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College Funding...

I'd say that higher education costs way too much now and the debt bubble is not sustainable.

Mathematics and the pursuit of the truth/reasoning have always been the domain of the arts and sciences. If one is going to totally pursue one of the aforementioned, one studies the arts and sciences. Business simply makes a half assed Frankenstein out of arts and sciences subjects that already exist: what is the point of that?

Now, businesses hire the half assed students instead of the students that fully study and engage the subjects? Business has totally ****ed up academia, and all because academia has decided to be ruled by market principles. WTF
 
I'd say that higher education costs way too much now and the debt bubble is not sustainable.

Mathematics and the pursuit of the truth/reasoning have always been the domain of the arts and sciences. If one is going to totally pursue one of the aforementioned, one studies the arts and sciences. Business simply makes a half assed Frankenstein out of arts and sciences subjects that already exist: what is the point of that?

Now, businesses hire the half assed students instead of the students that fully study and engage the subjects? Business has totally ****ed up academia, and all because academia has decided to be ruled by market principles. WTF

Your premise is flawed because you assume many, if not all, student who study liberal arts are fully engaged and fully study. Everyone knows that just not the case. You are living in some intellectual fantasy world.
 
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I'd say that higher education costs way too much now and the debt bubble is not sustainable.

Mathematics and the pursuit of the truth/reasoning have always been the domain of the arts and sciences. If one is going to totally pursue one of the aforementioned, one studies the arts and sciences. Business simply makes a half assed Frankenstein out of arts and sciences subjects that already exist: what is the point of that?

Now, businesses hire the half assed students instead of the students that fully study and engage the subjects? Business has totally ****ed up academia, and all because academia has decided to be ruled by market principles. WTF

And half assed? Kelley students, from my unique perspective as I obtained degrees in both schools, worked a hell of a lot harder in college than COAS kids did.
 
Your premise is flawed because you assume many, if not all, student who study liberal arts are fully engaged and fully study. Everyone knows that just not the case. You are living in some intellectual fantasy world.

At the very least, they are studying the entire subject, in depth, in its original form, not some half assed Frankenstein subject.

You will find good and bad students everywhere, and I don't even know where to start on your subjective measurement.
 
The purpose of college should be to acquire skills and knowledge that are likely to lead to a good life.

It's nearly impossible to have a good life when you're up to your ass in nondischargeable student loan debt and no way to pay it off.
 
It's nearly impossible to have a good life when you're up to your ass in nondischargeable student loan debt and no way to pay it off.

I know this isn't a total answer, but have you tried income based repayment or bankruptcy? The first way, you pay what you can based on your income: it goes on for awhile, but you could end up paying pennies on the dollar.

Bankruptcy: I'm guessing you might have to do Ch. 13 payments first, but might be able to discharge the rest afterwards. They may also discharge part of your debt. I know the standard is tough, but it may be worth a shot.

I know what it is like to graduate in 2008: wouldn't wish it on anybody. The Government as a creditor is a mother.
 
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At the very least, they are studying the entire subject, in depth, in its original form, not some half assed Frankenstein subject.

You will find good and bad students everywhere, and I don't even know where to start on your subjective measurement.
Jimbo, what would you think of connecting the availability of loans to the likelihood of employment(thus, repayment likelihood) in a particular field rather than making loan money generally available? Personally, I feel that the generally availability of loans has been the result of colossal failure on the part of governmental agencies at all levels as well as academic institutions themselves. If you want to study something esoteric which has no application in the world of employment in the private sector, or public sector, or not for profit world, why should you be allowed to put a noose around your neck?
 
I know this isn't a total answer, but have you tried income based repayment or bankruptcy? The first way, you pay what you can based on your income: it goes on for awhile, but you could end up paying pennies on the dollar.

Bankruptcy: I'm guessing you might have to do Ch. 13 payments first, but might be able to discharge the rest afterwards. They may also discharge part of your debt. I know the standard is tough, but it may be worth a shot.

I know what it is like to graduate in 2008: wouldn't wish it on anybody. The Government as a creditor is a mother.

My god you didn't actually go to law school did you? If so you'd know that student loans aren't dischargeable unless you can meet the undue hardship standard which literally means you've had both arms and legs blown off. There's literally like 3 people nationally each year who are successful in bankruptcy out of the thousands who try. I'm actually doing fine myself I was referring to some classmates who have $250k in loans and can't get a job at Pizza Hut...literally.
 
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Jimbo, what would you think of connecting the availability of loans to the likelihood of employment(thus, repayment likelihood) in a particular field rather than making loan money generally available? Personally, I feel that the generally availability of loans has been the result of colossal failure on the part of governmental agencies at all levels as well as academic institutions themselves. If you want to study something esoteric which has no application in the world of employment in the private sector, or public sector, or not for profit world, why should you be allowed to put a noose around your neck?

There are no checks and balances on colleges: government has done nothing. There is gobs of student loan money available, and universities can't keep their hands out of the cookie jar. Costs continue to go up. However, there aren't enough jobs for graduates, and debt increases more and more. The debt level isn't sustainable: this is a classic bubble scenario. It isn't if the bubble bursts, but when.

I look at education like health care: it needs to be a public good. I know I've said it many times, but college was never meant to be ran like a business, whether it be overall purpose, student loans, subjects, etc., and that is what has happened. Fundamental changes need to be made. It didn't matter when you could pay for college through summer work. But, things have gotten out of control, and college just ends up screwing students under the free market.

