americans to heed the advice of his experts. His experts should have had their shit together. "Fifteen days to slow the spread" has become seven months. Store shelves still haven't recovered from the panic buying of last spring, although they are improving. There was a small study which said 85% of patients who tested positive wore masks "almost all the time". Even places with strict lockdowns have outbreaks because although we can hold it back some, it cant be stopped.
There are still shortages, this article claims 20% of nursing homes still cannot get adequate supplies of PPE. https://uspirg.org/feature/usp/nursing-home-safety-during-covid-ppe-shortages. Many medical facilities still require mask reuse.
Why is it a lie, to avoid making a recommendation that has known negative consequences, if you are not at all sure that the recommendation would be based on sound science?
Why is it a lie, when you later make a recommendation despite its known negative consequences, when you become sure that the recommendation will indeed be based on sound science?
Neither the inital assessment nor the revision was a lie. They were each informed decisions.
Your inability to grasp science (or the truth, for that matter) has no bearing on its validity.
Why is it a lie, when you later make a recommendation despite its known negative consequences, when you become sure that the recommendation will indeed be based on sound science?
Neither the inital assessment nor the revision was a lie. They were each informed decisions.
Your inability to grasp science (or the truth, for that matter) has no bearing on its validity.
that's fine. my point is that misinformation and lies and mistakes by fauci, who, and cdc created distrust. when you lie and f up at the outset it's hard to get people back. then throw in a serial lying commander in chief and we are where we are today as it relates to masks. and fwiw europe has 1.3 mil cases in a week. this is just a really tough virus to handle without draconian measures
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We can go back and forth forever here. But let’s look back over the last week where POTUS mocked a reporter for wearing a mask and his Chief of Staff did the same to Biden during a reporter gaggle. This means something. Some people who are vehemently anti mask might wear one if Trump supported it. That’s all.
you don't apparently understand what a lie is. you said they didn't want people to wear masks because they didn't have enough masks YET instead of saying that they told us they don't know if they work or not, which was apparently a lie. the truth is we don't want you to wear masks because we don't have enough for you.
You apparently cannot read, because I listed 3 reasons and claimed that they were all important, and one of those 3 reasons was that they really didn't know if they work or not, another was that there was a mask shortage due to govenment incompetence, and the 3rd was that the mask shortage would likely get worse if masks were mandated at that time.
Is you brain completely incapable of processing the fact that multiple factors may influence a single decision?
lmao you're the "scientist" who can't add nor interpret data. so one was honest and the other two were concealed - so they lied.
What people don't or won't understand when they talk about the US and its states is that Federalism applies to the states in Public Health policy. There is no such thing as a US policy. Different states have different versions.
outside shooter's a dumb ass. has no understanding of the very point you note. people like him with zero understanding of how the system works exacerbate their stupidity with hyper partisanship. he just can't believe the dems or gov could conceal, or lie, or engage in acts of omission. political expediency is often a euphemism for lying. our prez has been doing it for four years.
Nice quotes. I am sure that you are quite the "expert" on "science".
I had a milestone earlier this month, my 100th scientific publication. I'm up to 101, now, pending a minor revision.
There’s definitely an element of BS to that, due respect to Fauci, in that Trump rejected offers in January by at least one American company to ramp up production of N95 masks.
He's no dumb ass. He provides valuable info on a variety of topics.
We probably need 80+% compliance (has to be worn correctly, 50-75% in my county wear them wrong, like under the nose) on masks to really minimize infections. We also need effective masks (N95) not some damn gaiters I would wear in a deer stand.
The enforcement powers aren't present and neither are enough efficient masks
Newton’s Laws are correct and applicable at least as approximations on Earth and at the speeds we operate.
to still not understand how government works and to be on a board dedicated to politics and to be imparting hyper partisanship about same is a dumb ass. to act like all fault rests on one individual with covid is a dumb ass. i will never understand how people can be so blinded into believing one side is so far above reproach to ignore all the mistakes and misinformation that has transpired. and believe me trump is number one in terms of fault. but the F ups travel far and wide with this thing.
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Massachusetts 1,400 deaths per million. Florida projected by Nov 1st, 800 deaths per million. That damn Sweden has 600 deaths per million. Schools open in FL and Sweden. Has Massachusetts done a better job than FL or Sweden?
The top setting on the dial reads "VPM". It is one notch above "Breitbart", two above "CoH", and three above "Tucker"
i sincerely believe we are the greatest country in the world. like superman. and we can overcome anything. but a pandemic like this is just kryptonite to who we are as a nation. if you told janice we're under attack she'd fight to the death to protect her neighbors. if you told her to wear a mask you get this.
What's the definition of the greatest country on Earth? Surely it's not based on the ability to galvanize the greatest resources in the world to fight a tiny virus -- that has since developed more than 9million cases (probably more) or 3% of the population and will ramp up now with the approaching winter months -- and more deaths than anyone in the world?
If you can send a man to the moon but can't figure out how to fight this pandemic --
a) It may not be the greatest country in the world.
b) it may be the greatest country in the world but its been fecked by certain politicians
If its not be the ''greatest country'' in the world. Then if that's the case, what do you do next?
My point is jingoistic claims like that is why and how a country starts to slide into decline. As any successful sports manager and they rarely make those statements about their teams. The players get less hungry. They will walk about beating their chest without actually putting their brains together and thinking about how to keep the competition away.
It always reminds me of my corporate life where I worked in three globally dominant companies. (The equivalent of the white shoes like Baker/Mackenzie, Latham/Watkins etc and in terms of revenues, but multitudes more.)
You will find several types of people there -- the old-timers who are quite chill and worry about the well-being of the younger generations. And then some of the newbies who are always beating their chest about how great we are.
One had direct contributions to the actual global position and the others riding the coattails. Which is why I prefer working at startups where you are fighting all the time -- more honesty.
Beating your chest is well & good but it adds nothing to ensure that it remains in its hegemonistic position.
And in the case of the pandemic, millions of people seem to prefer guns to masks -- rather than living in the real world and trying to figure out how to beat this pandemic.
Fauci’s approval ratings are pretty high which makes me think most Americans get why he lied. The prez basically became our top public health PR guy the minute this started.
The fact that you so desperately want him to cram down his authority is why you should never be allowed near any levers of power and desperately need a civics lesson.
Anyone that posts that video of Aaron Sorkin fellating himself and thinks it makes some sort of salient point is a f*cking rube.
You complain about jingoism and then post that god awful crap. You are too funny.
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