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Law school is a giant ripoff. Unless you go to a very top tier law school you have next to no job prospects. A lot of law grads these days aren't even working on in the legal field.

Pharmacy school is a close second.

Do a Google search on 'law school grads jobs'. Not many happy campers.

This is a good read, too

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001SSDLPO/ref=pd_aw_sbs_14_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=41aSkGLyILL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL300_SR300,300_&refRID=1W97TFER1B8880SJ43XR

You literally dont have a clue. Does it cost way too much: oh yeah. However, as I stated before, it is still incredibly lucrative. You can make as much as you want to make. If you go to a shit school, your prospects aren't as good. Many of these types of law schools need to, and are, being shuttered

Then again, law school is very difficult and a real academic subject if there ever was one. Not exactly up 20's alley of dumb market U where kids get degrees for knowing less than I did about business after working fast food.

You really think there is a lack of demand for drugs? That is marvelous. Med school isn't exactly cheap, either.
 
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You literally dont have a clue. Does it cost way too much: oh yeah. However, as I stated before, it is still incredibly lucrative. You can make as much as you want to make. If you go to a shit school, your prospects aren't as good. Many of these types of law schools need to, and are, being shuttered

You really think there is a lack of demand for drugs? That is marvelous.

You are a giant dumbass. I said if you go to a T1 law school, great. If not, it's a ripoff for the cost vs income potential. Smart, motivated people can make gobs of money in a lot of industries, without spending 3 years and $100k+ on law school.

As to pharmacy, do some research. Pharm D grads are having serious struggles, and it's growing. It's the same deal as law....way too many schools and now a flood of grads with no market for them.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/blog/pharmacy_school_is_the_new_law.php
 
You are a giant dumbass. I said if you go to a T1 law school, great. If not, it's a ripoff for the cost vs income potential. Smart, motivated people can make gobs of money in a lot of industries, without spending 3 years and $100k+ on law school.

As to pharmacy, do some research. Pharm D grads are having serious struggles, and it's growing. It's the same deal as law....way too many schools and now a flood of grads with no market for them.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/blog/pharmacy_school_is_the_new_law.php

I think we are starting to agree on something: college costs way much more than it used to, and the economy is screwed up for those who graduated after 2008. Perhaps there is a large issue(s) beyond a student's choice of major. You see 20, this is where you think outside the box, reason, perhaps consult history to see if there is something similar from the past to compare and contrast:

Seriously, are you like HR for whatever widget farm you work for? If so, you understand you need a law degree to perform that job, correct?
 
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I think we are starting to agree on something: college costs way much more than it used to, and the economy is screwed up for those who graduated after 2008.

Seriously, are you like HR for whatever widget farm you work for? If so, you understand you need a law degree to perform that job, correct?

No I work in financial management. And it's not even close to widget work. We struggle to get people that are smart enough to really understand most of our stuff, as it usually takes a few years before it starts 'clicking' and they put it all together. It's easy to hire button pushers, not so much to find those that can see/understand big picture strategy.

Yes, I think some of the HR people may have law degrees. We have a general counsel office with a few real lawyers, but not much beyond that.
 
No I work in financial management. And it's not even close to widget work. We struggle to get people that are smart enough to really understand most of our stuff, as it usually takes a few years before it starts 'clicking' and they put it all together. It's easy to hire button pushers, not so much to find those that can see/understand big picture strategy.

Yes, I think some of the HR people may have law degrees. We have a general counsel office with a few real lawyers, but not much beyond that.

Oh, I'm sure it is like God Damn rocket science. All of the brilliant lawyers, doctors, authors, and scientists should just worship you. I guarantee you have made the world a much, much better place than the aforementioned. Shakespeare, Thomas Jefferson, and Einstein are pussies compared you. Bravo, you Atlas of society! How will the world ever turn when you are gone?
 
Oh, I'm sure it is like God Damn rocket science. All of the brilliant lawyers, doctors, authors, and scientists should just worship you. I guarantee you have made the world a much, much better place than the aforementioned. Shakespeare, Thomas Jefferson, and Einstein are pussies compared you. Bravo, you Atlas of society! How will the world ever turn when you are gone?