I think people should study whatever helps a person best pursue the truth, understand themselves and the world around them, and is most enjoyable and fulfilling. You go to college to become a better, more enlightened you. The purpose of life (and, consequently, college) is not work, but happiness, the truth, and to reach your potential as a human being (especially your mind). Cost has nothing to do with it.
 
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My god you didn't actually go to law school did you? If so you'd know that student loans aren't dischargeable unless you can meet the undue hardship standard which literally means you've had both arms and legs blown off. There's literally like 3 people nationally each year who are successful in bankruptcy out of the thousands who try. I'm actually doing fine myself I was referring to some classmates who have $250k in loans and can't get a job at Pizza Hut...literally.
How in the world does anyone rack up $250K in loan debt? Does that include both undergrad and grad, and also accrued interest? No shot at them, but why are they not able to secure decent employment?
 
How in the world does anyone rack up $250K in loan debt? Does that include both undergrad and grad, and also accrued interest? No shot at them, but why are they not able to secure decent employment?
Ever listen to Dave Ramsey? Student loan debt of 100K+ is commonplace. A simple way to ratchet it back would be to cap the annual government guarantee at some reasonable number (10-15-20K?). Anything beyond that wouldn't be backed, and the lenders would be a bit more circumspect.
 
Ever listen to Dave Ramsey? Student loan debt of 100K+ is commonplace. A simple way to ratchet it back would be to cap the annual government guarantee at some reasonable number (10-15-20K?). Anything beyond that wouldn't be backed, and the lenders would be a bit more circumspect.
I have watched Uncle Dave for years and unqualifiedly support his overall approach, perhaps because much of it is what I did in my earlier career as a matter of common financial sense rather than as something I saw in the media, which didn't have much financial programming at that time.
 
I have watched Uncle Dave for years and unqualifiedly support his overall approach, perhaps because much of it is what I did in my earlier career as a matter of common financial sense rather than as something I saw in the media, which didn't have much financial programming at that time.
Same here. Dave preaches what my dad preached, lived, and taught me. Personally, I always have lived within my means, and since my income sucks that translates to being poor white trash.
 
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How in the world does anyone rack up $250K in loan debt? Does that include both undergrad and grad, and also accrued interest? No shot at them, but why are they not able to secure decent employment?

Typical law school tuition for a year is around $60k at a lot of schools. Add in living costs and an 8% interest rate on the loans and it's easy. It's truly a sad plight but no one wants to talk about it because it would expose everything wrong with the higher education system.

Law schools are truly the worst though. The Florida Coastal School of Law, for example, has admitted students with a 134 on their LSAT. The LSAT is a multiple choice exam and if one simply answered "A" on every question they would score about a 138 on the exam. Think about that for a minute. Yet that individual with the 134 is allowed to borrow $200k in non-dischargeable debt when the school knows they have zero chance of ever passing the bar or practicing law. It's truly a race to the bottom and they're taking advantage of the most vulnerable. Whites and Asians are fleeing from law school so they're putting butts in the seats by signing up massive amounts of minority students with mountains of debt and no way to ever pay it off. Believe me, the chickens will soon come home to roost and it's not going to be pretty.
 
Same here. Dave preaches what my dad preached, lived, and taught me. Personally, I always have lived within my means, and since my income sucks that translates to being poor white trash.
Mark, you are not poor white trash, just "living below my means."
 
Same here. Dave preaches what my dad preached, lived, and taught me. Personally, I always have lived within my means, and since my income sucks that translates to being poor white trash.

Mark, as long as you're working and generally making an effort you're doing just fine in my book.
 
Typical law school tuition for a year is around $60k at a lot of schools. Add in living costs and an 8% interest rate on the loans and it's easy. It's truly a sad plight but no one wants to talk about it because it would expose everything wrong with the higher education system.

Law schools are truly the worst though. The Florida Coastal School of Law, for example, has admitted students with a 134 on their LSAT. The LSAT is a multiple choice exam and if one simply answered "A" on every question they would score about a 138 on the exam. Think about that for a minute. Yet that individual with the 134 is allowed to borrow $200k in non-dischargeable debt when the school knows they have zero chance of ever passing the bar or practicing law. It's truly a race to the bottom and they're taking advantage of the most vulnerable. Whites and Asians are fleeing from law school so they're putting butts in the seats by signing up massive amounts of minority students with mountains of debt and no way to ever pay it off. Believe me, the chickens will soon come home to roost and it's not going to be pretty.
I thought this was basically old news at this point. Don't go to law school unless you're truly the chit.
 
I thought this was basically old news at this point. Don't go to law school unless you're truly the chit.

The problem is that all 21 year old liberal artists think they are truly the chit. Law schools are having no problem putting butts in the seats and the US taxpayers will be footing the bill while fatcat lib professors and administrators live large.
 
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Mark, as long as you're working and generally making an effort you're doing just fine in my book.
I'm not looking for sympathy. My income suckage is the result of 20 years of irresponsible living and horrendous choices on my part. I had every opportunity to be "successful" (define to your liking) and blew it. The one thing I'm grateful for is not being saddled with a lifetime of debt on top of everything else.
 
After seeing the title of this thread, I definitely didn't anticipate opening it and seeing a guy who majored in Poly Sci and English Lit telling other people to get real degrees....
Um, yeah.

I have a BA in Psychology, with minors in Biology and Sociology, a Masters in School Psychology, and a MBA. Which degree do you think I got the most value out of, both academically and financially?

Jimbo needs a Xanax.
 
Um, yeah.

I have a BA in Psychology, with minors in Biology and Sociology, a Masters in School Psychology, and a MBA. Which degree do you think I got the most value out of, both academically and financially?

Jimbo Is a pretentious prick.

Fixed it for you.
 
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