Cold blooded murder in LA
- Thread starter Hoopsdoc1978
- Start date
it's just a shame because so much is in need of reform; so much needs to be done; but the lion's share of the dialogue centers around an issue that's more likely than not a fiction
Correct, meant per capita. Killed more than whites even when threat levels are the same. Crappy crap
https://phys.org/news/2020-07-white-people-black-police.amp
The other side of that is blacks accounted for 53 percent of homicides and 60 percent of robberies yet accounted for 13 percent of pop. Given the black crime rate one would predict far more shootings than the stats show.
As hoopsdoc pointed out we’ve all been discussing this for months. I believe black communities desperately need help and our country, for myriad reasons, owes it to invest in these communities in ways we haven’t done in the past. Focusing on shootings when the stats don’t bear systemic racism loses the forest for the trees in issues plaguing the black community.
Sounds like the researchers took that into account. Black people are killed more often when the scenarios/ level of threat they pose is the same as white people. That removes the predicted bump you are suggesting.
"In those instances in which the victim appeared to pose a minimal-or-less threat to police, based on the data we had, Black people were three times as likely to be killed," Miller says. "That doesn't mean the police didn't feel threatened. But based on the reports that we were able to to look at, a very low level of threat was directed at the police. And in those specific cases, the numbers rose for Black people: They made up 36 percent of the deaths."
It’s a PR problem and a real problem. No, black people aren’t confused about what their biggest concern
Think of it this way, we can all agree black people were policed differently through most of US history? Well, at what point did the police supposedly pivot and start policing equally? There was very little true police reform during the early stages of the civil rights movement as we were still tackling lynch mobs (gulp).
Again, it’s a PR problem and a real problem.
You have to parse it out before you can declare something a real problem. as we've all hashed out ad nauseam earlier with inranger and others (so this is my last post on it because we have belabored the shit out of it) i don't agree that black killings are a product of racism or a problem any more than white killings. you have to think for yourself here. there were 1004 cop killings last year. only 235 black. despite blacks constituting only 13% of population and being between 50-60% responsible for homicides and robberies. in no way do these figures justify claims of systemic racism. there's literally zero support for that proposition. how do we define these incidents where cops f up. cops f up. there's over 800,000 of them. they have tens of millions of contacts per year. most have only a ged and a driver license. these aren't the brightest bulbs.
where i do believe racism and where "blacks are policed differently" occurs is profiling; traffic stops; regular harassing behavior of walking while black driving while black etc. i do believe blacks are policed differently and i do believe it's an issue; just not at the level that has given rise to the protests over floyd etc. that same shit at that level happens to whites - as the stats evidence. so again i totally agree there are issues; that blacks are targeted and profiled, but not not when it involves shootings, at least not in a concerted, systemic way
I agreed we’ve kicked this horse. Lol.
I’m just not getting how black people getting killed at a higher rate per capita during similar incidents than white people is not evidence of systemic and/or personal bias.
Taking a step back, this seriously f*cked up feedback loop we’ve created with race in this country. Or just humans in general. Create the stereotype, the system then makes the stereotype a real thing, bias then confirms and perpetuates the stereotypes.
And I’ve jumped off the soapbox for the weekend. Lol. Good discourse though.
Sorry, but any research that relies on “appearance” in this context is horseshit.
They tried to assign in hindsight how much of a threat each subject APPEARED to pose to whoever shot them. That seems incredibly difficult and extremely subjective to me.
"In those instances in which the victim appeared to pose a minimal-or-less threat to police, based on the data we had, Black people were three times as likely to be killed," Miller says. "That doesn't mean the police didn't feel threatened. But based on the reports that we were able to to look at, a very low level of threat was directed at the police. And in those specific cases, the numbers rose for Black people: They made up 36 percent of the deaths."
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Don't get hung up on language. What matters here is how they identified those instances. For example, did they identify low-threat encounters without knowing the races involved or the outcome of those encounters?
What matters goat is that it’s 235 out of 1004 out of tens of millions of contacts. those figures are clear. the rest is just trying to manipulate data. regardless, all of this is a distraction from what ought be discussed because it’s sensational and newsworthy. The real issues. The real work is harder and harder to galvanize support around. And that’s why once again the can will get kicked.