Why are you such a giant asshole? Please GFY.


I'm sorry you are another in the long line of bitter, pissed off lawyers who feels robbed by a society who doesn't recognize your brilliance.
 
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You have absolutely zero idea about the job market for undergrads from 2008 to now. I'm trying to explain to you what it is. You are applying a pre 2008 recession mindset, which is obsolete. I actually know many people that have graduated since 2008, the best and the brightest, and you ignore it. There is not much of a demand for any undergraduate right now: I know this much, much better than you do. Your argument is basically splitting hairs.

You are applying a pseudo academic and economic theory towards academia, which is the opposite of the purpose of undergrad and college. College was never meant to be a business or opetated according to market principles, which is just one of the reasons academia is failing right now and headed for a major crash. Kids majoring in the "correct" major isn't going to fix the college debt bubble or lack of regulation on spending.
I probably know well over 100 Kelley kids that graduated in the last two years. Every single one with a job, most before they even graduated.
 
I probably know well over 100 Kelley kids that graduated in the last two years. Every single one with a job, most before they even graduated.

He's a dumbass. Most Kelley kids have 2 or 3 job offers, and a lot have jobs locked down by the fall of their senior year.

Of course he doesn't think business school counts, as Ivys don't have undergrad business programs...whatever relevance that has to 99.8% of the country
 
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I went to Kelley and then to IU-Indy for law school. I hit the lottery with a perfect, high paying, legal job right after graduation. I have paid off all my student loans in 3 years and am set up to have a pretty good legal career if I keep things up. I should be the poster child for IU-Indy.

Even knowing what I know now about how things would end up for me I wouldn't go back and do law school again. And while I worked my ass of in undergrad and law school, I am lucky as hell to have stumbled ass backward into my current job. Law school is a terrible investment and I would not advise anyone to go unless you have a full ride or are going to a top-5 school.

I am going to try my hardest to steer my future kids into sciences and hard subjects. I do think getting a liberal arts degree is valuable so long as it is with a more job-ready degree.
 
I went to Kelley and then to IU-Indy for law school. I hit the lottery with a perfect, high paying, legal job right after graduation. I have paid off all my student loans in 3 years and am set up to have a pretty good legal career if I keep things up. I should be the poster child for IU-Indy.

Even knowing what I know now about how things would end up for me I wouldn't go back and do law school again. And while I worked my ass of in undergrad and law school, I am lucky as hell to have stumbled ass backward into my current job. Law school is a terrible investment and I would not advise anyone to go unless you have a full ride or are going to a top-5 school.

I am going to try my hardest to steer my future kids into sciences and hard subjects. I do think getting a liberal arts degree is valuable so long as it is with a more job-ready degree.

Is your job in any way related to your Kelley degree?

I seriously considered going to law school after I graduated from Kelley. But had a couple old lawyers dissuade me. Said to go work for a bit and think about it...and then go back if you really want to. The one guy told me he thought too many went to law school because they didn't want to go out into real world, and used it as a comfort choice, as academics was what you are used to.
 
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Is your job in any way related to your Kelley degree?

I majored in finance and I do primarily corporate and real estate work. The degree helps some, but it wasn't necessary. Having a finance degree from Kelley did get me several interviews at firms that were a stretch for what my grades were in law school. So that was nice.

I can't say enough good things about Kelley. Great school.
 
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I majored in finance and I do primarily corporate and real estate work. The degree helps some, but it wasn't necessary. Having a finance degree from Kelley did get me several interviews at firms that were a stretch for what my grades were in law school. So that was nice.

I can't say enough good things about Kelley. Great school.


I guess my question was, did you feel you got your job because you had the finance degree, vs someone with a BA degree?
 
Why are you such a giant asshole? Please GFY.


I'm sorry you are another in the long line of bitter, pissed off lawyers who feels robbed by a society who doesn't recognize your brilliance.

You can comprehend neither what I have learned nor what an attorney can actually earn. You can stick your superior BS straight up your ass.

I can't put into words how much I ****ing despise the undergrad business major. It is the same as joining a frat and a pseudo academic pursuit. It has helped ruin college and the job search process after college. It stands for the dumbing down of America and sucks the humanity out of life and the workplace.

Basically, I dont need to listen to somebody like yourself shit on an actual, noble academic pursuit. I can't explain how fulfilling it is to major in literature, poly sci, and minor in music: running the hell away from business and pursuing this course of study was the best personal decision I ever made and can't be measured in dollars. I got into the oldest honor society in the country in undergrad and fully realized my personal and academic potential. But , you actually get penalized now for reading Shakespeare and Plato and reasoning because you didn't perform the academic equivalent of joing a ****ing frat. It is absolute horse shit.
 
I guess my question was, did you feel you got your job because you had the finance degree, vs someone with a BA degree?

I'll answer that for you: you get hired first based on your law school grades and later on performance. Nobody gives a crap what you majored in in undergrad: totally irrelevant. Business is not considered a prelaw major, and any business law you encounter can be learned without a business major.
 
You can comprehend neither what I have learned nor what an attorney can actually earn. You can stick your superior BS straight up your ass.

I can't put into words how much I ****ing despise the undergrad business major. It is the same as joining a frat and a pseudo academic pursuit. It has helped ruin college and the job search process after college. It stands for the dumbing down of America and sucks the humanity out of life and the workplace.

Basically, I dont need to listen to somebody like yourself shit on an actual, noble academic pursuit. I can't explain how fulfilling it is to major in literature, poly sci, and minor in music: running the hell away from business and pursuing this course of study was the best personal decision I ever made and can't be measured in dollars. I got into the oldest honor society in the country in undergrad and fully realized my personal and academic potential. But , you actually get penalized now for reading Shakespeare and Plato and reasoning because you didn't perform the academic equivalent of joing a ****ing frat. It is absolute horse shit.

Life sucks. Boo hoo. Either wallow around in pity about what once was, or accept reality.

I love academia. If I could have stayed in college forever and read, studied, debated, wrote, etc....I would say sign me up.

But the God damn economic reality is we need to go out in the market and do shit. So piss off if you think there is anything wrong with learning real skills you can go apply in today's economy and get paid for.
 
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I'll answer that for you: you get hired first based on your law school grades and later on performance. Nobody gives a crap what you majored in in undergrad: totally irrelevant. Business is not considered a prelaw major, and any business law you encounter can be learned without a business major.

I'll ask the guy who did it, not your ignorant ass.

And your answer is flat wrong....just like everything you write.
 
Already got that covered and you could too:

2015-11-25-1448433091-9487641-BernieSanders3.png
 
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I guess my question was, did you feel you got your job because you had the finance degree, vs someone with a BA degree?

It definitely helped, but I don't think it was the determining factor. The firm hired a second associate in my year who has a BA & MA in Philosophy.

I think a liberal arts education is very important and wish Kelley encouraged its students to take advantage of their gen ed requirements to really push themselves and learn different academic skills. Many of my friends (and I did this too) took some blow-off gen ed classes to fulfill the requirements.
 
We plan to pay full cost of in state schools. Anything beyond that, will be on him (them)....unless our finances are such to cover even more at that point, but that's a long way off. We have 529, etc....grandparents like to contribute as well.

Our parents fully paid for both of our undergrads, I had grad school paid by employer.

I like Hanks idea of skin in the game too, though.

What we're paying for the GD nanny is basically like paying for full time college right now. Maybe more.

No pics of the hot nanny in a 2 piece? You should be ashamed of yourself
 
I went to Kelley and then to IU-Indy for law school. I hit the lottery with a perfect, high paying, legal job right after graduation. I have paid off all my student loans in 3 years and am set up to have a pretty good legal career if I keep things up. I should be the poster child for IU-Indy.

Even knowing what I know now about how things would end up for me I wouldn't go back and do law school again. And while I worked my ass of in undergrad and law school, I am lucky as hell to have stumbled ass backward into my current job. Law school is a terrible investment and I would not advise anyone to go unless you have a full ride or are going to a top-5 school.