It’s going to be bad when some of these cops in these cases get off, and they will. People have their hopes up like these events are a flash point. Ugh. I think the country is listening like never before and we’re talking about the wrong topic.
i wonder how many people around the country, or even the world, are aware of these stats. 235. now let's assume maybe 5% were shot under questionable circumstances. about 12. so we're talking about an entire Black lives matter movement and all of the shootings and all of the destruction that has attended protests over what is maybe a dozen persons. no one should die under questionable circumstances. but i promise you more whites than 12 of the 1004 have died under questionable circumstances. these figures don't connote systemic racism.
a movement is needed. a movement to help the tens of millions of black families in need; but excessive police force and shootings isn't it imo. as they say, stats don't lie
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I don’t buy it. Seems unlikely that you could learn enough about each incident to determine the threat level without also learning the races of the participants.
Also, the outcome of these incidents is why they were chosen to be looked at, IE unarmed people shot by police.
My understanding is that particular study looked at all encounters, regardless of outcome, but I could be wrong.
Point is, finding fault with their use of the word "appears" is a lazy criticism. Look at the actual methodology and see if anything is wrong.
Isn't the point/problem that race can raise the perceived threat level?
This is exactly what some (intentionally) continue to miss. Probably no better illustration than this video Rick originally posted on the "Wisconsin" thread and which the people who should be speaking to it virtually ignored...
Let's set the stage. Neighbors call the police because they hear cries for help coming from a man's backyard. Now consider for a moment if the word "Black man" had been inserted into the concerned citizen's calls...
Think of all the times Black motorists have been stopped for horrible crimes such as "driving with a busted taillight" or "illegally changing lanes" and ended up dead. Remember the 3 teenagers in LA County who were being attacked by a crazy homeless person, multiple people called and notified the police the kids were being attacked and yet ONE caller mistook the situation and claimed the kids were the ones committing the "criminal act"?
Yet when the cops arrived they immediately ASSUMED the kids were at fault, and even ignored ALL of the witnesses at the scene who tried to tell them the kids were the victims? Remember the Black guy shot in his own apartment, or all of the Karen calls involving Black people (some on their own property) which immediately resulted in cops arriving and ASSUMING the Black person was the criminal...
So imagine how this video plays out if the guy is Black. He makes some comment about going to get the "screamer" and the cops proceed to allow him to walk behind a fence, totally out of sight and none of them even draws a weapon. Yeah, tell us it goes down that way, and that cops don't (consciously or subconsciously) attach heightened danger to a situation if the "suspect" is Black...
I mean a guy like Blake is tased and shot 7 times because he walks around to open a car door after cops were called over an uninvited guest showing up at a party. But cops are called to this guy's house because people report hearing CRIES for help from his back yard.
The cops saunter up to his driveway, and then allow him to walk behind the same fence which hides their vision of what is actually in his backyard? And none of these cops who have no idea what he's hiding back there even come close to drawing a weapon? Much less shooting him 7 times?
Yeah, no doubt it would have gone down like that if the guy was Black...
My issue IS with their methodology. I’m not sure how that wasn’t clear.
The instances which I highlighted, and which THEY highlighted in the report, were those which, IN THEIR WORDS, the victim “appeared” to show minimal threat to the people who shot them. That claim was made on the basis of the reports that they read. They even added the caveat that that didn’t mean the police didn’t feel threatened.
I don’t see how you can make any claim based on evidence that flimsy.
That's not methodology. You're criticizing them because of the words they used. You're not even trying to look at the actual methodology.
Not really. You don't know if their research supports their claims. You could just say, "I don't buy it, no matter what." That would be more accurate.
I don't know why you people insist on challenging my pedantry skills.
I'm worse off for having watched that video.
No, but can blame China for them.So, anyone driving around with a MAGA sticker needs to take responsibility for the more than 193,000 Covid deaths?
Oh, and I'm sure CS2 will be on here momentarily to label you a hypocrite.
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