I am going to try my hardest to steer my future kids into sciences and hard subjects. I do think getting a liberal arts degree is valuable so long as it is with a more job-ready degree.

Interesting to hear you say this. When I was a junior in high school my Dad asked me what I was going to do. I told him I would go to law school like him. He replied "no, you're not. You don't want to do that".

And that was that. Glad things worked out as well as they did for you, though.

Good thread.
 
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Oh, I'm sure it is like God Damn rocket science. All of the brilliant lawyers, doctors, authors, and scientists should just worship you. I guarantee you have made the world a much, much better place than the aforementioned. Shakespeare, Thomas Jefferson, and Einstein are pussies compared you. Bravo, you Atlas of society! How will the world ever turn when you are gone?

Do people actually like Shakespeare or do they feel like they have to like it ot look cultured. I can think of few prose I enjoyed less then Shakespeare.
 
You can comprehend neither what I have learned nor what an attorney can actually earn. You can stick your superior BS straight up your ass.

I can't put into words how much I ****ing despise the undergrad business major. It is the same as joining a frat and a pseudo academic pursuit. It has helped ruin college and the job search process after college. It stands for the dumbing down of America and sucks the humanity out of life and the workplace.

Basically, I dont need to listen to somebody like yourself shit on an actual, noble academic pursuit. I can't explain how fulfilling it is to major in literature, poly sci, and minor in music: running the hell away from business and pursuing this course of study was the best personal decision I ever made and can't be measured in dollars. I got into the oldest honor society in the country in undergrad and fully realized my personal and academic potential. But , you actually get penalized now for reading Shakespeare and Plato and reasoning because you didn't perform the academic equivalent of joing a ****ing frat. It is absolute horse shit.

Literature and art is for pu**ies.
 
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Something that's been rolling around in my mind lately. Are you guys saving for your kids to go to school or do you feel that is their own burden to carry?

What we've told our girls is that they can go to the best in state public school for whatever they want to pursue. The only way otherwise would be through academic or athletic scholarship.

On my part I put money away in 529's on a monthly basis to fund their education and if there is a shortfall it would be funded out of my pocket as long as certain academic expectations are met.

Just curious to hear others thoughts on this as I know people have kids aged from out of school to infants on here.

Paying for it. Overfunding a 529 for tax shelter purposes (Indiana actually has best setup in nation). Will transition to blended savings as they get closer to High School as they are 5 & 3.

They can go to a state school or Harvard, Stanford, MIT (or the equivalent) in 15 years. My kids won't be applying for an English or Creative Writing degree.

I too was concerned about not getting benefit of 529 if they get a scholarship/don't go to college. One option you could explore is rolling those dollars into an educational trust. I believe that can be done with very minimal/no tax considerations, but would need to be structured accordingly by a good tax attorney . That was you can pass along savings (and growth) to future generations.
 
Do people actually like Shakespeare or do they feel like they have to like it ot look cultured. I can think of few prose I enjoyed less then Shakespeare.

Shakespeare is definitely old English, and you have to look up some of the words to start out with and get used to the language. But, I have not come across another human being that has explained the purpose/meaning of life and the human condition better than Shakespeare. Life is a stage where every man must play a part.

Almost every one of his plays is sheer genius. There is a very good reason Shakespeare is considered the most influential person in history. It truly is an epic tragedy that students are being steered away from him.
 
Shakespeare is definitely old English, and you have to look up some of the words to start out with and get used to the language. But, I have not come across another human being that has explained the purpose/meaning of life and the human condition better than Shakespeare. Life is a stage where every man must play a part.

Almost every one of his plays is sheer genius. There is a very good reason Shakespeare is considered the most influential person in history.

I can deal with a stage performance on occasion, but I would rather read a dictionary.

I've never been overwhelmed by his stories. Never seen him called the most influential person in history. He may break the top 15-20 in some lists. I've seen him as high as 4 and not on lists at all. It's too subjective, I would lean towards people of science or politics. Billy writes about things people experience by being alive. He may capture it better then others, but it bores the shit out of me.
 
You literally dont have a clue. Does it cost way too much: oh yeah. However, as I stated before, it is still incredibly lucrative. You can make as much as you want to make. If you go to a shit school, your prospects aren't as good. Many of these types of law schools need to, and are, being shuttered

Then again, law school is very difficult and a real academic subject if there ever was one. Not exactly up 20's alley of dumb market U where kids get degrees for knowing less than I did about business after working fast food.

You really think there is a lack of demand for drugs? That is marvelous. Med school isn't exactly cheap, either.
One of my good friends in dental school was actually a Pharm-D and then went back to school for dentistry. He didn't have a problem with finding a job, but he found that he reached his peak in terms or salary after just a couple years and then he had the terrible hours on top of it.
 
I see all the references to law school debt. What is the average cost of law school at a state school like IU?
 
I see all the references to law school debt. What is the average cost of law school at a state school like IU?

Tuition at IU-Bloomington is $31,800 and IU-Indy is $26,500 (both in-state rates). There are some scholarship options, especially at IU-Indy, but most of my friends who didn't have their parents pay for school left law school with six-figures of debt, just for their legal education.
 
You can comprehend neither what I have learned nor what an attorney can actually earn. You can stick your superior BS straight up your ass.

I can't put into words how much I ****ing despise the undergrad business major. It is the same as joining a frat and a pseudo academic pursuit. It has helped ruin college and the job search process after college. It stands for the dumbing down of America and sucks the humanity out of life and the workplace.

Basically, I dont need to listen to somebody like yourself shit on an actual, noble academic pursuit. I can't explain how fulfilling it is to major in literature, poly sci, and minor in music: running the hell away from business and pursuing this course of study was the best personal decision I ever made and can't be measured in dollars. I got into the oldest honor society in the country in undergrad and fully realized my personal and academic potential. But , you actually get penalized now for reading Shakespeare and Plato and reasoning because you didn't perform the academic equivalent of joing a ****ing frat. It is absolute horse shit.

You're a ****ing idiot.
 
You're a ****ing idiot.

I'm actually sorry if I offended you. A family law attorney could make a career off of you.

If you got a pseudo undergrad degree in business, I am sorry you wasted your college academic experience on something you could learn by working fast food for a year in high school.

You get enough people to say the sky is green, it becomes green. It appears the same has occured for pretending like business is an academic pursuit. If the the economy becomes desperate enough and college costs way too much, people start to treat academia like an economic entity and trade school. WTF
 
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No one understands the law school scam better than me. Believe me, don't ever go unless it's to a top 10 school and you can come out with minimal debt. I went to a top 25 school and many of my classmates have found nothing 8 years out. One is a delivery boy for Domino's, another stocks shelves at JC Penney, etc. It's really that bad. Thank the libs who got rid of the free market in higher education and instituted unlimited student loans for all. Hence, the reason it costs 400-500% more to attend the same law school today than it did for the boomers. Yes, that's adjusted for inflation.
 
I'm actually sorry if I offended you. A family law attorney could make a career off of you.

If you got a pseudo undergrad degree in business, I am sorry you wasted your college academic experience on something you could learn by working fast food for a year in high school.

You get enough people to say the sky is green, it becomes green. It appears the same has occured for pretending like business is an academic pursuit. If the the economy becomes desperate enough and college costs way too much, people start to treat academia like an economic entity and trade school. WTF

I have a BS and an MBA from Kelley. But neither makes me awesome. I would be awesome no matter what.

But you will always be a ****, regardless of pedigree...
 
I'm actually sorry if I offended you. A family law attorney could make a career off of you.

If you got a pseudo undergrad degree in business, I am sorry you wasted your college academic experience on something you could learn by working fast food for a year in high school.

You get enough people to say the sky is green, it becomes green. It appears the same has occured for pretending like business is an academic pursuit. If the the economy becomes desperate enough and college costs way too much, people start to treat academia like an economic entity and trade school. WTF
Just curious. How many people do you actually think go to college for the academic pursuit? I would say less than 2% unless its a top end Ivy League school. The majority are looking for a way to gain a skill or set of skills so they can earn a better living than the person working fast food for a year in high school.

My college degree was not the field I am in today. I started at the bottom of my company and worked my way up. My brother on the other hand got a degree in CIS from IU and came out of school making twice what I made. Even now I have responsibility for over 300 people and has responsibility for himself in an IT unit and we make basically the same money.

Why wouldn't someone treat college like an economic entity or trade school? Unless they want to spend the money to get an advanced degree and most don't. Academia isn't academia anymore. Maybe it never was.
 
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Just for reference, I have a business degree but have worked in IT for the last 20 years doing things that didn't even exist when I was in school. I make decent money...but my wife majored in Fine Arts at the University of Evansville and today is a partner in her company and makes three times what I do. Go figure.
 
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U
Just curious. How many people do you actually think go to college for the academic pursuit? I would say less than 2% unless its a top end Ivy League school. The majority are looking for a way to gain a skill or set of skills so they can earn a better living than the person working fast food for a year in high school.

My college degree was not the field I am in today. I started at the bottom of my company and worked my way up. My brother on the other hand got a degree in CIS from IU and came out of school making twice what I made. Even now I have responsibility for over 300 people and has responsibility for himself in an IT unit and we make basically the same money.

Why wouldn't someone treat college like an economic entity or trade school? Unless they want to spend the money to get an advanced degree and most don't. Academia isn't academia anymore. Maybe it never was.

That is the point. Business is not an academic pursuit, and one doesn't need to go to college to do business. I'm sorry, but I am sick of reading this myth, and I am even sicker of defining academia by market principles and the desperation economy. You don't need a God Damn undergrad business degree for an entry level business job. I've seen way too many people without degrees or arts and sciences degrees do very well in business, and one can learn all they need about business working fast food in high school.

The purpose of college is to pursue academics: if you aren't doing so, get out. If colleges aren't operating with this as their purpose, time to shutter them: I have a feeling the debt bubble bursting will take care of this for them. I have no problem with professions that coincide with academics. But, professions that don't do so belong elsewhere: this includes business.
 
U


That is the point. Business is not an academic pursuit, and one doesn't need to go to college to do business. I'm sorry, but I am sick of reading this myth, and I am even sicker of defining academia by market principles and the desperation economy. You don't need a God Damn undergrad business degree for an entry level business job. I've seen way too many people without degrees or arts and sciences degrees do very well in business, and one can learn all they need about business working fast food in high school.

The purpose of college is to pursue academics: if you aren't doing so, get out. If colleges aren't operating with this as their purpose, time to shutter them: I have a feeling the debt bubble bursting will take care of this for them. I have no problem with professions that coincide with academics. But, professions that don't do so belong elsewhere: this includes business.


Why do companies hire accounting, finance, CIS majors with starting salaries at $65k, if they could just go down and hire a manager from McDs?

You clearly don't know shit about what is taught in business school, so you should just STFU.
 
No one understands the law school scam better than me. Believe me, don't ever go unless it's to a top 10 school and you can come out with minimal debt. I went to a top 25 school and many of my classmates have found nothing 8 years out. One is a delivery boy for Domino's, another stocks shelves at JC Penney, etc. It's really that bad. Thank the libs who got rid of the free market in higher education and instituted unlimited student loans for all. Hence, the reason it costs 400-500% more to attend the same law school today than it did for the boomers. Yes, that's adjusted for inflation.

When did you graduate? 2010? People need to be very realistic about the types of jobs available. I used to talk to a lot of prospective law students. I was always stunned at how none of them--none of them--had given thought to what they would do if they did not graduate with honors. "What do you mean? Why wouldn't I do really well in law school? I've always done really well." "Uh, so has everyone in your class. You do understand that not everyone can be in the top 30% or top 20% or top 10% right?"

I would prefer that my kids do not go into the law. But if they do want to, I'll be sure that they have very clearly defined goals. There are good jobs out there, and there are jobs for those who go to a school outside the top 10. But there are so many complete shit schools out there.
 
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